EA on suicide watch: Lootboxes will lead to an age rating of 18 in Germany

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Ze Germans are at it again.

Zauce: https://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/net...uetzen-a-5dd1781c-c458-4165-a571-b0dcbe72ba3a

The government wants to ensure that children do not come into contact with incentives to buy in video games with a reform of the Youth Protection Act. The Bundestag passed the amendment on Friday. The Family Ministry had initiated the reform of the almost 20-year-old law.
According to attorney Julia Maris, the law will affect age restrictions. "Online games or other applications that use lootboxes or similar in-game offerings would likely be classified with an age rating of 18 or older," Maris tells SPIEGEL.
The reform would therefore also affect games that were previously classified as harmless, such as "Fifa 21". The soccer simulation is currently approved by the Entertainment Software Self-Regulation Body without age restriction. But since the collectible mode "Ultimate Team" offers card sets for purchase by default, that could change. In order for video games to get an age rating for children, lootboxes would have to be disabled by default.

sHWZcHf.png


Also very nice.
 
I cannot believe fucking Nazi's are the ones putting their foot down first.

We're fucked beyond belief
Obviously there are predatory practices that need to be dealt with and I'm all for tighter ratings on this. For example, NBA 2k and the casino angle not being rated as gambling is a complete joke.

But in regards to microtransaction purchases and children, at what point are parents' responsible for their own credit card numbers?
 
Obviously there are predatory practices that need to be dealt with and I'm all for tighter ratings on this. For example, NBA 2k and the casino angle not being rated as gambling is a complete joke.

But in regards to microtransaction purchases and children, at what point are parents' responsible for their own credit card numbers?
Well yeah, rating of 18 doesn't stop whales.

2e1b549e56435e482e2d03b7996f4c78.jpg
 
Obviously there are predatory practices that need to be dealt with and I'm all for tighter ratings on this. For example, NBA 2k and the casino angle not being rated as gambling is a complete joke.

But in regards to microtransaction purchases and children, at what point are parents' responsible for their own credit card numbers?
I don't know how age restrictions work in Germany. In the US I believe it is up to retailers to decide if they restrict sales for M games to adults or not. But in either scenario (restricting by law or practice), wouldn't this do exactly that? By exactly that, I mean make parents more responsible for their credit card numbers? They would, after all, make them have to buy the game for the minor children before the kids used the cc on a loot box in it.

Anyway, I feel like I am a pretty staunch proponent for freedom of speech, etc. And this seems to be a balanced compromise to me for loot boxes. The dev / pub can still include them all they want, but parents will be given a major warning which I think is reasonable. Especially in sports games where they have mastered the art of getting people to chase cards they will never get with real money. Frankly, I'd even be ok banning random loot boxes altogether and make them follow the Fortnite StW model of actually showing the pack contents before purchase. We do regulate gambling after all.
 
I don't know how age restrictions work in Germany.

If it's an 18+ game, you need to prove your age when you buy it. Retailers will be fined and punished if they sell it to younger people. They are also being undercover tested from time to time. Same with online retail. On Amazon for example, you need to show you ID upon delivery.
 
If it's an 18+ game, you need to prove your age when you buy it. Retailers will be fined and punished if they sell it to younger people. They are also being undercover tested from time to time. Same with online retail. On Amazon for example, you need to show you ID upon delivery.
This should definitely make parents pay better attention then. And I say cheers to every penny EA loses from its ultimate modes. I don't have any skin in the FIFA game, but I would love to see the Madden Ultimate Team mode crushed to the point of EA not wanting to pay for the exclusive NFL license any more.
 
This should definitely make parents pay better attention then. And I say cheers to every penny EA loses from its ultimate modes. I don't have any skin in the FIFA game, but I would love to see the Madden Ultimate Team mode crushed to the point of EA not wanting to pay for the exclusive NFL license any more.

But I think digital sales are more of an issue und way more difficult to control. Hopefully there'll be big red warning signs upon purchase.
 
Suicide watch?

There's still, ya know, the remaining 75% of the human population that is older than 18. And while kids no doubt contribute to lootbox sales, the lion's share are 18-36 year olds. EA may also lose sales on the game purchase itself, but as we all know most game revenue now comes from in-game purchases (which also, by the way, are not all lootbox-based; see fortnite)
 
Obviously there are predatory practices that need to be dealt with and I'm all for tighter ratings on this. For example, NBA 2k and the casino angle not being rated as gambling is a complete joke.

But in regards to microtransaction purchases and children, at what point are parents' responsible for their own credit card numbers?

Oh I agree wholeheartedly, but parents ain't doing a good job it seems (as a whole)

I really just feel the whole world needs to get on this. Even for parents who *somewhat* pay attention, they shouldn't have to worry about their kid even being subjected to the possibility of gambling their money on a damn star wars game
 
Suicide watch?

There's still, ya know, the remaining 75% of the human population that is older than 18. And while kids no doubt contribute to lootbox sales, the lion's share are 18-36 year olds. EA may also lose sales on the game purchase itself, but as we all know most game revenue now comes from in-game purchases (which also, by the way, are not all lootbox-based; see fortnite)
The thing is that EA now has to deal with the fact that the game will be rated 18+ if they want to have the lootboxes in them.
They want to avoid such ratings whenever possible.

Sure its not a major step, but every little stick and stone in the path of greedy croporations is a small obstacle that serves to make their shady tactics a little harder.
 
Last edited:
Suicide watch?

There's still, ya know, the remaining 75% of the human population that is older than 18. And while kids no doubt contribute to lootbox sales, the lion's share are 18-36 year olds. EA may also lose sales on the game purchase itself, but as we all know most game revenue now comes from in-game purchases (which also, by the way, are not all lootbox-based; see fortnite)
Things is that Germany influence who EU by quite a lot, so I would not be surprised if that would become EU law.
 
I think EA can move FUT from the game itself to a separate, free DLC.

So the game itself would get the same age rating it has now, and the DLC would be 18+. And since nobody gives a fuck about DLC age rating, this move wouldn't change anything for them.

Digital games and DLC is important for them:

image.png


Well chances are that this will become rule for EU.
Even if it isn't the case, Germany is the top 1 European gaming market, and not sure if top 2 or top 3 worldwide console market.
 
Last edited:
I'm fine with this. Let parent's decide.

More than EA I'm curious how this would affect mobile games, where like 99% of them are supported through microtransactions, with a lot of them being some sort of loot box.
Will they have some system to accurately age check users? Or will there be some porn site tier "I'm totally 18" message where you just click ok?
 
Last edited:
I think EA can move FUT from the game itself to a separate, free DLC.

So the game itself would get the same age rating it has now, and the DLC would be 18+. And since nobody gives a fuck about DLC age rating, this move wouldn't change anything for them.

Digital games and DLC is important for them:

image.png



Even if it isn't the case, Germany is the top 1 European gaming market, and not sure if top 2 or top 3 worldwide console market.
I doubt regulators or lawmakers that set these rules would look too kindly on a "free" dlc available at launch that adds in a feature that they are actively trying to regulate. While I don't have any ideas about the specific laws in question. I'd imagine there is something that can be done about companies that purposely circumvent the laws.
 
Things is that Germany influence who EU by quite a lot, so I would not be surprised if that would become EU law.
This will (unfortunately) not become an EU law since the European Commission has no say in a matter such as this. But a good move nevertheless, EA can get fucked.
 
I'm fine with this. Let parent's decide.

More than EA I'm curious how this would affect mobile games, where like 99% of them are supported through microtransactions, with a lot of them being some sort of loot box.
Will they have some system to accurately age check users? Or will there be some porn site tier "I'm totally 18" message where you just click ok?

you actually expect parents to be parents? hahahaha

companies have gave parents the tools to stop their kids spending money but nah the parents aren't interested. when lil timmy spends 10,000 on lootboxes all they wanna do is go on the news and blame ea, epic, apple, google, etc.
 
you actually expect parents to be parents? hahahaha

companies have gave parents the tools to stop their kids spending money but nah the parents aren't interested. when lil timmy spends 10,000 on lootboxes all they wanna do is go on the news and blame ea, epic, apple, google, etc.
Companies will always do the minimum they are obliged to under law so let's not blame it on the parents. Everything about lootboxes, down to the color and the shine of a box being opened has been carefully designed to create adrenaline rush and feeling-good surge to make people spend more. Yes, ultimately little TImmy is to blame, but he never had a chance - tens of adults much smarter than him worked sometimes for months to make sure he is enticed to click on the Buy botton. And for that the whole industry can crash and burn for all I care.
 
Loot boxed EA games VS Government imposed market regulation

The alien vs predator that we need
 
I say good, there shouldn't be this nickel and diming in games. Especially when it comes down to loot boxes, which essentially is gambling for kids.
 
I can tell you one thing, FIFA will never carry the 18+ label. They will find a way around it.

I remember back in the day when the USK got a bit too worried about the fact that the cars in Burnout 3 had drivers in them. So they gave it an USK 16 rating. unfortunately the discs were already partly in print, so EA had to print the USK 16 logo on the top of the DVD's. But they patched the German version last minute and took out the driver avatars. So the box said USK12 while some of the early disks in those boxes still said USK 16.

The card packs in FIFA are gambling and this well known for years now. The reason they got away, were small loopholes within the wording of the original laws (which were not written for virtual goods to be gambled with, e.g. virtual currencies with now real life value). The industry knows very well that they are selling gambling to children and those easily exploitable by gambling mechanics without any supervision. Gambling laws are not here to abolish gambling, they are here to protect those who are either too young or have behavioral disabilities that increase they susceptibility towards impulsive spending. Gaming companies have avoided these systems for long enough and this is only consequent. The gaming industry was incapable of regulating itself, because some companies were too greedy too give up on some revenue and now they pay the price (hopefully).

Yes the state shouldn't have too much impact on what's in a game and what's not, but this is not censorship, its just putting already existing and accepted gambling laws into those games that deserve it.

Btw. its funny how NeoGaf blasts me with "VIDEO SLOTS" advertisement banners this whole time.
 
Last edited:
Since there's no chance EA will be responsible with their "surprise mechanics", this is the only solution left - government regulation. I hope it helps to protect kids and inform people better about loot boxes.
 
I doubt regulators or lawmakers that set these rules would look too kindly on a "free" dlc available at launch that adds in a feature that they are actively trying to regulate. While I don't have any ideas about the specific laws in question. I'd imagine there is something that can be done about companies that purposely circumvent the laws.
As I remember for at least ESRB (Europe outside Germany) DLCs have different age rating than the games, and there were cases were the DLC had a different rating than the main game.

ESRB is also an optional system (mandatory to publish on console) more like a suggestion, guide for mostly parents made by the gaming industry as self regulation. Not sure about how the German censorship/age rating system works as it seems to be something made by their government.

The industry knows very well that they are selling gambling to children and those easily exploitable by gambling mechanics without any supervision. Gambling laws are not here to abolish gambling, they are here to protect those who are either too young or have behavioral disabilities that increase they susceptibility towards impulsive spending.
I did work on F2P mobile and browser games and our company considered to include a feature where you were going to be able to earn real money.

The difference between gamling or not gambling was there, to earn money or not from a game where you paid real money. If the player can earn real money then the game falls under the gambling regulation and there are many strict regulations, government control and stuff there. So our company decided to avoid all this by not allowing people to earn money, in order to avoid to make any possible harm and to avoid a huge amount of paperwork required.

We researched about it a lot and according to the science, multiples studies regarding gambling and addiction and so on there's a big difference if you 'bet' real money or not. No serious study (including the ones they did use to decide the German change) was able to find a link lootboxes / gatcha mechanics to adiction or gambling related issues.

I did work there for many years, and had friends in other top mobile gaming companies who also took this very seriously, researched about it and found the same results: lootboxes / gatcha mechanics aren't gambling and doesn't have the issues that gambling/real money betting has, it only slightly increases the average amount of money people spends on games, or the time they spend playing it.

We -and myself personally, it was one of my tasks- contacted the players who spent a ton of money on our games, kept a personal contact with them and tracked their payments. A tiny percent of the people who spent money on our games, who at the same time were a tiny part of the total of players. And none of them became an addict or ruined their life, they mostly were rich bored people or normal players who spend a normal budget on gaming but happened to play a single game during hundreds/thousands of hours across several years, so spent all that budget for gaming there.

Other friends who did the same at other companies had a few cases of kids spending money from their parent's credit cards and solved the issue. And I'm talking about games that ranged from several dozens of millions of players to several hundreds of millions of players.

So no, both according to the studies from science and watching real world results with samples of hundreds of millions of players I can tell you that lootboxes / gatcha mechanics aren't gambling and don't cause the same issues that gambling causes.
 
Last edited:
But in regards to microtransaction purchases and children, at what point are parents' responsible for their own credit card numbers?
I get what you mean, and I agree that parents should act as proper parents and teach their children the risks of gambling, but this would not stop the temptations.

Lootboxes and microtransaftions are usually made as flashy and satisfying as possible to tempt the player.

It's really a scummy feature to add in games, especially if the game is targeting at younger audience. It's gambling.
 
This is disgusting, how will they manage to addict children to gambling with laws like this? Absolutely reprehensible behavior from the German government, I hope EA thinks of something to counter-act this bullshit, like cocaine packaged inside the physical copies or something.
 
As I remember for at least ESRB (Europe outside Germany) DLCs have different age rating than the games, and there were cases were the DLC had a different rating than the main game.

ESRB is also an optional system (mandatory to publish on console) more like a suggestion, guide for mostly parents made by the gaming industry as self regulation. Not sure about how the German censorship/age rating system works as it seems to be something made by their government.
While ESRB is mostly a political lobbying group, my understanding is that the USK (German game rating group) and PEGI (most of the rest of Europe) generally are legally enforced with liabilities for stores that choose to sell games to minors with certain ratings. I know Germany tends to be stricter than the other two having outright banned games with images of Nazis and other things at times in the past.

EA could find themselves in hot water if they try to skirt around age ratings with updates or "free" dlc they they encourage everyone to get. My bet is that they'll just disable purchases of this stuff in Germany and hope people complain to the legal groups enough to change the policies.
 
This is stupid. Lootboxes are not gambling. It's the digital version of baseball cards. There have been multiple lawsuits against cardmakers alleging that those cards are gambling and they have been ruled not gambling every time.

Furthermore, I seriously doubt EA or any other company want to get kids paying for lootboxes because legally kids cant enter into contracts and if they get sued they have to give the money back. That's why whenever you hear these stories about some kid spending 10k on mtx the company always gives it back.
 
Top Bottom