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[BenjaminBirdie]

"Did Jack Reacher not bring home the hardware?"

Please tell me hardware is Oscars

(I'm listening to the Scharpling HH, FINALLY)

EDIT: Yup, confirmed. Now they're on Hilarys Swank and Clinton WOW

 

[Bread]

What are you talking about? If you don't want anything to change, ignore it. I really don't understand any anger over this. It's $5 a month.
EDIT: Oh, didn't realize they stopped the archive after 6 month.

yeah it's a pretty huge change.

tell your friends about HH and they want to start at the beginning? they'll have to pay to access those episodes. really really stupid stuff.

 

[Fantastical]

yeah it's a pretty huge change.

tell your friends about HH and they want to start at the beginning? they'll have to pay to access those episodes. really really stupid stuff.

Has that been confirmed?

 

[neshcom]

Maybe the 6 month archive limitation is only on the Howl app? Just now, I can get the back catalogue of Hollywood Handbook via RSS. I think it's really bunk to kill 6+ month episodes for free listeners and losing Hollywood Handbooks ad-reads would be a huge misstep. Scott's explanation that there are too many old episodes for new listeners just rings so hollow.

 

[helloresolven]

yeah it's a pretty huge change.

tell your friends about HH and they want to start at the beginning? they'll have to pay to access those episodes. really really stupid stuff.

Actually they get a free week's trial and they can start from the beginning and see how they like it.

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

they haven't removed the ads yet


YES

the only episodes available to non-paying users will be from the past 6 months

Is that true for all listening options (iTunes, Earwolf site, etc.) or just the app, though?

 

[Bread]

Maybe the 6 month archive limitation is only on the Howl app? Just now, I can get the back catalogue of Hollywood Handbook via RSS. I think it's really bunk to kill 6+ month episodes for free listeners and losing Hollywood Handbooks ad-reads would be a huge misstep. Scott's explanation that there are too many old episodes for new listeners just rings so hollow.

nope, all old eps past 6 months will be archived except for choice ones like CBB best ofs and others yet to be determined. download your old episodes now while they're still available.

Has that been confirmed?

yes

 

[Adam Scott Aukerman]

The 6 months limit will really hit the annual best of voting / relistening.

I'm all for supporting earwolf, but yet another subscription in just something I don't need in my life, especially for something that I'm not going to make even weekly use of.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

Maybe the 6 month archive limitation is only on the Howl app? Just now, I can get the back catalogue of Hollywood Handbook via RSS. I think it's really bunk to kill 6+ month episodes for free listeners and losing Hollywood Handbooks ad-reads would be a huge misstep. Scott's explanation that there are too many old episodes for new listeners just rings so hollow.

Seriously. As soon as he said that I knew where it was going.

 

[Bread]

Actually they get a free week's trial and they can start from the beginning and see how they like it.

and now you're asking new listeners to subscribe to something they might not like, this isn't user friendly. it's a huge downgrade for casual listeners.

Is that true for all listening options (iTunes, Earwolf site, etc.) or just the app, though?

there won't be other listening options for old episodes once the changeover is complete.

 

[tim.mbp]

So is the app anything special? I'm on Android so can't really tell, but it just seems like a standard podcast app with some sort of twitter integration.

 

[Salsa]

where has it been confirmed that anything previous to 6 months ago will be deleted from the feeds ie Pocket Casts?

seen no confirmation of that. figured it was just on Howl since they already dont pop up there

 

[helloresolven]

and now you're asking new listeners to subscribe to something they might not like, this isn't user friendly. it's a huge downgrade for casual listeners.


there won't be other listening options for old episodes once the changeover is complete.

Casual listeners will just start with the latest episodes...

 

[Bread]

where has it been confirmed that anything previous to 6 months ago will be deleted from the feeds ie Pocket Casts?

seen no confirmation of that. figured it was just on Howl since they already dont pop up there

http://forum.earwolf.com/topic/25100-questions-for-scott-re-howl/page__view__findpost__p__164823

 

[Salsa]

well, its crappy, and the public reason seems hollow, but I do get it from a business standpoint

it's hard to stay mad when ive had so many hours of entertainment for years and the only money I paid was ocassionally for live eps

dunno. if I really wanna re-listen to old stuff i'd just pay for one month or something.

it does bum me out since I go back to classics pretty often and atm I wont be able to subscribe to howl consistently, but I understand how it works for them

that said I dont think i'll be ever subscribing to this if it's stream-only in app. They're saying its just a streaming service and you cant download episodes, but thats said by Scott who isnt really tech savvy

I gather they'd let you download the eps in-app, like Spotify with songs. I dont have unlimited data to stream succesfully on my celphone while outside



we should make a best of list of older stuff we can all download now

 

[Bread]

Casual listeners will just start with the latest episodes...

well no shit, that's because they are forced to do that now. i'm not sure why anyone would support this change. if you wanted to support your favorite podcasters, donate. if you wanted to listen to the ads because you know they pay the bills, you could do that.

 

[Salsa]

well no shit, that's because they are forced to do that now. i'm not sure why anyone would support this change. if you wanted to support your favorite podcasters, donate. if you wanted to listen to the ads because you know they pay the bills, you could do that.

how do you know this old model was sustaining them fine?

Earwolf got huge, and its only getting bigger

im not disagreeing with you, but I very much doubt they'd take this decision if it wasnt something they needed to do in order to keep growing

only thing I dont like about this is the archive pulling yes, but I really doubt it was an easy decision meant to just pull out of the pockets of die hard fans like many are taking it to be.

I like and understand the mini show thing and I actually like it. If a show doesnt have a huge audience it wont get ads and it wont sustain itself. What I like about this is the potential of that format and its nice that they're putting it out with this much new content already.

I would have liked a bigger warning on the archive tho. Like set a date and let people download what they want before it rather than just starting pulling eps today (allegedly)

basically; I dont like that aspect, but im not too mad either given the new stuff

they better make howl 2.0 on android good tho. and they should have kept the launch till they had all apps out tbh

 

[Bread]

how do you know this old model was sustaining them fine?

well they haven't once mentioned that the old model was unsustainable, and if they were making a big change like this i'm sure that would be the first reason they would give.

they were bought by a big company and now they want money for old episodes. seems like money grubbing to me.

 

[Salsa]

well they haven't once mentioned that the old model was unsustainable, and if they were making a big change like this i'm sure that would be the first reason they would give.

they were bought by a big company and now they want money for old episodes. seems like money grubbing to me.

they do say they could pay certain people to make these new shows and all

idk, it never seemed like a huge business to me for the people involved other than Scott and a couple others

I do think being more straight forward and saying "look guys this is better for us money-wise and allows us to do better stuff" (which they KINDA did) would have been better than some of the other "reasons", but I take that to be implied

the amount of content they put out is kinda insane man, and there's no way those few ads are paying all these people buco dolores, and they deserve it

 

[bearythebear]

Kinda sucks about taking away the archive. When I started listening to CBB, I would constantly go back to listen to episodes features guys I liked. Stuff like Marissa Wompler and Gilly/Gary Marshall stories are more than 6 months old.

Maybe they can feature and curate these "storylines" in the Howl app as occasionally free listens for new guys? I guess that's what the free trial is for, but I do hope they make the archive less impenetrable.

I would love a Giant Bomb type model. Pay $50 bucks a year, and get a free shirt or Earwolf store credits. These guys have given me hours of entertainment, so I don't mind subscribing when it's available for Android.

 

[Fantastical]

The fact that they didn't get rid of the archives immediately gives me hope. I seriously don't understand the reasoning behind getting rid of the archives. Everything else sounds great. I will happily pay Earwolf $5 a month for eternity.

 

[neshcom]

Maybe they can feature and curate these "storylines" in the Howl app as occasionally free listens for new guys? I guess that's what the free trial is for, but I do hope they make the archive less impenetrable.

Oh now that would be a real value-add. The new mini series and one-offs are okay, but that's still an unknown variable. Collecting certain stories or beefing up their system to find specific characters would be an awesome feature.

 

[Maklershed]

So wait - does this effect all shows? Even HDTGM?

 

[Salsa]

The fact that they didn't get rid of the archives immediately gives me hope. I seriously don't understand the reasoning behind getting rid of the archives. Everything else sounds great. I will happily pay Earwolf $5 a month for eternity.

 

[Fantastical]

Ughhhh. It would have been so easy to say "Nothing is changing, but Howl gives you more!" Probably going to torrent all the archives.

 

[Salsa]

Ughhhh. It would have been so easy to say "Nothing is changing, but Howl gives you more!" Probably going to torrent all the archives.

I mean someone's gonna do it and it'll be up somewhere for sure

 

[BertramCooper]

This is super shitty.

 

[Bacon]

The more I read about this service the more it seems like a pretty big misstep. They probably should have gone the giantbomb route of adding value on top of their free service instead of taking value away.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Holy shit, Hollywood Handbook is fucking amazing.

 

[Robaperas]

So, is this happening because of the E.W. Scripps thing? or is it an Earwolf/Midroll decision?

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

The fact that they didn't get rid of the archives immediately gives me hope. I seriously don't understand the reasoning behind getting rid of the archives. Everything else sounds great. I will happily pay Earwolf $5 a month for eternity.

They're not getting rid of them. You just have to pay to access them, much like reams of other content in the world, be it TV or comics or music or anything.

I mean be honest, what kept you coming back to these podcasts in the first place? Because it was free and you'd listen to anything that was free? Or because it was more hilarious than any other entertainment option you had?

It really bums me out to see people turn on content makers, call them money grubbers (not you in this instance, that other dude), for making people pay for their work. Donations are fine, but not mandatory, so unless you're Radiohead or Brian K Vaughan, that's not a viable source of income. Advertising? How much is Squarespace throwing down, do you think? It can't be that much.

Why is it so terrible that podcasts are adopting a model that basic TV has had for decades? Watch the most recent season, pay for the earlier ones. And compared to that, the value here is ridiculous.

Just because you got used to having it for free, doesn't mean it was worth nothing, but if you think you're owed eternal access to something that someone created, for no compensation, I can't see how that's not just the same as thinking it's worthless.

But I could be convinced by someone's argument, if it's out there.

 

[BertramCooper]

So, is this happening because of the E.W. Scripps thing? or is it an Earwolf/Midroll decision?

This had to have been in the works before the Scripps stuff was finalized.

It might have been done in anticipation of the Scripps buyout, but I don't think it was initiated by Scripps.

 

[Robaperas]

This had to have been in the works before the Scripps stuff was finalized.

It might have been done in anticipation of the Scripps buyout, but I don't think it was initiated by Scripps.

Yeah, I thought so. I wouldn't mind paying 5 bucks a month for ad free podcasts + helping earwolf, but I guess I need a credit card so I'm beyond f@cked.

 

[Salaadin]

Well, I always want to donate to a show b ut I think Ill just sub to this instead as long as they get a proper phone app. Hopefully thats in the works.

 

[BertramCooper]

Just because you got used to having it for free, doesn't mean it was worth nothing, but if you think you're owed eternal access to something that someone created, for no compensation, I can't see how that's not just the same as thinking it's worthless.

Come the fuck on. Nobody is saying that Earwolf's content is "worth nothing" or that nobody should be compensated for it.

Because podcasts are an audio medium, I view this as more comparable with Spotify or Pandora than Netflix. And services like Spotify offer both paid and ad-supported options to their listeners. Part of the beauty of Earwolf is that it has been so remarkably easy to explore podcasts' backlogs and really get to understand a show's history. Sticking nearly all of the archives behind a paywall makes it harder for new listeners to delve into a long-running podcast. I might never have become a fan of CBB if this had been the setup three years ago.

Plus, they're launching with no Android app. Even once they do get an Android app, I'll now be required to use their own app in order to listen to the archives, which is pretty much guaranteed to be far inferior to the current podcast app I use to listen to Earwolf programs.

 

[Bacon]

I would have never became a fan of Hollywood handbook without starting from the beginning. Trying to navigate the various in jokes and specific style of comedy just wouldn't work for someone jumping into the latest episode.

 

[Salaadin]

Plus, they're launching with no Android app. Even once they do get an Android app, I'll now be required to use their own app in order to listen to the archives, which is pretty much guaranteed to be far inferior to the current podcast app I use to listen to Earwolf programs.

This is actually an important point, imo.

I currently use beyondpod on android because its feature rich and allows me to set a schedule to download all of my earwolf shows so that I dont have to use up my data plan to listen. Thats kind of a deal breaker for me.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Come the fuck on. Nobody is saying that Earwolf's content is "worth nothing" or that nobody should be compensated for it.

Because podcasts are an audio medium, I view this as more comparable with Spotify or Pandora than Netflix. And services like Spotify offer both paid and ad-supported options to their listeners. Part of the beauty of Earwolf is that it has been so remarkably easy to explore podcasts' backlogs and really get to understand a show's history. Sticking nearly all of the archives behind a paywall makes it harder for new listeners to delve into a long-running podcast. I might never have become a fan of CBB if this had been the setup three years ago.

Plus, they're launching with no Android app. Even once they do get an Android app, I'll now be required to use their own app in order to listen to the archives, which is pretty much guaranteed to be far inferior to the current podcast app I use to listen to Earwolf programs.

Yeah no android is stupid but if that's not what you're saying, what are you saying?

I always hear people say "look no ones saying this stuff is worthless" and then go on to say they should have it for free and it sucks that it's not free any more. Am I reading that wrong?

What is the actual argument against what I'm saying? What are you willing to pay for entertainment then?

I mean I guess it's a stupid question, everyone has their own threshold, but I never hear the opposing answer, I just hear "no one is saying that".

As far as archives and backlogs go, I don't think this is anything like music. Most of these podcasts build narratives and stories and reoccurring characters just like TV shows, and I don't really buy the idea that no one would have gotten into Arrested Development unless they could start at the beginning for free.

Would it have been easier? Definitely. But it's a pretty terrible business model.

I don't mean to harp on this shit, I've just seen tons of people in all kinds of media turf out in the last ten years as content became easier to get at no cost, so I really welcome these kinds of models that actually attempt to generate income.

It's not a perfect solution right now, for sure, but I'm hesitant to burn it down.

 

[Bread]

So wait - does this effect all shows? Even HDTGM?

as much as you HDTGM fans weirdly don't want to be included in this thread's umbrella, yes it does.

 

[Fantastical]

Can't wait to hear the HH boys' take on this.

 

[BertramCooper]

Yeah no android is stupid but if that's not what you're saying, what are you saying?

I always hear people say "look no ones saying this stuff is worthless" and then go on to say they should have it for free and it sucks that it's not free any more. Am I reading that wrong?

What is the actual argument against what I'm saying? What are you willing to pay for entertainment then?

Stop acting like we're not giving Earwolf anything under their current model. We're listening to their ads, and that's not worthless - to them, to us, or to their advertisers.

I listen to all of the ads on Earwolf podcasts. Every single one. Even on old episodes. I've answered virtually all of those ad surveys they've done so that they can enhance the effectiveness of their advertising.

As I've said before, I really fucking enjoy the ads on Earwolf shows. They've done a remarkably good job at making them entertaining and every bit as funny as the shows themselves. It's kind of sad that all of those old ads are going to be gouged out of the old eps. There's a lot of good stuff in there.

 

[Rapscallion]

My biggest concern is that we'll see some shows that would have gained a following thrown behind the paywall because they know we'll pay for them. Jermaine's new show, for example, is something I will definitely check out when it comes out, but I'm not willing to subscribe just to see if the shows behind the paywall are worth it.

I can't see myself subscribing. If they're going to make listeners pay for episodes that have been free for years, then that's ridiculous. There's no reason to throw previously free content behind a paywall just so you can get new listeners to subscribe.

 

[Fantastical]

What are some other examples of models where they gave you stuff for free, then took that stuff away later?

 

[KarmaCow]

What are some other examples of models where they gave you stuff for free, then took that stuff away later?

Well Hardcore History does this, older episodes get pushed into the archive which you need to pay for individually.

I can understand the business reasoning behind it, ads that even a year old are often defunct and outdated. It's not a case like Spotify where ads are a layer removed from the music itself, so it can be cycled in and out without major editing.

 

[Fantastical]

Well Hardcore History does this, older episodes get pushed into the archive which you need to pay for individually.

Were they ever (all) available for free? I'm meaning like a show was for free on the internet or something then went behind a paywall and changed the model so that now only a certain amount were free.

EDIT: Just read Reddit and there was a suggestion for bringing the video podcasts back. I would LOVE that. Watching a video feed of HH would be hysterical.
EDIT2: Howl app needs A LOT of work. It's going to be very hard to compete with Pocket Casts and Instacast. Can you not download shows automatically?

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Stop acting like we're not giving Earwolf anything under their current model. We're listening to their ads, and that's not worthless - to them, to us, or to their advertisers.

I listen to all of the ads on Earwolf podcasts. Every single one. Even on old episodes. I've answered virtually all of those ad surveys they've done so that they can enhance the effectiveness of their advertising.

As I've said before, I really fucking enjoy the ads on Earwolf shows. They've done a remarkably good job at making them entertaining and every bit as funny as the shows themselves. It's kind of sad that all of those old ads are going to be gouged out of the old eps. There's a lot of good stuff in there.

That's a valid argument.

Anyway, it's clear I'm a mark for this sort of stuff so I feel like I'm not adding much. I'll just keep talking about Hollywood Handbook as I make my way through the archives.

 

[BertramCooper]

That's a valid argument.

Anyway, it's clear I'm a mark for this sort of stuff so I feel like I'm not adding much. I'll just keep talking about Hollywood Handbook as I make my way through the archives.

Really, all I'm saying is that one shouldn't assume that resistance to this new approach is a sign that we don't value Earwolf's content.

The $5 isn't an issue for me. It's far more of a convenience issue.

Additionally, it's now going to be helluva lot harder for me to sell people on Earwolf podcasts when the bulk of their backlogs are behind a paywall.

 

[tim.mbp]

My biggest concern is that we'll see some shows that would have gained a following thrown behind the paywall because they know we'll pay for them. Jermaine's new show, for example, is something I will definitely check out when it comes out, but I'm not willing to subscribe just to see if the shows behind the paywall are worth it.

That is my concern too. I wish they would have done a more freemium model. Episodes are free with ads, and a membership gets you archives, behind the scenes stuff, no ads, maybe some other value added shit, and a goddamn t-shirt.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Really, all I'm saying is that one shouldn't assume that resistance to this new approach is a sign that we don't value Earwolf's content.

The $5 isn't an issue for me. It's far more of a convenience issue.

Additionally, it's now going to be helluva lot harder for me to sell people on Earwolf podcasts when the bulk of their backlogs are behind a paywall.

I can see all that. Weirdly enough this is all much more convenient for me. I listen to music through my iPod Classic so to listen to casts I had to download through iTunes and check off the thing and if I wanted to listen to old ones I had to check those off and all that. I'm sure there are good podcast apps but I'm flagrantly lazy. Having all the good stuff in one place makes it super easy for me.

I can see that's not for everyone but I think Maron had it right in that Fast Company article. There's a lot of barriers for entry to listen to podcasts and this makes it pretty super easy.

 

[Maklershed]

My path to most shows on Earwolf: Listen to an any old ep with Jason Mantzoukas, Paul Scheer, or Nick Kroll - if I like it, check out the most recently released episode or two. If I still like it, I become a fan of the show and work my way from beginning to present. Worked like a charm for HDTGM, Who Charted, CBB, and Hollywood Handbook. (I've kinda lapsed with WC though - sorry Ku Ku and Wie Wie)

as much as you HDTGM fans weirdly don't want to be included in this thread's umbrella

Speak on that?