But Office 365 is actually a very good deal.
EDGE: The next Xbox: Always online, no second-hand games, 50GB Blu-ray and new kinect
- Thread starter Hanmik
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But Office 365 is actually a very good deal.
NullPointer
Member
That's exactly my worry. There's nothing to stop them from locking things down even further, raising costs and introducing more ads once they reach a large enough captive audience.
Its my main gripe with moving to services, as nothing is guaranteed to even function and far too much is subject to change with seemingly zero customer recourse.
They'll get a check but it won't be a reality check.. lol.
You guys don't seem to understand that in the Office business they didn't make the first move on subs, they are reacting to competing online Office suites.
The subscription service is not only a better deal for the consumer but also for Microsoft. $99.99 a year for 4 licenses that can be activated and deactivated at any time, deactivation doesn't even force you to uninstall.
Essentially you could leave it installed on a spare computer and when needed to just activate it and deactivate it when done.
I can't believe you guys are directly comparing a push for Office subscription with what they are doing on the next Xbox, that's quite a stretch.
Yeah that's what I'm afraid of :/
Edit: Note I wasn't talking about Office 365, I was talking about Office 2013 being tied to one computer ever.
yup, it looks like they are killing retail Office software. http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX43714
PKC isn't new for 2013 though, but it's the first time they've removed physical media in all Office SKU's. They even released "new" versions of Mac Office in order to to this, and increased the price. Those bastards.
Yeah, I noted that. For people who just want to use it every so often it's awful (though OpenOffice is probably the better choice anyway) but I really can see the value for a business/job that's reliant on it and for some students too.
Well, when this seems like a model born out of Xbox Live AND is coming at the expense of the traditional program there's cause for concern I'd think. But it's a big mystery so far, which admittedly is part of why it's worrying.
EDIT: Also, I think worrying about this mentality affecting the Xbox makes more sense than worrying they will in fact lock one game down toa system forever. They may do other crap we don't want (like anti-used games or always online), but they have to know they have a good thing going there while Nintendo doing similar (not AS strict though) has gotten them a lot of crap. One of the stupidest things you could possibly do is have a great online set up, look at the maligned competitor, and copy THE most maligned aspect of their competitor's service.
How exactly is it at the expense of the traditional program? If anything it's a way better deal for anyone that uses Office, $400(single activation) vs $99 a year(unlimited activations 4 at a time).
Most consumers picked Office up as part of OEM bundles that ran closer to $99 than the full $400 MSRP, and most consumers are still on Office XP, 2003, or 2007 (so $1200, $1000, or $600 at this point yearly).
Because you used to be able to deactivate Office and movie it to another computer if you paid the kind of prices you do here. Then they limit to one computer period while convinently bringing up this subscription model. Yeah, they're deliberately making the traditional version a lame deal to make people want the subscription one instead.
Of course, I said this myself that is exactly what they are doing but how is the actual product (Office 2013) losing anything in this deal?
How is that at the expense of the actual software itself though like you said? Office 2013 through the subscription is the same as the retail you just own it instead of paying for access.
This is somehow stopping them from just upgrading to Office 2013 and going $99.99 a year?
If anything this is a awesome deal for people that bought OEM as they were stuck with a single install anyway now for $99 they get 4 licenses with unlimited activations(4 active at a time.).
If I bought something 10 years ago that still works fine for $100, or even for $400, then being told I can replace it with something that costs $99 a year is not very impressive. Even if the replacement has attractive features, it's still guaranteed to cost 2.5x-10x as much.
4 full activations is only even appealing if you want to keep full Office activated on 4 systems, which is an extremely unusual usage pattern. Little Timmy and Susie don't have any sort of use for Outlook and Access, even assuming you've got the full nuclear family, and if Mom and Dad are both expected to work from home they've almost definitely got volume-licensed copies on their laptops.
This is a horrible argument, we might as well stop making and leasing new cars.
How is the best office suite you can buy for $100 a year and comes with 4 copies unimpressive?
They can replace their single copy with 4 copies on separate devices and the newest and most update form of office for $100.
Another terrible argument, you're trying to argue that offering 4 full activations is somehow bad.
What about a business guy that has multiple computers, a home computer, a business computer and a laptop now he can have full Office on all of those and another on top of that for $99 a year.
For $100 a year. Which over the lifetime of the product adds up to a 150%-900% markup.
If you want to draw the automotive lease metaphor, it's like rolling down to the Toyota dealership and finding out that it's now $1000 a month to lease Corollas and you get a 4-pack: only any good if you need four of them, and only a discount then if you paid sticker price for the last ones rather than taking advantage on the oh-so-frequent incentives.
I'm arguing that ONLY offering four full copies now is poor for the average consumer (including that businessman! Either his work computer or his home computer is going to be that laptop, and the work computer's going to be covered by volume licensing.)
It's also worth noting that most Office 2010 options were licensed for multiple installs; you're not comparing four $100-$200 packages that lasted 3 years to a $100 p.a. sub like you want to, you're comparing a $200ish Office Pro package licensed for a desktop and laptop pair, or a $125ish Office Home package licensed for three systems.
So assuming we're talking a serious, self-employed businessman or expert contractor supplying all his own equipment, a desktop in the home office and a laptop for the road and client sites, he's gone from $200 or so over the past three years to $297 for the next three years. And now he doesn't have the option of deciding that Office 2010 is more than good enough for his purposes and keeping it at no further cost until a major improvement shows up.
Either I'm missing something or you are, but it's a freedom you used to have (install over the lifetime of 5 systems) that's been heavily compromised and a subscription model introduced. Office 2013 loses by them removing a freedom you once had to push you towards getting a subscription. Granted, it can be a moot point if you keep the same computer for 5 years or so, but they do break down and some people change too often.
Plus given the Live signin requirement I imagine it's only bound to a single account, and if I'm right you're NOT getting this to use across your family (unless you share the account), you're using this to share across your work computer, your home computer, and maybe your laptop and/or tablet. Like said, good for serious business use, but I think they want everyone on their own subscriptions for this.
w1ck3dn1nj4
Member
Sadly, thats what itll come down to when I evaluate between 720 and PS4 in the end. Not so much of a question of which next gen magnificence Ill be most looking forward to, but rather which of the two Ill prefer to support as the lesser of two evils going forward; be it the goddamn paywall, the extent and emphasis of motion control gimmickry and anti-consumer measures. Good times ahead.
Hmm that reminds me of MSs previous attempt of bringing the Xbox live model to PC space. Theres hope yet if the hilarity of GFWL is anything to go by :-D
NullPointer
Member
Seeing the class action suit against the PS3 removing Linux support, and looking deeper into how Steam works after the Terms and Conditions changes both opened my eyes up to some of the worst aspects of services and just what we can rely upon in a console. Regulations and limitations have to come down the line at some point, so yeah, times ahead should be interesting at least.
What they are doing with Office relates to Durango because it shows how they are willing to change core paradigms without regard to customer preference or customer choice. It belies the whole "they'd never do that" defense, because they would very much "do that".
One person said that when he had his taxes done at H&R Block, he was surprised to see they were using Libre Office. My wife is going on a Google Apps conference because her school district is thinking of switching everything over to it. Anecdotal sure, but it shows that many people and organizations don't need office.
One person said that when he had his taxes done at H&R Block, he was surprised to see they were using Libre Office. My wife is going on a Google Apps conference because her school district is thinking of switching everything over to it. Anecdotal sure, but it shows that many people and organizations don't need office.
It may well also highlight how dumb this really is. They're losing marketshare, and are doing stuff that antagonizes people and drives them away. I was thinking Microsoft may've been the smartest about their third console, but it's starting to sound like they may well be the worst of them all instead. Each of the other three's failings at least weren't due to being strongly anti-consumer beyond pricing, not out the gate anyway.
Version 3.0
Member
Is this sarcasm? I play my old systems all the time. They're not in the closet or the garage, they're hooked up and ready to go.
Cool set up.
Chittagong
Gold Member
Account? Sure.
One console? That's Nintendo levels of stupid.
One console? That's Nintendo levels of stupid.
Well, I think Office 2013 will be the last subscription free Office. Office 365 will be the future and in Office 365 you can deactivate the license on a computer for example...
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/support/install-office-on-more-than-one-computer-HA102901468.aspx
Version 3.0
Member
I'm sure that's a good deal for some, but definitely not for me. I've used the copy of Office I have over 5 PCs so far, over the course of about 8 years. You're telling me that going to a $100 a year model is a deal? That's, at the very least, double what I paid (and one PC short). I don't need 4 copies. I just need one copy that's movable.
Version 3.0
Member
The sooner the better. And who's to say a good compromise can't be reached? Here's what I would suggest: physical games stay the way they've always been; you buy it, you own it, can resell it, etc. Online passes stay for online functions, but disc games must work without a connection. Companies are free to go all-digital, and buying that gets you no guarantees, just like now (mostly).
The only difference I'm proposing is that companies be required to make a disc version of every game, not necessarily for release at retail (their choice), but one must be available direct from them if not available elsewhere.
Maybe very few would take advantage, but I would.
Miles Quaritch
Member
That is an amazing set up.
I was just thinking about the whole "used-games" issue. You know I really don't buy used games for the most part, I don't see why it's such a big thing. I would never buy a chewed up, grimy copy of something for just 5$ less, but what really does piss me off is that I'm not going to be able to share my games with friends anymore, which has sold me on some games numerous times. I remember I really wasn't that excited about Borderlands, but I bought it (to play co-op) after my friend lent me his copy, not to mention I bought some DLC and a copy for the next game.
I think Publishers should be punishing the people like Gamestop who make a living off selling used games, instead of the customers. Why can't they write "not for resale" on the back of the box like DVD's do? That way we don't get boned, and all sales are for new games. I don't know, I guess it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
I think Publishers should be punishing the people like Gamestop who make a living off selling used games, instead of the customers. Why can't they write "not for resale" on the back of the box like DVD's do? That way we don't get boned, and all sales are for new games. I don't know, I guess it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
ThisWreckage
Banned
This is completely anecdotal, but my friends and I were discussing this and every single one of us came to the conclusion that we would go with Sony over Microsoft if these rumors are true. It sounds like a fatal misstep if they go through with this.
Wouldn't it have been easier to go to Staples and have a big banner made that says VIRGIN and hung that up?
muahahahahahahahahahahahahah!
But, seriously, I'm jealous of the set up.
shinobi602
Member
Have to say, I actually really like this design:
I think this is a bit too late 90s/early 00s in temrs of design for MS to go with it. Looks very boxy and angular.Have to say, I actually really like this design:
I think both Sony and MS will try to make their consoles look as un-box-like as possible. The ante has been upped for hardware design even more recently, and I think the general populace cares about it more than ever before too.
Conscience Falls
Member
What if the restriction ends up simply being the user has to be online to unlock achievements? It just seems like an easy first step into that realm.
Your anecdote compares favourably with my anecdote. This is going to be a death sentence for any company foolish enough to implement it.
Beer Monkey
Member
It'll either be both companies in the next generation or neither of them. Neither is suicidal enough to do it alone.
So basically to make a box look unboxlike ?
snowdog1971
Banned
Blimey, I can't believe Microsoft have been this dim-witted if true. Not allowing the use of second hand gamesgis a huge mistake. I thought that they'd have trouble shifting units because of the cost given what's been leaked of the hardware but always online and no second hand games? I think this may flop unless it's asacheap as chips. Unbelievable.
Going to be interesting to see what, if anything, Sony are going to do about second hand games. If they decide to do a similar thing I can see that being a dealbreaker for a fair few people.
Going to be interesting to see what, if anything, Sony are going to do about second hand games. If they decide to do a similar thing I can see that being a dealbreaker for a fair few people.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
We've covered this ad nauseum. There is absolutely nothing that points to this. If anything, the company who doesn't would look much, much better in the eyes of the consumer.
I honestly believe it will be the end of the console industry.
seattle6418
Member
I think the point here is that people underestimate the willingness that other folks have to overpay for things or to pay for shit/unnecessary services.
The office one is a good example.
We are in 2013 and for no good reason at all people keep paying huge fees for office software!
I can't believe in shit like this when you have things like Google docs and Open Office, but i see coworkers and general people doing this.
So, my take on this is that even doing the most unfriendly like decisions MS will still sell the Durango well based on strong IP's like Halo and Gears.
Some core gamers will be pissed, will jump out, but in the end they will still be doing their draconian business because there's a market for it.
The office one is a good example.
We are in 2013 and for no good reason at all people keep paying huge fees for office software!
I can't believe in shit like this when you have things like Google docs and Open Office, but i see coworkers and general people doing this.
So, my take on this is that even doing the most unfriendly like decisions MS will still sell the Durango well based on strong IP's like Halo and Gears.
Some core gamers will be pissed, will jump out, but in the end they will still be doing their draconian business because there's a market for it.
Same as my case. Everyone I've talked to will switch if rumors are true.
Same here. This is absolutely idiotic if true. Even the best internet services have blackouts for any number of reasons. Shitty weather, internet's down? Oh look, I can't play my Xbox. Fucking stupid.
Yeah the time you'd most likely want to play a game (internet is down) you can't. That's an instant no-sale to me.
No I haven't, boycotted Diablo 3 for the same reason. Haven't played a Blizzard game since WoW only had 1 expansion pack. That was a looooong time ago.
Developers have been moving in that direction to require online to play their PC games.
EA's Origin
Ubisoft
Blizzard
There's no confirmation from Sony, but it would seem foolish and naive that they aren't considering it. The fact that the PS4's BC for PS3 games and downloadable arcade titles require online streaming is just a start.
With more games that are going to toy around with cross-online play (e.g. Destiny), seems like always online is going to be the requirement in the future.