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EDGE: The next Xbox: Always online, no second-hand games, 50GB Blu-ray and new kinect

Mascot

Member
I think I mentioned this in another thread, but I heard always online isn't DRM related actually, but rather some way to download updates or items in a sleep state, similar to what the PS4 can do. Apparently the two way the systems go about this, technologically speaking, is somewhat different.

Is there a word for the feeling of dread and anxiety I feel every time I boot up my PS3, expecting a one-hour wait for updates before I can use the bloody thing? And is there another word for the rare feeling of euphoria when an update isn't required?

If Sony really can deal with this type of nonsense on the PS4 then I'm halfway on board already.
 

Cartman86

Banned
It... works. You can play online, download games (from a very convenient interface devoid of ads), video chat, browse faster and more conveniently than on any other console, so my guess is we're dealing with an Eastwood Chair situation here.

Text overload!

- It takes 9 seconds to load up your friends list which kicks you out of the Mii-verse, eShop and some other "apps".

- Sending an invite to a friend doesn't put an invite on their console. They have to add you themselves. They fixed this.

- You can't message friends from your friends list. You have to go into the Miiverse to send anything. The Miiverse takes over 20 seconds to load up.

- Lack of system level invite system. Apparently Tekken Tag 2 is pretty dumb about this. If you want to play versus a friend you have to share a code with them and you both have to enter it. Playing Call of Duty and want to invite a friend into a game? Well they better be playing the game at that moment or it won't work.

- Want to use the video chat as a workaround for a party chat? Sure, but you can't do it while playing a game. Get ready for loads!

- The entire account system is fucked. You can't move saves, profiles, or games between consoles.

- Everything takes forever to download and install.

So to demonstrate the fucked up flow here is an example. Let's say you are browsing the Miiverse and you want to see who is online to play. The Miiverse won't tell you who is online or not, so you'll have to press the Home button (7 seconds) which backs you out to the main WiiU menu and at the same time pops up the in-game overlay thing which contains quick buttons to access your friends list, Miiverse, eShop, Browser etc. So you click on the Friends list (9 seconds). Once that loads you see who is online. Now you want to send them a message asking them if they want to play something. You click on their name, but there is no messaging option here. You have to click on the go to their Miiverse profile icon (~20 seconds). Now it has auto loaded into their profile page, but there isn't a messaging icon here, so you have to click on the General Messages tab on the left and then click on their profile in this screen and finally you will get the option to "Write Message". Not only are the Nintendo recognized load times an issue, but so is the entire system they designed where they separate out features from the WiiU system itself (Friends list) into the Web based Miiverse. Whoever designed this didn't put much thought into it.

It all creates for an atmosphere of nothing going on. The only place with any color is the Miiverse and that's so far entirely a novelty to go and see good artists fuck around. Games that take advantage of the Miiverse is unique way number in the 1's (ZombiU).

I don't expect much of these issues to be fixed. I expect Nintendo to make great games like they always do. But the current gen consoles already surpass Nintendo's online solution and the PS4 and most certainly the 720 will make the WiiU look like a ghost town in comparison. There is a reason more people will be playing on the 720 and PS4. No it won't just be because their are social Facebook walls in your face on every menu. You'll be able to pop up a video or voice chat room while in a game, and possibly on the PS4 and probably on the 720 in every app. If these features aren't integrated to a level where you can access them everywhere quickly people won't use them and the community will suffer. Even if you don't care about how the community thrives these features will be just as half baked for you. Just look at the Kinect Video Chat on the 360. No one uses it. It suffers from the same issues as the WiiU.

There are maybe 2 positives I can see in Nintendo's implementation of online features. The browser is easily the best browser on a console so far, and the implementation of the video player with the WiiU Gamepad which lets you continue to browser while you play a video is exactly the type of thinking I want from them. Maybe i'm too optimistic about Microsoft, but I full expect them to 1-up this with the ability to just push web pages and video to the 720 from your tablet, phone or PC using Smartglass. Combine that with the quick loading apps and you have a new way that people use their televisions. Google has been trying to do this with Google TV, but no one bought it. I don't see Microsoft having that problem. Anyways the other success appears to be the policies they have in place with the eShop. Self publishing, free updates etc. Rumor is the next gen will do that as well. I expect Sony to, but Microsoft worries me. I really feel like they have to do it if they want to succeed like they did for the first half of the generation, but they seem to be the strictest.
 

iceatcs

Junior Member
Are they gonna have an online registration thing? Do you have to register on the Wii-U, or is it just pop the disc in and play?
Likely, I think it is no way to create PSN account offline. You need online to register account. Don't have to on PS. PC internet browser can do that.

Or you mean the crazy one. Online activation to turn system fully?
 

Liamario

Banned
Yeah, kinda sucks if the device does more than just games. It's downright horrible to be able to check mails, skype with friends and family, watch movies and more on my GAMES console.

While I completely agree with your sentiments, I think the poster was concerned that they will move focus away from core games and onto non games related activities.
 

AOC83

Banned
Some of you guys are really naive if you don't believe Sony is going for the living room as well.

There is a difference between going for the living room and almost completely neglecting the core gamers while going for the living room.
The second is what Microsoft was doing for the last 3-4 years.
 

Shantom

Member
It... works. You can play online, download games (from a very convenient interface devoid of ads), video chat, browse faster and more conveniently than on any other console, so my guess is we're dealing with an Eastwood Chair situation here.

I can't do any of those things on my Wii U due to its complete failure to find my router even when it's directly connected to it. This is the same router that works fine for every other device I have including the 3DS and Wii.
 
I wonder how long it's going to take all of them (be it MS, Apple, Sony, Google, whatever) to realize they're never going to win the living room. Fundamentally, I don't think any of us want any single company to control our living rooms... :/
 

iceatcs

Junior Member
Some of you guys are really naive if you don't believe Sony is going for the living room as well.

Of course, but I think it is not only room Sony want. Bedroom, devs office etc...

Maybe MS solely focus on living-room nothing else.
 
No way the next Xbox requires constant internet connection. There are a shitload of disconnected 360's out there in kids' rooms that have zero internet. CD-key games? Maybe. Always-on internet required? No way.
 

PBMax

Member
I can't do any of those things on my Wii U due to its complete failure to find my router even when it's directly connected to it. This is the same router that works fine for every other device I have including the 3DS and Wii.

Did you try to set it up manually? That worked for me.
 

Espada

Member
There is a difference between going for the living room and almost completely neglecting the core gamers while going for the living room.
The second is what Microsoft was doing for the last 3-4 years.

I think we're jumping the gun a little here. We know the least about Microsoft's console and services of the three, and what we do know is from questionable rumors. We can't be certain that Microsoft is going to continue on the same course as the 360's last few years. Keep in mind that that's a console on its way out and Microsoft had to find another angle for it. Kinect and the casual gamer was it.

To start a generation off like that would be foolish and unlikely on MS's part.
 

LuchaShaq

Banned
1. Always online

2. No second hand

3. Kinect in box.


Well despite playing the vast majority of my third party games on xbox1/xbox 360 it looks like I won't EVER own a nextbox.

If ps4 blocks used I guess I'll be steam sale only.

Hell if 1 or 2 happen it's enough to say fuck off.
 

Ding-Ding

Member
Some of you guys are really naive if you don't believe Sony is going for the living room as well.

There is a difference between a device which is focused on games with living room features acting as a supplement, and going for a device aimed at the living room with games as the supplement

MS seem focused on the latter. Its very much a role reversal of the beginning of last gen and MS deserve to get the same treatment that Sony got at PS3's launch. In fact if they go with always online, then they deserve to just to disappear up their own arses
 

Shahed

Member
The Sim City backlash is more than enough to show how to piss off consumers with always online DRM.

But if MS in theory incorporated always online, wouldn't it be far easier for them in practise? All they need to do is make sure you are signed into Live. They shouldn't have the same server issues Sim City had
 

Reiko

Banned
But if MS in theory incorporated always online, wouldn't it be far easier for them in practise? All they need to do is make sure you are signed into Live. They shouldn't have the same server issues Sim City had

Well with always online there is always room for disaster.

Microsoft having server downtime on their end or our own ISPs going to bed when we least expect them to. I will say right now that my ISP isn't very reliable.
 

Shahed

Member
Well with always online there is always room for disaster.

Microsoft having server downtime on their end or our own ISPs going to bed when we least expect them to. I will say right now that my ISP isn't very reliable.

Oh I'm in no way endorsing the idea or even claiming it's foolproof. I think the whole thing will backfire on them badly if it is done. It's just that we shouldn't get Sim City like disasters

I have very stable internet, but I'd be completely against it
 

Bgamer90

Banned
There is a difference between a device which is focused on games with living room features acting as a supplement, and going for a device aimed at the living room with games as the supplement

MS seem focused on the latter. Its very much a role reversal of the beginning of last gen and MS deserve to get the same treatment that Sony got at PS3's launch. In fact if they go with always online, then they deserve to just to disappear up their own arses

So fact = your own perception?

Sony and MS are exactly the same when it comes to the goals they want next gen. Both will have similar games more than likely and both will have similar media apps/functions on their system. The difference(s) will be in the marketing and the way that both set up their online services.
 

Flatline

Banned
Why are so many acting like this is just MS?

Sony wants the same goal with the PS4. Don't let talking points during conferences and differences in advertising fool you.

Heck-- same is true with the Wii U in some ways but it'll be closer to a "pure gaming console" than the PS4 or Next Xbox will be.


This has already been explained imo:


There is a difference between a device which is focused on games with living room features acting as a supplement, and going for a device aimed at the living room with games as the supplement

MS seem focused on the latter. Its very much a role reversal of the beginning of last gen and MS deserve to get the same treatment that Sony got at PS3's launch. In fact if they go with always online, then they deserve to just to disappear up their own arses
 

The_Monk

Member
If all of this could become true, or even half-true it was never been easier for me to avoid this console.

Always Online is a concern since It's something I can't control it, no second-hand is only bad because I tend to borrow some games for my friends or family to play them and Kinect? That's not really my thing and I have one for one year and a half.

Sure, show me next PGR and FORZA 5 and I will go crazy and wanting them but I can't justify a new console (plus with such things as those quoted in the article) for 2 games. Or even 5 games. It's going to be PS4 (considering there will be Free Online Play, PS Plus and I've been always a fan of the PS4 exclusives) for me and I still have my Backlog on my PS3 and 360.

Is any fellow GAFfer who is a fan of Microsoft and wanting the Console on Day One still okay with all of this? Just curious.

Thanks for reading.
 

AOC83

Banned
I think we're jumping the gun a little here. We know the least about Microsoft's console and services of the three, and what we do know is from questionable rumors. We can't be certain that Microsoft is going to continue on the same course as the 360's last few years. Keep in mind that that's a console on its way out and Microsoft had to find another angle for it. Kinect and the casual gamer was it.

To start a generation off like that would be foolish and unlikely on MS's part.

The problem here is that the rumors fit almost perfectly to Microsofts behaviour the last few years, so they seem very believable. Anyway, we are going to see what they really have in store in a few weeks/months and are able to base the discussion on some more facts then. But one thing is pretty clear for me, if they stay on their non gaming path i´m done with them.
 

Shahed

Member
I don't see why you seem surprised by how people are reacting when you answered your own question. It's in the advertising. All the PR both companies are doing about their stances are advertising in themselves.

Yes both Sony and MS have the same goal. The living room. You'd be silly to think otherwise. But Sony appear to be pretending not to care about the living room and are focused on the so called core gamer first. MS have simply skipped a stage in the consoles lifespan.

Not that either direction is right or wrong, buy you can't be surprised that a gaming site seems more inclined to favour a platform that on the surface seems to appealing to them more than one that isn't
 
Heck-- same is true with the Wii U in some ways but it'll be closer to a "pure gaming console" than the PS4 or Next Xbox will be.

The irony.

Not for me though, since I've always thought that Nintendo's vision of gaming always had and will always be focused on what they can offer gaming wise (gameplay is the main thing they're working on, fun is the second one) whether Sony and MS are trying to do more than gaming from the beginning.

I wouldn't be as radical as some because having a box like this in my living room could be very nice but they will have more challengers than just Nintendo.

I was really against no used games at first but if the prices are divided by two then I'm ok with that (I'm dreaming I know that we won't get that... and I'll buy the PS4 if I can play used games... ok I'm dreaming again... if not on both systems maybe I'll stick with one system only for the first time in years).
 

Bgamer90

Banned
This has already been addressed imo:

And as I said before, MS is just as focused on having games on the Next Xbox and Sony is for the PS4.

90% of the games on both systems will more than likely be the same. In terms of exclusives, many of the exclusives on each system will more than likely be of similar genres-- e.g. The Xbox Sim racer vs. the PS sim racer, The Xbox arcade racer vs. the PS arcade racer, the Xbox space shooter vs. the PS space shooter, etc.

Thinking that the Next Xbox won't have games as one of its major focuses is silly.
 
Why are so many acting like this is just MS?

Sony wants the same goal with the PS4. Don't let talking points during conferences and differences in advertising fool you.

Heck-- same is true with the Wii U in some ways but it'll be closer to a "pure gaming console" than the PS4 or Next Xbox will be.

Weird considering that more people use the PS3 for Netflix than any other non-computer device. Sony wants the living room too and we'll see that big push the closer to launch. Remember that Sony has a movie studio, television studio, and a record label and they need to sell that content. You would be foolish to think that content isn't going to be pushed on the PS4.
 

LuchaShaq

Banned
90% of the games on both systems will more than likely be the same..

Nailed it.


90%+ of the best games this gen were multiplatform.

As long as the weaker of the 2 can run ports competently games are basically already most of the way covered. At that point the ancillary stuff is what separates the systems.
 

Flatline

Banned
And as I said before, MS is just as focused on having games on the Next Xbox and Sony is for the PS4.

90% of the games on both systems will more than likely be the same. In terms of exclusives, many of the exclusives on each system will more than likely be of similar genres-- e.g. The Xbox Sim racer vs. the PS sim racer, The Xbox arcade racer vs. the PS arcade racer, the Xbox space shooter vs. the PS space shooter, etc.

Thinking that the Next Xbox won't have games as one of its major focuses is silly.


For many including myself Microsoft doesn't seem that focused the last couple of years. Let's hope they'll change that next gen. Also, by that logic we should care less about games and more about hardware which PS4 seems to be better at.
 
The Sim City backlash is more than enough to show how to piss off consumers with always online DRM.

I'd believe the "always online drm" from MS would be a way to alleviate the issues from individual publishers. I don't believe MS is doing this out of the goodness of their own heart, I believe they think they can get a piece of the drm pie if they provide the service to publishers rather than individual publishers deciding to do their own thing.
 

Shahed

Member
And as I said before, MS is just as focused on having games on the Next Xbox and Sony is for the PS4.

90% of the games on both systems will more than likely be the same. In terms of exclusives, many of the exclusives on each system will more than likely be of similar genres-- e.g. The Xbox Sim racer vs. the PS sim racer, The Xbox arcade racer vs. the PS arcade racer, the Xbox space shooter vs. the PS space shooter, etc.

Thinking that the Next Xbox won't have games as one of its major focuses is silly.

Yes there are people drawing lines too early, but that's expected around this sort of time. It's all a bit silly, considering both platforms will have a lot of games, and also a lot of services for the living room.

But answer me this honestly. Ignore what the end result of content provided will be, and the likelihood of how things will turn out. Based solely on the comments you've heard related to the PS4 and Nextbox, can you honestly be surprised people seem more confident in the PS4 as a more gamer oriented device.

Like I said, ignore what will happen. Just look at the surface of how things appear to be. Whether you agree or disagree, you already have your answer
 

LuchaShaq

Banned
For many including myself Microsoft doesn't seem that focused the last couple of years. Let's hope they'll change that next gen. Also, by that logic we should care less about games and more about hardware which PS4 seems to be better at.

You're missing the point.

Microsoft could say ZERO words about games at E3 (not realistic just saying), even then the vast majority of franchises will still be on both consoles which is what matters.

Sony could ONLY talk about games, and they would still have most of the important non game serivces hulu/netflix/fad social network X.
 
I'd believe the "always online drm" from MS would be a way to alleviate the issues from individual publishers. I don't believe MS is doing this out of the goodness of their own heart, I believe they think they can get a piece of the drm pie if they provide the service to publishers rather than individual publishers deciding to do their own thing.

That's how i feel about it, and that's why I'll be skipping this system. Provided the rumors are true... I really don't understand why MS would screw up so badly with these choicrs, again, if they are true. This upcoming gen I am going to be more selective with whom/what I support.
 
There is a difference between a device which is focused on games with living room features acting as a supplement, and going for a device aimed at the living room with games as the supplement

This man gets it. No one is saying that Sony's ultimate goal isn't dominating the living room. The philosophy on how to get those consoles into the living room is going to be drastically different, however.
 
Nailed it.


90%+ of the best games this gen were multiplatform.

As long as the weaker of the 2 can run ports competently games are basically already most of the way covered. At that point the ancillary stuff is what separates the systems.

At that point, its largely where your friends are.
 

cornerman

Member
You're missing the point.

Microsoft could say ZERO words about games at E3 (not realistic just saying), even then the vast majority of franchises will still be on both consoles which is what matters.

Sony could ONLY talk about games, and they would still have most of the important non game serivces hulu/netflix/fad social network X.

I get what you're getting at. I'm more of sony guy, and from my view not too much has changed. Sure system specs have changed, but most of what's going on right now is just continuation of what's been happening during the current gen. MS has a stable of games people love. They'll continue to evolve those titles. 3rd parties will carry the hardcore, why compete against them. Use ur new studios to strengthen xbla, and push kinect to have balance ur box (something 3rd parties won't do). Gaming is just the gateway for them. They're going to have all the games sony has as far as 3rd parties go. And at this early stage, they'll be close to par that folks won't notice. MS messaging may just be to everyone instead of just the gamer...and casual gamers will listen if the gimmick and price is right. As the hardcore jump in, they'll. Move focus away from catering to them and push more for expanding the box.

Make no mistake, sony wants the living room too. They always have...and while they're not pushing that at the start, they will once they get hardcores back on their box. They're messaging is directed at who they believe are gonna buy a box at these initial prices. They're going to make the same strides for casuals as time goes on. The difference is that having lost mindshare to MS and the trouble they had explaining what the ps3 was at launch, has sharpened their strategy wherein they want to plant their flag in the sand on gaming, own it, then expand. Sounds similar to MS, but the difference is sony will keep pumping out new games well after the hardcores have jumped in.
 

BlackJace

Member
I don't know how well you all know/trust BGassassin, but I remember that he "confirmed" that the Durango will require to be online to play a game a while back.
 
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