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[Cornbread78]

Wow.... Damn, Holy @#%@$%!!!

I definately will just skip the XBox next gen.



I'm also surprised people are stuill freaking out about the second hand games being blocked:

1) It's been on PC since the 90's, outside of shareware
2) Everybody knew it was coming for the next systems, the warning were already there...
3) there is a reason Game Stop has already started closing stores, outside of the merger consolidation.

 

[Garou]

Look what I found: https://groups.google.com/d/topic/comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action/Xq-um_Upyc4/discussion

I will use the past to show you all the future:

So then, what happens when someone who doesn't have internet buys this game. Are they going to allow returns for people like that.

I encourage the boycott of

Spoiler

Half Life 2

. I won't be buying it as long as it requires internet activation or an internet connection. Giving in could set a dangerous trend for software. And also, from the looks of it...

Spoiler

Gabe Newell

could stand a little poverty around the wasteline.
Goodbye

Spoiler

Gordon Freeman

, we hardly knew you.

He doesn't. It's not

Spoiler

Valve's

responsibility to make sure each and every person out there can play the game. They decided they wanted internet validation... *shrug*. If they feel the sales won't suffer, fine. Personally, I don't think they will suffer much, if at all.

It's been over 8 years...and a whole new generation can now experience the same meltdown like those before them.

 

[KillerMan91]

Why are we all just assuming Sony won't do the same thing? I feel like there's equal evidence at this point to support Sony will also block used game sales.

They have still meaningful sales in Japan. No used games = dead before launch in Japan. It would be even more insane move by Sony than it's by MS.

 

[Glorified G]

Someone should bring a megaphone to the ps meeting and repeatedly ask about used games until kaz answers.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Um....is this the third system curse? It's almost inevitable, isn't it?

 

[EVOL 100%]

If both the Orbis and Durango actually pull this shit then I'm skipping them. Might as well support Nintendo and the PC.

 

[Doffen]

Patent yes, but no rumor like this that they might actually use it.

So you take rumors over patents?

 

[Whompa]

What was the estimated percentage of xbox's which stay offline, something like 40%?

Dunno, but that's huge if true. I don't think they'd be that stupid to do that.

 

[syoaran]

I'll be interested to see how this all plays out. Maybe the machine will be priced low enough for mass market appeal.

Hopefully Sony will produce something customers want on the 20th

 

[Izick]

It's too bad we won't know about Sony or Microsoft's stances on this until much later down the line. Yeah, I know we're going to see the PS4 on the 20th of this month, but Sony or Microsoft won't comment on this until 11:59:59 on launch night, so they don't hinder any sales. They're not going to say either way until they have to, unless they don't use this no used games model.

 

[Glass Rebel]

HERE IS WHAT PATCHER HAS TO SAY ON THE SUBJECT OF USED GAMES IN NEXTGEN CYCLE:
http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/hhgq98/pach-attack--why-all-the-gamestop-hate-

This time, he is 10000% right.

Haha, he totally jinxed it. Damn you @rushkid2112

 

[Delio]

They have still meaningful sales in Japan. No used games = dead before launch in Japan. It would be even more insane move by Sony than it's by MS.

Well the few Japanese devs that do big HD games will just hop in. I assume the bulk will go handheld.

 

[lowrider007]

What's more likely?

Microsoft using a random blog to have a controlled leak to tip their hat at Sony or this is a steaming pile of rumor?

I see your my new friend, I didn't say I believed that, just offering up a possibility.

 

[Deified Data]

If this is true it's making my decision a lot easier.

lol, unless PS4 is exactly the same, which wouldn't shock me.

 

[Wubby]

I don't mind as long as they are more aggressive about console game pricing.

But I guess this doesn't really affect me much anyway. 90% of my gaming is on PC where online only and no used has been law of the land for a while.

 

[mrboo001]

I rarely buy used but the fact that I can't have that option means I'll NEVER buy this. Always online is also stupid.

Goodbye Forza, hello GT again! (Well, assuming PS4 isn't this stupid too)

 

[FordGTGuy]

So you take rumors over patents?

This is what I'm trying to understand, also the fact that he thinks the patents didn't create rumors.

I see your my new friend, I didn't say I believed that, just offering up a possibility.

I might be new to posting but I've been following the gaming community for a very long time and read NeoGAF for quite a while.

This possibility is so off base I'm surprised you would offer it as a genuine possibility in this discussion. Companies like Sony and Microsoft don't need blogs to tip their hats at each other. We've seen them do it before with official press releases and official responses.

 

[ASIS]

Movies - has box office, VHS/DVD/blu-ray (and DD), selling to cable, etc
Music - has retail (and DD), licensing, concerts
Publishing - is having difficulty, transitioning to ebook- cost of entry is comparatively low
Games - has retail (and DD)

Games are a one shot business. They can't license their stuff. They need teams of hundreds to make it work on a single piece of hardware,porting usually costs more (and is only going to get more expensive) than movie retransfers

But keep comparing it to incomparable mediums

But isn't that the reason why games are much more exoensive than movies and music? It may be a one shot deal but that shot will get them more revenue than any other platform?

I am not arguing but this is a very interesting discussion.

 

[LastNac]

What the...how did you do this?

Perfect response would ahve been, "I'll show you."

 

[Delusibeta]

The general populous only have limited amount of money they are willing to spend on gaming and everybody is fighting for a piece if that wallet share. By disabling the resale of games a portion of that wallet share is simply moved from the likes of Gamespot into the pockets of publishers and developers. This will either afford the publisher the option of more aggressive pricing models (similar to Steam sales etc) or the extra money will bolster shareholder confidence in game development and we'll see more investment - which would be a welcoming side effect given the number of studio closures recently.

This would also eliminate the irritating trend of developers responsible for outstanding single player games wasting time shoe-horning a lacklustre multiplayer mode in an effort to prevent the resale of a new game. Every new player directly contributes something back to the publisher.

This almost certainly won't happen, as your portion of that wallet share that was going to go to GameStop will remain in the customers wallets, and in addition a notable proportion of the people who buy new games day one for full price will be put off doing that without a method of resale. In short, publishers and developers will definitely see less money from any format doing this sort of anti-used-game DRM.

 

[The Nature Roy]

Come on Sony... Create a controller designed for a human for a change and I'm all in.

 

[ChosenPredator]

I don't mind as long as they are more aggressive about console game pricing.

But I guess this doesn't really affect me much anyway. 90% of my gaming is on PC where online only and no used has been law of the land for a while.

yeah, I am guessing this is something normal for PC only gamers but completely foreign to people who play console gaming 100 percent...i guess

 

[Fox Mulder]

If this is true for both systems I'll go out on a limb and predict an industry crash.

Whatever, I've got a huge backlog anyways.

It'll be cool to see what rises from the ashes of this bloated and unhealthy industry.

 

[Future]

The general populous only have limited amount of money they are willing to spend on gaming and everybody is fighting for a piece if that wallet share. By disabling the resale of games a portion of that wallet share is simply moved from the likes of Gamespot into the pockets of publishers and developers. This will either afford the publisher the option of more aggressive pricing models (similar to Steam sales etc) or the extra money will bolster shareholder confidence in game development and we'll see more investment - which would be a welcoming side effect given the number of studio closures recently.

This would also eliminate the irritating trend of developers responsible for outstanding single player games wasting time shoe-horning a lacklustre multiplayer mode in an effort to prevent the resale of a new game. Every new player directly contributes something back to the publisher.

Yup. Guaranteed money from every sale means you can have more aggressive pricing (AppStore and steam sales as an example). I'm sure there will be a second hand market as well, just will need activation codes

In other threads people cry about studios like superbot getting left behind, but in this one complain about the things that would gain profit for these devs.

I welcome this shit. As long as it translates into better initial pricing

 

[Hot Coldman]

Come on Sony... Create a controller designed for a human for a change and I'm all in.

DS3 FOR LIFE SON

 

[DieH@rd]

Always online? So, Gold or nothing?

Sadly No. Its gonna be again Silver [with limited functionality] or Gold [MP support, netflix, etc].

 

[Shaheed79]

if this is true I honestly expect a videogame crash coming soon. Honestly don't think the industry will survive a move like this.

Good to be a PC gamer these days.

A move like this is exactly what's going to prevent a console game industry crash. They have to do something, because console game publishers took a serious beating this past generation from HD retail game development costs. It's either this or 70-80 dollar games.

The current business model, for console game publishers, was never going to be sustainable, due to the significant increase in development costs, generation to generation. It just won't work.

 

[Kai Dracon]

The thing is, I can believe Microsoft would be the one to actually try this.

If this comes to pass, I'm pretty much out of the next Xbox.

I invest heavily into PC gaming and Steam - but there are FAR too many fringe benefits there to offset "no used games. Nextbox pushing no used games, always online DRM + $60 retail games + season passes + the usual bullshit with retailer DLC, pre-order gimmicks, the whole nine yards for the console game industry... that's it.

A move like this is exactly what's going to prevent a console game industry crash. They have to do something, because console game publishers took a serious beating this past generation from HD retail game development costs. It's either this or 70-80 dollar games.

The current business model, for console game publishers, was never going to be sustainable, due to the significant increase in development costs, generation to generation. It just won't work.

Let the console industry crash. I'm starting to think it actually needs a crash at this point as nothing else will fix it.

I have zero faith that Microsoft and big publishers would use something like DRM and no used games for benefits such as "aggressive pricing". It's been made clear that the heads of some big publishers think they should be getting twice as much money for their products already, because not only are they competing with hollywood to replace it - they're calculating the "value" of their product by comparing it to a blu-ray movie and using stupid math. "Our video game product offers a 6 hour campaign and unlimited hours of online multiplayer. A blu-ray movie is $30 and only 2 hours. We're getting ripped off by pricing our games at only $60!"

 

[Arcteryx]

Always on? Nope.

No used games? Nope.

Well at least I don't have to waste time reading/thinking about buying one anymore.

 

[Plinko]

Look what I found: https://groups.google.com/d/topic/comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action/Xq-um_Upyc4/discussion

I will use the past to show you all the future:









It's been over 8 years...and a whole new generation can now experience the same meltdown like those before them.

Here's the major difference:

We've NEVER seen any hint of anything close to something like a Steam sale on consoles. Never.

 

[Boss Man]

So you take rumors over patents?

Sean Hannity, is that you?

I wonder if any game journalists will take this anti-used game buzz and do an in-depth analysis of who's pushing for it, how likely it is, how it has been applied in the past, and what kind of effects it might have on pricing and the industry as a whole. HAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh man, I tried to type it without laughing.

 

[RobotMafia]

Fuck that. If they do that I will stay the fuck away for sure. Surely this is all just bullshit rumor.

 

[LastNac]

Honestly, as a former GS employee I have long been in favor of "buy new" only. This doesn't effect me in the slightest from one stance. On another front I am glad publishers will be able to profit more.


Sorry used crowd, I don't stand with you, not today.

 

[Izick]

Come on Sony... Create a controller designed for a human for a change and I'm all in.

Yeah, I have a PS3 and 360, and the controller is really the only thing keeping me hanging on. I love the PS3's games, but the thing's controller is garbage. The triggers are near non-functional sponges, and the size makes it feels like it's designed for a baby's hands.

 

[Napalm_Frank]

Or the rumour is a controlled leak to test the water and tip their hat to Sony, it's not something you'd want to do alone, either way it will stir up a debate in terms of feasibility within the industry.

I'd imagine the big third party publishers would be the driving force and not MS and they would have secured this a long time ago, not less than a year before launch and 2 weeks before console reveal

Thats my speculation. If they are doing this it has been the plan for a long time and for both. They aren't gonna start pushing it this late.

 

[alr1ght]

If this is true for both systems I'll go out on a limb and predict an industry crash.

bingo.

In a down economy, people will only put up with so much for entertainment.

Honestly, as a former GS employee I have long been in favor of "buy new" only. This doesn't effect me in the slightest from one stance. On another front I am glad publishers will be able to profit more.

Sorry used crowd, I don't stand with you, not today.

Used market puts downward pressure on the prices of games. So you will be paying more. People not willing to buy it at $60, will just wait for the $20 bomba.

 

[Uno Venova]

What's more likely?

Microsoft using a random blog to have a controlled leak to tip their hat at Sony or this is a steaming pile of rumor?

I can't believe you're saying there isn't a rumor that Sony is going to pressures used games just type it in Google....

I don't think Sony is doing it anymore than Microsoft but saying there isn't at least a rumor........

Alright man, can you post it? Because I can't find it in google, all I find is patents. If it's not easy to find it's very easy to mistake there being none.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Wow.... Damn, Holy @#%@$%!!!

I definately will just skip the XBox next gen.



I'm also surprised people are stuill freaking out about the second hand games being blocked:

1) It's been on PC since the 90's, outside of shareware
2) Everybody knew it was coming for the next systems, the warning were already there...
3) there is a reason Game Stop has already started closing stores, outside of the merger consolidation.

Admittedly, I mostly buy new games when I can, but I do buy an adequate amount of used games, especially when I see them really cheap or it's hard to find a new copy. it's not even all about the price, but more about the principle I think. Some gamers rely on trading games in to play new ones, renting game or even borrowing games from friends or whoever. If the games were reasonably priced, then it wouldn't be quite as bad, but you just know they are not going to be reasonably priced. $70-$85???? Even $60 would be detrimental to games sales.

 

[Plinko]

Dunno, but that's huge if true. I don't think they'd be that stupid to do that.

Add it to the percent of people without high-speed internet access, and MS has themselves a huge problem.

 

[abadguy]

Microsoft recent history illustrates they ware willing to do that. The company is now run by Bean Counters and lawyers who only care about extracting everylast penny from its consumers, the visionaries are all long gone.

Even if this is the case, you honestly believe they would be dumb enough to turned down potential customers who may not have internet access therefore making their games unplayable for a lot of people and allowing the competition to get ahead of them?

 

[cackhyena]

I don't mind as long as they are more aggressive about console game pricing.

But I guess this doesn't really affect me much anyway. 90% of my gaming is on PC where online only and no used has been law of the land for a while.

They'll be throwing away so much money, counting out people without internet access. Or at the very most, limited broadband that doesn't cut it.

 

[DoubleTap]

I feel strongly that this is not a practice I would support. I think I said this last time it came up, too.

I do look forward to the contortions people are going to go through to justify this, though.

It wouldn't be too difficult to rationalize.

"Same as PC"
"Well Sony will be doing it too so it's OK"
"I don't buy used games anyway"
"My current consoles are always online anyway"

People will still open their wallets and accept this as the new normal.

 

[Neko Mimi Mode]

I probably won't get Durango, but the way people are taking this incredibly dubious rumor as truth without any evidence is really, really strange.

 

[DBT85]

I'll reserve judgement on whether this is the end of the world or not until we hear if Sony are doing the same.

If both are doing it, I can't imagine people will just stop buying these consoles. If only one of them is doing it then it could be a bad sign for them.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

If this is true and if I were Sony, even if I were considering employing similar tech, I would cut it off at the knees right here. Be the company that isn't heading toward draconian gaming prisons.

What are third parties going to do, not port their games?

 

[mentalfloss]

Disgusting, if true.

I used to work at a Gamestop and a Best Buy and, without getting into a comprehensive discussion of class division, all I will just say is that a good number of gamers from less-than-affluent communities and homes will be affected by this.

This is going to hurt the two big players for the next few years and cause a drop in sales.

 

[Delusibeta]

Yup. Guaranteed money from every sale means you can have more aggressive pricing (AppStore and steam sales as an example). I'm sure there will be a second hand market as well, just will need activation codes

In other threads people cry about studios like superbot getting left behind, but in this one complain about the things that would gain profit for these devs.

I welcome this shit. As long as it translates into better initial pricing

It won't. It's going to cause an industry crash (admittedly we were heading to an console game industry crash anyway due to tablets and smartphones killing the market for games more expensive than $5, but anti-used-game DRM will cement this).

 

[Xenon]

I can see online activation being required. But I can't see them making the console online only.


I am also fine with no used game sales. Considering how fucked up things are for the people, programmers, designers, testers, ect.. , who actually make the games. Maybe a less front loaded stream of income can help prevent some of the bullshit things these companies do to try and save money. Im not sure how much it will help but it's better than the money going to Gamestop.

 

[Speedy Blue Dude]

I'll still buy it. Too invested into the Xbox LIve ecosystem to not upgrade without feeling regret.

Might I ask GAF, what exactly is a legitimate reason for hating " No used games"?

I don't see anything wrong from it. Why should people be allowed to fully experince and play a game because they paid $2 to rent them, or their friends let them borrow them? Why should they have the right to play it when they didn't give the Developer/Publisher any money for the good they made?

You guys act as if games only have a set price of New - $60 and Used - $55, and only used copies go down in price. New games take price drops within the first few months. Why don't you guys who want to save money, do what people do on Steam and wait for a sale/price drop in 2 months, and buy the game. Or just support the developer and buy new at launch for $60.

 

[Frankfurter]

Wow.... Damn, Holy @#%@$%!!!

I definately will just skip the XBox next gen.



I'm also surprised people are stuill freaking out about the second hand games being blocked:

1) It's been on PC since the 90's, outside of shareware
2) Everybody knew it was coming for the next systems, the warning were already there...
3) there is a reason Game Stop has already started closing stores, outside of the merger consolidation.

Oh really? Last time I checked my WiiU could play used games just fine.
*WiiU not next gen joke incoming*

I'll still buy it. Too invested into the Xbox LIve ecosystem to not upgrade without feeling regret.

Might I ask GAF, what exactly is a legitimate reason for hating " No used games"?

I don't see anything wrong from it. Why should people be allowed to fully experince and play a game because they paid $2 to rent them, or their friends let them borrow them? Why should they have the right to play it when they didn't give the Developer/Publisher any money for the good they made?

You guys act as if games only have a set price of New - $60 and Used - $55, and only used copies go down in price. New games take price drops within the first few months. Why don't you guys who want to save money, do what people do on Steam and wait for a sale/price drop in 2 months, and buy the game. Or just support the developer and buy new at launch for $60.

Lolwtf? I don't even... seriously wtf.


On the topic of waiting for a sale. Steam is so far superior to console sales that this simply isn't a valid comparison.