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[DopeyFish]

But isn't that the reason why games are much more exoensive than movies and music? It may be a one shot deal but that shot will get them more revenue than any other platform?

I am not arguing but this is a very interesting discussion.

It's part of the reason(prices were higher during snes/n64 era)

But second hand market removes publisher ability to sell at lower prices (see: steam)

The idea is publishers should be getting persistent revenue from their older releases to help fund newer releases but they don't because of the 2nd hand market

This is why gaming has turned from a multigenre beast into a dude bro FPS multiplayer shoot everything industry... Because that's the only thing that would give them profits

No more grim fandango, no more quest, no more true adventures or mysteries - those games sell over years

And now is the best time to do this as games are now aging super well so their ability to resell is high. Get rid of that trashy 2nd hand market. I don't want to walk into a game store and buy a new copy which is an open copy ever again. I don't want to get a game and have its disc shredded.

I want to buy a game knowing full well the people who made the game get their money. These people are the ones who spend 20 hours a day in the last month to finish, and we repay them by depriving them of well earned money?

People not supporting this make me ill

 

[Neuromancer]

It's a good thing Xbox Live never goes down.

Oh, wait...

 

[The_Lump]

But it has bigger jigglyflops, right?

Hmmm. Tough choice.

I'll buy a ps4 either way as it'll be my media player upgrade for the next 10years, a la ps3 I presume.

 

[Mr.Wreckless]

Have you ever used a library? Have you ever watched TV at someone's house? Have you ever eaten food at someone's house? How dare you not pay the producer of that content/product before consuming it.

Ummmm its a little bit different than food. People cant eat the same food over and over unless they are into a very sick fetish.

 

[Mononoke]

a lot of you are overreacting. i don't think it's going to happen, microsoft is not that dumb.

Honestly, I would rather people react and rage out than not say anything at all. Because if the rumors don't end up being true, then so what. People wasted time on a forum blowing off unnecessary steam. But if it ends up being true, then hopefully all the people losing their shit might deter MS to making this decision. I doubt it would (even if ends up being true). But still, I would rather this gets bad press leading up to the reveal.

It's a shit business practice, and I hope gamers keep on top of it. I've seen them bitch/rage out over far less.

And who knows, according to that DMC PR dude, we are to blame for the bad sales of DMC lol.

 

[Raxus]

a lot of you are overreacting. i don't think it's going to happen, microsoft is not that dumb.

So they aren't over-reacting, just reacting appropriately to news that might not be true.

Always online is a dealbreaker for me as well. MY ISP is a pizza and I would hate to lose progress because my internet went stupid for a second. Hell sometimes I can be offline a day. What does it mean if I want to take my Xbox with me?

I want to agree there no way they would do this but it didn't stop Blizzard from making Diablo III always online...

 

[Into]

But if this is true than it's likely Sony is doing this as well. Why are people ignoring this fact? The no PS4 used games topic is literally on the front page.

Because they outright said they would not do this:

Link: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/new...retton-Totally-Opposed-to-Blocking-Used-Games

"I'm totally opposed to blocking used games. I think it's great for the consumer that they can buy those. We have a customer that buys our console late in the cycle, pays less, is looking for value priced games, and I think it would be anti-consumer for us to do that',"

That was about 6 or so months ago. Yes they filed a patent regarding used games, but companies do this all the time, does not mean they actually use the technology.

 

[VegaNine]

LOL at all the people quitting console gaming today. They'll keep coming to GAF every afternoon to speculate and complain and to stay fresh on all the juicy hype. They'll be here on E3 morning, trading contempt in the countdown megathreads as they load the all streams. And then the lights will dim, and in a quick minute all the big new video games will astonish the scowls straight off their poker faces.

Sure, they'll wear their masks back to threads, and keep them on long past November, but after nine months of hype and banter, all of these jaded expatriates are going to growl their way their local Walmarts—glitter-eyed—for the hottest shit they've ever seen, because they couldn't keep their minds off it all year. And when they're standing in line thinking of how much fun they're going to have, and how jealous their friends will be, and how many awesome photos of their of kids they're going to get on Christmas morning, well, DRM is gonna seem like something they can live with. That's why it's the inevitable future.

 

[Plinko]

Back then there also has never been any sale for anything on Steam.

Except we've had years of full-game digital downloads on PS3 and 360 and have seen nowhere near the price drops that we do for used games.

 

[dosh]

In a down economy, people will only put up with so much for entertainment.

I don't know. Do most people care about this kind of stuff? I do, you do, most of GAF probably does. But lambda consumers? Perhaps I'm a bit pessimistic.

 

[Arcteryx]

Have you ever used a library? Have you ever watched TV at someone's house? Have you ever eaten food at someone's house? How dare you not pay the producer of that content/product before consuming it.

Damn man, actual logic being used in this thread 0_0, me gusta

 

[ironcreed]

I am more concerned with having to always be online in order to play. I usually am anyway, but still. It is a bullshit requirement in order to be able to play my games. That is the kind of feature that makes all prior generations superior. In other words, it is going backwards in terms of being user-friendly.

 

[SictorVullivan]

Sounds like a massive opportunity for Sony to have a big advantage over Microsoft with this news.

Now let's just hope that Sony's own anti used games method was just a patent and will stay out of the final console.

But what are the realistic chances that Microsoft would go with an anti used method and Sony wouldn't? Surely that would be a gigantic handicap for Microsoft's console if only one of them used this approach?

 

[Derrick01]

a lot of you are overreacting. i don't think it's going to happen, microsoft is not that dumb.

Windows 8 exists.

I dunno being successful in gaming tends to make people stupid for some reason. It's happened to the other 2 guys in the past too (and arguably right now with Nintendo).

 

[Oddduck]

Next Xbox is sounding kind of annoying. Needing the system to be online at all times? Really?

 

[Future]

That isn't going to be what happens.

With logic like that, you have to be right!

DD sales prove otherwise. Sales can be more frequent when profit is guaranteed.

 

[BrokenEchelon]

Ummmm its a little bit different than food. People cant eat the same food over and over unless they are into a very sick fetish.

You're still not paying the original producer of that product, that's the point of that example. Pick the other media examples for a more accurate juxtaposition of this. Games, movies, books. Whatever. There's a thousand examples.

 

[3rdamention]

and that patent and implementation rumor already look more user friendly than ms solution, no need for always on connection, used game disc go to demo mode, can buy 'online pass' to activate the full game

Yeah, Sony's implementation sounds much more user friendly if they go with that patent. That is how I imagined the Xbox would do it, I posted about it earlier, but I forgot that Sony has that patent.

Considering how Sony got screwed out of Rumble in PS3 because of patent issues, I could see if the "no used games" era begins this generation, Sony would use slightly more expensive online activation passes, which would drive down the price of used games. However, you could still buy used games, you would just need to buy a pass, thus Sony and the Devs profit, at least a little.


I have no idea now how Microsoft is going to implement/integrate this if Sony has the patent, other than always on, always checks, and if you dont buy it used, you dont play it.

 

[Plinko]

LOL at all the people quitting console gaming today. They'll keep coming to GAF every afternoon to speculate and complain and to stay fresh on all the juicy hype. They'll be here on E3 morning, trading contempt in the countdown megathreads as they load the all streams. And then the lights will dim, and in a quick minute all the big new video games will astonish the scowls straight off their poker faces.

Sure, they'll wear their masks back to threads, and keep them on long past November, but after nine months of hype and banter, all of these jaded expatriates are going to growl their way their local Walmarts—glitter-eyed—for the hottest shit they've ever seen, because they couldn't keep their minds off it all year. And when they're standing in line thinking of how much fun they're going to have, and how jealous their friends will be, and how many awesome photos of their of kids they're going to get on Christmas morning, well, DRM is gonna seem like something they can live with. That's why it's the inevitable future.

Wrong. I don't have the money to buy brand new games all the time. My sales of my used games help me get the money to buy new games. If that's gone, so am I when it comes to those systems.

 

[Htown]

I'll still buy it. Too invested into the Xbox LIve ecosystem to not upgrade without feeling regret.

Might I ask GAF, what exactly is a legitimate reason for hating " No used games"?

I don't see anything wrong from it. Why should people be allowed to fully experince and play a game because they paid $2 to rent them, or their friends let them borrow them? Why should they have the right to play it when they didn't give the Developer/Publisher any money for the good they made?

For the same reason that they should be able to experience a book by checking it out for free from a library.

The developer isn't supposed to get money for the used product.

 

[Hoo-doo]

About 6 or so months ago, we got this tidbit about Jack Tretton and their views on used games:



Link: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/new...retton-Totally-Opposed-to-Blocking-Used-Games

Granted things can change

It would be real funny if only Microsoft went with the anti-used games and online connection stuff and Sony and Nintendo just keep doing what they're doing. I doubt it though.

MS has slathered so much anti-consumer shit onto their consoles already that I wouldn't put it past them seriously considering it.

 

[Orayn]

When you guys say "industry crash," you just mean the traditional console model, right? I think mobile gaming will be fine of course, and while PC gaming will still be even more niche than it is now, it will still survive.

I don't even thing it'll be a calamitous crash, just a long, painful dry spell for publishers that focus on big budget games selling millions of units, since they're heavily reliant on an audience that may be shrinking. Smaller publishers who sell games to a niche audience will probably be okay.

 

[Izick]

Because they outright said they would not do this:

Link: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/new...retton-Totally-Opposed-to-Blocking-Used-Games



That was about 6 or so months ago. Yes they filed a patent regarding used games, but companies do this all the time, does not mean they actually use the technology.

They also said that they'd let Microsoft make the first move in regards to next-gen consoles, so just like always, never trust anything the big three say until you actually see it for yourself and it's in your hands.

 

[SmoothBrain]

No second hand games would also mean full price control. Why selling a game for 20 oder 30$ if you can sell it for 60$? There will be no reason to reduce the price.

Well, if this turns out to be true and if Sony jumps the train... I don't, I just can't imagine this situation.

 

[DR3AM]

gs stock dropping

 

[FordGTGuy]

Windows 8 exists.

I dunno being successful in gaming tends to make people stupid for some reason. It's happened to the other 2 guys in the past too (and arguably right now with Nintendo).

Windows 8 wasn't a dumb move it was done on purpose to move ahead of the market before tablets/touchscreen ultrabooks take over. That way when they finally become larger than the PC desktop and non-touchscreen ultrabook market they will have a Full OS actually built for it.

In fact Windows 8 is one of the first times Microsoft hasn't reacted late to a market change and one of their least dumb moves in the long run.

Microsoft comes late to the internet party

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/802887.stm

The above was dumb.

 

[vg260]

Bone headed move by MS if true. Not only does it block used game sales, kills game rentals, and it blocks the simple act of bringing your game over to a friends house to play there. Hope there's a big stink over this to get MS to reconsider.

Maybe you'll just have to sign in to authenticate, kinda like how games on USB drives work now.

 

[mentalfloss]

Because they outright said they would not do this:

Link: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/new...retton-Totally-Opposed-to-Blocking-Used-Games



That was about 6 or so months ago. Yes they filed a patent regarding used games, but companies do this all the time, does not mean they actually use the technology.

Tretton's opinion isn't significant.

Sony Japan wants used games to go and they will be the ones making the ultimate decision.

 

[bishopcruz]

I'll still buy it. Too invested into the Xbox LIve ecosystem to not upgrade without feeling regret.

Might I ask GAF, what exactly is a legitimate reason for hating " No used games"?

I don't see anything wrong from it. Why should people be allowed to fully experince and play a game because they paid $2 to rent them, or their friends let them borrow them? Why should they have the right to play it when they didn't give the Developer/Publisher any money for the good they made?

You guys act as if games only have a set price of New - $60 and Used - $55, and only used copies go down in price. New games take price drops within the first few months. Why don't you guys who want to save money, do what people do on Steam and wait for a sale/price drop in 2 months, and buy the game. Or just support the developer and buy new at launch for $60.

1. The ability to not lend games to a friend
2. Not having control over what I have purchased.
3. The overall decrease in dollars spent in the gaming industry

To name but a few.

The used game market isn't a zero sum game. I hate it when people treat it like it is.

 

[Mononoke]

It's part of the reason(prices were higher during snes/n64 era)

But second hand market removes publisher ability to sell at lower prices (see: steam)

The idea is publishers should be getting persistent revenue from their older releases to help fund newer releases but they don't because of the 2nd hand market

This is why gaming has turned from a multigenre beast into a dude bro FPS multiplayer shoot everything industry... Because that's the only thing that would give them profits

No more grim fandango, no more quest, no more true adventures or mysteries - those games sell over years

And now is the best time to do this as games are now aging super well so their ability to resell is high. Get rid of that trashy 2nd hand market. I don't want to walk into a game store and buy a new copy which is an open copy ever again. I don't want to get a game and have its disc shredded.

I want to buy a game knowing full well the people who made the game get their money. These people are the ones who spend 20 hours a day in the last month to finish, and we repay them by depriving them of well earned money?

People not supporting this make me ill

My issue more has to do with the always online BS. Because what if their servers go down? What if, there is a time where I don't have access to internet (it happens). That to me, is total BS/restrictive.

In terms of your argument about 2nd hand games, as a consumer I would say - okay, but how about we start managing the prices a little better, if we are cutting out the trade in market. The problem is, places like Steam (where publishers control the price) - never happens in the Console market. Or at least it's very rare. Are you saying that's 100% the fault of 2nd hand games? So if the next gen removes 2nd hand games, then we will start to see Steam like sales on Xbox?

Actually, fuck this. If I buy a game, I want to be able to share it with my brother. If another family member buys a 2nd xbox (which is what always happens), I want the ability to share m games. This sucks.

 

[abadguy]

Yeah. Totally.

Not seeing what any of this has to do with a console always being online, despite them never doing anything like this in the past, but ok.

 

[plutoknight]

NOT a fan of always-online console. I live in an area where my Internet connection is..uh..less than stellar. I couldn't imagine what would happen if I couldn't boot up my Xbox to play some offline action game or something because my INTERNET was down.

(I mean, STEAM doesn't even restrict me like that...)

 

[ironcreed]

Because they outright said they would not do this:

Link: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/new...retton-Totally-Opposed-to-Blocking-Used-Games

Damn, that one slid by me as well. Good show, Sony.

 

[Dunan]

Might I ask GAF, what exactly is a legitimate reason for hating " No used games"?

I don't see anything wrong from it. Why should people be allowed to fully experince and play a game because they paid $2 to rent them, or their friends let them borrow them? Why should they have the right to play it when they didn't give the Developer/Publisher any money for the good they made?

The first buyer of the game, in paying the retail price, paid the developer's share on behalf of any and all future users of that disc, whether the number of future users is zero (the initial buyer keeps it forever) or a thousand.

And how would you propose that people just coming into gaming in the future acquire older, out-of-print titles? How about when a publisher goes bankrupt? The endgame (three decades in the future, say) of a "no-used-games" system is hundreds of thousands of worthless plastic discs, in the possession of people who no longer want to use them, and inaccessible to people who do want to use them but are not allowed to.

 

[Takuya]

gs stock dropping

Microsoft one should follow suit.

 

[Future]

No second hand games would also mean full price control. Why selling a game for 20 oder 30$ if you can sell it for 60$? There will be no reason to reduce the price.

Well, if this turns out to be true and if Sony jumps the train... I don't, I just can't imagine this situation.

With that logic there would be no steam sales. There is MORE reason to reduce pricing because of the sales it will generate. Do you think prices are reduced merely because of used games???

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Yeah, eat a dick MS.

 

[BrokenEchelon]

Windows 8 wasn't a dumb move it was done on purpose to move ahead of the market before tablets/touchscreen ultrabooks take over. That way when they finally become larger than the PC desktop and non-touchscreen ultrabook market they will have a Full OS actually built for it.

Windows 8 Tablets are flying off the shelves bro. Flying.

Windows Phone 8 also surpassed iOS and Android combined by 1,000,000,000% two years ago already.

Windows 8 is so successful that I cry tears of joy whenever I think of the miracle that Microsoft bestowed upon the world.

 

[pelican]

This would hurt leaching retailers with their poor trade in values, and uncompetitive pre-owned prices I have no problem in seeing GAME having to adjust their business plan. Currently their new release and range software offering is exceptionally poor due to low stock holding. I can't talk about Gamestop as its been a couple of years since I have been over to the States. Guess I'll find out when I hit up the US of A in September.

For me personally this has little impact. I have 24 meg broadband and all my gear is connected online. I buy few second hand games, and only ever trade in if a game is completely wank. The majority of my software purchases over the past couple of years have been on the PC via Steam or Origin. So I am quite comfortable with no 2nd hand titles. The only way it would effect me is I like to rent games which allows me to check out stuff that I am interested in seeing, but not buying. I would miss this.

But...

I can perfectly understand why many GAF would oppose this. Not everyone has great broadband in the US or UK, and many gamers fund buying new games via selling old titles or rent them. The industry suits need to realise something. Not everyone has a lot of money to spend. And those who are comfortable with their disposable income don't necessarily want to dedicate it all to funding this hobby. There is a danger of greed resulting in the industry biting off its nose to spite its face.

If this is indeed happening then the policy has the backing of the 3rd party publishers (no surprise they hate gamestop, game etc) which would lead me to believe that Sony are also going to operate a similar policy. If MS do this, and Sony don't then they are shooting themselves in the foot.

 

[lazer_bean]

I'll still buy it. Too invested into the Xbox LIve ecosystem to not upgrade without feeling regret.

You guys act as if games only have a set price of New - $60 and Used - $55, and only used copies go down in price. New games take price drops within the first few months. Why don't you guys who want to save money, do what people do on Steam and wait for a sale/price drop in 2 months, and buy the game. Or just support the developer and buy new at launch for $60.

do you think people who dont buy new do it just to piss off the devs/pubs or what ?

probably a lot of people who buy second hand dont do it to save money but because they cant spend more

 

[Uno Venova]

Really? I've already done that in previous posts....



How are these not rumors?

I did have a problem, my search terms were different. Besides Kotaku, most of those articles are either about the patent which I already talked about, or responding to the same Kotaku rumor.

If it's just one rumor I don't know why it's so hard for you to believe I didn't find it. But thanks for posting anyway.

 

[8sanders]

If true I'm out. Fuck that anti-consumer shit.

 

[Currygan]

Why do people think this is so crazy and outrageous when everyone buys PC games with these restrictions everyday?

you don't see the difference?
MUCH cheaper games, first, not every game telling you to stay always connected, second

 

[Earthpainting]

For some reason my brain read the title as 'always Kinect' and had a little heart attack.

 

[SirIgbyCeaser]

Hey, PS+ is a game licensing service. We might have more of those next gen. Offered by individual publishers and ect.. paying 10 euros a month for new releases and old, vs 60 per game. Might work out in publisher's favor.

It can happen.

 

[vg260]

For the same reason that they should be able to experience a book by checking it out for free from a library.

Just to play devil's advocate here, don't libraries kinda suck for authors, especially if that's what they do for a living?

I understand the comparison, but second hand borrowing has always really hurt content creators if you think about it. Maybe if people had friends who were musicians, writers, or game developers, who create content for a living they might see it a little differently.

 

[Cronq]

Just want to clear something up for console gamers:

Steam does not require an Internet connection to play your games. It has an off-line mode that works just fine.

Let's lay off the hyperbole as it makes any discussion less intelligent.

 

[The_Darkest_Red]

I can't wait to see how Gamestop responds to this news.

 

[Marleyman]

Games should be priced around 35-40 dollars if so.

 

[Mr.Wreckless]

You're still not paying the original producer of that product, that's the point of that example. Pick the other media examples for a more accurate juxtaposition of this. Games, movies, books. Whatever. There's a thousand examples.

Its an absolutely terrible example and isnt applicable at all. If you buy 8 pieces of chicken then only 8 pieces of chicken can be consumed and once its eaten you have to buy more chicken. The producer doesnt care who eats the chicken, you paid for 8 pieces and 8 pieces were consumed. A single game can be rented over and over and over, consumed numerous times.