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[3rdamention]

MS got away with an entire generation of charging a monthly fee for what is basically a free service everywhere else. While I personally hope that there would be a huge backlash, I feel the reality of the situation is that there will be a lot of noise at first, but then consumers will mostly just adapt as they always have, with reduced rights and less benefits, just to play the casual entertainment they want.



Are we certain it's not going to be the same this time wrong? Doesn't seem like Sony learned much from the PSP -> Vita transition imo. That's the main concern I feel. Any goodwill Sony has always seems to be evaporated by poor business decisions or a shit lineup.

Sony will not be starting a year late to begin with, so it will be different.

 

[Garou]

Here's the major difference:

We've NEVER seen any hint of anything close to something like a Steam sale on consoles. Never.

Back then there also has never been any sale for anything on Steam.

 

[Takuya]

Oh really? Last time I checked my WiiU could play used games just fine.
*WiiU not next gen joke incoming*

That doesn't really make it next-gen.

 

[abadguy]

I probably won't get Durango, but the way people are taking this incredibly dubious rumor as truth without any evidence is really, really strange.

Many people really want to believe it. No matter how silly it is.

 

[Tagg9]

Maybe the online-only part is to combat piracy or something?

 

[VariantX]

Bone headed move by MS if true. Not only does it block used game sales, kills game rentals, and it blocks the simple act of bringing your game over to a friends house to play there. Hope there's a big stink over this to get MS to reconsider.

 

[dmr87]

I personally don't care since I don't buy used games, but it will be fun to witness the meltdown if all this is true.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I'll still buy it. Too invested into the Xbox LIve ecosystem to not upgrade without feeling regret.

Might I ask GAF, what exactly is a legitimate reason for hating " No used games"?

I don't see anything wrong from it. Why should people be allowed to fully experince and play a game because they paid $2 to rent them, or their friends let them borrow them? Why should they have the right to play it when they didn't give the Developer/Publisher any money for the good they made?

You guys act as if games only have a set price of New - $60 and Used - $55, and only used copies go down in price. New games take price drops within the first few months. Why don't you guys who want to save money, do what people do on Steam and wait for a sale/price drop in 2 months, and buy the game. Or just support the developer and buy new at launch for $60.

You realize publishers will have far fewer reasons for discounting games if there's no used market to drive prices down, right?

 

[Into]

About 6 or so months ago, we got this tidbit about Jack Tretton and their views on used games:

Sony's Jack Tretton "Totally Opposed to Blocking Used Games"
"He said, 'for the record, I'm totally opposed to blocking used games. I think it's great for the consumer that they can buy those. We have a customer that buys our console late in the cycle, pays less, is looking for value priced games, and I think it would be anti-consumer for us to do that',"

Link: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/new...retton-Totally-Opposed-to-Blocking-Used-Games

Granted things can change

 

[BrokenEchelon]

I'll still buy it. Too invested into the Xbox LIve ecosystem to not upgrade without feeling regret.

Might I ask GAF, what exactly is a legitimate reason for hating " No used games"?

I don't see anything wrong from it. Why should people be allowed to fully experince and play a game because they paid $2 to rent them, or their friends let them borrow them? Why should they have the right to play it when they didn't give the Developer/Publisher any money for the good they made?

You guys act as if games only have a set price of New - $60 and Used - $55, and only used copies go down in price. New games take price drops within the first few months. Why don't you guys who want to save money, do what people do on Steam and wait for a sale/price drop in 2 months, and buy the game. Or just support the developer and buy new at launch for $60.

Have you ever used a library? Have you ever watched TV at someone's house? Have you ever eaten food at someone's house? How dare you not pay the producer of that content/product before consuming it.

 

[Forkball]

No way will it always be online. What's the point of that? Microsoft can't be that dumb.

 

[Boss Man]

If this is true and if I were Sony, even if I were considering employing similar tech, I would cut it off at the knees right here. Be the company that isn't heading toward draconian gaming prisons.

What are third parties going to do, not port their games?

As a publisher, you'd have to ask whether or not it's worth it to miss out on the revenue in order to try and block Sony out and force the industry to fall in line.

So it would be on a publisher-by-publisher basis, and largely dependent on what the PS4's attach rate looks like (maybe even for particular types of games).

 

[FonkyByNature]

I never cared for used games as i very rarely buy used. But the always online thing bother me big time ! Sometimes i take my consoles to my country house where there's no internet.

Definitly not touching the next xbox if that's true. But, i don't think Microsoft are that stupid to make it happen. They'll adapt and please the consumers if their business is in danger.

 

[Batman]

I can see online activation being required. But I can't see them making the console online only.

Online only definitely won't happen but each disc tied to a single account is most likely going to happen. I understand where these companies are talking about when they only see money once from each game disc but over many years Gamestop can easily make hundreds off of one, no matter what it does hurt everybody who works on the games.

 

[Izick]

When you guys say "industry crash," you just mean the traditional console model, right? I think mobile gaming will be fine of course, and while PC gaming will still be even more niche than it is now, it will still survive.

 

[Future]

It won't. It's going to cause an industry crash (admittedly we were heading to an console game industry crash anyway due to tablets and smartphones killing the market for games more expensive than $5, but anti-used-game DRM will cement this).

You cite no evidence that this is so. This reminds me of that thread awhile back where people were pissed at activision or something for having no cod servers and threatening to boycot, and the game went on to have record breaking sales. If you want the games you will buy them. No principle will stop you. Price may delay you, though

PC market, app stores and the like PROVE it can be done as long as pricing is reasonable. Games will need to have a wider range in pricing for this to work for most devs

 

[Petrie]

I'll still buy it. Too invested into the Xbox LIve ecosystem to not upgrade without feeling regret.

Might I ask GAF, what exactly is a legitimate reason for hating " No used games"?

I don't see anything wrong from it. Why should people be allowed to fully experince and play a game because they paid $2 to rent them, or their friends let them borrow them? Why should they have the right to play it when they didn't give the Developer/Publisher any money for the good they made?

You guys act as if games only have a set price of New - $60 and Used - $55, and only used copies go down in price. New games take price drops within the first few months. Why don't you guys who want to save money, do what people do on Steam and wait for a sale/price drop in 2 months, and buy the game. Or just support the developer and buy new at launch for $60.

You really aren't considering just how much trade-ins and such fuel new game sales.

People trade in a stack of games to get the new hotness. That's why GS offers so many promotions on pre-orders for whatever the latest is.

This is going to hurt new sales big time.

 

[Luthos]

Second hand game stuff doesn't bother me. I only buy new. Always online is the part that gets me. That shit would suck. It's not about always having internet. It's about your provider being shit, and maybe it goes out or something. (and in some places, it isn't so easy to switch providers)

 

[GitarooMan]

Here's the major difference:

We've NEVER seen any hint of anything close to something like a Steam sale on consoles. Never.

Yeah, but there are retail console game sales and clearances that are similar. If they were to stop selling games at retail this would definitely be a concern. You can sort of see this with Vita, where retailers don't really give a shit and rarely put the games on sale (although still occasionally). But for more popular systems, I suspect that Best Buy, Target, Wal-Mart, Amazon, Gamestop.com, Newegg, etc. will still have sales.

 

[roddur]

a lot of you are overreacting. i don't think it's going to happen, microsoft is not that dumb.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

I'll still buy it. Too invested into the Xbox LIve ecosystem to not upgrade without feeling regret.

Might I ask GAF, what exactly is a legitimate reason for hating " No used games"?

I don't see anything wrong from it. Why should people be allowed to fully experince and play a game because they paid $2 to rent them, or their friends let them borrow them? Why should they have the right to play it when they didn't give the Developer/Publisher any money for the good they made?

You guys act as if games only have a set price of New - $60 and Used - $55, and only used copies go down in price. New games take price drops within the first few months. Why don't you guys who want to save money, do what people do on Steam and wait for a sale/price drop in 2 months, and buy the game. Or just support the developer and buy new at launch for $60.

Mother if god, the ignorance here is astounding. I'm not going to explain why, because frankly it shouldn't have to be bloody explained.

 

[Foffy]

The general populous only have limited amount of money they are willing to spend on gaming and everybody is fighting for a piece if that wallet share. By disabling the resale of games a portion of that wallet share is simply moved from the likes of Gamespot into the pockets of publishers and developers. This will either afford the publisher the option of more aggressive pricing models (similar to Steam sales etc) or the extra money will bolster shareholder confidence in game development and we'll see more investment - which would be a welcoming side effect given the number of studio closures recently.

This would also eliminate the irritating trend of developers responsible for outstanding single player games wasting time shoe-horning a lacklustre multiplayer mode in an effort to prevent the resale of a new game. Every new player directly contributes something back to the publisher.

I welcome this shit. As long as it translates into better initial pricing

What dimension did you two just hop out of? You're tapping into the wrong reality for that way of thinking. You are out of your mind if you think companies don't want to milk the premium "take as much as you can from the consumer" ideal of pricing and replace it with more fluctuating prices. There is no evidence that what you two hope for would even be a reality on a platform without second-hand sales, let alone the fixing of the awful emphasis on multiplayer over single player, even for single player franchises.

The best thing I can say is you guys seem awfully hopeful in these types of companies, who are the exact same offenders who want to gouge you for as much money as they can get away with. What you want and what they want are very different things.

I'll still buy it. Too invested into the Xbox LIve ecosystem to not upgrade without feeling regret.

Might I ask GAF, what exactly is a legitimate reason for hating " No used games"?

I don't see anything wrong from it. Why should people be allowed to fully experince and play a game because they paid $2 to rent them, or their friends let them borrow them? Why should they have the right to play it when they didn't give the Developer/Publisher any money for the good they made?

You guys act as if games only have a set price of New - $60 and Used - $55, and only used copies go down in price. New games take price drops within the first few months. Why don't you guys who want to save money, do what people do on Steam and wait for a sale/price drop in 2 months, and buy the game. Or just support the developer and buy new at launch for $60.

My retort is simple. There are games that are no longer in print. If only new games work, what in the fuck am I to do? Am I supposed to hope the used product has a means of an additional fee to activate it and have it work for me, or should I be the foolish consumer this industry wants me to be and buy everything at launch at full price?

 

[sflufan]

Right now the Edge editors are slapping themselves on the back for all the clicks they're getting for this rumor from "sources."

 

[Dunan]

The PS4 rumor has them tagging discs with your ID, which washes out used game sales but at least doesn't require always online.

If they try that, I could see people setting up an account for each game they buy, and then selling the game onward with the username and password included. You'd have a separate account for every non-digitally-purchased game, but that hassle would be a small price to pay for retaining the right to sell off goods you no longer need.

I wonder, given how Sony handled the Vita, if they would again try to limit the number of possible users. Doubtful on a console, but who knows?

Trophies would become meaningless, but I'm confident that people will value the first sale doctrine more than their trophy lists.

 

[TheCongressman1]

If true I'm going over to Sony. No used games would be so absolutely terrible. It'll be PC, PS4, and WiiU for me.

Although really, how likely is this to be true?

 

[sublimit]

I don't see anything wrong from it. Why should people be allowed to fully experince and play a game because they paid $2 to rent them, or their friends let them borrow them? Why should they have the right to play it when they didn't give the Developer/Publisher any money for the good they made?

Yeah and while we're at that why should people have the right to sell a car to buy another one that is new?Or a house?or whatever?

How dare they think they have the right to make money out from something they have already bought??

 

[mrwilt]

If this is true, Microsoft and Sony are going to have to train the sales people in the stores to let the consumer know that an internet connection is required to play games. Otherwise, it's going to be a nightmare for returned systems. Also, how busy is customer support going to be with people calling in about why games aren't working on their system. What a mess.

 

[ironcreed]

Has to always be online to play? What if my internet goes down, then I can't play games? No thanks. That is a de-volution, not evolution. No used games? If true, then I think that Sony will probably be doing something similar, which is sad.

 

[Izick]

Wow, if true I'm going over to Sony. No used games would be so absolutely terrible.

It'll be PC, PS4, and WiiU for me.

But if this is true than it's likely Sony is doing this as well. Why are people ignoring this fact? The no PS4 used games topic is literally on the front page.

 

[Durock]

Well what do you all expect to happen? Development costs are steadily increasing and pre-owned games are helping to prevent publishers/developers from receiving a significant amount of the profits they need to continue developing games.

I get it. It's a tough global economy right now and people want to save money wherever they can, but things can't also be expected to continue now as they have been. It's either the publishers/devs do whatever they can to maximize their profits, or stop developing the games that we all enjoy playing. If not, then take a look at your smart phone and embrace the inevitable future of mobile gaming where people still complain about spending a $1 for a game. Is that the future you want? I don't.

So to me, if Microsoft and Sony blocking pre-owned games means I get more games to play and enjoy, then I welcome this change.

 

[Fox Mulder]

a lot of you are overreacting. i don't think it's going to happen, microsoft is not that dumb.

MS has made some stupid decisions the last few years. Plus there's the third console curse.

 

[Ysiadmihi]

a lot of you are overreacting. i don't think it's going to happen, microsoft is not that dumb.

It's not Microsoft who has to be dumb in order for things like this to succeed.

 

[Shalashaska161]

Wasn't planning on buying a Durango anyways, but if the no used games thing is true, and the console industry followed the PC/Steam pricing model for games I wouldn't be overly upset. That's the only way they'd get me on board though.

The always online thing is fucked though. Hey, my internet connections out, guess I can't play my single player Xbox game!

 

[Burekma]

If they offset the lack of used with more aggressive pricing like it's on the PC, then I honestly don't care. When I can pay €10 for AAA games ~3 months after release, I kinda don't give a shit if I can't resell it.

If they don't, then I wish them good luck, as they certainly won't see any of my money. Paying €30+ a pop without the ability to recoup costs once I'm finished with the SP? Yeah, no. Used market was the main reason why I tolerated the high console game prices to begin with. I don't shit money.

 

[dragonbane]

If they both do it, they should lower the prize of games. Otherwise PC only for me.

I really hope Sony doesn't do this though. They don't always use their patents.

 

[cookie-monster]

When you buy games on your PC in this manner you can be almost completely certain that you will be able to play them on your next PC, and the PC after, and so on.

Backwards compatibility on consoles is normally an exception, so for this reason I think it's a terrible idea.

Not to mention that I refuse to pay any money, subsidised or not, for Kinect.

 

[tapedeck]

About 6 or so months ago, we got this tidbit about Jack Tretton and their views on used games:



Link: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/new...retton-Totally-Opposed-to-Blocking-Used-Games

Granted things can change

Possibly dumb question...how much say does Tretton actually have in PS4's functionality?

 

[Bizazedo]

I love how just waiting for the new game to drop in price isn't even remotely considered as an alternative.

 

[abadguy]

Mother if god, the ignorance here is astounding. I'm not going to explain why, because frankly it shouldn't have to be bloody explained.

Ignorance of people taking rumors as fact is also astounding and there is a lot of it in this thread.

MS has made some stupid decisions the last few years. Plus there's the third console curse.

Nothing as stupid as this would be, but as i said people want to believe it so in their minds it's true.

 

[Eusis]

When you guys say "industry crash," you just mean the traditional console model, right? I think mobile gaming will be fine of course, and while PC gaming will still be even more niche than it is now, it will still survive.

This is how it went last time. PC kicked around, arcades were still around I believe. It would just mean the console AAA business gets fucked up, and maybe just Western development too rather than everything. I don't believe the crash can do as much potential long term damage as the 1983 crash simply because so many have grown up gaming, whereas then, well, console gaming was about as old as smartphone gaming is now.

 

[mentalfloss]

About 6 or so months ago, we got this tidbit about Jack Tretton and their views on used games:



Link: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/new...retton-Totally-Opposed-to-Blocking-Used-Games

Granted things can change

Read the entire article.

Sony Japan disagrees with Trenton and they are the ones calling the shots.

 

[Future]

You really aren't considering just how much trade-ins and such fuel new game sales.

People trade in a stack of games to get the new hotness. That's why GS offers so many promotions on pre-orders for whatever the latest is.

This is going to hurt new sales big time.

They fuel new sales mainly cuz the prices are expensive. If the new game was already $30 you may not be as compelled to buy used.

Doesn't everyone bitch about $60 games? It's changes like this that can lower these prices

 

[BrokenEchelon]

a lot of you are overreacting. i don't think it's going to happen, microsoft is not that dumb.

Yeah. Totally.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Alright man, can you post it? Because I can't find it in google, all I find is patents. If it's not easy to find it's very easy to mistake there being none.

Really? I've already done that in previous posts....

Sony Japan patents NFC tech to suppress second hand game sales – report

http://www.vg247.com/2013/01/03/son...ch-to-suppress-second-hand-game-sales-report/

SO LONG, USED GAMES

http://kotaku.com/5896996/the-next-playstation-is-called-orbis-sources-say-here-are-the-details

Pachter: Orbis/PS4 to suffer if it blocks used games

http://www.destructoid.com/pachter-orbis-ps4-to-suffer-if-it-blocks-used-games-224818.phtml

No Backwards Compatibility or Used Games

http://whatculture.com/gaming/new-ps4-rumors-no-backwards-compatibility-or-used-games.php

PS4, Xbox 720 'would suffer' if they block used games

http://www.gamezone.com/products/pl...box-720-would-suffer-if-they-block-used-games

If I can randomly find these articles by looking up "PS4 no used games" I'm sure you shouldn't have a problem.

How are these not rumors?

 

[Cornbread78]

Admittedly, I mostly buy new games when I can, but I do buy an adequate amount of used games, especially when I see them really cheap or it's hard to find a new copy. it's not even all about the price, but more about the principle I think. Some gamers rely on trading games in to play new ones, renting game or even borrowing games from friends or whoever. If the games were reasonably priced, then it wouldn't be quite as bad, but you just know they are not going to be reasonably priced. $70-$85???? Even $60 would be detrimental to games sales.

I'm with you 100%, I love buying cheap games from GS years after release. I've been doing it for years. I just can't claim ignorance to what has been building up for awhile now. It really does suck and the companies better start building off of Steam's model with their sales to give consumers some releif..

 

[GulAtiCa]

I'll still buy it. Too invested into the Xbox LIve ecosystem to not upgrade without feeling regret.

Might I ask GAF, what exactly is a legitimate reason for hating " No used games"?

I don't see anything wrong from it. Why should people be allowed to fully experince and play a game because they paid $2 to rent them, or their friends let them borrow them? Why should they have the right to play it when they didn't give the Developer/Publisher any money for the good they made?

You guys act as if games only have a set price of New - $60 and Used - $55, and only used copies go down in price. New games take price drops within the first few months. Why don't you guys who want to save money, do what people do on Steam and wait for a sale/price drop in 2 months, and buy the game. Or just support the developer and buy new at launch for $60.

If the game is a few years old, I'd rather buy it for $10 used then at $40 or above new...

 

[RedNumberFive]

As if the poor build quality of their hardware, and having to pay for the nothingness of Xbox Live wasn't already a deterrent for next gen.

 

[Marleyman]

But if this is true than it's likely Sony is doing this as well. Why are people ignoring this fact? The no PS4 used games topic is literally on the front page.

.

 

[Tagg9]

Possibly dumb question...how much say does Tretton actually have in PS4's functionality?

Obviously zero, but he can't publicly renounce features that end up in the device.

 

[Petrie]

They fuel new sales mainly cuz the prices are expensive. If the new game was already $30 you may not be as compelled to buy used.

Doesn't everyone bitch about $60 games? It's changes like this that can lower these prices

That isn't going to be what happens.