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EDGE: The next Xbox: Always online, no second-hand games, 50GB Blu-ray and new kinect

This is one of the reasons pc gaming is doing shitty.

ITT: console fanboys who blatantly still believe in the "PC gaming is dying" bullshit from 2005, unaware of how competition in the digital distribution market has decreased prices (hell, I don't think anyone has mentioned Humble Bundle or Indie Royale yet), and as a result sales (and revenue) from PC games have increased. The problem with consoles following suit is a lack of competition for digitally distributed stuff means sales are fewer and prices are higher, while on the retail front bombas happen to nearly all games as fewer people buy the games full price due to the removal of any way to resell them.
 

Takuya

Banned
Except for the additional opportunities to sell DLC and other products with no physical overhead?

Did something change and Microsoft and Sony no longer get cuts from that?

That's assuming that all the physical copies that they've already shipped out get sold, if they aren't then they've already taken a hit by having them shipped out and consumers deciding to go used versus buying new is worse for them.
 

Raxus

Member
Eh, I typically get 30-45 for games I buy and sell within the same month.

It has becoming scary easy to flip games. It is a big part of why the used market is booming and developers are tanking. The only long term success I can think of this gen was Borderlands. Everything else depending on the first month of sales.

Borderlands also had a gold edition and strong DLC support so yeah.
 

Future

Member
Its going to be even worse if this is true. Whose going to want to take a risk on a new ip if you can't even get rid of the game if you don't like it?

Hate to reiterate, but people don't want to take those risks now dude.

I'd actually be surprised if all this is true, but I'm all for giving more price control to devs. Devs know that the majority of sales come from the initial launch window. After that, they have to essentially compete with themselves at a price that will always be lower than whatever they offer, even if only by a few dollars. So gotta go $60 to get as much money as you can

Controlling the used market a bit means more potential legs and viability of future sales. They can control their own price drops, get more profit, take more risks
 

Gbraga

Member
gaber2utt.gif
 
People that are saying they won't buy the system because they only purchase their games second hand crack me up.

You are the exact people they are trying to get rid of
 

Ding-Ding

Member
Developers are going out of business now

Developers are always going to risk going out of business, it wont matter if the 2nd hand market is stopped.

At the end of the day, if a game is obviously shit, it wont sell regardless if its 1st or 2nd hand.

The easiest way to avoid going out of business, make better bloody games
 

Kusagari

Member
You're right - but what is missing is how much these customers are worth to Microsoft, vs the calculation they must have made about having their entire customer base online. It may just be that ruthless. People who aren't online can't take advantage of Live or anything DD that MS might do, they obviously don't spend as much money on average.

The always online thing does not blend at all with MS continuing to push Kinect. They've got to know that the casuals who might buy it for Kinect are probably less likely to be online or use Live.
 

itsgreen

Member
Remember when you could borrow games from friends... good times...

God bless the fact that if your content provider, be it Sony or MS, says we don't support this platform anymore, you can not play the games you have bought.
 

Kai Dracon

Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
People comparing this to the way PC and mobile already is with digital downloads must remember:

* PC ecosystem offers truly flexible pricing and many non-DRM alternatives like GOG.com
* Insane Steam sales rather than the trickle of limp "sales" you typically see on Xbox Live. (Though PSN, to be fair, has some good sales regularly and good PS+ sales.)
* Platforms with far better continuity and backwards compatibility - you know that your digital purchases will almost always be usable moving forward into the future. Whether you build a new PC, or upgrade to a newer smart phone or tablet model.
* Superior PC services and extra values such as mod support, steam workshop, etc.

... and, to be blunt about it, if digital services on PC that have DRM ever go toes-up and screw you over, odds are that those dirty pirates have your back with unlocked versions of the software you purchased floating around the internet.

Game consoles have always been predicated on a different value proposition. It used to be that the hardware itself was the "DRM". You couldn't take a purchased game off the specific version of that hardware platform, or build your own custom console to spec. But this was offset by the ability to trade, sell, or even give away copies of games to others. (And acquire traded, used, or gifted games yourself in turn.)

Consoles were also offset by their simplicity, ease of use, and a good proposition of fixed hardware + low entry price providing a stable experience over a set number of years for not really much money.

The problem with trying to turn consoles into PCs in the area of DRM and digital ecosystem is that it's difficult to provide all the benefits to offset the restrictions. This even before getting into the fact that the leading console game industry and publishers are desperately trying to continue justifying their bloated practices. Which means passing more and more of the cost along to the end customer, rather than using stuff like DRM to lower prices on new products.

Developers are always going to risk going out of business, it wont matter if the 2nd hand market is stopped.

At the end of the day, if a game is obviously shit, it wont sell regardless if its 1st or 2nd hand.

The easiest way to avoid going out of business, make better bloody games

I look at fallen flags like Bizarre Creations.

I look at companies like EA, still in business publishing stuff like Dead Space 3, and whatever shit Bioware pushed out next.

And see it is not that simple.
 

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
This is a pretty damn big thread for what is essentially a rehash of select rumours that have been swirling about the new Xbox forever.
 

Huff

Banned
Guys, 3rd parties already know about this, if it is happening.

This isn't going to effect 3rd party titles moving to the wiiu at all.

So some of yal need to not be so excited
 

Corto

Member
Xbox matching steam sales and general DD costs?

i laughed

Exactly. People saying that PC does the same and it's fine are making a huge mistake comparing both ecosystems. In a console there is only one store, one gate keeper that controls customer relations. With PC, a customer can buy games directly from the developer, directly from the publisher store, or from third party stores. There's competition and prices quickly get to such low amounts that used games would have no benefit at all to the end user.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I'm getting kind of sick of the "rumors over patents" stuff in this thread.

The reason this takes precedence is because it is the most recent rumor from a VERY reliable source (EDGE).

We've had nothing like that about Sony's system recently.
 
After listening to Windows Weekly and the rest of the TWIT network long enough I know Microsoft does not comment on rumors.

They actually do comment on rumours: if they explicitly say "this is incorrect", then you can conclude that the rumour is incorrect. If they don't attempt to deny it, then you can conclude that the rumour has a grain of truth in it.
 

Trevelyon

Member
Um, don't really think of EDGE-online has one of those over the top click-bait rumour mongering sites. But I'm not sure why they wouldn't preface the piece with a 'rumoured' title or at least finesse their words more, as not to be so matter of fact about it.

They knew the shit storm this would ignite, just seems completely slapdash and tacky. Not usually what I think of, when I think EDGE.
 

KissVibes

Banned
Did we hear this like 10 years ago with the PlayStation 3? The climate isn't right yet and I don't think Microsoft or Sony will do it, although I wouldn't be surprised that if you bought the game new you got a code for a digital copy or if every game was required to have content you could only get if you bought new.
 

jamsy

Member
No one is forcing you to deal with Gamestop. When you're done playing a game, sell it privately, or on Craigslist, or Amazon, or eBay.

It seems like roughly half the anti-used crowd's arguments center on how much the arguer hates Gamestop. Evidently Gamestop is so evil that consumer rights and the first sale doctrine can burn in the lava pits of hell just as long as Gamestop is tossed into the flames along with them.

Honestly, how much easier is it for the average person to go to a local B&M store than to deal with craigslist/ebay/what have you? That's why they're raking in so much money from used games, and I just can't be OK with that.

I personally don't care about selling my used games (nor do I really have gamer friends from whom I can borrow stuff), so for me this is a non-issue.
 
So if your cable company is on the fritz, so goes your ability to pkay games?
If you move and wait days for the cable company to setup intetnet/cable... Yoy can't play for days?

Oh my
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
You're right - but what is missing is how much these customers are worth to Microsoft, vs the calculation they must have made about having their entire customer base online. It may just be that ruthless. People who aren't online can't take advantage of Live or anything DD that MS might do, they obviously don't spend as much money on average.

But that's incredibly short-sighted, as it begins to eliminate userbase that could expand in the future based on word of mouth. If anything, the word of mouth for this is going to be extremely negative.
 

abadguy

Banned
I'm getting kind of sick of the "rumors over patents" stuff in this thread.

The reason this takes precedence is because it is the most recent rumor from a VERY reliable source (EDGE).

We've had nothing like that about Sony's system recently.

At the end of the day it's still a "rumor" , couldn't care less about the source.
 

Mononoke

Banned
People comparing this to the way PC and mobile already is with digital downloads must remember:

* PC ecosystem offers truly flexible pricing and many non-DRM alternatives like GOG.com
* Insane Steam sales rather than the trickle of limp "sales" you typically see on Xbox Live. (Though PSN, to be fair, has some good sales regularly and good PS+ sales.)
* Platforms with far better continuity and backwards compatibility - you know that your digital purchases will almost always be usable moving forward into the future. Whether you build a new PC, or upgrade to a newer smart phone or tablet model.
* Superior PC services and extra values such as mod support, steam workshop, etc.

... and, to be blunt about it, if digital services on PC that have DRM ever go toes-up and screw you over, odds are that those dirty pirates have your back with unlocked versions of the software you purchased floating around the internet.

Game consoles have always been predicated on a different value proposition. It used to be that the hardware itself was the "DRM". You couldn't take a purchased game off the specific version of that hardware platform, or build your own custom console to spec. But this was offset by the ability to trade, sell, or even give away copies of games to others. (And acquire traded, used, or gifted games yourself in turn.)

Consoles were also offset by their simplicity, ease of use, and a good proposition of fixed hardware + low entry price providing a stable experience over a set number of years for not really much money.

The problem with trying to turn consoles into PCs in the area of DRM and digital ecosystem is that it's difficult to provide all the benefits to offset the restrictions. This even before getting into the fact that the leading console game industry and publishers are desperately trying to continue justifying their bloated practices. Which means passing more and more of the cost along to the end customer, rather than using stuff like DRM to lower prices on new products.

Yep, this. I find it bizarre Xbox fans are defending this by trying to compare it to PC.
 
I pretty much buy mostly digital at this point. Haven't sold a game of mine to anyone in many years. Also, I currently live in France where I think it's illegal to rent/sell used games, so uh yeah...

Sooo... Less is more? from what I've read. You'd rather have less options or control over what you purchased and/or own? Instead of having the ability to share, sell or trade on a whim, whatever... you'd rather not have that at all? You'd rather be bound by arbitrary rules?


Ok.
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
So, let's see.

No second-hand games is bad. Pretty bad. Especially for Gamestop, Gamefly, etc.etc. and an entire second market where people buy second hand games. If I understand this correctly, not even borrowing titles to others would be possible, even worse. It would probably change how mass audience approach to consoles...if people accept it.

Having Internet connection just to activate the code would not be such a big problem in the end: you activate the title, you don't need to be connected while playing the title anymore. But necessity of having Internet connection ALWAYS on, whenever you play, whatever you play would be...a much bigger disaster than the block to second hand games. By far. There are just too many people who play with consoles without Internet connections. With no second hand market, people can still buy games in the end, even cheap (just wait for deals), but if Internet connection is always required, many people would just stop buying games, lots of people. Even more in some European countries like Italy where IC aren't that good to begin with. I can't see MS doing this. IC for activation? Sure, it'd be in conjunction with the stop to used games and not obtrusive. IC always needed? Apocalytic scenario.
 
Weaker system? Check.
Always online? Check.
No used games? Check.
More OS overhead? Check.
More motion? Check.
Pay to play online? Check.

The Xbomba has been completed and is ready for deployment.

Additional Sony hype trains deployed to accommodate the high increase of new riders.

Very disappointed in MS if the rumors hold up. Sony, take my money please.
 
It has becoming scary easy to flip games. It is a big part of why the used market is booming and developers are tanking. The only long term success I can think of this gen was Borderlands. Everything else depending on the first month of sales.

Borderlands also had a gold edition and strong DLC support so yeah.

Eh, used games arent the reason for devs tanking. There are games generating more revenue than ever for the publisher but the profit margin is smaller than ever. Getting away from trying to mimic Hollywood would go a long way for developers.
 

pr0cs

Member
Not really surprising, though it will be interesting how the used game purveyors are going to respond.

It's been commonplace on PC for a long time now so it's not surprising that consoles are also going this route too in regards to always online, no reselling.
 

ari

Banned
People that are saying they won't buy the system because they only purchase their games second hand crack me up.

You are the exact people they are trying to get rid of
I play a lot of local co-op games, party games, and dance games from friends that bring halo, cod and just dance over. This would suck dude.
 
I'm getting kind of sick of the "rumors over patents" stuff in this thread.

The reason this takes precedence is because it is the most recent rumor from a VERY reliable source (EDGE).

We've had nothing like that about Sony's system recently.
The deflection by Xbox fans in this thread has been nothing short of masterful.
 
Um, don't really think of EDGE-online has one of those over the top click-bait rumour mongering sites. But I'm not sure why they wouldn't preface the piece with a 'rumoured' title or at least finesse their words more, as not to be so matter of fact about it.

They knew the shit storm this would ignite, just seems completely slapdash and tacky. Not usually what I think of, when I think EDGE.

EDGE wouldn't have reported on this...if they weren't pretty damn sure about it.

They even put this under the "News" category.
 
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