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[Future]

Developers are always going to risk going out of business, it wont matter if the 2nd hand market is stopped.

At the end of the day, if a game is obviously shit, it wont sell regardless if its 1st or 2nd hand.

The easiest way to avoid going out of business, make better bloody games

Obviously you must know this is a simplification. Good games aren't guaranteed sales in the slightest. Rehashed IPs and licensed games are, however.

What this potentially does is give more profit for the developer, allowing more risk taking. It doesn't guarantee it of course. But current climate almost demands those rehashes in favor of anything else

 

[Zerokku]

1) A lot of games have Demos on Xbox Live. Couldn't try it like that? Or look up gameplay videos and reviews/opinions to check to see if you'll like the game?

2) Why did you get burned out on those games? Did you not like them? Again, sucks having to adapt and no longer being able to sell back games you don't like, but again, can you watch videos online and read OTs for the game on NeoGAF so you know you'll like the game?

3) That's good for you but bad for the market.If you sell 3 games so you can get $60 to buy a game, you support the game you bought, but now someone else buys the 3 games used, screwing over the 3 developers/publishers of the games you sold.

4) Buy it digitally. The article even states games will be avaliable for download digitally and retail. If you can't find a game you want 1 year later, just buy it digitally.

I can see the concern and critism against Anti-Used Games, but to me it doesn't seem like too big of a deal for me.

1. Yes, because watching videos really compares to playing the game yourself. And half the time Demos are shitty representations of games. Just look at Tales of Vesperia. That demo was so bad I put off playing the game for over a year, and it ended up being one of my favorite titles of this gen.

2. See 1.

3. It really isn't. The used market is a necessary evil. As someone whos worked at a video game retailer for quite a long time, the customers who trade in the most, are the ones who buy the most new games. Mostly because thats the only way to afford it. If developers are going to keep their games at $60 without the possibility of resale, sales WILL go down. The only time this won't be seen is stuff like CoD.

4. What do I do if I want to play this game in 10 years? Hell I'm playing some PS2 games right now and wouldn't have that option under this kind of set-up. Publishers will not print discs forever. And even digital, whats to say Microsoft wouldn't be out of business/out of the console race in 15-20 years? What am I supposed to do with games I own and wish to play even that much time later?

 

[saladine1]

New Kinect?!?!?

Fuck yeah!!!!

 

[Camp Lo]

Bravo! This man gets it!

 

[RedNumberFive]

If you even remotely care about our hobby, and more importantly the preservation of it, you should be overwhelmingly against any anti-used games practices. If these sorts of tactics were used back in the NES days then classics like "Ducktales" or "Rescue Rangers" would be lost to the ether. Want to legally play a NES copy of Contra? Well it's not on the Virtual Console. A used copy on eBay is your ONLY choice. It seems that some GAFfers see
games only as a disposable product. As someone who still has an extensive retro gaming collection, this topic deeply worries me, and frankly I don't trust any of these publishers to keep their library forever available to me.

 

[ASIS]

People that are saying they won't buy the system because they only purchase their games second hand crack me up.

You are the exact people they are trying to get rid of

Are you really just looking at this from a financial perspective?

 

[TrueBlue]

How come no one seems to care about the new Kinect? Is that not important anymore?

 

[YuriLowell]

How come no one seems to care about the new Kinect? Is that not important anymore?

Not interested in more dancing and workout games.

 

[Foffy]

That would be fucked up if the Wii U ended up being the only console that didn't do this. Ain't gonna happen, but Nintendo seems to be the only big game company not actively trying to fight second-hand sales. Maybe because their own games never have to worry about the price disparities. I wonder why.

Outside of region locking, which is something I'm not a supporter of, I think it has to do with fact Nintendo hasn't followed industry trends that have led to games entering bomba territory. I think the industries fixation on DLC and post-game content has led to a growing consumer base who will no longer pay full price for such products, and Nintendo has a history of not doing that stuff as pervasively as other companies.

For example, Forza Horizon before launch claimed it had $60 of DLC in the works. Am I a fucking fool who is expected to pay $120 for the whole experience or should I wait until I can get the base game and that content for the price of a full game? This is a trend many companies are doing, and it's led to a grander level of declining prices.

 

[I H8 Memes]

And the gen after this, all Digital Distribution.

 

[Raxus]

Eh, used games arent the reason for devs tanking. There are games generating more revenue than ever for the publisher but the profit margin is smaller than ever. Getting away from trying to mimic Hollywood would go a long way for developers.

I agree for the most part. I think the resurgence of the indie market and smaller dev studios is a good sign for the future since big MMO's and FPS tend to be make it or break it gambles for most studios.

 

[Neuromancer]

Then why are publishers starting with the online pass thing? I'm not saying I agree this year I saved a ton of money by redboxing games for a few days on launch before buying. I just know where it's headed.

Good question. It's possible that they're not really scared of used sales, they just want to get that extra $10 because they can. Or they are scared of used sales but if they took the long view, maybe they shouldn't really be.

 

[emag]

Yeah I haven't sold a game to Gamestop in years, they're awful. I do private sales or sell to Best Buy when they do 100% extra trade in, if you time it right it's not uncommon to get $40 for a game.

GameStop gives $30 for popular releases if traded in within one month of release date. Special offers routinely push that to $40 or higher.

 

[Mononoke]

That and not all PC games have intrusive DRM or online always. Whereas if MS actually implements this, that is 100% the new standard.

 

[phisheep]

As for the rumor of no used games. Think about it from a publishing standpoint. A system where the consumer has to buy the game new means more $ for them. I'll tell you what, if I spent 50 million making a game and every game sold meant I got a royalty because they were new, I would definitely go with that system. Im playing devil's advocate, but an EA or Activision would love that.

In fact, if only one system did that, as a publisher, I would take more of a risk with the system that doesn't play used games than one that does.

Really? Let me tell you a story.

I'm no fan of hack'n'slash games, got mildly curious about No More Heroes from reviews, not enough to buy it new because the reviews weren't actually aimed at someone like me. Tripped over it second hand at a local store for about £7, bought it, loved it, got No More Heroes 2 on day 1.

So - entirely through there being a secondhand market - the publisher/developer got one full games worth of revenue from me whereas without it they would have got nothing.

New customers. That's one thing the secondhand market feeds. You want new customers?

 

[ari]

Third console from Microsoft will be its fall from grace, just like it was from Sony.

And nintendo....:0

 

[Uno Venova]

I'm getting kind of sick of the "rumors over patents" stuff in this thread.

The reason this takes precedence is because it is the most recent rumor from a VERY reliable source (EDGE).

We've had nothing like that about Sony's system recently.

Agreed, a very hard point for some to grasp for some reason.

 

[popeutlal]

I don't believe the blockage of used games rumor will become true, it might true for the 1st party games...but I think the publishers are smart enough to realize that this is a terrible idea from the public's point of view.

 

[SteveWinwood]

He's a walking joke at this point.

 

[Perkel]

Sadly it is true.


And since people won't sell their games they will buy new games less frequently and that will murder a lot of pubs and developers

 

[DeuceGamer]

Ha!

I can't wait for Sony to announce the same exact thing.

I can't imagine Sony/MS doing this without knowing the other is doing it. Just doesn't make sense but I'm not convinced this will happen with either. If so, my guess is Wii U will get a boost in sales and more people will be looking to make the jump to PC gaming, IMO.

 

[CoachKevin]

Guys, 3rd parties already know about this, if it is happening.

This isn't going to effect 3rd party titles moving to the wiiu at all.

So some of yal need to not be so excited

Source?

 

[Baron_Calamity]

How is this "building for that customer"? "

I'm not saying its logical or beneficial for the customer. They want the customer who doesn't have an issue with always on high speed internet access because Microsoft believes they will get more money from those customers to make up whatever was loss will occur by ignoring off line customers.

 

[Kusagari]

People that are saying they won't buy the system because they only purchase their games second hand crack me up.

You are the exact people they are trying to get rid of

MS is still getting their money every year from Live plus if they happen to buy any Arcade games.

 

[Lambtron]

The 360 has been my favorite console this gen. I absolutely will not buy the successor (or any other console) if I can't sell or lend my games and buy or borrow from others.

I have purchased dozens of games for the current gen consoles, and I have done so at launch and at full price. I have let other friends play my games. I've sold games to buy other games. I've bought games used years after they came out when they were nigh impossible to find new on store shelves. Yeah, I understand that when some dude buys a copy of Call of Duty for $55 from GameStop a week after it comes out it hurts the bottom line. Especially if it's one of two games they purchase annually. But not all people who play games have those same purchasing habits.

Yeah, I realize I can't re-sell or lend my Steam or XBLA games but most of them I have purchased for less than $10. If I can buy games on the Nextbox for $10, I'll consider it.

 

[Ephemeris]

This can't be real. Can it?

 

[NervousXtian]

Starting to lean Orbis ...this coming from someone who just bought a Ps3 a few days ago and have been with xbox from jump.

Edit: Orbis might be rocking this shit as well?

Time to build dat next gen PC

So that you can deal with always on DRM and no used games?

You couldn't even take a game YOU FUCKING BOUGHT to your friends house to play with them there. Fuck people that are ok with this shit.

Like someone said, you can bring your console.

Also ignoring the fact that not allowing used games on PC is just an unfortunate side effect of fighting piracy.

On PC, they're trying to stop people from playing games illegally.

On console, they're trying to stop people from legally playing used games.

It's a world of difference.

I think you have that kind of wrong, it's just the nature of a PC with hd's have meant that games for decades have been installed completely on a hd instead of just read and played from a disc like consoles.

But even back in the day you used to be able to sell the disc it came on, and there was never a way for a pub/dev to be sure you uninstalled software before you sold that disc. My friends and I shared PC games all the time when we were teens. Hell we used to rent from a local PC store and install all the disc to our PC's and then return them after we made copy of the code wheel and books at the local 7-11.

So I'd argue that with the start-up of the internet the PC market just had a jump start into eliminating second-hand sales, which was partially to stop piracy but also to maximize sales.

You've just had more than a decade headstart on PC's for this kind of thing. Consoles didn't have a good affordable avenue to go DD back in 2005. They do now.

So really the only difference between PC used and Console used is that the PC had a giant headstart in curbing the problem. Console tech has finally caught up to the point that they can enact much of the same solutions.

 

[TheApatheticOne]

Its just turning into something Im not interested in.

I have all the consoles, and a decent gaming PC. Im fine with PC games staying on my PC. But consoles games, to me, have always been a take over to your friends house to play with friends type deal. Let your friends borrow it, and you borrow theirs. Some games, if they have enough replay value (for me, RE5 with it's couch co-op) or I just really enjoy (Ninety-Nine Nights), Ill hold onto. Others, let me sell or trade to lower the cost of the next game I buy. I traded in some games yesterday to lower the cost of FotNS: Ken's Rage 2 (Im a musou fan). If I didnt have that option, I wouldnt own that game.

I know the argument with used games, that places like Gamestop get 100% of those used sales, and the people that made the game get nada, and I also agree thats not right. But the other side of the coin, I wouldn't own and put a LOT of money towards a lot of the games Ive come to own if trading/selling them wasnt an option.

All that said, I'll wait and see.

 

[Amagon]

Woah, woah, woah! Do not fucking want if its true.

 

[Arcteryx]

1) A lot of games have Demos on Xbox Live. Couldn't try it like that? Or look up gameplay videos and reviews/opinions to check to see if you'll like the game?

2) Why did you get burned out on those games? Did you not like them? Again, sucks having to adapt and no longer being able to sell back games you don't like, but again, can you watch videos online and read OTs for the game on NeoGAF so you know you'll like the game?

3) That's good for you but bad for the market.If you sell 3 games so you can get $60 to buy a game, you support the game you bought, but now someone else buys the 3 games used, screwing over the 3 developers/publishers of the games you sold.

4) Buy it digitally. The article even states games will be avaliable for download digitally and retail. If you can't find a game you want 1 year later, just buy it digitally.

I can see the concern and critism against Anti-Used Games, but to me it doesn't seem like too big of a deal for me.

Assuming you can find a digital copy...sure. Then again, have you seen the prices on XBL/PSN for digital "physical" games? They are absolutely outrageous.

So much for the "b-b-b-b-b-but Steam type sales would be prevalent" mentality.

 

[mattp]

I'll still buy it. Too invested into the Xbox LIve ecosystem to not upgrade without feeling regret.

Might I ask GAF, what exactly is a legitimate reason for hating " No used games"?

I don't see anything wrong from it. Why should people be allowed to fully experince and play a game because they paid $2 to rent them, or their friends let them borrow them? Why should they have the right to play it when they didn't give the Developer/Publisher any money for the good they made?

You guys act as if games only have a set price of New - $60 and Used - $55, and only used copies go down in price. New games take price drops within the first few months. Why don't you guys who want to save money, do what people do on Steam and wait for a sale/price drop in 2 months, and buy the game. Or just support the developer and buy new at launch for $60.

ok, bobby kotick

 

[Plinko]

This can't be real. Can it?

Yes.

 

[Delusibeta]

Hey, PS+ is a game licensing service. We might have more of those next gen. Offered by individual publishers and ect.. paying 10 euros a month for new releases and old, vs 60 per game. Might work out in publisher's favor.

It can happen.

Now, this, I don't have a problem with. Some music labels are already experimenting with this idea.

 

[Sushen]

i only buy second hand, so f them. your turn, Sony.

You don't have to say sorry because you're being deserted not the other way around if this is true.

 

[Biggzy]

I don't believe the blockage of used games rumor will become true, it might true for the 1st party games...but I think the publishers are smart enough to realize that this is a terrible idea from the public's point of view.

The same 3rd party publishers who have been including passes in their games that you have to buy to unlock certain features if you buy the game second hand?

 

[outunderthestars]

If you even remotely care about our hobby, and more importantly the preservation of it, you should be overwhelmingly against any anti-used games practices. If these sorts of tactics were used back in the NES days then classics like "Ducktales" or "Rescue Rangers" would be lost to the ether. Want to legally play a NES copy of Contra? Well it's not on the Virtual Console. A used copy on eBay is your ONLY choice. It seems that some GAFfers see
games only as a disposable product. As someone who still has an extensive retro gaming collection, this topic deeply worries me, and frankly I don't trust any of these publishers to keep their library forever available to me.

This. If the Edge article is true I'll be skipping the next Xbox entirely.

 

[enzo_gt]

How ignorant. Third parties will only use this for further justification of draconian DRM on PC as well for parity, especially when always-online becomes integrated into game's featuresets to make it further justifiable.

 

[BrLvgThrChmstry]

I play a lot of local co-op games, party games, and dance games from friends that bring halo, cod and just dance over. This would suck dude.

Then all your friends should bring their own console on which that game/licenced is tied to and BAM! ...problem solved.

 

[Dunan]

It has becoming scary easy to flip games. It is a big part of why the used market is booming and developers are tanking. The only long term success I can think of this gen was Borderlands. Everything else depending on the first month of sales.

It should be easy to "flip" games. If a game no longer holds any value for you, the market benefits most if you can sell it to someone for whom it does have value. The publishers evidently expect that person to buy a brand-new copy while your copy sits on your bookshelf gathering dust and never being played.

If publishers want us to hold on to our games forever, so that there's little or no used market, they can start by producing games that people want to hold on to forever.

 

[coldfoot]

Simple logic, if MS is doing this potentially bad looking move, it's because the publishers forced them to. Which means they'll be forcing Sony to do the same.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Are you really just looking at this from a financial perspective?

You can bet that is the perspective both companies are looking at. They don't care that you borrow games or use Redbox exclusively. That [purchaser] makes them no money.

 

[orznge]

Yeah, I realize I can't re-sell or lend my Steam or XBLA games but most of them I have purchased for less than $10. If I can buy games on the Nextbox for $10, I'll consider it.

there will probably be launch games on its marketplace sitting at $60 when the Next Next Xbox comes out

 

[Gravijah]

Ahhh, I suppose it's time for the console industry to shrink.

You can bet that is the perspective both companies are looking at. They don't care that you borrow games or use Redbox exclusively. That [purchaser] makes them no money.

It would be the wrong perspective as the industry had enormous amounts of growth right alongside Gamestop.

 

[DeFiBkIlLeR]

Gabe will be pleased...

 

[Camp Lo]

So that you can deal with always on DRM and no used games?

NervousXtian
I'm an idiot
(Today, 10:55 AM)

 

[ari]

Does NDA include second hand sells? If not, they should. I am 100% sure that games gets life after flopping or something like dvds for movies. Or is it because gamestop takes all the profits?

 

[pixlexic]

If it is true and Sony doesn't do this then Sony will easily run away with the lead.

If they both do it bleeding edge hardware or not nintendo will have a chance at a massive turn around.

 

[abadguy]

The deflection by Xbox fans in this thread has been nothing short of masterful.

I see people still in full on console warrior mode, and it seems that's the real reason certain people want to believe this is true, despite the sheer stupidity of it. Basic common sense makes it a bit hard for me to believe these rumors, but some want to believe it so to them its facts.
Also a patent is something that they actively filed for, so yes it holds more weight for me than hearsay. Personally i don't see any of them being dumb enough to actually do something like that.

If it is true and Sony doesn't do this then Sony will easily run away with the lead.

If they both do it bleeding edge hardware or not nintendo will have a chance at a massive turn around.

Pretty much.

 

[espher]

So that you can deal with always on DRM and no used games?

Haven't had any problems getting out of print PC titles so far.

Can't say the same for my console game hunt (barring emulation).

 

[evanmisha]

Saved.