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[BlackBanditSho]

Just considered another alternative scenario.

Both systems are equipped to do this, but don't announce this. These systems will likely have 7-10 year lifespans. Always online DRM isn't practical for most of the country - yet.

If MS and Sony announced this with the launch, it would be a tremendous buzz kill.

Until everything is sorted out with distribution and working e-stores, etc, MS and Sony will likely reveal and implement this very slowly. Probably at least not for a couple of years into the system's cycle.

When they pull the trigger, together, we as an audience will be used to buying DD games and the used game store infrastructure will have evolved into something else.

I hate Gamestop, but they've started playing aggressively with digital download codes, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if by the time this is a go, Gamestop will have the capability to do wonky DRM resets or some such. Sure, you can buy a used game, but you've got to pay them to reset the DRM or something and re-register it. I dunno. Scary, but it's a possibility.

Either way, I don't doubt that BOTH systems, Durango and Orbis, are ready with the same feature set. It's a matter of when they're going to pull the trigger during this upcoming lengthy game cycle. When they do, I think the audience will be ready for it. MS and Sony will likely have found a way to afford STEAM level sales by that time.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Just considered another alternative scenario.

Both systems are equipped to do this, but don't announce this. These systems will likely have 7-10 year lifespans. Always online DRM isn't practical for most of the country - yet.

If MS and Sony announced this with the launch, it would be a tremendous buzz kill.

Until everything is sorted out with distribution and working e-stores, etc, MS and Sony will likely reveal and implement this very slowly. Probably at least not for a couple of years into the system's cycle.

When they pull the trigger, together, we as an audience will be used to buying DD games and the used game store infrastructure will have evolved into something else.

I hate Gamestop, but they've started playing aggressively with digital download codes, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if by the time this is a go, Gamestop will have the capability to do wonky DRM resets or some such. Sure, you can buy a used game, but you've got to pay them to reset the DRM or something and re-register it. I dunno. Scary, but it's a possibility.

Either way, I don't doubt that BOTH systems, Durango and Orbis, are ready with the same feature set. It's a matter of when they're going to pull the trigger during this upcoming lengthy game cycle. When they do, I think the audience will be ready for it. MS and Sony will likely have found a way to afford STEAM level sales by that time.

I doubt it. Imagine the lawsuits coming from this if they do this, because it's actively misleading the consumer.

 

[Knux-Future]

Games will have to be a looooooot cheaper for this to work

 

[jbug617]

im really surprised ms hasn't commented on this yet. really hope its not true

They made a comment to Yahoo Financials. They basically said they don't talk about rumors.

 

[Vamphuntr]

The only way this would be less awful to swallow for me would be to allow to completely install your games without requiring the disk in the drive to play. If I can't lend it or trade it I better be able to install it and play it without a disk.

But we still have to see if it's true or not, I guess.

 

[Xiaoki]

No. Not the majority. One would be enough. Somebody like EA has chopped off support when they don't get their own way in the past. Just look at the Dreamcast and the EA Sports debacle.

Yes, and as we all know it was solely EAs lack of support is what killed the Dreamcast.

But, using a Sega system to argue your point? Thats funny.

 

[Boost]

RIP to Gamefly?

I buy my games there, after I use them of course.

 

[neonille]

So..can Edge show me some proof or is this just BS to increase the visitors on their website (almost every single gaming related website are linking to them now)

I call bs on this.

 

[Lord Error]

Honestly I just think everyone should invest in pc gaming if they can. Most of the time the multiplatform games are superior and you will end up saving a lot more money on new titles

And play what? I tend to really like games that end up being console exclusives and by my rough estimates that's probably 70-80% of what I've played (or at least enjoyed playing) over the past few years. Don't give advices like that thinking that having PC alone will work for everyone.

 

[GamerSoul]

Games will have to be a looooooot cheaper for this to work

Not with all those AAAA titles we're gooing to get.

 

[UberTag]

I can already tell the next couple weeks are going to be full of people yelling that the sky is falling. Podcasts are going to be comprised of people not even looking at current "always on" models that they use every day. In the end everyone will look really dumb when we find out exactly what this is. If it's complete bullshit or perfectly reasonable DRM we are already used to.

Regardless of the outcome that still doesn't excuse EDGE from egregiously spreading hyperbole in the name of "journalism" knowing full well it would be misinterpreted by the masses and tank GameStop's stock price just for the sake of getting a few hits.

 

[MCD]

Time to drop this hobby.

 

[Version 3.0]

There is a zero percent chance Amazon or Best Buy would boycott

Why not? Amazon already doesn't carry Nintendo hardware, for reasons unknown. Why would they carry a console that locks down the portion of their business that moves them over the line from loss to profit?

 

[BadAss2961]

im really surprised ms hasn't commented on this yet. really hope its not true

No comment from MS is probably not a good sign if you're hoping for this to not be true.

 

[hongcha]

If the game prices get more reasonable ($20-$30 tops), then I don't mind buying all games digitally. If they want $60 a pop, then I'm out.

The "always need to be connected to the internet to play" thing hopefully isn't true. What if you're playing and your connection drops, does it kick you out of your game? Bleh.

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

Omg please do it MS! Pull this and end up like the VirtualBoy of next gen home consoles so that no other company attempts such a bullshit move again.

 

[Duxxy3]

Regardless of the outcome that still doesn't excuse EDGE from egregiously spreading hyperbole in the name of "journalism" knowing full well it would be misinterpreted by the masses and tank GameStop's stock price just for the sake of getting a few hits.

They obviously trusted their source enough to go through with this, knowing it would be enormous news.
If the news is true, which is likely, then game stop's stock dropped for a real reason.

 

[BruiserBear]

im really surprised ms hasn't commented on this yet. really hope its not true

I think it's really happening. Can't imagine why they wouldn't just let Major Nelson say something on twitter if it wasn't.


Any before someone replies to me with a smart ass "how can they deny something for a console that doesn't exist yet", there are lots of ways for Major Nelson to say this without explicitly announcing a new Xbox is coming. Such as "don't always believe things you read on the internet".

That simple statement would send the signal to the online community that the day's big story isn't true, thus putting this whole thing to bed. They chose not to do that.

So that tells me they're not saying shit because it's true, or they're floating the idea out there to see what the reaction is, and maybe they don't make their final decision for another month or two. Either way they chose not to shut down the furor today.

 

[Vamphuntr]

Why not? Amazon already doesn't carry Nintendo hardware, for reasons unknown. Why would they carry a console that locks down the portion of their business that moves them over the line from loss to profit?

It's not totally unknown. Someone had posted a sensible reason on another board. Might not be accurate since it's IGN and all but it makes sense. Basically Amazon doesn't like the fact that they cannot have the same wholesale discount as other retail chains and how they have no control on the discount they can offer on Nintendo hardware.

http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/3ds-xl-amazon.452616918/#post-465007728

 

[glaringradio]

If this is true, wow. It'll bomb harder than anything we've ever seen before. Although if they have the foresight to make it fixable by a patch or something, maybe the situation could be salvageable

Edit: I say this as a die-hard believer of the rent first crowd. Rent a game for 3 days, if I haven't finished it by then, buy it. If I have finished it, then it wasn't worth the full price in the first place.

 

[Duxxy3]

If the game prices get more reasonable ($20-$30 tops), then I don't mind buying all games digitally. If they want $60 a pop, then I'm out.

The "always need to be connected to the internet to play" thing hopefully isn't true. What if you're playing and your connection drops, does it kick you out of your game? Bleh.

Yes, you would get kicked out of game assuming its the same as d3 and every other online game.

 

[B-Dubs]

Not necessarily. They aren't going to acknowledge the existence of an unannounced console by commenting in rumors or leaks.

You mean the system we all already know exists? It's all wink wink nudge nudge at this point, we know it's there and they know we know. I get what you're saying, but this is really the sort of thing they should be saying "If we were making a new system, this is the sort of feature we would never add in."

 

[Treemonkeys]

How so? People that play cod and madden will buy the console that plays cod and madden. They'd lose some customers but would probably gain many more giving their money directly to the publishers. Basically is a bigger piece of the game pie > the number of people that would only buy orbis and never switch to play the games they want. It's closer than you think.

The top sales tier "must have" IPs might come out ahead with this, but as far as overall game sales...the frugal people who consistently load up on used games won't suddenly buy the same amount of games new, they will just buy fewer games.

 

[Mandoric]

The top sales tier "must have" IPs might come out ahead with this, but as far as overall game sales...the frugal people who consistently load up on used games won't suddenly buy the same amount of games new, they will just buy fewer games.

Top tier will almost definitely suffer. Lots of "$60" launch buyers are there because they're really $20+last month's AAA release buyers.

 

[Eusis]

These kind of features seem like they could generate negative buzz like with Windows 8.

In spite of how big Xbox is now, it doesn't guarantee future success. Like from Windows 7 and PS2.

This is important to keep in mind actually. If they go through with this, or even if they don't but go through other stupid crap instead, they definitely can tank. I don't think much of the "dudebro" audience really cares where they get their shoot shoot bang bang, and for now it's CoD and Battlefield that are big, not Halo or Gears. And I'm getting the impression that even if PS4 doesn't require always online they'll at least permit some games to do it, and so BF4 runs with it.

 

[border]

If there's any silver lining to this, it's that MAYBE publishers will stop trying to shoehorn multiplayer modes into games that are primarily singleplayer experiences. Publishers see multiplayer as a way of preventing people from selling their game back to Gamestop. If the used game market is out of the equation then perhaps publishers will be comfortable making an FPS or action game that does not have a multiplayer component.

Of course there's the possibility that consumers will simply refuse to buy $60 games with only a singleplayer campaign.

 

[Unknown One]

If true there would be a rift that other publishers would want to fill if a publisher is boycotting Sony for not going the Anti-used games route.

EA would love to get battlefield on PS4 to fill the rift that COD left, visa versa. It doesn't have to be other either. Ubisoft and Capcom could as well.

 

[Treemonkeys]

Top tier will almost definitely suffer. Lots of "$60" launch buyers are there because they're really $20+last month's AAA release buyers.

Top tier isn't a monthly thing. I don't want to be ridiculous and call it AAAA, but AAA get's thrown around alot - often to IPs that don't even begin to compete with IPs like CoD in terms of sales.

 

[Brad Grenz]

It's not totally unknown. Someone had posted a sensible reason on another board. Might not be accurate since it's IGN and all but it makes sense. Basically Amazon doesn't like the fact that they cannot have the same wholesale discount as other retail chains and how they have no control on the discount they can offer on Nintendo hardware.

http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/3ds-xl-amazon.452616918/#post-465007728

I always heard it was because Amazon had a ton of returns on the 3DS back when they had that defect that damaged the screen from closing the system and Nintendo to Amazon to eat a dick and absorb the losses.

But, yeah. Amazon, Walmart, Best Buy, Target will carry these consoles. Those guys don't care about used game sales. It's only businesses like GameStop that have shaped their entire business model around being a videogame pawn shop who are threatened. Even they should be able to survive, though it probably means closing a bunch of stores. They over-expanded anyway. There were two in the same mall here for a really long time. If fewer stores were serving the same number of customers in a community they wouldn't need used sales to stay afloat.

 

[Treemonkeys]

If there's any silver lining to this, it's that MAYBE publishers will stop trying to shoehorn multiplayer modes into games that are primarily singleplayer experiences. Publishers see multiplayer as a way of preventing people from selling their game back to Gamestop. If the used game market is out of the equation then perhaps publishers will be comfortable making an FPS or action game that does not have a multiplayer component.

Of course there's the possibility that consumers will simply refuse to buy $60 games with only a singleplayer campaign.

It's actually amazing how many console games I played this gen with multiplayer that was completely and hopelessly broken due to lag and performance problems - to the level that they made Gears of War 1 look like the pinnacle of multiplayer performance. With achievements tied to multiplayer. The wasted time spent on this trash, and then releasing it to the public, is mind boggling - like the multiplayer was never tested outside of dev kits on a LAN.

 

[MIMIC]

*wanders into mega thread*

So....does everyone think this is just a horrible rumor, or something that has some legitimacy? Because if this is true, there is no fucking way I would buy another Xbox. This would be the very essence of a company fucking over its loyal customers.

 

[GillianSeed79]

I wonder how retailers will react. Obviously, Gamestop wouldn't be happy, but wouldn't most retailers have to rethink how many copies of games they stock? Say the second hand market is completely eliminated for the Durango. Wouldn't you order less stock of new games? No one would be able to sell their old games to finance the purchase of new games, so you'd have all these $60 new games just sitting there taking up shelf space if they didn't sell. Would that mean the benefit of more frequent and quicker price drops? If the PS4 doesn't block used game sales, would that mean retailers would stock more PS4 games because it would be a safer bet?

 

[Ptaaty]

Next gen looking less appealing all the time. It is absolutely time for consoles to move on, they are tanking - but man, how unappealing is this.

I was an Xbox and Xbox 360 primary gamer (for consoles), and am so far very interested in the PS4. Sick of the Live Gold fee - particularly since it is swamped with ads. Kinect is one of the worst console related purchases I've made - very little time even with the fam.

Add into it rumors of this always on DRM and lower graphical performance? Well if this all shakes out like it appears at the moment, I think I'll pass on my typical day one purchase.

 

[steven28]

If this is true, wow. It'll bomb harder than anything we've ever seen before.

I agree and i hope it does completely bomb.. i can't believe what i am seeing here such a ridiculously stupid decision by microsoft.

 

[Baconsammy]

I wonder how retailers will react. Obviously, Gamestop wouldn't be happy, but wouldn't most retailers have to rethink how many copies of games they stock? Say the second hand market is completely eliminated for the Durango. Wouldn't you order less stock of new games? No one would be able to sell their old games to finance the purchase of new games, so you'd have all these $60 new games just sitting there taking up shelf space if they didn't sell. Would that mean the benefit of more frequent and quicker price drops? If the PS4 doesn't block used game sales, would that mean retailers would stock more PS4 games because it would be a safer bet?

Both companies are most likely going to focus heavily on digital downloads, which obviously is going to screw retailers over. The used game thing won't affect the majority of them. I have a feeling stores will mostly be selling peripherals, consoles, and codes in the future.

I agree and i hope it does completely bomb.. i can't believe what i am seeing here such a ridiculously stupid decision by microsoft.

It won't. Third parties won't let it. And as we all know, third parties make the world go 'round.

 

[Kevin]

*wanders into mega thread*

So....does everyone think this is just a horrible rumor, or something that has some legitimacy? Because if this is true, there is no fucking way I would buy another Xbox. This would be the very essence of a company fucking over its loyal customers.

Honestly, Microsoft and Steve Balmer has been working around the clock to find ways to control and manipulate it's customers. Just look at the Windows 8 and Surface fiasco. Windows 8 is a turd of an operating system and a complete step toward completely removing the ability to install software altogether outside of the MS app store. I would be surprised if this rumored was NOT true. I just hope Sony isn't going to do the same thing.

 

[Tom Penny]

So people believe if your internet is down or Live has an issue your will be unable to play games? Does not compute. MS is not that stupid. Maybe you can just put the game on your HDD then play it offline.

 

[Discotheque]

And play what? I tend to really like games that end up being console exclusives and by my rough estimates that's probably 70-80% of what I've played (or at least enjoyed playing) over the past few years. Don't give advices like that thinking that having PC alone will work for everyone.

umm it was advice. not an order lol

and yeah i'm not too hot on exclusives these days. have had a lot more fun with multiplatforms going by the past few years.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Honestly, Microsoft and Steve Balmer has been working around the clock to find ways to control and manipulate it's customers. Just look at the Windows 8 and Surface fiasco. Windows 8 is a turd of an operating system and a complete step toward completely removing the ability to install software altogether outside of the MS app store. I would be surprised if this rumored was NOT true. I just hope Sony isn't going to do the same thing.

Wait, is there something about Windows 8 I've missed? I went with 8 for my latest PC build since it was dirt cheap, and I have used the app store exactly once.

 

[vg260]

So people believe if your internet is down or Live has an issue your will be unable to play games? Does not compute. MS is not that stupid. Maybe you can just put the game on your HDD then play it offline.

I'm not sure why they would make it any different than the current DRM system where as long as you play on the licensed console you don't need to be online.

 

[Chet Rippo]

This is crazy. No way is it true.

 

[spannicus]

I wouldn't put it past Microsoft especially with the hard time they had with the 360's piracy issues im sure they'll do whatever it takes to stop multiple copies of a game being played in one console.

 

[Kevin]

Wait, is there something about Windows 8 I've missed? I went with 8 for my latest PC build since it was dirt cheap, and I have used the app store exactly once.

It's being highly theorized that Microsoft wants to establish the app store in Windows 8 and eventually in a later version of Windows require the app store as the only means of installing software. They already do this on the tablet versions of Windows 8 but will possibly make this move on the desktop operating system for Windows 9. Community speculation at this point but seems likely in my honest opinion based on everything they are doing business wise.

 

[vg260]

I think it's really happening. Can't imagine why they wouldn't just let Major Nelson say something on twitter if it wasn't.


Any before someone replies to me with a smart ass "how can they deny something for a console that doesn't exist yet", there are lots of ways for Major Nelson to say this without explicitly announcing a new Xbox is coming. Such as "don't always believe things you read on the internet".

That simple statement would send the signal to the online community that the day's big story isn't true, thus putting this whole thing to bed. They chose not to do that.

So that tells me they're not saying shit because it's true, or they're floating the idea out there to see what the reaction is, and maybe they don't make their final decision for another month or two. Either way they chose not to shut down the furor today.

They are simply not going to comment on something not announced, neither would Sony or Nintendo or any company for that matter. They all just say we don't comment on rumors or speculation. That's it. That's how you handle these things. There's nothing to read into their silence either way.

 

[AkIRA_22]

Isn't it something like only 60% of 360s are connected? Do Microsoft really want to turn FORTY PERCENT of their buyer to Sony? If I was Sony and I kinda knew that this was happening, and it wouldn't be hard to find out, they could just do the opposite and get an extra 30 million sales.

 

[PsychoSoldier]

If this is true, it smells of hubris.

And I laugh at anyone who thinks consumers are going to see cheaper prices on on-demand.

I never thought I'd become a PC person, but this kind of thing could solidify it.

 

[Fess]

List of reasons, or excuses if you will, why people say they hack their console without being a pirate just got longer

Homebrew
Region free gaming
Backups
Offline gaming
Used games

And yes, piracy will likely increase alot if this rumor turns out to be true, no doubt, forcing people to pay full price and helping retailers to keep the price up is probably enough to turn people over.

 

[strata8]

It's being highly theorized that Microsoft wants to establish the app store in Windows 8 and eventually in a later version of Windows require the app store as the only means of installing software. They already do this on the tablet versions of Windows 8 but will possibly make this move on the desktop operating system for Windows 9. Community speculation at this point but seems likely in my honest opinion based on everything they are doing business wise.

I find it laughable that anyone could insinuate that Microsoft would lock out 12 years worth of software just for shits and giggles.

 

[Quasar]

It's being highly theorized that Microsoft wants to establish the app store in Windows 8 and eventually in a later version of Windows require the app store as the only means of installing software. They already do this on the tablet versions of Windows 8 but will possibly make this move on the desktop operating system for Windows 9. Community speculation at this point but seems likely in my honest opinion based on everything they are doing business wise.

I think thats scare-mongering for the most part. Maybe they would do it with a consumer version many versions down the track, but that's about it. I think Apple will do this first.

 

[Kevin]

This is big enough to shift the console wars into Sony/Nintendo's favor assuming Sony doesn't go the same route. I would hate to learn that Microsoft and Sony got together behind the scenes and agreed to BOTH utilize this always-on DRM to completely eliminate consumer choice. I see this as completely plausible because A. Sony has similar patents for always-on DRM and B. Sony heavily embraced ONLINE PASS for their first party titles.

It is very possible that the Wii U will be the only system to allow for used video games going forward. I guess we will find out later this month what Sony intends to do with their platform.