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[Bernardougf]

You keep missing the point that sony has moved away from list-wars that you're looking for. They're not gonna announce games years in advance anymore.

If you want to know what's announced:
Helldivers 2, FF7R2, Death Stranding 2, Wolverine and you sprinkle in whatever additional smaller/GAAS games get announced.

there ya go a great 2024 PS5 exclusive lineup.

Death Stranding is not first party .. but lets accpet that.. death stranding was announced in junr 2016 and released november 2019.. so 3 and half years ... and death stranding 2 was announced on november 2022 .. so 2024 ? Two years for a kojima game ? ... okay lets hope

FF7R2 not first party again.

Wolverine... ok first party now we are talking...we are in oct/23 without any image from the game.. so 2024 title ? Good luck

Helldivers 2 is multiplayer .. so not a single player game.

So the sprinkled Gaas.. is not so sprinkled it seems

 

[yurinka]

Its solid enough because we literally see the fucking hiring of developers and they are describing the actual elements of the past titles.

Like with Ghost Of Tsushima 2, Sucker Punch description regarding the hiring is literally an open world stealth game with melee combat.

The list is a well thought out, educated guess on what is very likely to be what they'll be working on. I don't know what to tell you at this point.

To provide any information, is to have then securitized to an almost ridiculous degree.

As in PD could be working on GT8 or even a sequel to GT Sport
Sony Bend is confirmed to be working on a new IP
A lot of what is on that list, can be confirmed based on their own damn hiring page. You telling me Sony hiring for nothing to happen? They just keeping those teams open and paying people for lolz?

Come on man lol

We can debate when it comes out, we can debate IF The project makes to a reveal and releases, shit we can debate so many things, I don't think we should be debating the reality of Sony's Teams are currently working on games.

GoT1 becomes the best selling Sucker Punch game ever, great reviews, awards and a movie adaptation, sold like 10 millions in a couple years. Sucker Punch staff talks about ideas for the sequel in GoT launch interviews and making of videos. Sucker Punch makes several job offers asking being familiar with GoT. Sony includes GoT as one of their main IPs when talking about the future, and in a group of single player non-GaaS games/IPs. We know that around half of their games under development are new IPs and that many of the ones we know are new IP, so that means that many of the ones to be announced next will be sequels.

So I think Sucker Punch's next game will be... a new IP about soccer. Now seriously, they didn't announce it publicly but it's very clear that just after GoT they started to work in GoT2.

Death Stranding is not first party ..

Death Stranding 1 and 2 are Sony published games, so are first party games. And on top of that, Death Stranding is also a Sony owned brand developed on a Sony owned game engine.

 

[Raonak]

I gave you a list, if you're gonna be moving goalposts again, then we're done here.

fact is, sony is gonna keep releasing big playstation SP exclusives whether you want to believe it or not.

 

[Bernardougf]

I gave you a list, if you're gonna be moving goalposts again, then we're done here.

No Im not moving go posts ... you gave me a list and we are discussing your list.. or I supposed to accept whatver you say as gospel ?

Edit: and yes sony will continue to launch first party single players game, never said they wouldn't

 

[Bernardougf]

GoT1 becomes the best selling Sucker Punch game ever, great reviews, awards and a movie adaptation, sold like 10 millions in a couple years. Sucker Punch staff talks about ideas for the sequel in GoT launch interviews and making of videos. Sucker Punch makes several job offers asking being familiar with GoT. Sony includes GoT as one of their main IPs when talking about the future, and in a group of single player non-GaaS games/IPs. We know that around half of their games under development are new IPs and that many of the ones we know are new IP, so that means that many of the ones to be announced next will be sequels.

So I think Sucker Punch's next game will be... a new IP about soccer. Now seriously, they didn't announce it publicly but it's very clear that just after GoT they started to work in GoT2.


Death Stranding 1 and 2 are Sony published games, so are first party games. And on top of that, Death Stranding is also a Sony owned brand developed on a Sony owned game engine.

Yes death stranding is posted by sony as first party... will not be a 2024 game either way ... you can mark it and serve me the crow later in case Im wrong.

 

[yurinka]

Well if you find where I said that "sony haz no games" in development ill be happy to correct myself, and I didnt even dispute your vaporware list, which may well be very accurate. But for some reason I asking for a more realistic list of already announced and shown games for the near future is somehow controversial... I wonder why

Calling a list of Sony games that we know have been released or that are under development vaporware or unrealistic is basically the same than saying 'Sony haz no games' or being a gaming flatearther.

There are many games that we know they exist via oficial sources because they have been oficially directly mentioned in interviews, events, social media posts or job listings, docs for investors or even announced even if not shown or even without mentioning their specific names. Or even shown without still not mentioning that release date. This is the case of every single game of the lists I posted:

Jim became CEO in April 2019 and Hermen in November 2019.

List of Sony GaaS games released/to be released since then but already greenlighted before they became CEO, as it's the case of TLOP1 or the idea of making the PC efforts:

• Dreams (known to be in delopment years before they became CEO)
• Destruction All Stars (released February 2021, must have been greenlighted earlier)
• Gran Turismo 7 (started after Gran Turismo Sport launch, which also is GaaS)
• Firewall Ultra (started after Firewall Zero Hour launch)
• Convallaria (if it's a GaaS -I think won't-, its first video was published March 2019)
• Helldivers 2 (started in 2015/2016 after Helldivers 1 launch)
• Concord (studio founded in 2018)
• Horizon Online (its game director Simon Larouche working on it since Feb. 2018 according to his LinkedIn)
• London Studio new IP (their previous game was released in May 2019 and before that they had 2 teams)
• Destiny 2 (already released when acquired)
• Marathon (already in development when acquired)
• Matter/new Bungie IP (already in development when acquired)

List of the first 1st party known games greenlighted in the Jim and Hermen era:

• Death Stranding 2 (started after DS1 launch)
• New open world IP by Bend, which was pitched by Bend after Days Gone (Sony/PS Studios/Jim/Hermen approved the first pitch that Bend sent them after Days Gone 1, which was this new IP, they never received a Days Gone 2 pitch because the Bend studio boss blocked the directors from sending it to Sony)
• Ghost of Tsushima 2 (started after GoT1 launch)
• Unannounced ND game(s) under development, at least one of them SP (started after TLOU2 launch, not sure when)
• Wolverine (started after Morales launch)
• Team Asobi's next game (a 3d action platformer with humor bigger than the Astros) and multiple prototypes)
• Deviation's game (studio founded in 2020)
• Housemarque next game (started after Returnal release)
• Fairgame$ (even if they started to work on it at Google, maybe started production at Sony)
• Horizon 3 (pretty likely started after HFW release)
• Insomniac game with MP (pretty likely started after Rift Apart)
• Next GoW, set in a new mythology (started after GoWR)

Games that aren't clear when they started:

• Spider-Man 2 (started after Spider-Man 1, we don't know exactly when but if just after release, which is likely, wouldn't be greenlighted by them)
• TLOU Online (branched out from TLOU2 to become a standalone game in 2019, not sure if before or after Jim and Hermen became CEO)
• Horizon CoM (Guerrilla and Firesprite have more than two teams working at the same time since who knows when)
• Unannounced projects by Firesprite+Fabrik, since they have multiple games under development at the same time but we don't know since when and don't even know the amount of games under development that they have

 

[GigaBowser]

Sony I love is for the gamers

Putting the resources in gaas is the porblem just make new single player ips if you are listening Sony I am known for my industry predictions

 

[Bernardougf]

Calling a list of Sony games that we know have been released or that are under development vaporware or unrealistic is basically the same than saying 'Sony haz no games' or being a gaming flatearther.

There are many games that we know they exist via oficial sources because they have been oficially directly mentioned in interviews, events, social media posts or job listings, docs for investors or even announced even if not shown or even without mentioning their specific names. Or even shown without still not mentioning that release date. This is the case of every single game of the lists I posted:

Jim became CEO in April 2019 and Hermen in November 2019.

List of Sony GaaS games released/to be released since then but already greenlighted before they became CEO, as it's the case of TLOP1 or the idea of making the PC efforts:

• Dreams (known to be in delopment years before they became CEO)
• Destruction All Stars (released February 2021, must have been greenlighted earlier)
• Gran Turismo 7 (started after Gran Turismo Sport launch, which also is GaaS)
• Firewall Ultra (started after Firewall Zero Hour launch)
• Convallaria (if it's a GaaS -I think won't-, its first video was published March 2019)
• Helldivers 2 (started in 2015/2016 after Helldivers 1 launch)
• Concord (studio founded in 2018)
• Horizon Online (its game director Simon Larouche working on it since Feb. 2018 according to his LinkedIn)
• London Studio new IP (their previous game was released in May 2019 and before that they had 2 teams)
• Destiny 2 (already released when acquired)
• Marathon (already in development when acquired)
• Matter/new Bungie IP (already in development when acquired)

List of the first 1st party known games greenlighted in the Jim and Hermen era:

• Death Stranding 2 (started after DS1 launch)
• New open world IP by Bend, which was pitched by Bend after Days Gone (Sony/PS Studios/Jim/Hermen approved the first pitch that Bend sent them after Days Gone 1, which was this new IP, they never received a Days Gone 2 pitch because the Bend studio boss blocked the directors from sending it to Sony)
• Ghost of Tsushima 2 (started after GoT1 launch)
• Unannounced ND game(s) under development, at least one of them SP (started after TLOU2 launch, not sure when)
• Wolverine (started after Morales launch)
• Team Asobi's next game (a 3d action platformer with humor bigger than the Astros) and multiple prototypes)
• Deviation's game (studio founded in 2020)
• Housemarque next game (started after Returnal release)
• Fairgame$ (even if they started to work on it at Google, maybe started production at Sony)
• Horizon 3 (pretty likely started after HFW release)
• Insomniac game with MP (pretty likely started after Rift Apart)
• Next GoW, set in a new mythology (started after GoWR)

Games that aren't clear when they started:

• Spider-Man 2 (started after Spider-Man 1, we don't know exactly when but if just after release, which is likely, wouldn't be greenlighted by them)
• TLOU Online (branched out from TLOU2 to become a standalone game in 2019, not sure if before or after Jim and Hermen became CEO)
• Horizon CoM (Guerrilla and Firesprite have more than two teams working at the same time since who knows when)
• Unannounced projects by Firesprite+Fabrik, since they have multiple games under development at the same time but we don't know since when and don't even know the amount of games under development that they have

No, saying that games that dont have a name and still dosent exist and that havent even being announced is not the same as saying "they have no gamez"... and yes any game from any company that does not existis vaporware for list wars until they do ..... I dont give any company not matter which any benefit of doubt, I trust only in what I can see and what they choose to show me ... you want to live based on linkedin jobs, supposed greenlighted and pitched games is on you... not everybody has to live like that ... Sony has games but they chose to do their showcase this year of the games for the foreseeable future heavily focused on Mp and GaaS with only Sipider Man to account for in the first party SP helm, and the message Jimbo has been pushing is pretty clear(gaas and pc) ... so for now for me and my eyes thats what they have ... when they do their next showcase and announce their next lineup Ill reevaluate my opinion.

And to close...

Im asking: what they have shown until now ? And you keep answering with "this is what they will show ****probably*** in the future....

So until you want to discuss the facts shown to you and not promisses that even sony didnt make ... there is no point in continuing this discussion... want to live of "what ifs ? Fanboy land" Be my guess.. im out

 

[Humdinger]

Their own internal presentation showed that the plan was to drop traditional AAA funding to 45% by 2025 and raising live service funding to 55%. If the budget goes from 88% traditional funding 12% live service (2019 budget) to 55% live service, 45% traditional there is no way that they will be able to maintain single player release cadence. These numbers are all pulled from SONYs presentation to investors directly from their own charts.

Yeah, that's a big shift. I wasn't aware of this. Thanks for posting.

 

[Bernardougf]

Yeah, that's a big shift. I wasn't aware of this. Thanks for posting.

Sony is not doing anything in the dark .. Jimbo was more then open to their Gaas/Mp strategy, they bought Bungie with the sole purpose of "know how" and not for exclusive games since gaas exclusivity is just dumb, they started uping their PC presence in unprecedented form, as posted above their investments are shifting and their MAIN showcase for this year was a gaas festival with ONLY spider man to account for in the single player first party.

Is Sony going to abandon SP games ? No!

Is Sony starting to change their focus for something they think will be more lucrative in the long run and putting SP games on the back sit ? Well.. IMHO yes .. based on all they did in the last year (aiming for at least the next two years) regarding the Gaas/MP/PC push

Maybe Im completely wrong.. is up to them to prove me wrong and change my opinion.. and I sure hope so .. because as of right now ? It does not look good... at least for me. And vaporware lists are not enough to change my mind. As ND and Factions just proved everything is vaporware until it is not.

 

[Humdinger]

Sony is not doing anything in the dark .. Jimbo was more then open to their Gaas/Mp strategy, they bought Bungie with the sole purpose of "know how" and not for exclusive games since gaas exclusivity is just dumb, they started uping their PC presence in unprecedented form, as posted above their investments are shifting and their MAIN showcase for this year was a gaas festival with ONLY spider man to account for in the single player first party.

Is Sony going to abandon SP games ? No!

Is Sony starting to change their focus for something they think will be more lucrative in the long run and putting SP games on the back sit ? Well.. IMHO yes .. based on all they did in the last year (aiming for at least the next two years) regarding the Gaas/MP/PC push

Maybe Im completely wrong.. is up to them to prove me wrong and change my opinion.. and I sure hope so .. because as of right now ? It does not look good... at least for me. And vaporware lists are not enough to change my mind. As ND and Factions just proved everything is vaporware until it is not.

I share your concern. Based on the stats RGB'D cited, Sony has cut in half their investment in single-player games. How could that not make a difference?

 

[TheKratos]

I can't recall a single Sony GaaS game

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

I think there is a realistic concern. Their own internal presentation showed that the plan was to drop traditional AAA funding to 45% by 2025 and raising live service funding to 55%. If the budget goes from 88% traditional funding 12% live service (2019 budget) to 55% live service, 45% traditional there is no way that they will be able to maintain single player release cadence. Especially in the setting of inflation/ballooning production costs. These numbers are all pulled from SONYs presentation to investors directly from their own charts.

I'm sorry but this is just an obscene misrepresentation of the data they showed. You're being very disingenuous with your framing and you know you are.

They aren't dropping investment in SP games at all. They are expanding total investment to cover an increase in GaaS investment. That traditional games will make up a lower proportion of development investment makes sense when they've essentially doubled overall development investment.

Don't spread misinformation.

I share your concern. Based on the stats RGB'D cited, Sony has cut in half their investment in single-player games. How could that not make a difference?

NO. THEY. HAVEN'T!

They are doubling their overall investment such that SP investment makes up a smaller proportion of the total, but investment in SP games has increased.

The graphs are in this very thread. Stop propagating misinformation and educate yourself, people.

 

[Humdinger]

NO. THEY. HAVEN'T!

They are doubling their overall investment such that SP investment makes up a smaller proportion of the total, but investment in SP games has increased.

The graphs are in this very thread. Stop propagating misinformation and educate yourself, people.

Ok, fair enough. Thanks for the clarification. I didn't read the whole thread.

However, I reserve the right to remain concerned. Even if the monetary expenditure isn't changed, the overall prioritization clearly has.

And I'm not sure what impact inflation would have on those figures, either. It's possible that the 2025 figure would actually be less than 2019, if it were adjusted for inflation (hard to say, since there isn't a Y axis label). Not to mention the ever-ballooning game budgets, which means the money doesn't go as far as it used to.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Ok, fair enough. Thanks for the clarification. I didn't read the whole thread.

However, I reserve the right to remain concerned. Even if the monetary expenditure isn't changed, the overall prioritization clearly has.

Not at all.

GaaS games cost more, because you have to have a core team working on the main game (and expansions) as well as a second (and potentially third) team building the quarterly update content drops that have to be released on a frequent cadence to maintain player engagement.

The graphs are dollar value, so clearly the cost of one team making a SP game over 4 yrs, versus 3x teams working on a GaaS game are not equal.

And I'm not sure what impact inflation would have on those figures, either. It's possible that the 2025 figure would actually be less than 2019, if it were adjusted for inflation (hard to say, since there isn't a Y axis label). Not to mention the ever-ballooning game budgets, which means the money doesn't go as far as it used to.

The graph represents development cost, the majority of which is dev salaries. Inflation is irrelevant because salaries don't go up with inflation. Salaries have been stagnant in most industries for years.

-----

You're also missing the point of this new strategy. GaaS games are higher risk. A majority of them fail to take hold, but those that do grow into some of the highest-grossing games in the world. So Sony is investing hard on a handful of GaaS games now (not into perpetuity), so that if at least one of them is a hit, it will generate enough revenue to bankroll all their SP games moving forward and then some. It's not an unreasonable strategy.

They aren't shifting focus at all. The folks trying to push this narrative are simply misreading the available information.

 

[Bernardougf]

Not at all.

GaaS games cost more, because you have to have a core team working on the main game (and expansions) as well as a second (and potentially third) team building the quarterly update content drops that have to be released on a frequent cadence to maintain player engagement.

The graphs are dollar value, so clearly the cost of one team making a SP game over 4 yrs, versus 3x teams working on a GaaS game are not equal.



The graph represents development cost, the majority of which is dev salaries. Inflation is irrelevant because salaries don't go up with inflation. Salaries have been stagnant in most industries for years.

-----

You're also missing the point of this new strategy. GaaS games are higher risk. A majority of them fail to take hold, but those that do grow into some of the highest-grossing games in the world. So Sony is investing hard on a handful of GaaS games now (not into perpetuity), so that if at least one of them is a hit, it will generate enough revenue to bankroll all their SP games moving forward and then some. It's not an unreasonable strategy.

They aren't shifting focus at all. The folks trying to push this narrative are simply misreading the available information.

Denial is one hell of a drug... Ill give you that

So let me get this straight......

people seeing sony and Jim talking openly about their Gaas/mp push and importance moving forward, the new distribution of money for the gaming division, the entrance on pc market, the importance of Bungie, their heavly gaas main showcase for the year, the lack of first party SP titles announced for the next year or two... they are pushing a false crazy narrative ?

But the people just pure guessing based on tales form their asses without ZERO official information about what sony will do with their gaas money if they hit the gaas jackpot and their plans for the future if they succeed in the gaas market, those people are the ones not pushing a narrative and thinking only based on the reality placed before their eyes ?.

Well... you do you I guess

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

So let me get this straight......

people seeing sony and Jim talking openly about their Gaas/mp push and importance moving forward, the new distribution of money for the gaming division, the entrance on pc market, the importance of Bungie, their heavly gaas main showcase for the year, the lack of first party SP titles announced for the next year or two... they are pushing a false crazy narrative ?

Err.... yes.

But the people just pure guessing based on tales form their asses without ZERO official information about what sony will do with their gaas money if they hit the gaas jackpot and their plans for the future if they succeed in the gaas market, those people are the ones not pushing a narrative and thinking only based on the reality placed before their eyes ?.

No... i'm speculating what Sony will do with their GaaS money because the entire fucking success of Sony's Playstation platform has been off the back of SP traditional games.

If you think that my saying, "Sony will continue doing what made them successful" is tales from my ass and incomprehensively unlikely then you're so delusional that I can't even comprehend trying to continue this debate with someone so entirely divorced from reality.

 

[Bernardougf]

Err.... yes.



No... i'm speculating what Sony will do with their GaaS money because the entire fucking success of Sony's Playstation platform has been off the back of SP traditional games.

If you think that my saying, "Sony will continue doing what made them successful" is tales from my ass and incomprehensively unlikely then you're so delusional that I can't even comprehend trying to continue this debate with someone so entirely divorced from reality.

Oh one of us really has a problem with reality ... I wont deny that

 

[SSfox]

What do you guys think?

I already said what i have to say about Jimbo and Hermen

To sum it again: They stinks.

 

[adamsapple]

I already said what i have to say about Jimbo and Hermen

To sum it again: They stinks.

Let me ask a genuine question.

What makes anyone think the next person might be any different. Jim's got a sect of people who hate him for his decisions, but his decisions have made Sony/Playstation more money than ever before.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Oh one of us really has a problem with reality ... I wont deny that

You think that Sony is discontinuing making SP games and that in a future where a GaaS game becomes a hit, them continuing to make SP games is an implausible eventuality.

You're clearly the delusional one.

 

[SSfox]

Let me ask a genuine question.

What makes anyone think the next person might be any different. Jim's got a sect of people who hate him for his decisions, but his decisions have made Sony/Playstation more money than ever before.

No one knows what's gonna be with next CEO, but we know Jim and Hermen sucks ass and destroyed all their prodecessors had build in the Playstation Brand

I know that you Xbox fanboys all you care about is "hOw mUcH MonEY iT mAkeS", but we Sony fans are built different, of course it's nice to see your favorite brand making money, but it's even more important to see them making great moves and great games.

 

[adamsapple]

No one knows what's gonna be with next CEO, but we know Jim and Hermen sucks ass and destroyed all their prodecessors had build in the Playstation Brand

I know that you Xbox fanboys all you care about is "hOw mUcH MonEY iT mAkeS", but we Sony fans are built different, of course it's nice to see your favorite brand making money, but it's even more important to see them making great moves and great games.

I'm laughing at reading this, but it's completely uncalled for lol

 

[Bernardougf]

Let me ask a genuine question.

What makes anyone think the next person might be any different. Jim's got a sect of people who hate him for his decisions, but his decisions have made Sony/Playstation more money than ever before.

The problem is that with this kind of announcements (Jim's retirement) we never really know what happened.

Maybe he presented a reality for the company that they reaaly didnt like it in the long run, or maybe he was so successful in their eyes that He chose to leave when still on top.

Maybe this gaas/pc push was all on him and now the company wants new direction ? Or maybe they want someone with even bigger experience on gaas ? Who the fuck knows ...

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Not at all.

GaaS games cost more, because you have to have a core team working on the main game (and expansions) as well as a second (and potentially third) team building the quarterly update content drops that have to be released on a frequent cadence to maintain player engagement.

I'm trying to think how big the team is for CSGO and League of Legends...considering how small+infrequent their content drops are and how bonkers huge their player bases are.

The graphs are dollar value, so clearly the cost of one team making a SP game over 4 yrs, versus 3x teams working on a GaaS game are not equal.

Show us the data you have for GAAS games. I think most of us know modern AAA budgets are a certain size but Valheim, Rocket League, Fall Guys, Fortnite, CSGO etc...what data are you looking at?

So Sony is investing hard on a handful of GaaS games now (not into perpetuity), so that if at least one of them is a hit, it will generate enough revenue to bankroll all their SP games moving forward and then some. It's not an unreasonable strategy.

If you own a donut shop and introduce coffee...and all of a sudden your coffee is making way more money than your donuts...you're reinvesting your revenue into coffee, not donuts.

History: Blizzard and Epic Games started out making SP games. They now make coffee.

They aren't shifting focus at all. The folks trying to push this narrative are simply misreading the available information.

If focus is defined as "Where is the bulk of your attention located" then they have certainly shifted focus.

 

[SSfox]

I'm laughing at reading this, but it's completely uncalled for lol

Wow, you don't even realize the gravity of your situation, it's even worse than i though actually

 

[Bernardougf]

I'm trying to think how big the team is for CSGO and League of Legends...considering how small+infrequent their content drops are and how bonkers huge their player bases are.


Show us the data you have for GAAS games. I think most of us know modern AAA budgets are a certain size but Valheim, Rocket League, Fall Guys, Fortnite, CSGO etc...what data are you looking at?


If you own a donut shop and introduce coffee...and all of a sudden your coffee is making way more money than your donuts...you're reinvesting your revenue into coffee, not donuts.

History: Blizzard and Epic Games started out making SP games. They now make coffee.

If focus is defined as "Where is the bulk of your attention located" then they have certainly shifted focus.

I think you going to have to try harder.. the brother lives in dream land

Perfect post btw

 

[Bernardougf]

You think that Sony is discontinuing making SP games and that in a future where a GaaS game becomes a hit, them continuing to make SP games is an implausible eventuality.

You're clearly the delusional one.

If you find where I said it they will STOP making SP games .. I'll eat the crow and correct myself ...

Let me ask you a question... so sony is swimming in their successes in SP games and find this so good that they chose to pursue the Gaas/Mp crowd and dollars, and give the BIGGER unprecedented budget ok .

Once and IF they achieve success and become a well oiled Gaas money printing machine they will

A) Continue to invest even more and concetrate more and more resources on the cash cow that is Gaas and is making them bazillions of dollars

B) Use the gaas money to invest in the development of their now much more less lucrative and expensive SP studios because "iZz for the playas" and nostalgia

.....

So the real question is do you think they care about freacking money or about your feelings?

 

[foamdino]

No, saying that games that dont have a name and still dosent exist and that havent even being announced is not the same as saying "they have no gamez"... and yes any game from any company that does not existis vaporware for list wars until they do ..... I dont give any company not matter which any benefit of doubt, I trust only in what I can see and what they choose to show me ... you want to live based on linkedin jobs, supposed greenlighted and pitched games is on you... not everybody has to live like that ... Sony has games but they chose to do their showcase this year of the games for the foreseeable future heavily focused on Mp and GaaS with only Sipider Man to account for in the first party SP helm, and the message Jimbo has been pushing is pretty clear(gaas and pc) ... so for now for me and my eyes thats what they have ... when they do their next showcase and announce their next lineup Ill reevaluate my opinion.

And to close...

Im asking: what they have shown until now ? And you keep answering with "this is what they will show ****probably*** in the future....

So until you want to discuss the facts shown to you and not promisses that even sony didnt make ... there is no point in continuing this discussion... want to live of "what ifs ? Fanboy land" Be my guess.. im out

I get where you are coming from.

Sony have not been showing first party games for a while. That is true, they've shown a few things that are exclusive or published but not first party.

It's also accurate to state that the Sony first party studios are working away on a bunch of games. The list of studios that haven't revealed their next game yet is quite long now.

So you can be worried that there's not enough gameplay of games coming soon revealed, I get that.

On the other hand Sony seem to have a delivery calendar in place where they show off a game for a particular quarter and do the marketing blitz around that game.

Hogwarts, FFXIV, now spiderman2

It seems to be well planned to ensure maximum coverage of the game that is releasing at the moment in time.

It isn't however a peek behind the curtain to see what will be coming in the future. Which can be frustrating, especially when there are a few announcements around gaas games but less around single player games.

I can understand your frustration, or worry while at the same time I can acknowledge the opposite argument that there a bunch of Sony dev teams working away on games that will be announced at some point.

I guess it boils down to if you are happy with the lack of previews of future games or not.

 

[Humdinger]

Not at all.
[....]

You're welcome to your opinion, but I disagree. To me, this clearly does represent a shift in emphasis.

You're also missing the point of this new strategy. GaaS games are higher risk. A majority of them fail to take hold, but those that do grow into some of the highest-grossing games in the world. So Sony is investing hard on a handful of GaaS games now (not into perpetuity), so that if at least one of them is a hit, it will generate enough revenue to bankroll all their SP games moving forward and then some. It's not an unreasonable strategy.

No, I get the point of the strategy -- make money. Not too hard to figure out. The second part -- what they do with that money -- is your own speculation. Whether that happens or not, who knows. You are welcome to trust in Sony to funnel it back into SP games. I'm skeptical.

 

[Humdinger]

Let me ask a genuine question.

What makes anyone think the next person might be any different. Jim's got a sect of people who hate him for his decisions, but his decisions have made Sony/Playstation more money than ever before.

I really don't think he/she will be much different -- any more than Phil's successor, should he step down, would be substantially different. These are both huge megacorps, and the people who rise to prominence in them necessarily will be company men. It's like the people who rise to the top in the Democrat or Republican party: they are almost always products of the machine.

 

[Bernardougf]

I get where you are coming from.

Sony have not been showing first party games for a while. That is true, they've shown a few things that are exclusive or published but not first party.

It's also accurate to state that the Sony first party studios are working away on a bunch of games. The list of studios that haven't revealed their next game yet is quite long now.

So you can be worried that there's not enough gameplay of games coming soon revealed, I get that.

On the other hand Sony seem to have a delivery calendar in place where they show off a game for a particular quarter and do the marketing blitz around that game.

Hogwarts, FFXIV, now spiderman2

It seems to be well planned to ensure maximum coverage of the game that is releasing at the moment in time.

It isn't however a peek behind the curtain to see what will be coming in the future. Which can be frustrating, especially when there are a few announcements around gaas games but less around single player games.

I can understand your frustration, or worry while at the same time I can acknowledge the opposite argument that there a bunch of Sony dev teams working away on games that will be announced at some point.

I guess it boils down to if you are happy with the lack of previews of future games or not.

Thank you for the well thought out post and counter argument, Ill agree with everything you said BUT you mentioned SM2... and together with other big first party games like (GT7,Ragnorok,Forbidden West) was announced 2 years previous to their launch... so if we take only big first party games and their launch period we can safely assume that anything not announced until the end of this year is at best an end 2025 game ... we can hope for Wolverine next year but I really doubt we will get two major Insomniac releases in back to back years...

They will have games ? Sure.. they will continue to make sp games ? Sure ... but the shifting in priorities at this moment seems pretty clear ... they can obviously change and or be proved wrong by some announcements with a shorter "waiting" period

But as of right now.. it is what it is ..

But good points nonetheless

 

[yurinka]

No, saying that games that dont have a name and still dosent exist and that havent even being announced is not the same as saying "they have no gamez"...

and yes any game from any company that does not existis vaporware for list wars until they do .....

I dont give any company not matter which any benefit of doubt, I trust only in what I can see and what they choose to show me ...

We know these games exist and are under development via official sources, independently if publicly shown or announced. And we know in which year they started to work on it looking when these development teams (not studios) released the previous games or (in case of being first game of the studio) when they founded the studio. This is all factual data, no "benefit of doubt" is required.

You instead say they don't exist and are vaporware, just like a gaming flatearther.

you want to live based on linkedin jobs, supposed greenlighted and pitched games is on you... not everybody has to live like that ...

Of course, gaming flatearthers like you think that:

• When the game director of a game says on their LinkedIn has been working on that studio/game since a certain month he's lying and such game doesn't exist, he has been sitting there doing nothing for 5 years.
• When Housemarque say that after Returnal they are working on a bigger game they are lying, such game doesn't exist and they aren't doing anything.
• When Hermen says that Bend is working on a new IP he's lying and such game doesn't exist.
• When Insomniac announces that after Miles Morales their team moved to work on Wolverine they are lying and the game doesn't exist.
• Studios with a single dev team don't greenlight and start working on a new game when they complete the previous one: instead they do nothing for years until their next game gets publicly announced, a game that doesn't exist until then
• When a game gets shown (I assume you mean to show gameplay instead of a CG or logo), instead of showing something that required years of work to have that the game didn't exist until it was shown: magically the game gets created that day.

Sony has games but they chose to do their showcase this year of the games for the foreseeable future heavily focused on Mp and GaaS with only Sipider Man to account for in the first party SP helm

Sony showcased many single player games in that same showcase, and in many other events across this and many other years. But in this specific case, most of them were 3rd party.

To act as if the only games under development at Sony were the ones shown in a single video when they released, shown, announced or mentioned many other upcoming or recent ones, including many single player ones is a gaming flatearther thing.

Im asking: what they have shown until now ?

According to you maybe nothing, because you prefer to believe in fantasies instead of accepting reality.

So until you want to discuss the facts

I provided two big lists full of facts.

You instead say nonsense like that unannounced or announced but now shown games don't exist, and that Sony devs lie on their linkedin, interviews and public announcements.

You're the one who should accept facts and start to use facts instead of nonsense to back you claims.

 

[Humdinger]

Good to know Sony is quadrupling down on this shite . I'm sure everything will be fine.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

I don't know how old you guys are, but I remember the Sony that lead the industry with cool ass Japanese games. They had all the Japanese third party games. This PlayStation is a very different PlayStation now, and it seems they are in the midst of another grand evolution as we speak. Who knows what kind of butterfly they'll turn into this time.

 

[RGB'D]

I'm sorry but this is just an obscene misrepresentation of the data they showed. You're being very disingenuous with your framing and you know you are.

They aren't dropping investment in SP games at all. They are expanding total investment to cover an increase in GaaS investment. That traditional games will make up a lower proportion of development investment makes sense when they've essentially doubled overall development investment.

Don't spread misinformation.



NO. THEY. HAVEN'T!

They are doubling their overall investment such that SP investment makes up a smaller proportion of the total, but investment in SP games has increased.

The graphs are in this very thread. Stop propagating misinformation and educate yourself, people.

They aren't perfectly doubling investment... the math equates to less financial funding of traditional. And also we have record inflation and ballooning costs, the value of the investment does not equal the same buying power as in years prior. It's naive to think that the percentage investment shift is going to mean a sustained single party release cadence. This isn't disingenuous... i literally used objective data. As the only games I have a PS5 for are the traditional output and I legitimately am concerned with their current strategy. This is a fundamental shift in ideology.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

They aren't perfectly doubling investment... the math equates to less financial funding of traditional.

How do you arrive at this conclusion

And also we have record inflation and ballooning costs, the value of the investment does not equal the same buying power as in years prior.

Not for dev salaries, which is what this graph represents. And not between 2019 and 2025.

You folks are going to great lengths to try to spin this narrative. It's kinda hilarious and kinda pathetic to watch.

Bottom line. Sony's bread and butter business for their FP games development is SP traditional games. To think they will abandon that for unproven GaaS is delusional and just shows an ignorance of how businesses work. They don't sacrifice their core business for new ventures. They sustain their core business while shoring up new ventures to continue profit growth. This is about growth, not shifting business interests.

 

[DrFigs]

Good to know Sony is quadrupling down on this shite . I'm sure everything will be fine.

I wish people were more objective about live service games. is it really the case that call of duty was better when people had to buy individual map packs for 15 dollars a piece? or is it better now that those things are free and most of the extra content, which is largely just cosmetics, can now be earned by just playing the game.

 

[Humdinger]

I wish people were more objective about live service games. is it really the case that call of duty was better when people had to buy individual map packs for 15 dollars a piece? or is it better now that those things are free and most of the extra content, which is largely just cosmetics, can now be earned by just playing the game.

He covers those issues from 12:40 to 14:30. Cut content, replacement of satisfying in-game progression systems with Battle Pass bundles that are less engaging, games designed around FOMO, etc. It's not a matter of being "objective;" it's a matter of perspective and opinion. From the comments, it's clear that many people agree with him.

 

[mckmas8808]

Sony's live service pivot "may not pay off the way Jim Ryan had once hoped", says industry insider

Sony is reportedly "uncomfortable" about outgoing PlayStation boss Jim Ryan's pivot to games as a service.

www.eurogamer.net

What do you guys think?

To me this is the most important sentence....

Sony is reportedly "uncomfortable" about outgoing PlayStation boss Jim Ryan's pivot to games as a service.

I'm so happy Sony kicked Jim Ryan to the curb.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

To me this is the most important sentence....

Sony is reportedly "uncomfortable" about outgoing PlayStation boss Jim Ryan's pivot to games as a service.

I'm so happy Sony kicked Jim Ryan to the curb.

Sony isn't a person and this isn't "reporting"

Jim Ryan likely hasn't been kicked to the curb. He's worked for Sony for 30 years... He's 63 years old working in the US while his family is in Europe.

But whatever floats your biased view.

That this article has released without a source or more importantly sources, and before even a single game is released is wildly out of touch with reality.

 

[DrFigs]

Sony isn't a person and this isn't "reporting"

Jim Ryan likely hasn't been kicked to the curb. He's worked for Sony for 30 years... He's 63 years old working in the US while his family is in Europe.

But whatever floats your biased view.

That this article has released without a source or more importantly sources, and before even a single game is released is wildly out of touch with reality.

There is some really bad videogames journalism, but "a company's plan may not work out like they think it will" is maybe the laziest bit of "reporting" i've seen in years. It doesn't even try to contribute anything to Schreier's article.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

There is some really bad videogames journalism, but "a company's plan may not work out like they think it will" is maybe the laziest bit of "reporting" i've seen in years. It doesn't even try to contribute anything to Schreier's article.

Like there is no one on neogaf that has less interest in live service games than I do. I don't even play any online games, but this level of bias against Sony entering a business model that is clearly generating significant revenue in the industry is kind of wild.

Will every game be successful? Obviously not. Hell, even if their entire first slate of games were failures, I'm not sure this take would be warranted.

I think people are really struggling with the reality that these games take too long to develop for all of them to be one and done. For every Ghost of Tsushima you have a Returnal. For games like Day's Gone where you aren't able to build a franchise, you almost end up starting at ground zero, which has its own risks involved.

Sony needs to drastically increase its operating income and its revenue outside of AAA gaming. Their goal should be to release 1-2 big AAA games a year, which kind of makes it laughable that Microsoft wants to promise 4. Even Sony is lucky to put out 2.5 AAA games a year with one being a remake/remaster. But when one of those games doesn't hit... there goes your year's operating income and profit. That's not sustainable.

That's why Sony is looking to get into film/tv production that can produce throughout the year, "premium" accessories, PC releases, remasters/remakes, live service. It's also why I think they'll eventually put out a PC storefront to rival Steam.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Like there is no one on neogaf that has less interest in live service games than I do. I don't even play any online games, but this level of bias against Sony entering a business model that is clearly generating significant revenue in the industry is kind of wild.

Will every game be successful? Obviously not. Hell, even if their entire first slate of games were failures, I'm not sure this take would be warranted.

I think people are really struggling with the reality that these games take too long to develop for all of them to be one and done. For every Ghost of Tsushima you have a Returnal. For games like Day's Gone where you aren't able to build a franchise, you almost end up starting at ground zero, which has its own risks involved.

Sony needs to drastically increase its operating income and its revenue outside of AAA gaming. Their goal should be to release 1-2 big AAA games a year, which kind of makes it laughable that Microsoft wants to promise 4. Even Sony is lucky to put out 2.5 AAA games a year with one being a remake/remaster. But when one of those games doesn't hit... there goes your year's operating income and profit. That's not sustainable.

That's why Sony is looking to get into film/tv production that can produce throughout the year, "premium" accessories, PC releases, remasters/remakes, live service. It's also why I think they'll eventually put out a PC storefront to rival Steam.

There seems to be a strong correlation between people who prefer SP games and those who can't engage with market strategy discussions. I can't stand games like Spiderman, God of War, Uncharterd etc...but it's very easy for me to say "Hell yes, PlayStation should be making more of those games. They make too much money to ignore."

You do not get that in the "GAAS bad" camp.

 

[Thirty7ven]

They aren't perfectly doubling investment... the math equates to less financial funding of traditional. And also we have record inflation and ballooning costs, the value of the investment does not equal the same buying power as in years prior. It's naive to think that the percentage investment shift is going to mean a sustained single party release cadence. This isn't disingenuous... i literally used objective data. As the only games I have a PS5 for are the traditional output and I legitimately am concerned with their current strategy. This is a fundamental shift in ideology.

Oh yeah? Show it to me. Because apparently you are throwing inflation in there as in what, cost of living? Housing? Food? Electricity? Is that it? Or are you saying salaries are rising 1:1 with inflation? And are these salaries updated yearly or something? Does in house tech also get more expensive?

Doesn’t look like you know what you’re talking about.

 

[mckmas8808]

Like there is no one on neogaf that has less interest in live service games than I do. I don't even play any online games, but this level of bias against Sony entering a business model that is clearly generating significant revenue in the industry is kind of wild.

Will every game be successful? Obviously not. Hell, even if their entire first slate of games were failures, I'm not sure this take would be warranted.

I think people are really struggling with the reality that these games take too long to develop for all of them to be one and done. For every Ghost of Tsushima you have a Returnal. For games like Day's Gone where you aren't able to build a franchise, you almost end up starting at ground zero, which has its own risks involved.

Sony needs to drastically increase its operating income and its revenue outside of AAA gaming. Their goal should be to release 1-2 big AAA games a year, which kind of makes it laughable that Microsoft wants to promise 4. Even Sony is lucky to put out 2.5 AAA games a year with one being a remake/remaster. But when one of those games doesn't hit... there goes your year's operating income and profit. That's not sustainable.

That's why Sony is looking to get into film/tv production that can produce throughout the year, "premium" accessories, PC releases, remasters/remakes, live service. It's also why I think they'll eventually put out a PC storefront to rival Steam.

Dude are you serious?! You make GAAS seem like roses. lol

- Returnal is SUCCESSFUL. Not sure why you are making it a failure.
- Day's Gone is a franchise that Sony decided to walk away from. The first game has performance issues, but gamers liked that game alot. 100% more once the performance issues were fixed. Sony didn't need to abandon it.
- 1-2 big AAA games a year is TERRIBLE. The goal should be 3-4 a year. Keep in mind, I consider MLB The Show to be a AAA game.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Dude are you serious?! You make GAAS seem like roses. lol

He just pointed to the fact that they make the bulk of the revenue in this market we all love. How is that making GAAS seem like roses?

- Returnal is SUCCESSFUL. Not sure why you are making it a failure.

Returnal was only successful in the fact that PlayStation saw enough in the studio to invest further into it. Selling 560k copies 3 months after launch is brutal. Zero chance that's anywhere close to the sales target of their next game.

- 1-2 big AAA games a year is TERRIBLE. The goal should be 3-4 a year.

PlayStation needs to buy an ABK if they want to release 3 - 4 big AAA games a year. Until then, they have to make GAAS as GAAS gamers don't need or want 3 - 4 big games a year.

 

[mckmas8808]

He just pointed to the fact that they make the bulk of the revenue in this market we all love. How is that making GAAS seem like roses?

Returnal was only successful in the fact that PlayStation saw enough in the studio to invest further into it. Selling 560k copies 3 months after launch is brutal. Zero chance that's anywhere close to the sales target of their next game.


PlayStation needs to buy an ABK if they want to release 3 - 4 big AAA games a year. Until then, they have to make GAAS as GAAS gamers don't need or want 3 - 4 big games a year.

- Everything is judged by the budget and expectations. Returnal wasn't a very expensive game to make. No way it costs $150 million to make. Please it was released as a launch window game. A half a million in 3 months isn't bad at all.

- Sony shouldn't base their AAA SP output based on what GAAS gamers want. Screw what they want. Sony will need to do a good job maintaining balance. MLB The Show comes out every spring. So now Sony needs 3 other AAA games per year after that. That shouldn't be that hard. And I count AAA GAAS games too. If Factions had come out this year, it would have counted as one of the 4 big Sony games per year.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Dude are you serious?! You make GAAS seem like roses. lol

- Returnal is SUCCESSFUL. Not sure why you are making it a failure.
- Day's Gone is a franchise that Sony decided to walk away from. The first game has performance issues, but gamers liked that game alot. 100% more once the performance issues were fixed. Sony didn't need to abandon it.
- 1-2 big AAA games a year is TERRIBLE. The goal should be 3-4 a year. Keep in mind, I consider MLB The Show to be a AAA game.

I make GaaS seem like roses when I say I'm the least interested person in GaaS at neogaf?

Jesus christ...

Returnal may have broke even or even created net profit, but it is not succesful in the sense that it sold PlayStation consoles or created a franchise, which is ultimately what Sony is looking to do with their properties. Maybe we'll see some Alien-esque Edge of Tomorrow movie built around Returnal.

Sony Bend walked away from Day's Gone, not Sony. The user reviews aren't all that high on Day's Gone either.

3-4 is a pipe dream. Can you tell me years in which 3-4 AAA hits were released by any manufacturer with any consistency? You mention MLB the Show, but that's a bit of a joke.

 

[RGB'D]

Oh yeah? Show it to me. Because apparently you are throwing inflation in there as in what, cost of living? Housing? Food? Electricity? Is that it? Or are you saying salaries are rising 1:1 with inflation? And are these salaries updated yearly or something? Does in house tech also get more expensive?

Doesn’t look like you know what you’re talking about.

Inflation doesn't affect economics... got it. There is no correlation with inflation and tech layoffs. There is no correlation with inflation and recession.