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Eurovision Song Contest 2016 |OT| San Marino: "I didn't know - anyone but Serhat :("

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S

StopMakingSense

Member
DrM said:
I mean how did they get, for example 150something points for Austria? From grand total of votes that Austria received in all 42 countries or how?
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It's the exact same as the jury vote, they just didn't do the country by country thing and totaled them up ahead of time.
 
N

Nexus Zero

Member
mclem said:
The awkward issue is that, strictly speaking, it's literally a *song* contest. It's meant to be the song being judged, not the performance. The intent is that the expert juries are meant to focus on the song itself because the televote may get influenced by the performance on the night.

In practice, of course, the influence of that is impossible to judge, but I daresay Sweden last year and Russia this year were heavily favoured by having staging far superior to many other. I wouldn't be too surprised if we saw more projection-based stuff next year.
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Maybe it should be standardised then. Because the Russian song was abysmal, they just had an excellent performance.
 
S

SporeCrawler

Member
Red Arremer said:
Germany tends to do well if their song is good, just like everybody else tends to do well if their song is good. They even won a few years back, believe it or not.
The thing is, however, that Germany doesn't have to go through the semi process. I think they'd try harder if they didn't have a guaranteed spot in the finals. And if they qualified for the finals, they definitely would do better, since someone had to vote for them.

The lowest placing semi-finalist was the Czech Republic who ended up with 41 points despite the fact they got 0 from televoting.

But since Germoney is waving that cash at the EBU (and I guarantee that it was Germany who initiated the Big 5 rule in the first place...), they can send whatever shite and consistently end up in the low end of the scoreboard.

The same goes for the UK, by the way, and to a lesser extent France. At the very least Spain and Italy try, and France realized that "hey, good songs tend to do well!" as well and has been fairly consistently sending solid stuff in the past 7 or so years.
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Germany won like less than 10 years ago right? Satelite it was? Anyways this year they had xavier naidoo lined up but he dropped out due to a controversy about his political views and the year before the winner of the candidate choosing process just said "fuck it guyz im out"
 
A

Always-honest

Banned
What a showcase of mediocrity this always is. Just horrible music, unfunny shit (though this time there were some small funny parts). I think we as a country should decide never to enter again.

The winner was the most horrible thing i've seen in years.

ESC just proves what a horrible taste most people have.
Imo it was really embarrassing to watch.
Sorry for being so harsh.

Text message voting: not sure. Maybe a good thing, maybe not. Can't decide yet. Probably good.

And what the FUCK with all the optical illusions?! Just laughable.
 
P

protomouse

Member
UK flopping like always. The BBC too cheap to send something that might actually have a chance of winning, but not cheap enough to stop paying for a seat in the competition.
 
L

LonelyGreyWolf

Banned
StopMakingSense said:
Eh, it's just a reflection of how bad the entries for Eurovision were this year. Extremely forgettable, so IMO it's not really worth getting too worked up over who won.
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Too harsh. It wasn't that bad imo. I'd consider most of the songs good, albeit not amazing. There's about five songs that I'd consider especially good -- not amazing -- but certainly not bad.
 
Z

Zelias

Banned
Australia should have won, but not too unhappy with Ukraine. Least it wasn't Russia - that amazing performance can't mask how totally forgettable their song was.
 
Dice

Dice

Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
If it's strictly about the song then The Netherlands was far and away the best, but I guess Europe isn't quite ready for such American sensibilities. Made it pretty far, though.
 
S

StopMakingSense

Member
LonelyGreyWolf said:
Too harsh. It wasn't that bad imo. I'd consider most of the songs good, albeit not amazing. There's about five songs that I'd consider especially good -- not amazing -- but certainly not bad.
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I guess that's more what I meant by bad, there weren't any standouts song-wise. Some okay/good songs, but, as a whole, a bad selection to choose from.
 
O

oti

Banned
Dice said:
If it's strictly about the song then The Netherlands was far and away the best, but I guess Europe isn't quite ready for such American sensibilities. Made it pretty far, though.
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uF9MjJo3QIaijySXC4iL_Confused%20Christian%20Bale.gif
 
V

Violet_0

Banned
I wanted to see what happens if Australia wins, though they probably would have hosted it in the UK or some other European country. It also would have increased the chance of other countries around the world joining the contest and make it a truly epic clusterfuck
 
Deft Beck

Deft Beck

Member
Australia's song had a good singer but was lyrically and compositionally empty. Crazy people in this thread who think it should have won.

Congrats to Ukraine, the deserved winner.

Side note: How in Hell did Poland get eighth place?
 
S

spekkeh

Banned
Dice said:
If it's strictly about the song then The Netherlands was far and away the best, but I guess Europe isn't quite ready for such American sensibilities. Made it pretty far, though.
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You're not wrong. It was one of the only well produced pop songs. The rest was just a whole bunch of amateur cheese, but with nice stage shows. Too bad the song itself was pretty boring. I didn't even think it would survive the semi.
 
F

FeelTheKick

Member
Deft Beck said:
Australia's song had a good singer but was lyrically and compositionally empty. Crazy people in this thread who think it should have won.

Congrats to Ukraine, the deserved winner.

Side note: How in Hell did Poland get eighth place?
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It got eight because people voted for them while jury did not. Is it really that hard for you to accept that people liked it ?
 
S

SecretMoblin

Member
lol, another year, another gaf thread

Poland's song wasn't aimed at the GAF eurovision viewing crowd. You can't explain its success by hand-waving it as "those immigrants". The people who watch the grand final and vote are a very different audience than the hardcore fans or the GAFfers who pretend to watch the contest ironically and then whine when their faves don't win.


Sesuadra said:
I really hope that we get som american reviews in the new york times and on CNN tomorrow. I want to hear what americans thought about the ESC.
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Media here is taking a predictable tack, one I'm sure many European news outlets are also taking: it's a political win aimed at Russia.

NYT
CNN

Courage said:
Still mad at La La Love getting robbed a few years ago.
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preach!

oti xero said:
I think the EBU has some decision making to do. For the second time the public's favourite (last year Italy, this year Russia) didn't win. This time around Ukraine didn't win either the jury nor the public vote, and yet she won the whole thing (again, I'm glad she won, she was my favourite entry).

But this begs the question if people are bound to lose interest in this if they feel like their favourite can't win, no matter how many times they vote. Just look at Poland, without the juries it would've been Top 5.

I think the juries are a good idea, to balance things out. Otherwise the most brain dead generic party pop songs would win year after year. But I'm not so sure that we need to give them so much attention and power. Maybe 40/60 or 30/70 with the public vote being the bigger part would be better. I don't know. There's no easy answer for this.

Regarding Germany: It's our own fault. The national final was terrible. If they really want to win this thing they should copy the Swedish system. Just stop complaining. "But she was so great" yadayadayada, shut up. It's as if you've never seen a Eurovision contest in your life before.
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The system is messy, but Ukraine didn't win by a lot and it was a consensus win -- much like Azerbaijan in 2011. Both winning songs didn't even win their semi but managed to eke out a victory on finale night. The fact that all countries vote in the final and that there's a (much) bigger audience means the results can shift a little, which they generally do. We've just been ruined by "sure thing" winners several times over the last few years, with Germany/Norway/Sweden/Denmark/Sweden being preseason favorites that never really faltered.

This year we had countries like Norway giving their jury win to Italy (?) and Cyprus giving their televote to Bulgaria (?). Greece wasn't in the final. Several former Yugoslavian countries didn't final. Romania and Portugal weren't competing and weren't allowed to vote. A few of these things being different could have meant a different result. The jury sucks but if it's going to be a part of this thing then it's best to make it as visible and transparent as possible imo.


AGREED 100% re: Germany. There's so much talent in that country and it's a damn shame that their Eurovision team is such a disaster. ARD has the resources to make Germany a regular top 10 finisher if it wanted. The circumstances this year were odd, but they had plenty of time to figure shit out and they didn't. You probably would have fared better this year by going full schlager with Ella Endlich.


Dice said:
If it's strictly about the song then The Netherlands was far and away the best, but I guess Europe isn't quite ready for such American sensibilities. Made it pretty far, though.
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I take it you haven't watched much Eurovision lol
 
P

Pifje

Member
Belgium, Bulgaria, and Australia were my clear favourites, so seeing the utterly shit Ukraine song win after the win of jury votes was just ridiculous.

Ukraine winning was 100 % political, and while I do, of course, understand why people are supporting them, a song this shitty should not place in the top 10, let alone win the whole contest when there were some actually good songs and performances in the competition. I do hope Eurovision changes their policies regarding politics.
 
A

Aiii

So not worth it
Pifje said:
Belgium, Bulgaria, and Australia were my clear favourites, so seeing the utterly shit Ukraine song win after the win of jury votes was just ridiculous.

Ukraine winning was 100 % political, and while I do, of course, understand why people are supporting them, a song this shitty should not place in the top 10, let alone win the whole contest when there were some actually good songs and performances in the competition. I do hope Eurovision changes their policies regarding politics.
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There's nothing to change, it's a popularity contest, not a singing contest. It's never going to be a singing contest.
 
Dice

Dice

Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
Whatever one thinks about the quality of the song, it was blatantly political. With their no-politics rules deeming this vague enough to pass, and it winning, I think it invites more politically weighted songs in from anyone else.
 
O

oti

Banned
Nobody remembers Armenia's song about the Armenian Genocide or what?

First and pretty much only rule of Eurovision: Don't take Eurovision too seriously.

You can't lose Eurovision unless you take it too seriously.
 
A

Aiii

So not worth it
Dice said:
Whatever one thinks about the quality of the song, it was blatantly political. With their no-politics rules deeming this vague enough to pass, and it winning, I think it invites more politically weighted songs in from anyone else.
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So what if it was?

You think the "woman with a beard" won because her song was the best song? Or Lordi because of it's insane technical musicality? It seems like we have this discussion every year.

Next year's OT title should be "It's a popularity contest, not a best song contest" just for clarity.
 
J

Jasup

Member
Pifje said:
Belgium, Bulgaria, and Australia were my clear favourites, so seeing the utterly shit Ukraine song win after the win of jury votes was just ridiculous.

Ukraine winning was 100 % political, and while I do, of course, understand why people are supporting them, a song this shitty should not place in the top 10, let alone win the whole contest when there were some actually good songs and performances in the competition. I do hope Eurovision changes their policies regarding politics.
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Well how would you do that?
Tell people and juries to not vote politically? Scrap the televote and juries and put an apolitical central jury in their place?

Plus have you not considered that Ukraine really had a song that resonated with a lot of people even though you didn't like it? It's hard for me to imagine tens of millions of Europeans thinking :"I should give my vote to Ukraine because they're in a bit of a rut".
 
O

oti

Banned
Jasup said:
Well how would you do that?
Tell people and juries to not vote politically? Scrap the televote and juries and put an apolitical central jury in their place?

Plus have you not considered that Ukraine really had a song that resonated with a lot of people even though you didn't like it? It's hard for me to imagine tens of millions of Europeans thinking :"I should give my vote to Ukraine because they're in a bit of a rut".
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Only Switzerland should be allowed to vote.
Germany not being last HERE WE COME
 
O

oti

Banned
SecretMoblin said:
AGREED 100% re: Germany. There's so much talent in that country and it's a damn shame that their Eurovision team is such a disaster. ARD has the resources to make Germany a regular top 10 finisher if it wanted. The circumstances this year were odd, but they had plenty of time to figure shit out and they didn't. You probably would have fared better this year by going full schlager with Ella Endlich.
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I don't mind us being dead last. But holy shit why are people like the German commentator so surprised? What do they think Eurovision is? Don't play the "well I guess the other countries didn't like that one" card and do the same mistakes again next year. Germany is in danger of becoming another UK and nobody wants another UK.
 
Dice

Dice

Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
Aiii said:
So what if it was?

You think the "woman with a beard" won because her song was the best song? Or Lordi because of it's insane technical musicality? It seems like we have this discussion every year.

Next year's OT title should be "It's a popularity contest, not a best song contest" just for clarity.
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It's one thing to disagree about the quality of entertainment that a song/performance provides, it's another thing to have rules against songs being political and the songwriter explicitly saying her song was about two different political events that heavily affected her people and she hopes the song inspires empathy for people like her going through such things a.k.a. current geopolitics.

Jasup said:
Plus have you not considered that Ukraine really had a song that resonated with a lot of people even though you didn't like it? It's hard for me to imagine tens of millions of Europeans thinking :"I should give my vote to Ukraine because they're in a bit of a rut".
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I do think that's very well possible. Any European nation has strong grievances of the past... which are all political in nature. I just don't think those kinds of memories and sentiments are good to be stirring up in an international thing like this. With songs inherently being about messaging, it sets things up to be more tainted than the Olympics get sometimes.
 
R

Red Arremer

Member
Jasup said:
Well how would you do that?
Tell people and juries to not vote politically? Scrap the televote and juries and put an apolitical central jury in their place?

Plus have you not considered that Ukraine really had a song that resonated with a lot of people even though you didn't like it? It's hard for me to imagine tens of millions of Europeans thinking :"I should give my vote to Ukraine because they're in a bit of a rut".
Click to expand...

To add to that, the mentality and more importantly, the popular taste, is vastly different in other regions. That's why Eastern European entries often do so well, they resonate a lot more with other Eastern Europeans than they do with Western Europeans, plus most of the countries there take the contest very seriously and tour their song through all of Eastern Europe.

Besides that, Eurovision is not only about winning, either. Australia DID get second. That is massive, especially since it's their second time performing. Several of GAF's favourites (Belgium, Austria, Bulgaria) made it into the top half of the voting, too.

Also, as a closer: I absolutely loved Ukraine's song. It was not shit. It was different, and it was heartfelt, and it held a message that hit really close to home for me. I might not be a Crimean Tatar, but I do have a heritage that can closely relate to what Jamala's family went through.
 
J

Jasup

Member
oti xero said:
I don't mind us being dead last. But holy shit why are people like the German commentator so surprised? What do they think Eurovision is? Don't play the "well I guess the other countries didn't like that one" card and do the same mistakes again next year. Germany is in danger to become another UK and nobody wants another UK.
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Finnish commentators don't even bother with the excuse game anymore.
They used to do it though, a lot. One of my favourite excuses was from 1982, when the commentators just stated that Kojo's 0 was due to it being "too ahead of its time for Europeans"

Yeah.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUoKFwc3U8c&t=1m23s
 
D

daxy

Member
EuropeOG said:
How was Graham last night? I didn't watch.
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First time I watched the BBC broadcast instead of the local one so I have no point of reference, but his sarcasm was on point. Our local (Dutch) commentary usually takes this thing a bit too seriously.
 
J

Jasup

Member
Dice said:
I do think that's very well possible. Any European nation has strong grievances of the past... which are all political in nature. I just don't think those kinds of memories and sentiments are good to be stirring up in an international thing like this. With songs inherently being about messaging, it sets things up to be more tainted than the Olympics get sometimes.
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But it doesn't explain why Ukraine didn't win in 2014. Remember, that was just after Russia had annexed Crimea and sympathy towards Ukraine's blight was at its peak around Europe. Yet, Ukraine ended up in 6th place - with a song I can still remember (the one with the hamster wheel on stage).
 
Dice

Dice

Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
Jasup said:
But it doesn't explain why Ukraine didn't win in 2014. Remember, that was just after Russia had annexed Crimea and sympathy towards Ukraine's blight was at its peak around Europe. Yet, Ukraine ended up in 6th place - with a song I can still remember (the one with the hamster wheel on stage).
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I didn't say political favoritism is why Ukraine won, just that them winning with a political song could be a bad influence.
 
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