SolarKnight
Member
It's not unplayably broken, but I'm preeeeetty sure it still has its fair share of issues even if you're not getting them.
Fighting Games Weekly | Apr 27 - May 3 | NeoGAF actually plays games?!
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
It's not unplayably broken, but I'm preeeeetty sure it still has its fair share of issues even if you're not getting them.
Smooth Operator
Member
Yep, still some framerate issues for me.
People smartened up when they saw who was doing the port. Consumers learn over time.
Lmao.
I definitely have some Timmy in me then. I'll be playing a match seriously and then suddenly decide: "I wanna use Super/a special move/a certain normal 3 times in a row." Then I'll change my entire gameplan to find a way to do that feasibly. Sometimes I lost but sometimes it throws people off a lot.
The rest of the time I guess I'm a mix b/w Spike and Johnny.
That's a great response, though.
Anyone else try to irresponsibly end a match with an Ultra / Super / whatever, even if it was unnecessary? Has made me lose so many times.
See my above post lol.
I'm not saying that if I have 4 meters and the match is about to end and I have the life lead I'm going to always try to use them up somehow...but sometimes....
DryEyeRelief
Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";162081373]So why does proximity blocking exist again? It just seems like such a bad mechanic.[/QUOTE]
https://twitter.com/ultradavid/status/401427498476384256
https://twitter.com/ultradavid/status/401427498476384256
sixteen-bit
Member
If the press release is to be believed, less than 4.
SixMachine
Member
http://sonichurricane.com/?p=5023
Old but relevant about proximity blocking. They kept it since SF2. It's a way to manipulate your opponent so they don't freely walk back, and is something to take note in whiff punishing, so you have to make sure you don't catch yourself blocking something you can punish on whiff.
Ultrachen also went over this before on one of their First Attacks before. It is very useful for grapplers since in that effective blocking range you can effect their retreat. And of course we all know how someone like Snake Eyez fakes a whiffed normal then grabs them while they attempt to block.
Old but relevant about proximity blocking. They kept it since SF2. It's a way to manipulate your opponent so they don't freely walk back, and is something to take note in whiff punishing, so you have to make sure you don't catch yourself blocking something you can punish on whiff.
Ultrachen also went over this before on one of their First Attacks before. It is very useful for grapplers since in that effective blocking range you can effect their retreat. And of course we all know how someone like Snake Eyez fakes a whiffed normal then grabs them while they attempt to block.
"God's Beard!"
Member
^that makes a little more sense I guess, but it's still all seeming confusing and mostly unintentional.
I don't get how this makes Proximity Blocking a good thing, though. All David is saying is that you can't walk back once they hit a button. I get that. That's my problem.
I don't get how this makes Proximity Blocking a good thing, though. All David is saying is that you can't walk back once they hit a button. I get that. That's my problem.
SixMachine
Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";162093682]I don't get how this makes Proximity Blocking a good thing, though. All David is saying is that you can't walk back once they hit a button. I get that. That's my problem.[/QUOTE]
He is talking about the fact that frame advantage is relative. If the attacker lands his attack in the later frames, he would be relatively more safe. Since proximity blocking keeps the defender closer when backing up, they would get hit in the earlier active frames.
He is talking about the fact that frame advantage is relative. If the attacker lands his attack in the later frames, he would be relatively more safe. Since proximity blocking keeps the defender closer when backing up, they would get hit in the earlier active frames.
Wouldn't that make it better, just not arcade perfect?
"God's Beard!"
Member
Yes, I fully understand that. What I don't get is how that benefits gameplay.
DryEyeRelief
Member
Thanks
ShinMaruku
Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";162024010]I'm using Juicebox's secret footsies training tech in tandem with watching my replays against DBJ to become the ultimate Juri counterpick monster.
I'm coming for you, DBJ! 'Bout to get some wins off that Poison for real.
As soon as I learn how to beat this goddamn HP Fireball and cMK. Goddamn.[/QUOTE]
Juri?
When you get the execution down she'll be a joy.
I'm coming for you, DBJ! 'Bout to get some wins off that Poison for real.
As soon as I learn how to beat this goddamn HP Fireball and cMK. Goddamn.[/QUOTE]
Juri?
When you get the execution down she'll be a joy.
The thing is, reportedly the arcade is also -4 in that same test.
"God's Beard!"
Member
I get what proximity blocking is and how it can be used. My problem is not getting why it exists in the first place. Like, someone had to program into the game that you couldn't move backwards if your opponent is hitting a button. Why? The only thing I can think of is creating some sort of visual cue for the early SFs that had fewer frames of animation that your opponent is doing something.
I started to learn her because I accidentally picked her in a ranked match and somehow won. It was great.
I started to learn her because I accidentally picked her in a ranked match and somehow won. It was great.
I dont like proximity blocking either. In ST, and kof13 it's a pain in the ass to deal with when your opponent can walk forward spam some lights and your stuck blocking. In ST its so abuseable because its almost impossible to punish due to instant recovery and they have really good priority.
SixMachine
Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";162094252]Yes, I fully understand that. What I don't get is how that benefits gameplay.[/QUOTE]
The way it benefits gameplay is specific to what you are going for. The example where I mention some on like Zangief where you manipulate their retreat and when they block is important to him. You guys have seen a lot if people try to back up from green hands, go within block, then the hand whiffs and they get thrown. Correct me if I'm wrong but does Ken's step kick feint put them in a block stance? The whiffs do play on your opponents defensive tendencies since it gives the attacker something they can indirectly effect them with.
Range and frame advantage are huge in things like tick throws, you can't throw them in blockstun so the pkayer has to figure the proper range to walk up after a block normal. Specific to SF4, since throws are 2 frames iirc, if you are +1 or less you can attempt a throw on your opponent.
Edit: sorry if I'm seeming to respond even after you made another post because I'm on a phone and shit is tedious to browse neogaf.
Speculation on my part but in tgat SF2 retrospective that polygon made. They interviewed the team behind SF2. They didn't think of combos at the time and the design was around using your moves for their speed, range, and damage. Which makes it sound it was intended originally to be very footsie based. Since they obviously made balancing revisions I think they kept proximity blocking for that reason. If you throw out a jab at a retreating opponent, it may give you a moment to get youself into an effective range for cr.mk or something.
The way it benefits gameplay is specific to what you are going for. The example where I mention some on like Zangief where you manipulate their retreat and when they block is important to him. You guys have seen a lot if people try to back up from green hands, go within block, then the hand whiffs and they get thrown. Correct me if I'm wrong but does Ken's step kick feint put them in a block stance? The whiffs do play on your opponents defensive tendencies since it gives the attacker something they can indirectly effect them with.
Range and frame advantage are huge in things like tick throws, you can't throw them in blockstun so the pkayer has to figure the proper range to walk up after a block normal. Specific to SF4, since throws are 2 frames iirc, if you are +1 or less you can attempt a throw on your opponent.
Edit: sorry if I'm seeming to respond even after you made another post because I'm on a phone and shit is tedious to browse neogaf.
Speculation on my part but in tgat SF2 retrospective that polygon made. They interviewed the team behind SF2. They didn't think of combos at the time and the design was around using your moves for their speed, range, and damage. Which makes it sound it was intended originally to be very footsie based. Since they obviously made balancing revisions I think they kept proximity blocking for that reason. If you throw out a jab at a retreating opponent, it may give you a moment to get youself into an effective range for cr.mk or something.
Right.
ShinMaruku
Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";162094879]
I started to learn her because I accidentally picked her in a ranked match and somehow won. It was great.[/QUOTE]
I got to like Ibuki because of making a accident in a ranked match as well as trolling El Fuckos who get ex neckbreaked XD
Sometimes accidental picks can bring you a new character to play.
I started to learn her because I accidentally picked her in a ranked match and somehow won. It was great.[/QUOTE]
I got to like Ibuki because of making a accident in a ranked match as well as trolling El Fuckos who get ex neckbreaked XD
Sometimes accidental picks can bring you a new character to play.
Right - sorry, lol. The issue is that the X360 is closer to the truth, but further away from the arcade version. I sort of wonder whether PS4 should just rock -4 so arcade / PS4 / PS3 is on the same page, and patch X360 and move it to -4.
Coffeeling
Member
Correct, except the Spike part.
Timmy is about experiencing something. A typical Timmy is in it indeed for the flashiness - I like when my Elf combo deck makes creatures ridiculous and seeing a threshed Cabal Ritual generate ridiculous amounts of mana warms the cackles of my heart. It's the Timmy in me.
Timmies are ALSO about just doing things with friends and having fun. It's not one single laser focused thing that defines a player psychographic. For example, compare an Innovator Spike who wants to win because his deck broke the format vs. a Nuts and Bolts type who wants to win by playing flawlessly. Same aim, different expression.
Or compare Innovator Spikes with Johnnies. Same expression - brewing strange things - different root cause.
Cedric Philips, maybe
The MTG community is a lot more sterile in general, though.[/QUOTE]
http://shoryuken.com/2011/12/12/gue...pective-on-the-fgc-and-esports-communities-2/
Remember this article contrasting the FGC and PC Esports like Starcraft and MOBAs? MTG is pretty much smack in the middle. Analog, vs. the other guy in the same room, but at the same time quieter and has the taboos related to hidden information and such.
I can agree with this.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";162081373]So why does proximity blocking exist again? It just seems like such a bad mechanic.[/QUOTE]
A more pertinent question to ask is why in tarnation the charge up part of focus attack has a proximity box. It's ridiculous.
Little Timmy is trapped in a well?! Let's go save him Fido!
Poongko is glorious, dude knows how to have a good time.
Other than that, why base ourselves on archetypes from MTG? I thought we already had some established way to determining what kind of a player you are like nutjob, lame, Justin Wong, the daywalker, cheap and Fanatiq.
Poongko is glorious, dude knows how to have a good time.
Other than that, why base ourselves on archetypes from MTG? I thought we already had some established way to determining what kind of a player you are like nutjob, lame, Justin Wong, the daywalker, cheap and Fanatiq.
/s
Timmy's not trapped down there. He likes it.
Cosmo Clock 21
Banned
http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/117704742248/does-spike-care-about-mastery-because-it-lets-him
bazinga
Also the MTG psychographics are useful because there's a very close correlation between those and the ones in fighting games, so it's interesting to apply the lessons learned from the former to the latter. For example there's a bit of an echo chamber effect among certain subsets of the FGC ("who the fuck would want to play a single player fighting game like SC Lost Swords?!" later: "wait why are there so many people playing Lost Swords") because they're in a bubble composed primarily of Spike players.
bazinga
Also the MTG psychographics are useful because there's a very close correlation between those and the ones in fighting games, so it's interesting to apply the lessons learned from the former to the latter. For example there's a bit of an echo chamber effect among certain subsets of the FGC ("who the fuck would want to play a single player fighting game like SC Lost Swords?!" later: "wait why are there so many people playing Lost Swords") because they're in a bubble composed primarily of Spike players.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
sixteen-bit
Member
That probably contributed to it, but overall people complained about connections more b/c more wireless users I think?
Juicebox_FGC
Member
Proximity guard is a way to control movement.
If you don't want to be "locked in place", then avoid back and downback. Walk forward, or neutral/backwards jump, etc.
It's one effective way of preventing movement from getting stale. It lets the aggressor have a say in what the defender is doing.
-----
I am a Timmy/Johnny.
I play competitively, but within that umbrella I play for fun and expression. I like when people understand the game and we can have good matches together.
If you don't want to be "locked in place", then avoid back and downback. Walk forward, or neutral/backwards jump, etc.
It's one effective way of preventing movement from getting stale. It lets the aggressor have a say in what the defender is doing.
-----
I am a Timmy/Johnny.
I play competitively, but within that umbrella I play for fun and expression. I like when people understand the game and we can have good matches together.
Lostconfused
Member
It's in the very thing you linked in big bold letters "For Timmy, the entire reason to play is having a good time"
It defines a Timmy, where the act of engaging with the activity has to be fun/entertaining/rewarding. From what I can tell any way. Spike and Johnny both have a goal to work towards and that's where their satisfaction comes from.
Coffeeling
Member
Yup. And the good time can come from casting this , from hanging out with friends, or something else. The psychographics aren't that narrow.
I'm a power gamer+social gamer Timmy / nuts&bolts + tuner Spike for example.
Well I am glad the game is working perfectly for you but I and several other people are still having problems with the game such as memory leak crashes, SEVERAL graphical bugs, Frame rate issues, random online crashes (especially in KOTH), Random Freezes, Game UI not being updated, configure settings not memorizing, and several other issues. So yes, you can say the game is "better" than how it was on Day 1 but it still has persistent issue's that that I see I am not the only one having.
Lostconfused
Member
I think we just went through the same pointless argument again.
Coffeeling
Member
Ultra sales would plummet from the 3S hype.
Because like 30 people play them still.
Probably rights to stream some of the music in the game. I know Nintendo has had this issue with Sm4sh and its soundtrack. If that's not the issue, I guess popularity? The games are old and maybe they want to concentrate on what's coming.
Yeah. I can't imagine any big attendance for those two games. Plus, it might force them to lower the pot for the main games.
After SF4, I have a new appreciation for 3s. Was this Ono's agenda all along??
"God's Beard!"
Member
That makes sense. Creating an incentive to attack is good.
irfaanator
Banned
they had st and 3s for the 25th anniversary tourney. Maybe they just dont want to deal with multiple games at the same time.