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[toddhunter]

Enzo has a point. Even if the game tells you what the other character does, it's SO MUCH to adapt for every damn match. There will be like 831923726 matchups, because Guile can, or can't, have an anti-air, and he may or may not have this or that....

While that is true and what Enzo said is true as well, that is actually why I find it interesting.

A competitive fighting game is about learning your character, learning match-ups and learning to predict/understand the other player (all to different extents depending on the game).

Potentially, this approach makes it so you have to learn the match-up during the match. If they hit you with a SRK you now know they have one and can avoid it. So do they bring it out early and show it off or do they save it for a clutch surprise moment?

There are lots of variables of course. Do they show you the moves before the match? Does the character model change to reflect this? (red glowing gloves means fireball for instance, green shoes a flashkick). Are there enough moves to keep it from becoming predictable, does everything have a counter? Is the game awesome, but the way they charge for moves makes Capcom look smart?

It could be a clusterfuck, but it could also be something new and fun. From there people will find a way to make it competitive. The alternative is it'll just be another fighting game and I'm pretty sure that'll be dead in a day anyway so they might as well give it a shot.

 

[Dahbomb]

I can see this working in a 3D game but how is it going to work in a 2D game?

Like say you want to use Dhalsim's forward HP where he stretches his limb but on a different character... how would that work? Can you even use normals from other characters?

Or in something like UMVC3... what if I want to use Wolverine's Berserker Slash on Vergil... will he suddenly grow claws? Or what if I want to use Vergil's Helm Breaker on Wolverine... will he get a sword now?

 

[SixMachine]

I can see this working in a 3D game but how is it going to work in a 2D game?

Like say you want to use Dhalsim's forward HP where he stretches his limb but on a different character... how would that work? Can you even use normals from other characters?

Or in something like UMVC3... what if I want to use Wolverine's Berserker Slash on Vergil... will he suddenly grow claws? Or what if I want to use Vergil's Helm Breaker on Wolverine... will he get a sword now?

I'm imagining those really ghetto Mugen characters that basically change character sprites for each attack. "My character is so awesome I'm gonna take the best moves everything from everyone!"

 

[BakedYams]

Smedwicks, we need Dahbomb as our lead Game Designer! Like it'll ever happen though.

 

[toddhunter]

I can see this working in a 3D game but how is it going to work in a 2D game?

Well you would do your 2D game in 3D and lock the perspective.

Otherwise you could do a KOF type approach and make every character basically the same.

 

[enzo_gt]

Unrelated, but I finally got my hands on the X1 controller this weekend. Triggers are phenomenal, though I think I prefer the snappiness of the DS4s (didn't get to check out the rumble motors though). Not so sure about the flatter surface of the controller, but it still fit snug in my hands.

Damn near every MS product I tried had some related issue to it, it was pretty funny. First we went to the Surface booth.. And the touch keyboards weren't working. I went to play Titanfall.. Best Buy's wifi wouldn't let me. Madden was frozen in installation. Forza wouldn't boot (I forget the reason), and KI needed an update before it would start (which we couldn't download because of the shitty wifi). For those that own KI, is it true that you can't boot the game unless you update to the latest version?

Terrible first impression if someone would have a casual interest in the thing, I'd imagine, I only felt even worse for the MS guy that they hired to literally stand there and sell the thing. I didn't even know that was a thing, I've never seen company representatives in electronics retailers before. Then we went to GameStop and their X1 was turned off. Why would they even have it off? They had their PS4 set up on too, even if it was a bit fucked up (controller wasn't working; also the X1 controller would flick on and off at the Best Buy too).

 

[Dahbomb]

Well you would do your 2D game in 3D and lock the perspective.

Otherwise you could do a KOF type approach and make every character basically the same.

This is what I am afraid of. Not only that I am afraid that most moves that you can customize would be very generic type moves.


I already assumed it was in 3D hence why I used games with 3D examples (SF4 and UMVC3). If it was 2D then it would basically be Mugen.

 

[SloaneRisette]

Smedwicks, we need Dahbomb as our lead Game Designer! Like it'll ever happen though.

Dahbomb would be the best combat designer

Or the most indecisive

 

[Solune]

I don't believe there is actual precedence for this in a fighting game is there?

Only two games that actually do this to my knowledge are Godhand and Remember Me.

I wasn't like some super pro Godhand player... just enough to beat all the challenges and Hard mode (highest in that game). I basically had a bunch of tools for most situations... a guard breaker move, some very fast jabs, a move that evade enemies while attacking (pretty much broken IMO), some crowd control type move and the YES MAN KABLAM (broken move). I basically just jabbed enemies until they blocked then then guard break into YMK for the extra bar. If things got too rough I would just use the move that evade enemies while attack (basically chain that move in between side dodges, most enemies couldn't do anything against it). After a few YMKs I had full bar and just mashed jabs to kill them.


This will probably be how the game would be. People will figure out some broken ass moves and put them on their characters. It's pretty much like the Skullgirls assist system of old.. it didn't matter that there were so many combinations of assists you could happen... it just boiled down to the most broken ones that everyone used like Double's Butt Slam.

Though not to the same degree or straight out picking your own moveset it's existed somewhat.

Chaos Code actually has you choose moves after selecting your character as well.
Samsho III/IV - Slash/Bust
MBAACC's Moon system

I think it's plausible with proper implementation. The best way I see it could "work" is having the base move/normal set for a character and having the customizable moves can be mappable command normals and special moves that can be mapped up to a certain limit.

 

[biosnake20]

Yipes and FChamp break down the best shells in Marvel 3

 

[WesternHeretic]

I forgot Yipes was at FGTV. Was there any good sets?

 

[BakedYams]

Dahbomb would be the best combat designer

Or the most indecisive

I honestly agree wholeheartedly.

Yipes and FChamp break down the best shells in Marvel 3

I actually like this way of tiering. It heavily relies upon synergy and resourcefulness of the duo together. Kinda salty my duo of wolvie akuma is booty at the bottom but Justin Wong does a fine job proving otherwise.

Spoiler

In before "Justin Wong just has splendid fundamentals."

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

Yipes and FChamp break down the best shells in Marvel 3

ummmm.....


Hulk/Haggar?

 

[QisTopTier]

Smedwicks, we need Dahbomb as our lead Game Designer! Like it'll ever happen though.

lol

 

[Dahbomb]

DAMN I missed FGTV tier list discussion!!!

Zero + Dante not in top 3 is a travesty. It's certainly MUCH better than Vergil + Strider.


Nova + Spencer is not an actual shell either. A shell by definition is a duo that works independent of the 3rd character. Without a horizontal assist with Nova + Spencer... that shell is terrible. It would've been more appropriate to list Spencer + Strange because that duo sets up any character with a crumple (Nova, Chun Li, Iron Fist, She Hulk etc) for big damage and Spencer plus Strange can fight by themselves as a solid duo.

Vergil + Dante is a mediocre shell as well. Vergil does not benefit from Dante all that much and Dante does not benefit all that much from Vergil either. I would honestly put Magneto + Dante higher than that.


No Viper + either Dante or Strider listed.

 

["God's Beard!"]

The final boss in Guilty Gear X2 is really hard.

 

[mbpm1]

If it was 2D then it would basically be Mugen.

Well Mugen is basically already esports with its CPU tourneys, bring it on!

Spoiler

Maybe not

 

[biosnake20]

Dante/Strider should be higher.

 

[QisTopTier]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";110030884]The final boss in Guilty Gear X2 is really hard.[/QUOTE]

Wut? Only for Pot

 

[mbpm1]

 

[Dahbomb]

I actually like this way of tiering. It heavily relies upon synergy and resourcefulness of the duo together. Kinda salty my duo of wolvie akuma is booty at the bottom but Justin Wong does a fine job proving otherwise.

Spoiler

In before "Justin Wong just has splendid fundamentals."

This isn't top from bottom "best to worst" shells... it's essentially ranking of their top 10 best shells in the game plus 3 more honorable mentions. They list Wolverine + Akuma as a top 10 shell which means it's damn strong in the game.


Also I would add Frank + Dante into the mix along with Firebrand + Skrull.

 

[BakedYams]

.....

This isn't top from bottom "best to worst" shells... it's essentially ranking of their top 10 best shells in the game plus 3 more honorable mentions. They list Wolverine + Akuma as a top 10 shell which means it's damn strong in the game.


Also I would add Frank + Dante into the mix along with Firebrand + Skrull.

Ohhhhhhhh. That makes a lot more sense now. I face mirror matches sometimes since everyone has a pocket wolverine but when that akuma assist comes in, I know what people have to go through with me, and its not fun.

 

[Kimosabae]

FGTV was also listing their "Most Washed Up" players.


Infrit is the Roy Hibbert of the Marvel community.

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

Frank + Nova/Skrull should be there too. easiest Frannk level ups in the game.

 

[QisTopTier]

FGTV was also listing their "Most Washed Up" players.


Infrit is the Roy Hibbert of the Marvel community.

What's champ?

 

[Slamtastic]

Kitana voice actress lists herself as "supporting role" in "Mortal Kombat 2".

 

[Dahbomb]

I started watching the archived footage and they started the list by making just a top 10 best teams in the game but they soon stopped making that list because they were like "wait... this is just the teams of the top players".

Their top 5 best teams in the game:

Morrigan/Doom/Vergil (best team in the game)
Zero/Dante/Vergil
Magneto/Doom/Vergil
Wolverine/Doom/Vergil
Morrigan/Doom/Strider


Basically the exact ranking that Viscant had.

 

[DryEyeRelief]

i'm sorry 16 bit

 

[Busaiku]

This is why I didn't like everyone calling it Mortal Kombat 9.

 

[BakedYams]

I started watching the archived footage and they started the list by making just a top 10 best teams in the game but they soon stopped making that list because they were like "wait... this is just the teams of the top players".

Their top 4 best teams in the game:

Morrigan/Doom/Vergil (best team in the game)
Zero/Dante/Vergil
Magneto/Doom/Vergil
Wolverine/Doom/Vergil


Basically the exact ranking that Viscant had.

If a Marvel patch ever comes out, they need Viscant at the helm. The guy knows the game inside out, even though he's not the best at it. Combofiend is good but I believe both of them together would make the game favorable to everyone.

Spoiler

And we can stop calling it anime Kappa

 

[Parallax Scroll]

mortal kombat 2 already came out

 

["God's Beard!"]

Wut? Only for Pot

I'm so bad :-(

Stupid mirror I-No and her chip damage.

 

[Kimosabae]

What's champ?

Some saibamen/Donald Sterling hybrid. I dunno.

 

[TheChits]

i'm sorry 16 bit

lmao There is no way they don't have the princess of edenia

 

[Infinite]

Some saibamen/Donald Sterling hybrid. I dunno.

omg

 

[The Flash]

This seems like the best place to ask so here it goes.

I'm very new to fighting games but ever since I got into Killer Instinct I've been obsessed with them. So my question now is where do I start in terms of watching and potentially supporting particular players? I watch a lot of Max's stuff on YT and Twitch but other than him I don't know who else is popular in the FG community. I'd like to start watching all the big tournaments and events like EVO but I don't know whose side I should be on in a particular match if that makes sense.

 

[Azure J]

Is this old? As if I didn't have enough reasons to get disgusted at Vergil teams in Marvel.

I feel like I've been hit with every variant of this thing bar the Blistering Swords mixup (because who the hell uses Blistering Swords anyway lol ) before.

 

[Dahbomb]

This seems like the best place to ask so here it goes.

I'm very new to fighting games but ever since I got into Killer Instinct I've been obsessed with them. So my question now is where do I start in terms of watching and potentially supporting particular players? I watch a lot of Max's stuff on YT and Twitch but other than him I don't know who else is popular in the FG community. I'd like to start watching all the big tournaments and events like EVO but I don't know whose side I should be on in a particular match if that makes sense.

First of all welcome!

You should read the OP in this thread. There are some useful links in there.

You should also start visiting sites like Shoryuken and Eventhubs for your daily fighting game news.

As far as the players you want to look out for... if you are into Killer Instinct then you should be looking out for players like EG Justin Wong, EG PRBalrog, MrGrimmz and Rice Suave. You can start by looking at archive footage from the more recent Norcal Regionals and Socal Regionals (just top 8 is fine). Some of these players are good in multiple games like Street Fighter 4 and Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3. These two are also the two most popular games right now (disregard people calling UMVC3 a dead game, it normally gets the 2nd highest entrants at tournaments). SF4 is getting a new update which is Ultra SF4 and thus it is all the rage right now but games like Guilty Gear Xrd are also over the horizon.

Tournaments like these happen on the weekends. There's one coming up.. Northwest Majors that should be a good one to watch. Many games featured there. There also weeklies that happen in the middle of the week like Next Level Battle Circuit, Wednesday Night Fights and The Runback. For Killer Instinct, Runback is the place to watch as that's also where Maximillian usually commentates and even competes.


For EVO you should probably familiarize yourself with the main games this year. Those games are:

Ultra Street Fighter 4
Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3
Super Smash Bros. Melee
Killer Instinct
Injustice: Gods Among Us
Tekken Tag Tournament 2
King of Fighters XIII
BlazBlue

Other games you can check out: Street Fighter X Tekken, Mortal Kombat 9, Guilty Gear XX, Soul Calibur series, Virtua Fighter 5, Dead or Alive 5, Skullgirls.

 

[Infinite]

This seems like the best place to ask so here it goes.

I'm very new to fighting games but ever since I got into Killer Instinct I've been obsessed with them. So my question now is where do I start in terms of watching and potentially supporting particular players? I watch a lot of Max's stuff on YT and Twitch but other than him I don't know who else is popular in the FG community. I'd like to start watching all the big tournaments and events like EVO but I don't know whose side I should be on in a particular match if that makes sense.

The OP of this thread has everything you need, bro.

 

[SloaneRisette]

Yipes and FChamp break down the best shells in Marvel 3

Where's Cap/Nova ;_;

 

[Dahbomb]

Where's Cap/Nova ;_;

Probably better to have Cap + Iron Man in there than Cap + Nova.

 

[QisTopTier]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";110033356]I'm so bad :-(

Stupid mirror I-No and her chip damage.[/QUOTE]

The warning signs show you how that move works you can always avoid it completely

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX15X9zFQa0

 

[SloaneRisette]

Probably better to have Cap + Iron Man in there than Cap + Nova.

As GAF's top Cap/Nova player I swear by Cap/Nova

 

[Clawww]

DAMN I missed FGTV tier list discussion!!!

Zero + Dante not in top 3 is a travesty. It's certainly MUCH better than Vergil + Strider.

yea that's the first thing I thought

 

[A Pretty Panda]

As GAF's top Cap/Nova player I swear by Cap/Nova

What's your full team? I'll fight you for that awful title

 

[Dahbomb]

Also it should be stated that Yipes/FChamp clearly said at the start that this is not really a theory list but more like "from what we have seen thus far". So the list is definitely taking into account some level of tournament performance.

 

[N4Us]

 

[SloaneRisette]

What's your full team? I'll fight you for that awful title

Cap/Nova/Doom

so I basically get by by being lucky

 

[Lemstar]

As GAF's top Cap/Nova player I swear by Cap/Nova

You and poopninjamvc3mk should play.

 

[Silky]

I don't believe there is actual precedence for this in a fighting game is there?

Only two games that actually do this to my knowledge are Godhand and Remember Me.

I wasn't like some super pro Godhand player... just enough to beat all the challenges and Hard mode (highest in that game). I basically had a bunch of tools for most situations... a guard breaker move, some very fast jabs, a move that evade enemies while attacking (pretty much broken IMO), some crowd control type move and the YES MAN KABLAM (broken move). I basically just jabbed enemies until they blocked then then guard break into YMK for the extra bar. If things got too rough I would just use the move that evade enemies while attack (basically chain that move in between side dodges, most enemies couldn't do anything against it). After a few YMKs I had full bar and just mashed jabs to kill them.


This will probably be how the game would be. People will figure out some broken ass moves and put them on their characters. It's pretty much like the Skullgirls assist system of old.. it didn't matter that there were so many combinations of assists you could happen... it just boiled down to the most broken ones that everyone used like Double's Butt Slam.

A more recent example would be Chaos Code giving the option of someone adding an additional special/super to their movelist.

Then again no one played Chaos Code because FK Digital is taking their sweet ass time with the online.