Fighting Games Weekly | Feb 17-23 | United, Divided, Anime

S

SloaneRisette

Member
BakedYams said:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! OH MAN I LOVE LIFE!



Chill, Justin Wong has Wong Factor. Life never patched it so he's been on a rampage. Bring the sand paper Smedwicks.
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Damn, going in.
 
K

Kumubou

Member
Hitokage said:
Actually, Sakura Tetris uses the system I described(game is derived from TGM2 with some input tweaks). If you watch closely, you'll notice that garbage is NOT random. It is entirely determined by the actions of the other player, and is simply a height-inverted version of the material that was there before the clearing piece. This means that each player has direct influence on the other person's stack, and makes it an actual VS environment. Of course, this also means that clearing 2, 3, and 4 lines sends 2, 3, and 4 lines respectively instead of 1, 2, and 4 like in guideline Tetris. There is NO special bonus for T-Spin clears, as t-spins are just one of many kind of spins you'll have to do in an ARS game.

A key subtlety of the item system in Sakura Tetris is that NONE of them add to your stack height, except possibly for that weak item that adds single blocks randomly. What they do is various sorts of reconfiguration on what already exists on your stack, so the higher you've built the more vulnerable you are. A perfect example is the lightning bolt, which clears a single vertical line at random. If you have like 2-3 lines of material on your screen, this is almost a non-issue, but if you have 15-17 lines of material, you're fucked. Even the most powerful item, Eriol's Stack Invert, only takes effect to the highest row a piece is present.

Speaking of which, each character determines the specific effect of each colored item, and because of this and the fact that both players are working off the same piece distribution there are matchups, and because there are matchups there is also a tier list. Eriol is S tier, Sakura (regular) is A tier, and Kero is bottom tier. I usually let the people I play pick Eriol. Anyway, I don't see what the problem is with rewarding fast play, as that's what Tetris is all about in the first place. The faster you play, the more quickly you can clear your screen and the more quickly you can set up garbage for the other side. In Sakura Tetris, you're given an item piece at a regular interval of pieces used, so you also get items more rapidly this way. At the same time, the greedier you become the more you expose yourself to attack, and since you also get stack clearing items a less experienced player can stick around a lot longer. All that said, the spawn delay in Sakura VS is pretty slow regardless, so you really can't get things as fast as you can in TGM VS.
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What have I done? D: Coming soon: AFPGW | It's a hard lock life

There's nothing wrong with rewarding faster play... it's just that in Tetris, the game is just about playing fast and building clean, and that's really it. The interplay is minimal, even in variants where you have some additional skills and can control your attacks. I think one of the alt outfits for Sakura had the field flip special and lightning bolt, which was just gross if you comboed them together and they had any sort of real stack. But even the field flip had a balancing point: if you used it after you sent a fair amount of garbage, you. just made it really easy for them to clear it, and chaining them is (mostly) useless. I always hated (or loved) how the block randomizer was glitched to the point where you could select the exact block and rotation you wanted. A couple of the skills were near-useless -- this was worse than useless.

I know when I played this a lot with a friend of mine he would always pick Tomoyo for two reasons: she had really good defensive specials (I was better than he was, but this would let him survive longer and maybe catch me doing something stupid) and he knew I hated her theme, so every time he won it was an auto-troll. Jerkbag. :<

You are right about the speed, though. I was conflating the game's special with TGM (which, even by default has a long lock and clear delay, although IIRC it goes down as you go through the levels). You can still get and use a special in about 5-6 seconds, though. :p
 
C

Cosmo Clock 21

Banned
Kumubou said:
At least in Puyo you have some decisions to make in regards to cutting a chain short, and players being attacked can keep building out during the chain and counter with something bigger. That leads to its own problems, though. I always thought Puyo would have been better if a counters led to a soft reset of the chain, so that a 10 chain clearing an 8 chain would lead to a 2 chain's amount of garbage being sent over, not the 9th and 10th parts of the chain's garbage... but what do I know, I'm a scrub at that game. :p
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I clearly have a pro-Puyo bias

but, that's why you harass the opponent with a small 2-3 chain so he's forced to cut his chain short or have his incomplete 10 chain buried. But means you need to pay attention to the opponent's board, watching for weaknesses in her build and the potential for you to get harassed as well, which is a lot more interactive than most other VS puzzle games out there. Also the garbage scaling actually goes from being exponentially increasing to linearly increasing after a while, which helps comebacks slightly. And there's color bonus and power chains which can affect overall garbage sent too.

In Tetris Friends and Tetris Attack you don't win the match, the other player loses.

somebody connect this back to fighting games i dont know how
 
V

VanillaCakeIsBurning

Member
Jazz-ism said:
melty blood is prob one of the most underrated titles of this gen

amazing music...lots of depth and systems....lots of char variety

and the most retarded developer/publisher :/

i play
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Hitokage said:
I do, although I can't decide if I enjoy being lame with Mech Hisui or getting hilarious corner pressure with human Hisui more.

No wait, fuck all that. I'll pick Nero and hit C all day.
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Since Under Night: In-Birth is made by the same developer, are you all planning on learning that too once it's available on PSN?

Apparently the console release has been jumping around a lot though so that's still up in the air. Jazz, I'm assuming that your developer/publisher comment was in reference to this?
 
K

Kumubou

Member
VanillaCakeIsBurning said:
Does anyone here play Melty Blood?
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Who the hell plays Melty Blood? :p I've played the games too much -- if you have questions, I either know the answer... or know who would know the answer. I still kind of wish the community crater and die the way it did, but that happened for a bunch of reasons so :|

Jazz-ism said:
melty blood is prob one of the most underrated titles of this gen

amazing music...lots of depth and systems....lots of char variety

and the most retarded developer/publisher :/

i play
Click to expand...
This... all of this. Except I don't think French Bread is stupid at all -- they're just a very small team (and typically Japanese). It was hilarious, when Evo went to get permission to run/stream MBAA, French Bread was blown away at the fact that anyone outside of Japan wanted to play their game -- never mind that it had enough players in America to warrant running the game at America's biggest tournament. Now their thirst for a Evo runback is very real. Too bad their next developer stream got pushed back to late March now. :\

Ecole, on the other hand, can get bent. It turns out that the Japanese players hold them in about as much regard as the international community does (none at all). Seeing their Sega CD and Saturn games... we've had so many developers die over the years, and they survive? How the hell? They're like a bizarro Idea Factory.
 
R

Rhapsody

Banned
VanillaCakeIsBurning said:
Since Under Night: In-Birth is made by the same developer, are you all planning on learning that too once it's available on PSN?

Apparently the console release has been jumping around a lot though so that's still up in the air. Jazz, I'm assuming that your developer/publisher comment was in reference to this?
Click to expand...

Definitely. Doesn't look as fun as Melty, but I like picking up new 2D fighters when I can.
 
B

biosnake20

Member
Smedwicks, just put your phone playing a gif of his awkward pop off against mine against the monitor when your playing him. That deep regret will get to him.
 
Q

QisTopTier

XisBannedTier
When learning Under Night: In-Birth the first step of learning your character is to learn where your attacks DON'T HIT

Kappa
 
R

Rhapsody

Banned
TBH, big normals in UNIEL might be interesting. Ever since fighters have gone to widescreen format, big normals might be nice.
 
Shouta

Shouta

Member
Smedwicks said:
Hey Shouta if I lose does this mean I'm getting cut from team NeoGAF? ;_;
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Yes?

But really, good luck with that. You can do itz. You have a better chance against Jwong in AE than you do in Chris G in Marvel and you did surprisingly good in Marvel, lol. But then again, you don't really play A. =x
 
S

SloaneRisette

Member
Shouta said:
Yes?

But really, good luck with that. You can do itz. You have a better chance against Jwong in AE than you do in Chris G in Marvel and you did surprisingly good in Marvel, lol. But then again, you don't really play A. =x
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I swear the TO's are evil! They have it out for the players! You can't cut me from the team, man! :p

But thanks! :D For all the people who are rooting for me, I hope to do my best! I play an average (at least I think average) character in AE and don't really play the game, but I'll probably be grinding it out a lot until SCR. I'm hoping that Marvel gets capped soon so I can find out who I play in that.
 
K

Kumubou

Member
It's almost certainly a good thing that UNIB 1.0 never got released outside of Japanese arcades, as that game was straight BBCT levels of asswater. I'll almost certainly give UNIEL a shot, but I'm kind of curious how the game's release shakes out (as it seems like there's a lot of ways it could go). It's nice to see what the hell they were trying to go for now, and it's some weird blend of Samurai Shodown and Melty Blood style neutral. The flow of how shielding, GRD and chain shift works is rather unique, too.

QisTopTier said:
When learning Under Night: In-Birth the first step of learning your character is to learn where your attacks DON'T HIT
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Play Akatsuki, then the answer is... everywhere. Actually his biggest problem is that he doesn't get any real hard knockdowns. They accounted for this with Eltnum as they gave her a dash divekick that knocks down and her EX DP also knocks down now, but not poor Akatsuki.
 
Shouta

Shouta

Member
Smedwicks said:
I swear the TO's are evil! They have it out for the players! You can't cut me from the team, man! :p

But thanks! :D For all the people who are rooting for me, I hope to do my best! I play an average (at least I think average) character in AE and don't really play the game, but I'll probably be grinding it out a lot until SCR. I'm hoping that Marvel gets capped soon so I can find out who I play in that.
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Jwong is playing Rufus, so you just need to know what to do with your character against him and not to fall for his shit, lol.
 
H

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
Kumubou said:
What have I done? D: Coming soon: AFPGW | It's a hard lock life

There's nothing wrong with rewarding faster play... it's just that in Tetris, the game is just about playing fast and building clean, and that's really it. The interplay is minimal, even in variants where you have some additional skills and can control your attacks.
Click to expand...
You know, I'm typing all this shit out, describing a system that has more interplay than Puyo Puyo, but it's not getting acknowledged. :(

Also, Tetris as a game fundamentally changes when gravity speed hits 20 rows per frame and lock delay does not reset on rotation. Try it sometime! You'd also be surprised how much it carries back into the regular game. In Sakura VS I'm holding down up half the time.

I think one of the alt outfits for Sakura had the field flip special and lightning bolt, which was just gross if you comboed them together and they had any sort of real stack. But even the field flip had a balancing point: if you used it after you sent a fair amount of garbage, you. just made it really easy for them to clear it, and chaining them is (mostly) useless. I always hated (or loved) how the block randomizer was glitched to the point where you could select the exact block and rotation you wanted. A couple of the skills were near-useless -- this was worse than useless.

I know when I played this a lot with a friend of mine he would always pick Tomoyo for two reasons: she had really good defensive specials (I was better than he was, but this would let him survive longer and maybe catch me doing something stupid) and he knew I hated her theme, so every time he won it was an auto-troll. Jerkbag. :<
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Stack Flip is not the same as Stack Invert, and while chained Stack Flips are indeed more silly than damaging, they take on a different character when performed mid-Tetris and if your opponent's stack has a tall feature it'll push everything up that much more. Mid-Tetris Stack Flips have KO potential.

Stack Invert is the item unique to Eriol. It's one of his only two offensive items, but it's so powerful he doesn't need much else and his other five are all effective defensive items. Up to the highest row you have stacked, it will produce a gap in any filled square and fill all open space. If you have a normal looking stack 3/4 high, you'll be left with a field that has the same height but is entirely hollowed out. His other offensive item, Decay, which punches random holes in your stack, makes this ability even more damaging. Pretty much your only hope after being hit with this is a half-stack clear item.

Some items are pretty innocuous in general but can be really devious when put to proper use. Stack Roulette, which has your stack loop horizontally in one direction for a set time, can be stopped prematurely by hitting circle, but that time is enough for your opponent to get in more garbage. You can almost chain grab people to death with it.

By the way, this webpage is a decent reference: http://hiro.suzuaki.net/no-weater.TETRISwithCCsakura.html

You are right about the speed, though. I was conflating the game's special with TGM (which, even by default has a long lock and clear delay, although IIRC it goes down as you go through the levels). You can still get and use a special in about 5-6 seconds, though. :p
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Yeah, TGM2 Master mode has a Line Clear duration of 40 frames and an ARE of 25 frames until level 500, which is really long.

Other info: http://tetrisconcept.net/wiki/Tetris_The_Absolute_The_Grand_Master_2_PLUS
 
S

SloaneRisette

Member
Shouta said:
Jwong is playing Rufus, so you just need to know what to do with your character against him and not to fall for his shit, lol.
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The trouble is knowing what to do with Cody, lol. The only things I really know how to do are j.HP and foward Roundhouse or whatever that one move is. Part of me wants to pick Sagat and just hope I'm lucky, but I know that'll be a bad idea, lol.

I'll probably end up studying his videos and writing down some notes, it's just a matter of know what to do with Cody in a game I'm not great at, and making sure I don't do dumb mistakes like I normally do.
 
X

xCobalt

Member
Smedwicks said:
The trouble is knowing what to do with Cody, lol. The only things I really know how to do are j.HP and foward Roundhouse or whatever that one move is. Part of me wants to pick Sagat and just hope I'm lucky, but I know that'll be a bad idea, lol.

I'll probably end up studying his videos and writing down some notes, it's just a matter of know what to do with Cody in a game I'm not great at, and making sure I don't do dumb mistakes like I normally do.
Click to expand...

Switch characters and study this video.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Smedwicks said:
The trouble is knowing what to do with Cody, lol. The only things I really know how to do are j.HP and foward Roundhouse or whatever that one move is. Part of me wants to pick Sagat and just hope I'm lucky, but I know that'll be a bad idea, lol.

I'll probably end up studying his videos and writing down some notes, it's just a matter of know what to do with Cody in a game I'm not great at, and making sure I don't do dumb mistakes like I normally do.
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Sagat's immobility is not a good look vs Rufus.

Momochi went to Ken for this matchup, fwiw, even before he switched back. If you know the spacings, you can SRK the divekicks all the time. Here you go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5daI8DLe_7U
 
Shouta

Shouta

Member
theprodigy said:
you make it sound so easy, why not play for Smedwicks then
chansub-global-emoticon-ddc6e3a8732cb50f-25x28.png
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I would but I can't pass for Smedwicks. I don't have the look of a Captain America player.
chansub-global-emoticon-ddc6e3a8732cb50f-25x28.png


I'd actually straight up would tho if I had the chance. Been getting to face good AE players the last 6-7 months and I've made pretty significant strides in play since then. It would be nice to test my mettle with Justin.
 
T

theprodigy

Member
Beats said:
What are the numbers for SCR right now? Is there a way to check?
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AE-capped at 256
Marvel-197 as of 2/17
Melee-too busy procrastinating
Blazblue-capped at 128
Killer Instinct-capped at 64
SFxT-capped at 64
dunno about the rest, although Injustice is over 70
 
Q

QisTopTier

XisBannedTier
I'll join Team NeoGAF if I get sponsored :p

and could actually travel

I'll even be your Partner for Gundam Shouta!

I haven't played a single minute of the game yet
 
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