.la1n
Member
They already confirmed no demo (at least not prior to launch.) I also wouldn't put it past them to still have a few surprise characters for game launch instead of revealing everything prior since they have done that in the past.
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Fighting Games Weekly | Feb 23 - Mar 1 | Radio Bryheem Presents: Kosmos
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
They already confirmed no demo (at least not prior to launch.) I also wouldn't put it past them to still have a few surprise characters for game launch instead of revealing everything prior since they have done that in the past.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Fightan games should definitely have more alternate win conditions.
sixteen-bit
Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";153767675]Fightan games should definitely have more alternate win conditions.[/QUOTE]
SF5 to get ring outs
kick opponent into bus = round
SF5 to get ring outs
kick opponent into bus = round
CommandThrower
Member
You can bet your bippy that at least 1-3 characters on that MKX roster will not be known at the time of launch. That's stuff that everybody will find out as they play.
Score
SloaneRisette
Member
I would like to see Daigo umedonkey kick someone into a bus to win Evo
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";153767675]Fightan games should definitely have more alternate win conditions.[/QUOTE]
Part of me wants a fighting game to implement something like the doubling cube from Backgammon. It would cut out a lot of crap (since it would cause a lot of games to end early once someone gets hit with the zoop zoop or an equivalent), and it would be a hilarious (and degenerate) mechanic for money matches.
Part of me wants a fighting game to implement something like the doubling cube from Backgammon. It would cut out a lot of crap (since it would cause a lot of games to end early once someone gets hit with the zoop zoop or an equivalent), and it would be a hilarious (and degenerate) mechanic for money matches.
theprodigy
Member
>make the time limit super long, thus making timeouts boring
>proceed to claim that it needs to be even longer to avoid timeouts, because timeouts are bad (because we made it that way)
only in the Smash community, everyone
To be fair, it's to remove excessive camping for Smash games. It can get really bad in that series when people just try to run away with the lead compared to other ones. The thing is that this works for Melee more just because of ledge stalling and other stuff (8 minutes is excessive for Melee though imo). However, I think it's a terrible solution that really doesn't work for Smash 4.
Smash 4's already a game that's played heavily defensive where there's a lot of risk going in and random elements when close to your opponent.
Smash 4's already a game that's played heavily defensive where there's a lot of risk going in and random elements when close to your opponent.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Any sort of secondary goal adds a lot of tension and strategic possibility.
KO
Time Out
Viable Alternate Condition
That would be pretty sweet.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";153770828]Any sort of secondary goal adds a lot of tension and strategic possibility.
KO
Time Out
Viable Alternate Condition
That would be pretty sweet.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but finding something viable....I don't know, ring outs and stage traps sucks IMO....can't think of other conditions
KO
Time Out
Viable Alternate Condition
That would be pretty sweet.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but finding something viable....I don't know, ring outs and stage traps sucks IMO....can't think of other conditions
theprodigy
Member
8 minutes is completely excessive for Melee, considering the average match time is ~3:30 to begin with
also the best part about raising the timer (for Smash 4) is when the same person claims that customs make the game faster (which may or may not be true, but that's not the point), because when the game becomes faster, we need to....raise the timer? because reasons
"God's Beard!"
Member
You joke, but a character with a "this move shortens my lifespan!" type effect is actually kind of interesting. The problem is that new players will just mash the coolest looking thing and not know why they died, so you'd have to come up with some really visible solution for that.
Kind of like Aegis in Persona 4 Arena. She has enough bullets that it generally doesn't matter, but new players will run out and not know why their buttons don't work anymore.
Yeah... it's just... weird... lol I don't get the reasoning I see from randoms sometime. I can't see customs straight up making a game faster. Especially when there are some that are slow moves to control space like Samus stuff.
The biggest problem on Smash is the legacy for its rules from the previous game. Everyone expects that the last ruleset should be what's best for the new game. I'll be honest, I'm actually surprised that Smash 4 was switched to 2 stocks so fast. If it wasn't for Apex, I still feel like a lot of tourneys would stick with six.
SolarKnight
Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";153772556]You joke, but a character with a "this move shortens my lifespan!" type effect is actually kind of interesting.[/QUOTE]
.
I feel like these games could use a time (maybe even stock) lowering across the board.
Melee four stocks feels good, but I think 3 stocks would be fine too. Four allows for situations that seems really hard to come back from, so sometimes that's interesting. And of course I guess it's always good to give more chances for better results. It's always a balancing act between time taken and more accurate results. But at least going to 7 minutes probably wouldn't change things significantly, aside from cutting time out of campy matches. Seems like most matches, even with two floaties, take around 6 minutes on the high end.
But Brawl and Sm4sh 3 stocks felt like too much. 64 5 stocks felt like too much.
sixteen-bit
Member
theprodigy
Member
yes, EXACTLY
so many "but Brawl was 3 stocks!" posts (I mean, let's just ignore that the only reason Brawl and Melee shared the same timer was cause copying the ruleset initially, they even tried 4 stocks before realizing this was dumb)
Melee should be 3 stock/5 min or 4 stock/6-7 min, the former would have the convenient side benefit of forever killing all Smash 4 3-stock suggestions
(also haha Smash 64 can get so campy, but I guess nobody cares because you rarely ever see it)
pad players have an advantage confirmed Kappa
SloaneRisette
Member
Text pops up on the screen saying "NO CHEESERS"
"God's Beard!"
Member
Alternate win conditions in a fighting game are super hard to design effectively. You could do unique abilities that are really cool like Naoto's Mudoon instant kill, but then there's balancing issues with how viable you want it vs winning a game with damage. And if you make characters with alts that are too strong, it upsets the pace of the game. You could make the game take longer on average to make alts that need setup more reasonable, but then the balance among the characters that win normally gets really hard to deal with. If you slow the game down to take 5 combos on average to kill instead of 3, the little differences in damage or mixups suddenly become a lot larger.
The other option is universal alternate win conditions like ring outs and stage hazards, but the problem there is finding a condition that doesn't seem random or frustrating to new players, or takes skill without becoming too complex.
As a thought experiment, I once tried to redesign a Kenshiro from Fist of the North Star based on alternate win conditions,and it was a real challenge trying to come up with solutions that are interesting to play with while not being frustrating to play against. There's a real risk of a player feeling cheated rather than outplayed by alternate win conditions. You really have to make sure what's going on is obvious and built up.
It's entirely possible that the best alternate conditions are the ones that still fit within the regular rules of the game, like the two Phoenixes in Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3.
I don't know who that is.
The other option is universal alternate win conditions like ring outs and stage hazards, but the problem there is finding a condition that doesn't seem random or frustrating to new players, or takes skill without becoming too complex.
As a thought experiment, I once tried to redesign a Kenshiro from Fist of the North Star based on alternate win conditions,and it was a real challenge trying to come up with solutions that are interesting to play with while not being frustrating to play against. There's a real risk of a player feeling cheated rather than outplayed by alternate win conditions. You really have to make sure what's going on is obvious and built up.
It's entirely possible that the best alternate conditions are the ones that still fit within the regular rules of the game, like the two Phoenixes in Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3.
I don't know who that is.
sixteen-bit
Member
DQ'd for habdoken spam
SolarKnight
Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";153775043]I don't know who that is.[/QUOTE]
Carmine from UNIEL
Almost if not all of his specials and command normals sacrifice life since they're all made from his blood which turns into projectlies and puddles that you can use for setups.
He can't kill himself (he keeps one pixel of health), but it's surprising how much of your lifebar you take away yourself without noticing.
Carmine from UNIEL
Almost if not all of his specials and command normals sacrifice life since they're all made from his blood which turns into projectlies and puddles that you can use for setups.
He can't kill himself (he keeps one pixel of health), but it's surprising how much of your lifebar you take away yourself without noticing.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";153772556]You joke, but a character with a "this move shortens my lifespan!" type effect is actually kind of interesting. The problem is that new players will just mash the coolest looking thing and not know why they died, so you'd have to come up with some really visible solution for that.
Kind of like Aegis in Persona 4 Arena. She has enough bullets that it generally doesn't matter, but new players will run out and not know why their buttons don't work anymore.[/QUOTE]
is your first
functions like bullets
Kind of like Aegis in Persona 4 Arena. She has enough bullets that it generally doesn't matter, but new players will run out and not know why their buttons don't work anymore.[/QUOTE]
Having been at the receiving end of this many times, its certainly deceptive.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";153718712]What's everyone's top 3 high and low moments in Fighting Game History? No shame.
My top moments:
- Becoming an Honorary Canadian at EVO 2011
- Exposing a TO scamming players in my local scene
- Winning a rap contest to play Marvel 3 early
My lowest moments:
- Being made to look like a baby who can't find his mom's tits with Kuroda's fifth best character
- Talking shit about my Twelve then playing C-Royd who proceeds to teach me how to play my character in the middle of the match
- Passing out drunk in an elevator next to Seth Killian
Honorable mentions:
- Almost losing in SFIV to a guy streaming on a Rock Band drum controller
- Getting shaved by Marn on stream
lol, one of my lows is losing a MM to CrazyJoe, still salty over that. Two of my highs is beating Marlin in a FT10 and being one match away from top 16... maybe that can count as a low. also, i actually faced flux, besides zero being stupid, he just had 2-3 matches ahead of me and the reason i say that is cause i have no experience with zero whatsoever so it was surprising to me that i was able to hold my own.
SolarKnight
Member
We only know they're <1000 because otherwise I'm sure it would've been mentioned along with Melee and SFIV :T
Yeah, for Melee I'm fine if it stayed at 4 or changed to 3. Then time could be lowered to six, and it'd all be good.
It's pretty good as it is, but I wouldn't be opposed to change for Melee.
Edit: Also my PS2-GC converter works for Smash 4. Using the turbo method to farm for customs. Still going to take awhile, but better than nothing.
In the Bleach games for the DS there was a girl (I know crap about Bleach) who could instakill you if she hit the same super twice. First one would leave a mark, second would kill. That was pretty cool.
Specineff is fucking awesome.
I semi-destroyed both my DS3 and DS4 controllers by playing too much Smash netplay.
On both controllers the L-triggers have been blown out like spring or something within exploded from all the shit and gets stuck halfway.
Along with that on my DS4, all the rubber has been utterly destroyed off the sticks, with both controllers now having super loose sticks.
This is what I get for trusting a non-battletank of a GC controller for Smash, never again.
I can only hope Nintendo will get off their ass and restock GC Adapters, cause the fanmade driver is sick.
On both controllers the L-triggers have been blown out like spring or something within exploded from all the shit and gets stuck halfway.
Along with that on my DS4, all the rubber has been utterly destroyed off the sticks, with both controllers now having super loose sticks.
This is what I get for trusting a non-battletank of a GC controller for Smash, never again.
I can only hope Nintendo will get off their ass and restock GC Adapters, cause the fanmade driver is sick.
Smash tangent: I got Project M working in Dolphin with Gamecube adapter inputs (native to one of the newer editions of Dolphin vs using the fan made driver) and Jesus it feels so good. As much as I want to get into Melee knowing it's where the scene is for tournaments now, I just generally love how modular PM is, the added character match ups and unique little mechanics in place in the game.
Soi Fon.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Coffeeling
Member
I want Melee on Saturday because I care about it, and a Sat slot means I can actually watch it. Late Sunday means I can't, because work. Early Sunday would be ace too. But those traditional SF4/Marvel slots I'm fine being consigned to SF4/Marvel.
As a Jedah player, he didn't appeal to me for some reason.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Well he lacks in the type of coolness jedah had. Blowing off his head and limbs and stuff just to fuck you up.
Coffeeling
Member
He lacks Grim Reaper, so there's that.
And stabby ribs. He doesn't do rib-stabs either. Or a pet buzzshark. Or a paper bag. Or a strawberry. Name means red but his name isn't written in red either. He lacks a 1f reflector and hasn't caused Brawl players to use the word "overcentralize" so much I want to vomit every time I read the word.
What is actually attractive about him?
And stabby ribs. He doesn't do rib-stabs either. Or a pet buzzshark. Or a paper bag. Or a strawberry. Name means red but his name isn't written in red either. He lacks a 1f reflector and hasn't caused Brawl players to use the word "overcentralize" so much I want to vomit every time I read the word.
What is actually attractive about him?
theprodigy
Member
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