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[chriskun]

is there no archive for the sxsw stream?

 

[StriKeVillain]

Oh hey cool, a player named "KOK" is playing on stream. Let me open up the chat...

Idontknowwhatiexpected.jpg

 

[Marceles]

this juri cosplayer



LAWWWWD

So many boos for Inco winning

 

[Immortal Technique]

Whoever tweeted that Inception pic of Zhi, you have my respect forever.

 

[CPS2]

This sounds just as bad as the Capcom Unity forums...

Isn't Capcom Unity just people begging for sequels, characters and features? I'm kinda doing the opposite, being ok with baby steps... If a developer historically had poor netcode, maybe they should region lock their online multiplayer so they can force a maximum distance. I think the people losing their shit over features that would definitely make the online worse are the ones who should be posting on the NRS equivalent of Capcom Unity.

Best case scenario, show the connection in miliseconds of ping and let you filter by the number, rather than splitting it up into regions. I kinda have pretty low expectations for netcode and features tho.

 

[Horseress]

FGW | I'm gentleman

 

[phaonaut]

Isn't Capcom Unity just people begging for sequels, characters and features? I'm kinda doing the opposite, being ok with baby steps... If a developer historically had poor netcode, maybe they should region lock their online multiplayer so they can force a maximum distance. I think the people losing their shit over features that would definitely make the online worse are the ones who should be posting on the NRS equivalent of Capcom Unity.

Best case scenario, show the connection in miliseconds of ping and let you filter by the number, rather than splitting it up into regions. I kinda have pretty low expectations for netcode and features tho.

An actual ping would be great. Skull girls does this right? I can't think of another.

 

[TheChits]

PEPEDAY

 

[Rainy]

PEPEDAY PLEASE

 

[jbug617]

this juri cosplayer



LAWWWWD

tell me how they don't pop out.

 

[mbpm1]

Played Yatagarasu for the first time today.

Very pure fighting game

very fun

 

[CurlyW]

I believe on the commentary they said that they had the same number of net games won. IIRC they were both at -2 games. They probably don't factor in rounds for the decision to go to tiebreaker.

But when they played against each other in regular play, somebody won (I believe JWong). Why couldn't that have just broken the tie? Head-to-head results are almost always the first criterion to break ties in round-robin.

Minor issue because it seems that JWong won in the end, but I still found it weird.

 

[hitsugi]

We gotta get Infiltration on the mic more

Played Yatagarasu for the first time today.

Very pure fighting game

very fun

Game is sadly DOA so far in Japan, but it is neat.

 

[Immortal Technique]

But when they played against each other in regular play, somebody won (I believe JWong). Why couldn't that have just broken the tie? Head-to-head results are almost always the first criterion to break ties in round-robin.

You're right that head-to-head is often used, but isn't it a dumb criterion in a round-robin? If you tie somebody's record, and had beat them head-to-head, that just means you did worse against everyone else. I don't see how it proves you deserve to advance more than the other guy.

 

[Passive Assassin]

yo ... damn anton.

infiltration bodied that food.

 

[BakedYams]

tell me how they don't pop out.

I see your smitten jbug.

 

[kasane]

Daaaaamn juri best

 

[Malice215]

I love seeing my tweets on stream. NST da bes.

 

[jerry1594]

Tried playing SA3 chun today. SA3 is fun but it mostly made me sad to see what an unfinished character she is. The 3s team really seems to have thrown in the towel at that point.

 

[PureYeti]

Played Yatagarasu for the first time today.

Very pure fighting game

very fun

Great join this if you can

http://steamcommunity.com/app/319280/discussions/0/617329505862037511/

I love seeing my tweets on stream. NST da bes.

*high five*

 

[kirblar]

lololol @ Zhi trying to get Infiltration to sign up for Grindr.

 

[Tripon]

People who donate to twitch streams are automatically friendzoned. </Zhi>

 

[Mr. X]

It's technically a 3D engine but they're obviously not using 3D models. It's guaranteed to be less resource intensive than a full 3D game, and the save states would be smaller as a result. I think the limitation now is bandwidth rather than memory, since Dragon Ball Zenkai Battle Royale was a full 3D game that used GGPO in Japanese arcades.

Via Mike Z

1 - Bandwidth is not ever an issue. You do not send savestates over the internet, you send only inputs. This is also true of non-savestate-based fighting game net code...since everything is based on player inputs, there is never a need to send anything else. This is why fighting games don't generally let you join in as a spectator mid-match: since they are only sending the current frame's inputs, the game is incapable of sending a new spectator the game state, and so you can't join in once the game has already started because that would involve sending you the current state.

2 - Skullgirls renders everything in 3D using polygons, shaders, etc. Whether the result is polygons that form a 3D shape or polygons that form a flat mesh is irrelevant, nothing nowadays is "2D" in the sense of "drawing directly to the framebuffer rather than drawing polygons". And our backgrounds are "3D" in the sense of having skeletons, etc, so the entire is entirely capable of displaying 3D models, as well as saving and rolling back their state.

3 - Whether your engine is "3D" or "2D" is irrelevant for savestates. You do not save the rendering state as part of the savestate, you save the game state. As a concrete example, you MUST save things like "Where is the character / what frame of what animation are they currently on / what is the combo count" and you do NOT need to save things like "what are all the joint transforms for the current pose for the character" since that can be (and is) derived from "what frame of what animation are they currently on". And since the only difference between a "3D rendered" game and a "2D rendered" game comes well after the point at which the simulation ends, savestates are roughly equivalent between all types of fighting games.

3 - Even if you DID save all that unnecessary junk related to render state, it's not large. After all, there are only two to six characters, and even a complete copy of the physics state of a world can be stored in a few MB. Restoring that savestate on a modern PC or current-gen console hundreds of times per second is not a problem.

5 - GGPO doesn't care what's in your savestate or how your engine works. All it does is tell you to save a state, load a state, or simulate the game. As long as your engine can save a state, that's the entirety of the functionality GGPO requires or cares about.

6 - Even if ALL my previous statements were untrue, Killer Instinct for the xBone uses rollback-based netcode and 3D models. So it is clearly possible to do both. (Note: The original "rollbacks don't work in 3D" was an erroneous comment from a Capcom PR rep with no technical background.)

tl;dr - The reason most companies choose not to use rollback netcode is because it is more difficult to write; you can write simple lag-based netcode in a matter of days. The reason Japanese companies choose not to use rollback netcode is that Japanese internet is good enough that lag-based netcode tends to not have enough problems in the Japan-vs-Japan average case to be noticeable, so they don't think it is worth the extra cost. And in reality the most likely reason that Japanese companies don't want to use GGPO is...it's not Japanese.

 

[AAK]

TTT2, T7, and SCV use Rollback and are Japanese.

 

[commanderpepper]

SFxT also uses a rollback system iirc.

 

[Mr. X]

TTT2, T7, and SCV use Rollback and are Japanese.

SCV is delay based.

Yes, Capcom made their own rollback netcode in SFxT

 

[toddhunter]

Just read the first couple of pages of that thread about MKX's online multiplayer and I'm legit wondering if I've been in a coma or something. Why do people want to play people from other regions online? In a fighting game... Its generally noticably bad playing people in the same city as you with most fighters. And this is NRS who don't have the best track record, why are people demanding to play internationally before they've even mastered decent same-country netplay? We're just gonna jump from unplayable to perfect worldwide online, which exactly zero fighting games with any version of any netcode have managed to do...

Want to play P4 or Blazblue or GG in Australia? Well you can't online because there is nobody to play against. Where you get a game is connecting to the Japanese lobbies. Sometimes you get kicked, but often you will get a game from somebody in the different regions and it will be just fine. It isn't EVO finals but you can have a match and it is enjoyable.

That is even before you consider countries that don't get a regional version. What version do you buy then? Better be the same as everybody else or you are fucked.

Maybe if gaming regions made sense you would be right, but suggesting it needs to be "perfect" so having no online at all is better is just kind of dismissing the reality of everything outside of America.

Cross regional play is very important to me. Not that I am buying mk of course, but if this is the trend rather than making decent netcode it is pack it up time.

 

[mbpm1]

Great join this if you can

http://steamcommunity.com/app/319280/discussions/0/617329505862037511/



*high five*

I don't have the game/stable internet tho, only my friend does. =/

Would do it if I could tho

 

[BakedYams]

Via Mike Z

1 - Bandwidth is not ever an issue. You do not send savestates over the internet, you send only inputs. This is also true of non-savestate-based fighting game net code...since everything is based on player inputs, there is never a need to send anything else. This is why fighting games don't generally let you join in as a spectator mid-match: since they are only sending the current frame's inputs, the game is incapable of sending a new spectator the game state, and so you can't join in once the game has already started because that would involve sending you the current state.

2 - Skullgirls renders everything in 3D using polygons, shaders, etc. Whether the result is polygons that form a 3D shape or polygons that form a flat mesh is irrelevant, nothing nowadays is "2D" in the sense of "drawing directly to the framebuffer rather than drawing polygons". And our backgrounds are "3D" in the sense of having skeletons, etc, so the entire is entirely capable of displaying 3D models, as well as saving and rolling back their state.

3 - Whether your engine is "3D" or "2D" is irrelevant for savestates. You do not save the rendering state as part of the savestate, you save the game state. As a concrete example, you MUST save things like "Where is the character / what frame of what animation are they currently on / what is the combo count" and you do NOT need to save things like "what are all the joint transforms for the current pose for the character" since that can be (and is) derived from "what frame of what animation are they currently on". And since the only difference between a "3D rendered" game and a "2D rendered" game comes well after the point at which the simulation ends, savestates are roughly equivalent between all types of fighting games.

3 - Even if you DID save all that unnecessary junk related to render state, it's not large. After all, there are only two to six characters, and even a complete copy of the physics state of a world can be stored in a few MB. Restoring that savestate on a modern PC or current-gen console hundreds of times per second is not a problem.

5 - GGPO doesn't care what's in your savestate or how your engine works. All it does is tell you to save a state, load a state, or simulate the game. As long as your engine can save a state, that's the entirety of the functionality GGPO requires or cares about.

6 - Even if ALL my previous statements were untrue, Killer Instinct for the xBone uses rollback-based netcode and 3D models. So it is clearly possible to do both. (Note: The original "rollbacks don't work in 3D" was an erroneous comment from a Capcom PR rep with no technical background.)

tl;dr - The reason most companies choose not to use rollback netcode is because it is more difficult to write; you can write simple lag-based netcode in a matter of days. The reason Japanese companies choose not to use rollback netcode is that Japanese internet is good enough that lag-based netcode tends to not have enough problems in the Japan-vs-Japan average case to be noticeable, so they don't think it is worth the extra cost. And in reality the most likely reason that Japanese companies don't want to use GGPO is...it's not Japanese.

I wish we had good internet as they do in Japan. Imagine lag-free online Marvel.

 

[Parallax Scroll]

imo more people should play marvel 2

 

[FourMyle]

I know Pugera is supposed to be a top JP player but I am not impressed with his play at all.

He got blown up yesterday in teams and now today in singles

he is out of the tourney

 

[Sorcerer Supreme]

That Oni

 

[UltraDavid]

One really awkward thing though was after the exhibition ended and I was trying to walk to concessions, I was walking behind these 3 guys and looking a spot to go around them because it was too crowded. After like 2-3 minutes of walking, I just noticed it was Chen, Ultradavid, and Valle and thought it would be really creepy to ask for a picture or try to chat them up because it might seem like I'm that guy tailing them for quite a bit of time. I have no qualms talking to people, I just don't want to seem like some kind of stan.

Nah don't be silly, we're always happy to talk!

 

[CPS2]

Want to play P4 or Blazblue or GG in Australia? Well you can't online because there is nobody to play against. Where you get a game is connecting to the Japanese lobbies. Sometimes you get kicked, but often you will get a game from somebody in the different regions and it will be just fine. It isn't EVO finals but you can have a match and it is enjoyable.

That is even before you consider countries that don't get a regional version. What version do you buy then? Better be the same as everybody else or you are fucked.

Maybe if gaming regions made sense you would be right, but suggesting it needs to be "perfect" so having no online at all is better is just kind of dismissing the reality of everything outside of America.

Cross regional play is very important to me. Not that I am buying mk of course, but if this is the trend rather than making decent netcode it is pack it up time.

This is Mortal Kombat though, and i'm reading a lot of these comments as "I demand to play Mortal Kombat how i usually do, online against the Japanese with 200-300ms+ ping." Like if there's nobody playing online in your country, luckily its Mortal Kombat and you can play it against the computer. Oh but that won't help you learn matchups and prepare for tournaments etc... then why not just play offline if thats the situation?

Maybe you get a good connection in a specific game with a specific netcode using a specific isp, on a wired connection with your ports forwarded, when the Japanese player happens to have their shit setup correctly. That just seems like more effort and luck than playing offline, or vs the cpu. And the tweet just said it'll work the same way their last 2 games did. So the outrage is insane.

 

[BakedYams]

Nah don't be silly, we're always happy to talk!

I'll be expecting a gief mirror match at CEO then.

Spoiler

Don't mind me, I'm kidding.

 

[SapientWolf]

tell me how they don't pop out.

Big assumption there.

 

[mbpm1]

I'll be expecting a gief mirror match at CEO then.

Spoiler

Don't mind me, I'm kidding.

Good choice.

Spoiler

Don't want to lose to Ultra even with his messed up hands Kappa

 

[commanderpepper]

Wish I could watch the rest of Nine States but it's too late for me.

 

[BakedYams]

Good choice.

Spoiler

Don't want to lose to Ultra even with his messed up hands Kappa

Dude we have to go to bed, its 3 in the morning for us lol.

 

[Zissou]

I wish we had good internet as they do in Japan. Imagine lag-free online Marvel.

Even Japanese internet can't save online marvel.

 

[toddhunter]

This is Mortal Kombat though, and i'm reading a lot of these comments as "I demand to play Mortal Kombat how i usually do, online against the Japanese with 200-300ms+ ping." Like if there's nobody playing online in your country, luckily its Mortal Kombat and you can play it against the computer. Oh but that won't help you learn matchups and prepare for tournaments etc... then why not just play offline if thats the situation?

Maybe you get a good connection in a specific game with a specific netcode using a specific isp, on a wired connection with your ports forwarded, when the Japanese player happens to have their shit setup correctly. That just seems like more effort and luck than playing offline, or vs the cpu. And the tweet just said it'll work the same way their last 2 games did. So the outrage is insane.

You stated that nobody would want cross regional play for a fighting game. This isn't true as I and several other people have pointed out. You don't need to be training for tournaments to play online. Playing online against people is simply more fun than the cpu and offline often isn't an option.

As for the comments about stars needing to align for it to work? It also isn't true. I've played countless games online, for years, across different games. It is more than good enough to enjoy yourself and if that takes a big effort than apparently lots of people have their shit together.

Now does this apply to Mortal Kombat? I don't think many people will actually play the fighting bit, let alone online so you are probably right.

So complain about the fake outrage if you will, but understand that in general it is not a concern to be dismissed, even if the regions hit by it are small.

 

[irfaanator]

sketch giving the shoutouts to the columbus scene lol

edit: wtf lol rkappa has a promo vid. this is great

 

[Rainy]

god infiltration doing some disgusting stuff with decapre.

 

[Rice-Eater]

Infiltration is getting so much mileage out of that empty stomp move. It seems like nobody can react to it right now. Seriously it's annoying as fuck and I hope he eventually gets blown up for it.

 

[NEO0MJ]

Infiltration is getting so much mileage out of that empty stomp move. It seems like nobody can react to it right now. Seriously it's annoying as fuck and I hope he eventually gets blown up for it.

Didn't catch the match, but what makes that move so bad to deal with?

 

[Rainy]

ooh shiro sent poongko to losers.

 

[toddhunter]

ooh shiro sent poongko to losers.

Was a good match. I thought he was all over Shiro but he held it together well.

 

[ThatCrazyGuy]

Alpha male shiro.

 

[Rhapsody]

Damn, Infiltration lol

 

[RedEther]

Japan can't stop Infil's Decapre it seems.