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[kiphalfton]

Interesting, aside from the annoying doom and gloom posts you see all over the place regarding sales, Matt had mentioned that FF7 Remake was now #2 in lifetime dollar sales across all Final Fantasy releases - only behind FFXV at #1. I believe (I'm using vague details, so I'm probably off) that FF7 Remake sold around (or was estimated) 3 to 3.5 million copies within a week. About 5 months later, Square Enix finally broke silence and released a statement saying it has sold 5 million copies up to that point - then they went silent going forward.

If that's the case, FF7 Remake definitely had some additional legs and the eventual EGS release gave it some life. Mix that in with discounts overtime too. The higher price helps of course in terms of lifetime dollar sales though, but to be #2 at this point was definitely an interesting note.

When you look at that and how FF7 Rebirth is doing, it seems to be following that trend. Aside from not selling as much as one would hope, it's about on par with what one would expect. Regardless of hype or nostalgia, I wouldn't expect any release in the trilogy doing more than a mainline (FFXVI and future ones) release. They were relatively close in terms of sales, but overall FF7 Rebirth is trailing just after a month (Total estimate is around 2 to 2.5 million so far). I think eventually once this releases to other platforms + mix in with discounts/sales + promotions, it'll eventually leg its way up just like FF7 Remake did.

I don't see any impact to the upcoming part 3 either (in terms of budge/changes), they'll likely continue on as normal. Once they wrap up the trilogy, Square Enix will do their usual and take advantage of this trilogy and market it all around (Bundles, Integration for one super collection, upgrades to PS6, etc.).

Could the sales be better? Fuck yeah it could be, especially since the game is really great.

But seeing how FF7 Remake climbed since initial release, I think it'll do just fine after some time. Unless Square Enix announces it during their Quarterly Earnings call, I'm figuring we won't hear anything for another few months - then likely radio silence until they start to market the last part of the trilogy.

You seem to be extrapolating sales of FFVII Rebirth based off FFVII Remake sales, which is a huge assumption.

Just because FFVII Remake has a particular trajectory, doesn't mean FFVII Rebirth will follow that same trajectory.

 

[MagiusNecros]

And then FFXVI… Which was a good but not great but to say it had “unforgivable shortcomings” is not only off-base but it completely unwinds your argument about new IPs. You think they should develop a brand new title with mechanics that differ from traditional SQEX JRPGs but scoff at new mechanics. Maybe port begging is really the game you'd like to continue playing from SQEX.

FFXVI has all the design flaws and shortcomings of FFXIV so they aren't wrong there. The design philosophy might work in XIV but as a DMC clone it falls short in many areas. It's apparent as a XIV player but I think for people not coming from XIV it's serviceable as a game. Not to mention the game's "raging fire, dying embers" storytelling.

Pretty apparent the remaining staff at SE try to reinvent the wheel and chase trends every game and just give Final Fantasy a lack of identity. Of course some may say that FF's identity now is to have no identity.

 

[mayham2199]

Wonder if they're regretting splitting the game into multiple parts yet.

Let's say they would have sold 10+ million copies for a consolidated game (had they not split it up into multiple parts). That's better than 10+ million copies sold across 3 games. Mainly because of marketing three separate games, versus one. Between that and development cost, my god all-in cost has to be astronomical.

Yea but you also have to add in the cost of what Sony paid for the game to begin with. Sony also provided help through man power. They also let Sony increase their exclusive contract for Remake so I'm guessing SE is enjoying the money they are getting for these games. They didn't just get paid once for the Remake exclusive deal, they then got paid again to extend it. Did they also get paid again to make all three games exclusive? How much did Epic pay them for the exclusivity of Remake?

There's to much guessing about these games and we have no data about the deals that took place behind the scenes. I doubt SE is unhappy with how this has unfolded. On top of that once the contract ends you know MS is going to throw them a bag for the games to come to game pass. They also still have Rebirth coming to PC. Is Epic going to pay them again for exclusivity?

SE got paid by Sony x 2 for Remake. They then got paid by Epic. Then they still went to Steam and last but not least when it's all said and done they can go to Xbox. Have a hard time believing they aren't coming out on top with these deals.

 

[Three]

Honestly Matt has become a joke pushing this all the time. He's obviously trying to push the multiplatform agenda and only doing it with Sony titles it seems. In the UK FF7rebirth sales were up 6% over the FF16 launch they were likely down in the US. Why is he drawing conclusions with exclusivity on this? what good is comparing FF7 Part 2 sales to FF16?

They're not the same game, they're not even sequels of one another. One requires that you would have played Part 1 to play part 2. The audience who want to play a sequel to FF7 Part 1 might be smaller than FF16 because you're talking about an install base within an install base of players for that entry. Tbh FF7 Part 1 was on PS+ and I would have expected that to help sales but maybe those people are not as likely to buy games so not as likely to buy the sequel as I originally thought. Maybe they are expecting for part 2 to go there too.

The bizarre thing is that he never pushes this narrative of franchise sales doing worse than the previous release and needing to go multiplaform day one with anything else! Dead Rising 4, Crossfire X, Forza motorsport, Gears 5, Halo infinite, Metroid, Bayonetta 3, nothing on those. He won't ever disclose how bad those have done in sales compared to predecessors. Did he ever say how any of the multiplatform releases owe their success to PC either?

His agenda is obvious. He loves to make it seem like Sony creating exclusives for Playstation is a mistake and tries to make Sony third party partnerships seem like a failure.

 

[GrouchyGamer]

Deserves a lot more sales than that, silver lining it might accelerate the release of the final chapter.

 

[pleaseinsertdisctwo]

Wonder if they're regretting splitting the game into multiple parts yet.

Let's say they would have sold 10+ million copies for a consolidated game (had they not split it up into multiple parts). That's better than 10+ million copies sold across 3 games. Mainly because of marketing three separate games, versus one. Between that and development cost, my god all-in cost has to be astronomical.

It was a stupid decision. Almost half as stupid as taking out the opening of XV and turning it into a 110 minute CGI movie.

 

[Three]

Wonder if they're regretting splitting the game into multiple parts yet.

Let's say they would have sold 10+ million copies for a consolidated game (had they not split it up into multiple parts). That's better than 10+ million copies sold across 3 games. Mainly because of marketing three separate games, versus one. Between that and development cost, my god all-in cost has to be astronomical.

Doesn't work like that though. If they had created the entire Trilogy as one game they wouldn't have had any income for 7+years instead of 3years. They wouldn't have had deals for PS+ for the first and they couldn't have released dlc (Yuffie). If they had created one entry it would have been a 7+ year project, been a smaller scale game, and still might not have sold more than the first installment did anyway. SE probably would have gone under with a project like that.

 

[FoxMcChief]

Rebirth performing worse than ffxvi is sacrilege.

True. I played FF7Rebirth at least twice as long as FF16, before dropping off it.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Honestly Matt has become a joke pushing this all the time. He's obviously trying to push the multiplatform agenda and only doing it with Sony titles it seems. In the UK FF7rebirth sales were up 6% over the FF16 launch they were likely down in the US. Why is he drawing conclusions with exclusivity on this? what good is comparing FF7 Part 2 sales to FF16?

They're not the same game, they're not even sequels of one another. One requires that you would have played Part 1 to play part 2. The audience who want to play a sequel to FF7 Part 1 might be smaller than FF16 because you're talking about an install base within an install base of players for that entry. Tbh FF7 Part 1 was on PS+ and I would have expected that to help sales but maybe those people are not as likely to buy games so not as likely to buy the sequel as I originally thought. Maybe they are expecting for part 2 to go there too.

The bizarre thing is that he never pushes this narrative of franchise sales doing worse than the previous release and needing to go multiplaform day one with anything else! Dead Rising 4, Crossfire X, Forza motorsport, Gears 5, Halo infinite, Metroid, Bayonetta 3, nothing on those. He won't ever disclose how bad those have done in sales compared to predecessors. Did he ever say how any of the multiplatform releases owe their success to PC either?

His agenda is obvious. He loves to make it seem like Sony creating exclusives for Playstation is a mistake and tries to make Sony third party partnerships seem like a failure.

Fat pigsatella isn’t very big brain

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

I'd guess that part of SE's heavy losses are because of Western influences that fans see right through. Luckily there's talk of them stopping it and staying true to their roots, as it should be.

 

[kiphalfton]

Doesn't work like that though. If they had created the entire Trilogy as one game they wouldn't have had any income for 7+years instead of 3years. They wouldn't have had deals for PS+ for the first and they couldn't have released dlc (Yuffie). If they had created one entry it would have been a 7+ year project, been a smaller scale game, and still might not have sold more than the first installment did anyway. SE probably would have gone under with a project like that.

How does multiplying the marketing by 3 help them? That's one of the biggest cost in making a game.

True they wouldn't have any income from FFVII if they took longer to develop it... However, they DO have other games in development, that they release, that either directly or indirectly supports development of bigger games (read Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts).

And no "they wouldn't have gone under". They've mismanaged several series, and yet are still kicking.

It didn't need to be spanned across 3 games, but Square wanted to be greedy. Can't blame them since it is FFVII, but it clearly isn't selling as much as anybody would have expected.

 

[Three]

How does multiplying the marketing by 3 help them? That's one of the biggest cost in making a game.

PlayStation secured a 3 game deal. The marketing agreement with Sony probably helped more than it cost. Sony did a big part of the marketing.

True they wouldn't have any income from FFVII if they took longer to develop it... However, they DO have other games in development, that they release, that either directly or indirectly supports development of bigger games (read Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts).

And no "they wouldn't have gone under". They've mismanaged several series, and yet are still kicking.

The studio developing it would have been incurring nothing but cost for years. There's nothing beneficial in that. You would just be funneling other game releases income into the cost of development for the other. Studios within SE are accountable individually.

It didn't need to be spanned across 3 games, but Square wanted to be greedy. Can't blame them since it is FFVII, but it clearly isn't selling as much as anybody would have expected.

So if they wanted to be greedy they've figured that it is beneficial financially, right?

The question is what makes you think the single game would have sold more than FF7Remake on its own?

 

[fallingdove]

FFXVI has all the design flaws and shortcomings of FFXIV so they aren't wrong there. The design philosophy might work in XIV but as a DMC clone it falls short in many areas. It's apparent as a XIV player but I think for people not coming from XIV it's serviceable as a game. Not to mention the game's "raging fire, dying embers" storytelling.

Pretty apparent the remaining staff at SE try to reinvent the wheel and chase trends every game and just give Final Fantasy a lack of identity. Of course some may say that FF's identity now is to have no identity.

I agree. And honestly, Final Fantasy is dying for the same reasons that traditional JRPGs are dying. The identity of JRPGs was connected to scale and progression and story and music. Western studios took the best of those elements, elevated the production value, and accelerated production.

The output of western studios have put SQEX in the difficult position of chasing popular games, making more dramatic changes from one entry to the next and fragmenting the fanbase even further.

Final Fantasy fans are the worst because they can't be happy about an entry if it doesn't exactly mirror their favorite entry so everyone is always complaining about x, y, or z thing.

That also doesn't resolve the situation with the green rat people who still don't play these titles regardless of whether or not they have access to them.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

Doesn't work like that though. If they had created the entire Trilogy as one game they wouldn't have had any income for 7+years instead of 3years. They wouldn't have had deals for PS+ for the first and they couldn't have released dlc (Yuffie). If they had created one entry it would have been a 7+ year project, been a smaller scale game, and still might not have sold more than the first installment did anyway. SE probably would have gone under with a project like that.

Part 1 took 7 years. Granted it was in serious development hell...

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Deserves a lot more sales than that, silver lining it might accelerate the release of the final chapter.

I so hope it does, because I'm worried they'll try to make it PS6 exclusive.

 

[Three]

Part 1 took 7 years. Granted it was in serious development hell...

Yeah I calculated/worded it completely wrong, 3 years would be between remake and rebirth but I said "had" too so it made no sense at all.

If they were making a game with the exact same scope of the trilogy at the exact same pace they have up until now we would be at a minimum of 10+ years plus whatever time it takes to make the third game.

 

[lh032]

That’s the big one for me: I don’t own a PS5. I had hoped they would have had a bundle for it, but since they didn’t, I’ve just opted to wait until a new PS5 model releases, and INSANELY good deal on existing ones, or just wait for PC.

I honestly can’t wait to play, and have been avoiding spoilers, but definitely bummed I didn’t get to play at launch. Got laid off, so not the time to be buying a system just for one game.

Hope you get a job asap

 

[Dr. Claus]

I agree. And honestly, Final Fantasy is dying for the same reasons that traditional JRPGs are dying. The identity of JRPGs was connected to scale and progression and story and music. Western studios took the best of those elements, elevated the production value, and accelerated production.

The output of western studios have put SQEX in the difficult position of chasing popular games, making more dramatic changes from one entry to the next and fragmenting the fanbase even further.

Final Fantasy fans are the worst because they can't be happy about an entry if it doesn't exactly mirror their favorite entry so everyone is always complaining about x, y, or z thing.

That also doesn't resolve the situation with the green rat people who still don't play these titles regardless of whether or not they have access to them.

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

And when the Activision/Blizzard catalog is given to all gamepass subscribers how will you convince me that Microsoft didn't go and give me much more value for my gamepass subscription? I was going to pay $70 every year for every call of duty and I was gunna keep paying for gamepass anyway so yes I'm gunna say that they added a great deal of value for me by making this acquisition. And that's just the COD games. Oh and I don't even need to buy and Xbox. I just use my PC. How are ppl possibly hating this?! This is great news for consumers and you are acting against our own interests to pretend that it's not.

It's not about what's cheap to Gamepass subscribers. It's about the total games being made and where they're available. Even if they keep every studio on every platform that's still a net negative as they fired a bunch of people after acquiring and will not add anything.

Invest in small studios and help them grow or their games grow even before buying. ShiftUp said Stellar Blade was smaller before Sony got involved. The only one I've heard about Xbox actually helping was psychonauts 2 and even that's pretty questionable and perhaps just pr as they were already owned by Ms at the point they said it so they don't wanna piss off their bosses