Brigandier
Member
Yeah I was scratching my head at the learning curve comment.... It was an easy game with a story that was all over the place and badly unfinished.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Final Fantasy 16 Extremely Underperformed On PC; Sold Only 289K Units Since Launch
- Thread starter AW_CL
- Start date
Yeah I was scratching my head at the learning curve comment.... It was an easy game with a story that was all over the place and badly unfinished.
FullMetalx117
Member
Final fantasy just not that cool anymore. They tried to make it more grounded game of thrones like - interesting honestly- but ended up being a typical fight against gods with a dumb story in the end
PC vs PS5? They’re all PCs at this point…don’t even think the old master race realizes who makes up the majority of their current ilk (people who hardly care about PC parts)
PC vs PS5? They’re all PCs at this point…don’t even think the old master race realizes who makes up the majority of their current ilk (people who hardly care about PC parts)
Last edited:
Idleyes
Gold Member
Look, for those of us who cherished Final Fantasy’s turn-based roots, the shift to action combat felt like a shock to the system. We thought that kind of gameplay was reserved for MMORPGs, not the mainline series. So while the person you're responding to has a bullshit argument for accusing you of being toxic, some of us OG's are still fucked up over it.
That said, I have to admit, Final Fantasy VII Remake and Rebirth has helped me come to terms with the change. My condition has improved… slowly, but surely, I’ve come around.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
That's the difference.Look, for those of us who cherished Final Fantasy’s turn-based roots, the shift to action combat felt like a shock to the system. We thought that kind of gameplay was reserved for MMORPGs, not the mainline series. So while the person you're responding to has a bullshit argument for accusing you of being toxic, some of us OG's are still fucked up over it.
That said, I have to admit, Final Fantasy VII Remake and Rebirth has helped me come to terms with the change. My condition has improved… slowly, but surely, I’ve come around.
I played those modern FF games and they felt incredibly refreshing and youthful to me.
Brigandier
Member
Look, for those of us who cherished Final Fantasy’s turn-based roots, the shift to action combat felt like a shock to the system. We thought that kind of gameplay was reserved for MMORPGs, not the mainline series. So while the person you're responding to has a bullshit argument for accusing you of being toxic, some of us OG's are still fucked up over it.
That said, I have to admit, Final Fantasy VII Remake and Rebirth has helped me come to terms with the change. My condition has improved… slowly, but surely, I’ve come around.
Hopefully Expedition 33 has a really good combat system and sells/reviews well so more games take notice.
I always say that FF should have a choice of turn based or action in the games settings but the amount of people that think this would cost far too much money and time hammer that opinion.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
I realize that it's unpopular opinion. I am 35, I always played games and turn based already started feeling ancient in the late 90s to me.
There are action games everywhere around... so why do we have to pretend to fight in these games rather than just fight like in an action game?
FF 7 remake/rebirth found a great compromise. It really is just a real time combat with active pause
asdasdasdbb
Member
Square originally said they were going to offer the option to do something turn based in Remake. But that was watered down to the Classic Mode which is still there in Rebirth.
... Do you think anyone played in Classic Mode? I have no idea.
Last edited:
Brigandier
Member
I personally like the combat in FF7 and Rebirth but there are a LOT of people who want turn based hence why I think there should be options for turn based or action based, See if the sales increase to like they once was it's worth a try imo.
Idleyes
Gold Member
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Real test will be Stellar Blade.
Mods and boobs aside, it's a fantastic game with soulslike combat... more like dmc mixed with sekiro.
The exploration, lyrical feel of it. Atmosphere.
Remember guys. When Stellar blade comes out, play normally for a minute. Immerse youself... eidos 7, rain, ruined city with huge, beautiful statues. It's such a good game. don't rush.
And this is also what I liked about XVI. I put the feeling and world atmosphere above gameplay at times. That said, while I liked ff16 combat and gameplay, Stellar Blade got WAY better combat and pacing with side quests and stuff.
One thing both games have in common - Music in both dynamically switches between exploration and combat style without loosing a beat. Amazing.
These are the moments I enjoy in gaming:
Sure the game is rather simplistic but it's ok with me. I don't want every game to be super complicated. And this game got just enough depth to support the crazy visuals.
I mean, I challenge anyone to simply just click away with this enemy.
So my point being. if pc players won't support Stellar Blade and for what it really is (at least for 1st playthrough cmon), there is no hope
Mods and boobs aside, it's a fantastic game with soulslike combat... more like dmc mixed with sekiro.
The exploration, lyrical feel of it. Atmosphere.
Remember guys. When Stellar blade comes out, play normally for a minute. Immerse youself... eidos 7, rain, ruined city with huge, beautiful statues. It's such a good game. don't rush.
And this is also what I liked about XVI. I put the feeling and world atmosphere above gameplay at times. That said, while I liked ff16 combat and gameplay, Stellar Blade got WAY better combat and pacing with side quests and stuff.
One thing both games have in common - Music in both dynamically switches between exploration and combat style without loosing a beat. Amazing.
These are the moments I enjoy in gaming:
Sure the game is rather simplistic but it's ok with me. I don't want every game to be super complicated. And this game got just enough depth to support the crazy visuals.
I mean, I challenge anyone to simply just click away with this enemy.
This is why I play video games. The amazing music, scope of going up the space elevator. just wow. No story spoiler. Just location
and the combat theme for that level. Spectacular
and the combat theme for that level. Spectacular
So my point being. if pc players won't support Stellar Blade and for what it really is (at least for 1st playthrough cmon), there is no hope
Last edited:
mayham2199
Member
It still amazes me that I even bothered to finish FF15. I think I only did it because of how good it looked on my 3080 but man did I hate everything about that game.
Red Crayon Aristocrat
Member
Final Fantasy as a brand only appeals to weebs, weebs are not a big enough audience to support AAA budgets.
I wish it wasn't like this but it is, Square is still chasing that dream of the PS1/PS2 era when it had crossover success but the ship has sailed on that and is never coming back, mainstream gamers don't care, only 7 still has enough cache, but any new numbered entry mainstream audiences don't care.
I wish it wasn't like this but it is, Square is still chasing that dream of the PS1/PS2 era when it had crossover success but the ship has sailed on that and is never coming back, mainstream gamers don't care, only 7 still has enough cache, but any new numbered entry mainstream audiences don't care.
PSlayer
Member
It's more than that, Final fanstasy is a millenial franchise.The elephant in the room is that 90s kids are now middle aged and too busy to support all their favorite franchises from the past. Zoomers and Alphas are suposed to replace us but they don't care about most of the 90s weeb shit because they were raised in the 2000/2010s playing stuff like COD,Roblox,minecraft,Fortnite,etc...
It is also the reason we have so many remakes of 90s games. Companies are desperately trying to reintroduce their IPs for Zoomers and alphas whom are know more about FNAF than Zelda.
Even nintendo is making movies now because they fear alphas won't buy their shit in the future.
Felessan
Member
China though prefer action games to RPG.
Those are AA titles that have a fraction of budget and a fraction of sales of Final Fantasy.
Problem of FF is that it's a proper AAA jRPG and there are literally no market for them
It's good though
Has the same problem as FF14 - slow and boring pacing at start, but epicness is unreal in the latter part.
Those never played/would play FF. Those who potentially would if things were different now plays Genshin/HSR.
Anime was even more niche that time when FF was on a peak of popularity.
diffusionx
Gold Member
It's not a proper AAA JRPG, it's a shitty bloated action game.
FFXVI didn't even sell that well. Sega was much happier with the sales from Persona 5 and Metaphor. Maybe Square should spend less money and make a real RPG.
Felessan
Member
It's an action jRPG as they always was.
jRPG is not about turn-based combat, games like Tales of exists for decades. And it's already 20 years since FF moved from turn-based.
Happier, yes. But Persona/Metaphor is AA game on much lesser budget that sells ~3 times less~ than "failing" FF.
And mainline FF always was associated with AAA level of quality, SE make smaller games, doesn't help them much.
diffusionx
Gold Member
you are dense if you compare the battle system in this game to even something like Tales or the old FF games. This game is trying to be a low rent DMC.
The actual number of units sold doesn't matter if you lose money compared to the other guys who make money. FF16 is not an AAA quality game, it has high production values, but it lets down the franchise like every FF the past two decades. Metaphor also got nominated and won awards for GOTY, thus maybe it actually is the AAA game vs. FF16 which was forgotten two weeks after it came out.
Last edited:
Felessan
Member
The game is just evolution of RPG into more action. Basically adjusted system from FF14 modified for SP game, and FF14 is an RPG.
Numbers always matter when talking about success. It's really important when we talk about niche "weeby" game that sale 1 mil or mass-market game that aimed to 3-5m+. It's completely different markets, players expectations, quality targets etc.
And FF IS AAA game, you might fantasize all you want about "creative meaning of AAA", but AAA is exactly that - high production values and nothing else. And by this definition Metaphor is AA, medium budget game with mediocre production values targeting mid-range of sales.
No one stops AA or even indie be a great game, but lets not substitute concepts.
Last edited:
diffusionx
Gold Member
No, it's not. Just because it is action doesnt mean it is "evolved." It means it is an action game. it doesn't play anything like FF14 (FF12 is much closer to FF14 style).
Just to make it clear. FF16 lost money, and Square wasnt happy with its sales, and the game was forgotten.
Metaphor made money, Sega was thrilled, it won GOTY and was nominated in places, and got raves.
Which position would you rather be? Who cares about AAA or AA? I'd rather FF be a great AA game that is beloved and wins award than a shitty AAA game most people hate.
Last edited:
Felessan
Member
It is. FF12 is close to FF11, and FF14 have full action combat that very similar to FF16.
SE clearly cares. AAA is a different market from AA with different rules, different sized teams and different expected profits.
SE have other games for AA market and it clearly takes pride of being like the only one left in AAA jRPG scene. They try to make it work, but its hard in current condition. And not because some people wants it to be turn-based (it'll kill it in mass-market), but because SE basically lost most of Asia to gacha games and western weebs are just not enough to support AAA jRPG.
If FF16 would sell same proportion Japan/West as previous games, it would add another like 2+ mil to sales meeting SE expectations. It's just kinda hard to do it right now.
PS. you should not really substitute forum populace that "hates FF16" with mass market populace - those have completely different tastes.
diffusionx
Gold Member
lol
"AAA" really is a fake construction, first of all. It's just an arbitrary term people apply to certain games. But the conceit is that you spend more money to make more money. If you spend more money but make less money, you have failed. If you spend a huge budget to make your game look fancy and have nice voice actors, but you don't make money by doing so, you have failed. It's really that simple.
Also, this idea that the game HAS to be realtime DMC-style combat to be viable is idiotic, because the game was not viable. We are not talking about a successful game here.
You're just totally wrong.
Zathalus
Member
Completely untrue of course. Just going with a peak 100k CCU cutoff since the start of this generation (so end of 2020), and you get 52 games (that have strong single-player) in total. Genres include action RPGs, RPGs, survival, FPS, TPS, simulators, souls-like, strategy, fighting, sports, and arcade.
Drop that CCU count to 50k (enough to get you to several million sales over a few years if your game is good), and the list in the hundreds with even more genres.
2DHD remakes or new entries in the spirit of the 16 bit games would outsell FF16 at a fraction of the cost. Not sure what Square was thinking with FF16, those side quest are meaningless and suck the same on PC and console. The pace of the game was terrible. So many flaws. the game sold poorly on Console, so PC sales being low was expected. PC Master race doesn't own a PC for FF.
Oberstein
Member
It's not so much about being inspired by the West as it is about creating a game that lacks its essence. I don't hate FFXVI, but objectively, it doesn't have all the attributes or even the depth of previous Final Fantasy titles.
A true return to the roots isn't just about aligning the intrinsic elements of the series—crystals, summons, and chocobos. As Naoki Hamaguchi recently said:
They now have a set framework and think globally from the very start, which wasn't the case before. Over time, this approach has gradually erased the series' unique and sometimes even absurd characteristics. Once again, I don't hate FFXVI, but it would have been better as a spin-off.
Felessan
Member
AAA is a specific term describing budget and production values of the game. And high budget defines target auditory and as result style, game mechanics, story etc. Because masses should like it to game be financially viable to make on big scale. It's always choice of a company (and sometimes driven by pride even though it's risky in current environment) to choose AAA instead of sticking to shitty low quality titles. And SE, having got their constant money flow can allow themselves game made out of pride. Again - they can do AA in side games and other franchises they have, bu their pedigree franchise, they keep at a high point.
Your silly attempts to shift narrative just because you like weeb niche shit and jealous of high production values game made not for your liking but mass market liking is hilarious
Action combat is vastly more popular, especially in core markets for jRPG, it's understandable that SE, who for sure know a lot more than you, follows it.
You are just delusional
FewRope
Member
Or releasing FF VII Remake on Xbox like 6 years later, genius idea
Denton
Member
I was hyped for FF16 when it launched.
I was not hyped for it anymore year after launch and ton of bad word of mouth. And you already made me wait for a year - so now I can wait longer for a discount.
If you want maximum sales on all platforms, offer your game on all platforms same time. You are not Rockstar.
I was not hyped for it anymore year after launch and ton of bad word of mouth. And you already made me wait for a year - so now I can wait longer for a discount.
If you want maximum sales on all platforms, offer your game on all platforms same time. You are not Rockstar.
Last edited:
{insert code here}
Member
Square honestly need to bring Sakaguchi back and put him in charge. It's been 20 years it's time to put the past aside and let him back in the kitchen so he can cook.
Just go down the list from X thru XVI and it becomes clear that Square have no idea what to do with the IP. The last good FF was XII thanks mostly to Matsuno but that wasn't even a traditional FF style of game.
XVI is probably good, I will play it, but in a time where Japanese games and anime are more popular than ever (arguably) they are fumbling it. They leaned too hard into GoT when they shoulda leaned into anime.
Just go down the list from X thru XVI and it becomes clear that Square have no idea what to do with the IP. The last good FF was XII thanks mostly to Matsuno but that wasn't even a traditional FF style of game.
XVI is probably good, I will play it, but in a time where Japanese games and anime are more popular than ever (arguably) they are fumbling it. They leaned too hard into GoT when they shoulda leaned into anime.
Sharius
Member
FF need to go back to their root rather than try to invent new thing, yes, FF game alway try new thing in every game, but their game doing dogshit since 12, while veteran player keep asking for old tradition FF game, just look at persona game, their formula almost unchange from game to game and they are doing just fine
Myths
Member
No FF objectively has all the elements of its predecessors as each one is a distinct and independent game.* At best, we’re arbitrarily referring to a period in which games were more similar than others due to a combination of deliberate design decisions and technological constraints. The deliberate part was the usage of ATB/turn-based but there was never anything stopping them from doing Zelda I/II or Crystalis. You even see a purposeful attempt in a one off like FF Mystic Quest.
It's not so much about being inspired by the West as it is about creating a game that lacks its essence. I don't hate FFXVI, but objectively, it doesn't have all the attributes or even the depth of previous Final Fantasy titles.
A true return to the roots isn't just about aligning the intrinsic elements of the series—crystals, summons, and chocobos. As Naoki Hamaguchi recently said:
They now have a set framework and think globally from the very start, which wasn't the case before. Over time, this approach has gradually erased the series' unique and sometimes even absurd characteristics. Once again, I don't hate FFXVI, but it would have been better as a spin-off.
But sampling across the entirety of the franchise, it’s obvious by now they are intent on experimentation and reinvention with every entry. This idea of “magic/charm” and “return to its roots” is mostly ineffable romanticization, however it usually reduces to 1-10’s ATB/turn-based combat systems.
*With exception of the online games which, alongside FF3 (JP), would probably be the closest to the origin of the series.
Last edited:
Hawk The Slayer
Member
Day 1 release would have helped a lot when the hype and momentum was at it's highest. FFXVI does look worse than Rebirth in art style with it being at 27k cp compared to 40k cp for Rebirth and with several times less pages of discussion too so Rebirth should have better leg.
xenosys
Member
If sales estimates are anything to go by, Rebirth has already comfortably out-sold FFXVI despite being it being released almost 6 weeks ago.
Neofire
Member
This is a false and no data exists to prove otherwise.
xenosys
Member
Veteran FF players have mostly either aged out or moved on.
This idea that if you made a turn-based game again, suddenly it'd sell 10m copies like it used to is pure fantasy, pardon the pun. The great turn-based games that are out NOW don't sell anywhere near that many. Persona 5 and DQ11 are the only 'recent' exceptions and they've both still got a bit to go before they hit that milestone.
Last edited:
even with years of updates and expansions it stil is average so at launch day its not surprising it hurt he brand
Killer8
Member
The demo probably tanked people's interest. Heavy spec requirements and another shitty PC port - half the reviews are people complaining about performance. The game is rated favourably on PS5 by users (4.52 on PS Store, 8.4 on Metacritic). If the core game was as bad as people say then it wouldn't even be approaching those numbers.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
You can say a lot of things about XV but not average
the marketing also was done very well to show off a agame that has alot of depth when the game is average game ,but honestly at this point the only way ff to gain new casual fans and get ff to be popular again is by word of mouth and strong dedicated fanbase, atm is has neither. if they release something really good overtime slowly word of mouth and fans would come back. I could see a good mainline entry if the devs went with ignis philospphy tech demo for ps4 as base game for ps5 ff entry. rumors are square eniq instead turned that tech demo into forspoken and then made up ff16. which lines up. agni philopshy if it turned into final fantasy would have ben miles better then forspoken from story and character wise as that tech demo really imporessed everyone. forspoken already has those gameplay mechanics in movement and i could see the main character jump around those huge favala houses
Last edited:
Myths
Member
I never understood this myself either. Square has offered plenty alternatives, Final Fantasy Dimensions, 4 Heroes of Light, Bravely Default, Octopath… it goes on. They can do spinoffs embodying those gameplay designs/design philosophies and keep the mainline philosophy of reinvention/experimentation intact. This is opposite of most franchises that reverse this decision.
Seems like this notion of ‘return’ is a broader stance in conservatism or preservation of status quo (and stagnation). I’ll say that the Stagger/Break system has run its course for me though.
Last edited:
i dont agree , ff is good when their games are good,releasing half hearted games without good ideas in them turns fans off, if you dont have good idea or bring somethng new to the game dont even make it. ff16 should have ben more of rts where maybe you control kindom armies etc through a map ,they heavily promoted that theme ,instead it was stale ol ff big monsters fight each other crystals bs
Sharius
Member
Honestly FF16 suffer from lack of content, not really much to do ti explore the world, just move on with story and stuff, while FF7 rebirth has way too much minigame, they should balance that out and put on some optional dungeon or secret brand in dungeon for us to explore, they make FF16 with eperience of FF14 dungeon, just a straight line to the boss, while it work as MMO, it's boring as an offline game
Rather than that FF16 equipment doesn't feel like a reward at all, more like i have to upgrade my stuff to keep up with game, even best weapon being reward after certain point of story, and "ultimate weapon" just a copy of that one with different appearance rather than a "big reward" like other FF game, combat is good, but all other system beside combat feel swallow
Rather than that FF16 equipment doesn't feel like a reward at all, more like i have to upgrade my stuff to keep up with game, even best weapon being reward after certain point of story, and "ultimate weapon" just a copy of that one with different appearance rather than a "big reward" like other FF game, combat is good, but all other system beside combat feel swallow
ff16 should have ben alot more rts with a map and where you control armies if your promoting game of thrones like kingdoms. something new and intresting then mmo like quests til next cutscene
Oberstein
Member
It’s important to recognize that the series has always evolved, often radically, with each new entry. That said, there are still elements that many fans feel have been lost along the way—things like a focus on traditional turn-based combat, more fantastical settings, and the whimsy that defined the earlier games.
While FFXVI represents a significant shift, the idea of a “return to the roots” for Final Fantasy doesn’t mean simply copying old formulas, but rather finding a balance between innovation and the essence of what made the earlier games so special. Square Enix could definitely benefit from embracing more of what fans loved about the older titles—something closer to the charm, creativity, and deep world-building seen in classics like FFVI or FFIX, without losing the progress they’ve made in terms of gameplay and storytelling.
In short, there’s a real opportunity for Square Enix to revisit the essence of Final Fantasy, but in a way that brings back some of the old magic while still allowing the series to evolve.
And it's not about romanticizing the past, but rather acknowledging what made those games resonate—deep storytelling, memorable worlds, and character-driven experiences. These elements can still be relevant today without being a mere nostalgia trip.
Felessan
Member
He can't even make his own, much smaller, games to sell.
No one cares about "veteran player" rumbling on the forum. Persona lifetime sales is an FF16 1st week sales - not really a target for FF game that try to stay in the same bucket as before.
If money is a goal ignoring anything else - FF16 just should have been scrapped altogether and all resources poured back to FF14 Dawntrail (which was delayed for an year due to FF16), it for sure brings more money with less risk. And turn-based... who cares about those pennies
Similar threads
- Locked