TheChillyAcademic
Member
Never say never! I have a good feeling for this banner with GAF!
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Final Fantasy Brave Exvius |OT2| All your Shadows Belong To Us
- Thread starter Rixa
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Never say never! I have a good feeling for this banner with GAF!
Congrats!
Is that the site with the calculator?
I'm going to disagree. The ranks have a very valid purpose. They do break down it to a mathematical formula. The catch is of course, you're own experiences, input, and needs. It does not take into account a non-idealistic situation.
But it does give valid input into each characters longevity as a unit.
I.E. Ramza is a fine unit and will be a great additional for many months. Just being 6* alone means he'll be useful. In the next 2-3 months, you're looking at another 6 6* units. But it is also to note he's not going to be a top dog like Lightning. Who is largely going to go unmatched for a while. And even when units come out to surpass her, they don't natively.
Lyrian
Member
<--- So jelly.
Really starting to internally debate throwing tickets after Agrias, because I can see Charlotte replacing WoL at the higher tiers of the Colloseum, if I can move Full Break to another unit on the team.
Acerac
Banned
He has Arm Shot and Leg Shot though.
Wired All Wrong
Member
Happy to see there's been a regular set of people streaming this game recently. I used to always check Twitch and nothing would come up. Really enjoy Claich and scrion streams. Seems to be a few other regular streamers as well. There's never a ton of people watching, but it seems there's a good community that is growing. I love watching other people do pulls for some reason. Not sure if there are other people streaming on YouTube though. I should look into that as well.
Lyrian
Member
And therein lies the flaw in the mathematical model used.
Not saying that the model doesn't serve a purpose, because it does. I'd argue that the model is flawed because even though it is seen and used broadly by everyone, that it is designed for the top 0.01% who can constantly run with TMs in every possible slot on every character at all times in an "ideal situation". That's not really a good representation of the FFBE population as a whole. Still, if a player wants to whale at Moby Dick tier (well beyond anyone in this thread), then the model would be representative of expectations.
The point system is fine. The reviews just need to stop completely trashing new units just because they aren't as good as units that will be released several months down the road after them. That's the definition of power creep and necessary to prevent stagnation in a game like this.
At the very minimum, at least not write that the top rated unit in the game is already "weak" because better units are coming down the road.
Oh yeah, I saw your post. Congrats on that awesome pull
, no need to be sorry about anything at all.Other than those two, nope. But still that's way better than what I usually get... I think i'll keep this account, it started off really well after all.
Now I really need to look up some guides.. I don't even know how to transform a 3 star char into a 4 star one... etc. I can finally actually start playing!
what other units do you have buddy?
Thats it, the others are mustadio, a shadow and a clyne, I think they're not very noteworthy?
All from a daily pull + those 5 free tickets you get at the start. Is there some point in the game where you get more free tickets? Because 2 good chars out of 6 tries seems pretty good for this game
One. His rankings do not take into account JPN. That is an issue with the user base of the title. From what I understand, his take into account skills, stats, specialties, etc. I.E., the reason why Ramza is a so-so character is the middling stats across the board. Has a bit of everything, but doesn't excel at anything. Compared to Lightning who excels in Physical damage. Acknowledging he has this fault isn't "shitting" on the character, but rather an analysis of his potential. Bartz is another character with the same issue(Even though I love him). It's why he's behind Art, CoD, Chizzy, Juggler, and a few others. He is better than Juggler and Art down the line, but not now.
The future potential analysis typical comes from the userbase(Us). Since unlike most titles, we know what we're getting and investing into. This is where personal opinion matters more and also luck. You have to work with what you roll. I think it would be shortsighted and stupid not to take that into account. But I also think it is just as faulty is use it as the bible. There is a good balance between the two. For example, Ramza will be a top character for several months. Agrais and Char will also be very good, but will have the eventual fall off. Acknowledging that is typically well researched, but limiting your choices to only 7 months down the line is a mishap. You need to get to through those 7 months on top. And as you said, rather than looking for the white whale, minimal constant upgrades are a better choice than whaling for the one big one.
The ranking and breakdown of the characters aren't the issue, it's how the typical unskilled player base understands them.
Thats it, the others are mustadio, a shadow and a clyne, I think they're not very noteworthy?
All from a daily pull + those 5 free tickets you get at the start. Is there some point in the game where you get more free tickets? Because 2 good chars out of 6 tries seems pretty good for this game
i dont want to discourage you, but you should try to get some more rerolls.
Because you are just starting and getting ramza lvl 100 would take you most ages. For you to start and get to the game good, you must try to get an Agrias... or a Lightning, but light is offbanner.
Agrias is the best full break unit, and full break is one of crucial skills in the game right now. Along with focus and cheer (which both of them you can get with the starter units, but not full break until Rain 6star that will come in 3 months)
Ramza is cute and all, but it is not as useful to you than a Agrias.
You have an advantage. YOU CAN COLLECT ALL THE LAPIS THE GAME CAN OFFER YOU.
I should count:
Quests: 4400 lapis
Explorations: 2000 lapis
Colosseum: 6500 lapis
Thats 12000 lapis, plus 50 levels you go up, thats 5000 more lapis, and daily rewards, gifts, etc, lets put on another 5000 lapis, thats 22.000 lapis, that you should spent on the FFIII banner that should come on november. Thats the batch where you can get all the really good units.
So maximize your reroll now so you can use those units well and not pull and save lapis for FFIII batch.
Lyrian
Member
JPN is not the point here. In a roundabout way, you describe the problem at hand.
This is the Reddit Hivemind Logic at work here. Per the Reddit Hivemind Logic, the only units that can possibly be "good" are the ones that are the most specialized possible in a specific attribute. 95% of the time, the only attribute that matters is raw damage output, with the other 5% being some kind of support buff/debuff that specifically enhances damage output (Cheer/Focus, Full Break, etc).
So... as Ramza is not top physical DPS (not Chiz, nor Lightning), nor top magic DPS (not Kefka nor Exdeath), and has subpar buffs because singing is required (yet strangely is #1 on the support ranking), he has no potential at all? Valentus's post on the previous page says otherwise.
Because that's how I read his last place ranking in the 6* chart coupled with the Shadow-tier jabs in his analysis.
As the rankings have always been, and my criticisms of it since Day 1, the rankings only consider pure specialists in a role and everyone else can GTFO.
shintoki said:
But, that's the issue here. The average player **will** use the unit rankings as a bible. Most of us here on this forum are generally smart enough to avoid this trap. But, the average player will not. Just look at the weekly "Should You Pull" threads on Reddit, which has pretty much already turned into complete gospel by the community.
The ratings are absolutely already looking at units 7 months down the road. The convenient excuse is that later units can simply be assigned a higher rating number, which is fine and dandy. But the text being associated with each unit is quite definitely biased by precognition of what is coming down the road. Lightning wouldn't be "weak" otherwise, when at the current moment that statement is as far away from the truth as possible.
Vaan is really good but I don't know if he's good enough by himself to carry other mediocre rolls. Then again when I started and rerolled I settled with WoL and Tellah and that worked well enough. WoL also has great AoE on top of full break though. Vaan has been amazing for me on the current event and colosseum ADV though.
Whales - you need a FB unit if possible, a decent DPS, and a decent mage or healer. I got by with Shantotto for a mage for quite a while (and she is a common pull). CoD, Bartz, Garland, Firion, ExDeath, and Kefka are all good DPS units that are easy to draw
Harder would be 4* like Chizuru, and 5* like Lightning or Ramza.
Ramza and Kefka is a great start if you have ANYTHING decent backing them up - I would roll with it if you have something serviceable like Vivi or Shantotto as well. Lasswell and Rain are serviceable until you get some additional good units. Also, you will get an additional five summon tickets in very quick order from the game as you progress the first island. Then just spend them on a decent banner.
For example I started with Lightning, Charlotte, Garnet, and Shantotto. Then I pulled Celes quickly after when a decent banner came, and I did the 11-pull today that helped me fill out the team. I did without a FB for a bit, simply because Lightning was such a good DPS to start with.
In addition, there are some good banners coming up you can spend the summon tickets on to help fill out your team. FFXIII will have Lightning, Vanilla, Snow, Hope, Sazh, and Fang. FFIV will have Cecil, Rosa, Rydia will get 5*, as will Kain. FFIII is the big banner coming up as it will have Refia, Arc, and Luneth (all of which are EXCELLENT characters). I personally think Ramza and Kefka is a great start if you have anything else of value.
Harder would be 4* like Chizuru, and 5* like Lightning or Ramza.
Ramza and Kefka is a great start if you have ANYTHING decent backing them up - I would roll with it if you have something serviceable like Vivi or Shantotto as well. Lasswell and Rain are serviceable until you get some additional good units. Also, you will get an additional five summon tickets in very quick order from the game as you progress the first island. Then just spend them on a decent banner.
For example I started with Lightning, Charlotte, Garnet, and Shantotto. Then I pulled Celes quickly after when a decent banner came, and I did the 11-pull today that helped me fill out the team. I did without a FB for a bit, simply because Lightning was such a good DPS to start with.
In addition, there are some good banners coming up you can spend the summon tickets on to help fill out your team. FFXIII will have Lightning, Vanilla, Snow, Hope, Sazh, and Fang. FFIV will have Cecil, Rosa, Rydia will get 5*, as will Kain. FFIII is the big banner coming up as it will have Refia, Arc, and Luneth (all of which are EXCELLENT characters). I personally think Ramza and Kefka is a great start if you have anything else of value.
1. But the initial comment was from that site on unit rankings which do not take into account JPN, on why Ramza was "Weak". Where people were specifically referring to the JPN version in here being the reason.
2. I admit the fallacy in the Reddit logic, but again, not every place Reddit nor can you protect users from reading it. They do have to determine what information is valuable to them. That's not something you can hold against Reddit, if the user is willing to believe. Nor do I think it's fair to compare the Wiki site ratings to the Reddit. Both are entirely different beasts, meant for a different populace. As I said, I feel like it's more several people in here with their fixation on what reddit thinks, rather than playing the game. There have been banners I'm in complete disagreement with their call. Never once affected how I play and I don't particularly think I've been wrong either.
Which is also the point, it's up to the user. I can sit there and tell people how you should use the information, but in the end. It's up to them. Blaming Reddit for it, is like blaming a fortune cookie for lotte numbers. The reader chooses to accept the information. The average player probably will not even look at Reddit and is playing blindly. Reddit is not the average. Nor is Gaf. We've known this for years. We are defined as the hardcore.
And as I said, I do think the Wiki is more fair to Global, which was where the original remark came from.
3. Nor did I say Ramza is "useless" and I think the Wiki is fair is calling him unremarkable. It doesn't mean bad, but in a game that pushes specialization above jack of all trades. It does mean the character is at a disadvantage with it's heavy advantage(outweighting it's current disadvantage) being one of the first 6* characters. You can't penalize someone reviewing the character towards how the game is played. It would be unwise.
And I will say this, it's very easy to already tell where Lightning's weakness is at and where the comments come from about abilities. She has a very diverse skill set, but for a damage dealer. Lacks that powerful something. In terms of single target Damage. Chizzy and CoD would be a better choice thanks to Barrage. Most bosses have been about either chaining or single target. Having a critique about the character does not mean the character is trash. Nor do people blindly riding it, saying it doesn't matter will not invalidate that critique either. There is a balance.
For what it is, I think Reddit has it's balance and I wouldn't change it. It's a site typically meant for the hardcore fan base of the title, just like Gaf. There data should not be representative else wise, this is what the Wiki is for.
To Whales
I personally think you're fine. I started with just a Buttz and over time, accumulated a solid variety. Just pull wisely is all.
Lyrian
Member
Cleared the first trash fight of A-2.
Generally not noteworthy, but I predict there will be many, many tears shed by people the first time they encounter that fight. (Preceded by a "WTF just happened here?")
ADV A-Tier = Time to remember what the retaliation counters are for certain enemies and ensure that you never, ever trigger them if you don't want to suffer a very quick death.
Generally not noteworthy, but I predict there will be many, many tears shed by people the first time they encounter that fight. (Preceded by a "WTF just happened here?")
ADV A-Tier = Time to remember what the retaliation counters are for certain enemies and ensure that you never, ever trigger them if you don't want to suffer a very quick death.
TheChillyAcademic
Member
I love the intelligent discussion please do carry on boys!
zerokoolpsx
Member
Half banner pull, I got Mustadio. I haven't gotten a featured unit in so long.
I don't think Ramza is weak at all. He would be my number two want behind Lightning at this point in time. You can turn him into an excellent mage. A base of 307 isn't Kefka, but it's much better than Golbez, Terra, Tellah, etc. You can turn him into a damage dealer that is better than Garland or Firion as well. And when you get "better" units he is as good of a support unit as your typical FB unit is. And his support will become God-like later on...
It is all about the Gear and the skills each character has...
It is all about how you outfit the character, and how you use them as a team. Yes, on my primary I can brute force everything up to the point I'm at now, but I'm starting to hit a wall.
It is all about the Gear and the skills each character has...
It is all about how you outfit the character, and how you use them as a team. Yes, on my primary I can brute force everything up to the point I'm at now, but I'm starting to hit a wall.
Kungbakpao, but I call him kungpao for short streams. So does this jpn girl. Don't know her name, but their channel is goodgirlsgaming or something like that.
Lightning or bust
Lyrian
Member
Ok, we're kind of heading towards a compromise here. Which is good, because I actually need to be doing academic stuff tonight and not participating in a 10 round melee. (Although the spirited discussion can be quite fun at times.)
1) Fair enough.
2) I agree with you on this. The attention reddit gets is because it's the only really active generaly community for FFBE (or least the "chosen one"). There a few minor ones out there, but generally are not relevant to community on a significant scale.
To that extent, the vocal minority of ultra-hardcore that rule reddit tend to shape the masses, who do not want to think for themselves. Does this affect how I play? Nope. Nor should it to anyone in this forum.
Hell, if I ever posted there about Rydia, I would get publicly lynched, drawn and quartered, and then have my remains paraded for a week or two to demonstrate to the masses how not to play "inefficiently".
-- The wiki rankings were originally quite unfair to Global in the beginning. Only after much unrest from the masses did the rankings become fairer in a concession. But now, with the dawn of 6*s, that disparity seems to have come back into play in full force. The Ramza evaluation is an excellent example of this, as his evaluation should have been made only against Delita and Lightning and no one else for the evaluation to be fair.
3) There's that tunnel vision again. I shouldn't criticize the reviewer because the reviews are based on how the game is meant to be played?
Ugh.... the core of the argument here that we have been going back and forth on is that the reviews are the based entirely on a narrow mindset of the "most efficient" way to play this game according the ultra-whales. That goes all the way back to my original point that the rankings, reviews, and the Reddit Hivemind Logic are based on the sole question of "Is this unit the best at X role in the game?" If yes, it's good. If not, it's shit. There is no middle ground in this type of system. Hence, the review of Ramza equating to shit because it is not the best unit in any given role.
I've been around quite long enough on this planet to know someone is trying to write "complete shit" in a politically correct manner. That said, that's a fault of the specific review itself, and not of the system as a whole.
3a) I sure hope that there is some sort of flaw or weakness with Lightning. Otherwise, how else would anyone else in the future ever surpass her power levels? If there ever is a perfect unit out there, then there will never be a reason to pull for anything else ever again. Once more, this is a fault with the review (of Lightning in this case) and not of the system itself.
Agreed. Anyone can be good enough with the right gear.
Of course, the counter argument to that will always be "why equip a generalist mage to X MAG, when you can take the same gear and equip it to a specialist mage to achieve X+50 MAG? Therefore, the generalist mage should never be used."
To each their own, I suppose. But, in my opinion, wielding such narrow blinders greatly diminishes the scope of the game in general.
I wonder if FFBE will ever implement a system such as the system PAD uses to counter this mentality. In PAD, some enemies/bosses now pre-emptively cast a shield that blocks damage over a certain total. Try to go in and glass cannon/nuke from orbit everything and the player will end up dead every time. Probably just a matter of time.
-- I'm starting to have to get creative to advance further in the Colloseum. I'm at the point where I look at each fight in advance (even for non-boss mobs) and bring in the appropriate resistance buffs to increase the surivability of my team.
Zera_Bloodwinter
Member
How the does someone have Mustadio's TM gun already???? He was just released today! Wtf?!?!?
Lots of pulls, fuse them all and get the gun. It's impossible otherwise, yes.
I agree that for now, Ramza's definitely great.
But because he's a hybrid type, he won't be great for too long. His role is like a Red Mage in a typical ff game. Great at the start, but will be outclassed mid game, as specialists tends to get much better skills and abilities.
Physical DPS:
Currently, Lightning and Delita outclasses Ramza in this department.
Magic:
He can out damage Kefka and Exdeath if geared properly, specially with Dual Cast since he gets native Ultima.
Support:
Buff + Debuff skills, no unit has this combo support yet. Vaan comes close, but on the mage side.
His wiki rating seems fair, top 3 overall. It's just that there's no need to say he's unremarkable. He's a great unit to have, no matter how you look at it.
I have more to say... time for drunken Toki!
Wired All Wrong
Member
I'll have to check out Kongbakpao. I always forget they post/stream pull videos. Pretty sure I've seen a few of those goodgirlsgaming videos. I think I remember seeing her get some pretty lucky pulls before.
TheChillyAcademic
Member
Well ladies and gents here it is, my first 6*!!
Wired All Wrong
Member
Congrats Chilly! Now enjoy the long grind to 100.
Congrats. That was fast Chilly.
TheChillyAcademic
Member
I'm not fuckin around with my first 6*, I don't care if he's just some punk!!
Does Lightning's scarf stack with dual wield? I'm guessing no, or it would be a free sword dance every normal attack (4x). In that case though, is this the first instance where a unit can't benefit from the TM it produces?
Edit: Oops, forgot about the units with equip __ materia. Interestingly, the only other instances I could find are Krile and Rydia who can't even equip their own TM, which feels like a strong early hint at their future 5* forms.
Edit: Oops, forgot about the units with equip __ materia. Interestingly, the only other instances I could find are Krile and Rydia who can't even equip their own TM, which feels like a strong early hint at their future 5* forms.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
You guys should stop telling new players to keep rerolling.
TheChillyAcademic
Member
Congrats, man! I wish I had that kind of luck. Maybe tomorrow.
People keep talking about the FFIII banner. What characters are going to be part of that one?
https://www.reddit.com/r/FFBraveExvius/comments/4dvjm8/411_maintenance_ff3_eventpickuplaby/
Luneth and Refia.
Wow, that was fast.
Nope, Lightning's tm is average.
TheChillyAcademic
Member
Yeah the FFIII banner is full of nothing but GOD tier units lol
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