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FINAL FANTASY Community Thread: XV Mainline Entries and Counting

I dunno guys, I think I'm about to give up on VII and just watch a walkthrough. The gameplay is just not doing it for me. It's too unstrategic and by the numbers by today's standards (I'm sure it was the bees knees in 97) for me to really get into. However, I still do like the OST and find the story charming enough to finish via walkthrough.
 
At the same time, maybe be a little less condescending?

Ha, I meant to say that I personally haven't played FFX since I was 10 years old. I'm not meaning to call people who don't like it 10 year olds. I get the complaints even if I don't totally agree with them.

And FFX's boss theme is awesome! I think it's the most imposing of FF's boss themes.
 
Funny, I'd use that to describe 13 and 13-2 before applying it to 7.

I'm about 12 hours in (had to restart from my 15 hour run) and I've basically thrived on a single strategy: Spam attack or Bolt/Fire/Ice with ocassional healing and I've mopped the floor with everyone. There seems to be little difficulty, I'm not too happy with how Cloud controls in the over world, upgrading Materia is boring as hell (I admit I'm probably doing it wrong, but I've found nothing to tell me how to do it right in game), leveling is as simple and automatic as it gets, and the ATB or whatever it's called system is just not doing it for me. I'm not having a terrible time and find some enjoyment out of it, but I can honestly say that the thought of playing other games has become more appealing to me.
 
Just finished 13-2 (main story) and i ended up so disappointed :/

I feel like it was a really unpolished experience. Beginning was a blast but the random encounters got old pretty fast, the crystarium system was really uninteresting and the skill distribution was just so dumb. They took away Slow, Haste, Faith, Bravery and such and made them exclusive to items and very situational = not useful at all.(The synergist role lost every possible usefulness) No techs or summons, and possibly the worst final boss fight, long, tedious and boring. (Caius' normal fights were a lot more interesting than the
Triad Dragon shit
)

And that doesn't even consider the story and the ending.

I don't know, from what i've read over here consensus is FF13-2 >>> FF13, and i completely disagree. Maybe the first one is a linear mess but it works a lot better and is a lot more varied gameplay wise IMO.

:)C shame on me though, i wanted to like it.)

Any thoughts on the matter? i'm pretty sure it has been discussed a lot, so i don't want to bother if this is repetitive or anything.
 
Just finished 13-2 (main story) and i ended up so disappointed :/

I feel like it was a really unpolished experience. Beginning was a blast but the random encounters got old pretty fast, the crystarium system was really uninteresting and the skill distribution was just so dumb. They took away Slow, Haste, Faith, Bravery and such and made them exclusive to items and very situational = not useful at all.(The synergist role lost every possible usefulness) No techs or summons, and possibly the worst final boss fight, long, tedious and boring. (Caius' normal fights were a lot more interesting than the
Triad Dragon shit
)

And that doesn't even consider the story and the ending.

I don't know, from what i've read over here consensus is FF13-2 >>> FF13, and i completely disagree. Maybe the first one is a linear mess but it works a lot better and is a lot more varied gameplay wise IMO.

:)C shame on me though, i wanted to like it.)

Any thoughts on the matter? i'm pretty sure it has been discussed a lot, so i don't want to bother if this is repetitive or anything.

I agree with basically everything you said. XIII was a much tighter experience with much better story telling (Yeah I had quite a few problems with it, but I can at least appreciate everything it tried to do and some of what it did manage at least semi-competently). XIII-2 nerfed the hell out of every aspect of the battle system sans Ravager/Commando, took out Eidolons, cut back on difficulty, cut enemy HP by 2/3 and Strength/Magic as much as 3/4 and didn't compensate (further nerfing the difficulty), was extremely lacking in polish compared to XIII, had a rather bad framerate, had entirely pointless mechanics ("Live Trigger" has no bearing on the actual narrative save for a few joke endings; Feral Link isn't implemented well and I rarely used it; the monsters in general are extremely unbalanced with only a few being truly worth it; Wound damage almost never was an issue; etc), had cut and pasted beyond hilarity (some areas are reused verbatim and/or as many as 4 times with most areas at least being reused 2 or 3 times), was nearly impossible to not be over leveled due to an easily maxable Crystarium... I could go on. The entire game was just a lopsided f'ing mess. And that doesn't even mention the story.


XIII-2 is the product of listening way too much to focus groups as well as not knowing how to appropriately respond to criticism and feedback.
 
People who like FFXIII usually don't like XIII-2 as much.

People who didn't like XIII usually enjoy XIII-2 more.

While I belong to the latter, they're both incredibly lacking in my opinion, for different reasons.
 
XIII-2 is the product of listening way too much to focus groups as well as not knowing how to appropriately respond to criticism and feedback.

I just don't know if i was overleveled or anything but, having the "aga" spells so early + the "Dragoon" and then the "Golden Chocobo" monster made the game just really easy.

People who like FFXIII usually don't like XIII-2 as much.

People who didn't like XIII usually enjoy XIII-2 more.

While I belong to the latter, they're both incredibly lacking in my opinion, for different reasons.

Yeah, i guess. It had it's moments though, i love the Archylte Steppe setting and atmosphere, at least before you start fucking around with the weather. Visiting Oerba 1000 times, though, was awful. Left me wonder how it was when people lived there, it always seemed so dead and uninteresting for such an important part of Pulse...
 

Voyevoda007

Neo Member
This might seem like a stupid question but i'm kinda confused by the classes and jobs. I plan to become a black mage. I have a Thaumaturge level 30 and a 15 archer. Whats the incentive to roll a black mage? does it not have the same skils as a Thaumaturge? The rotation I seen people use, its stuff that Thaumaturge have anyways,Why should I switch over to a black mage? Hopefully that makes some sense.
 
This might seem like a stupid question but i'm kinda confused by the classes and jobs. I plan to become a black mage. I have a Thaumaturge level 30 and a 15 archer. Whats the incentive to roll a black mage? does it not have the same skils as a Thaumaturge? The rotation I seen people use, its stuff that Thaumaturge have anyways,Why should I switch over to a black mage? Hopefully that makes some sense.

You might want to ask this in the XIV thread.
 

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
Man I think I'm done arguing about that remastered FFX soundtrack or I might lose my sanity.
I think there might be a good reason why a lot of people tell me they stick to their subs now.

Ha, I meant to say that I personally haven't played FFX since I was 10 years old. I'm not meaning to call people who don't like it 10 year olds. I get the complaints even if I don't totally agree with them.

And FFX's boss theme is awesome! I think it's the most imposing of FF's boss themes.
Ahhh, okay. The only time I've played FFX was when I was a teenager, but even then I wasn't completely satisfied with it in a game design sense. Love the art direction, love the ending, like what it tried to do, but was dissatisfied with some of its forays into certain things. Though I guess that might have been for the best considering a lot of people like it, and made it their first FF.

Oh, I meant my friend didn't like the HD Remaster version of Nakano's boss theme. The original Nakano boss theme is good.

Errybody excited about how bad X-2.5 sounds?
It's hilarious because they don't know how to stop.

Kinda sounds like an FF4-2 sort of thing to me considering some of the hints of plot rehashes/subplot dialing back because creativity is something that seems to be rationed over there.

I'm about 12 hours in (had to restart from my 15 hour run) and I've basically thrived on a single strategy: Spam attack or Bolt/Fire/Ice with ocassional healing and I've mopped the floor with everyone. There seems to be little difficulty, I'm not too happy with how Cloud controls in the over world, upgrading Materia is boring as hell (I admit I'm probably doing it wrong, but I've found nothing to tell me how to do it right in game), leveling is as simple and automatic as it gets, and the ATB or whatever it's called system is just not doing it for me. I'm not having a terrible time and find some enjoyment out of it, but I can honestly say that the thought of playing other games has become more appealing to me.
Final Fantasy VII is one of the easier FF games... and honestly, FF games started getting easier starting with FF6 (and FF4 was basically the outlier out of FFs 1-5 despite the fact that you could beat FF1 in a short amount of time). It's no wonder you're finding it easy, because it is one of the easier FFs. But I don't think the thrill of FF7 lies in its early 'kill these mooks' gameplay. The thrill generally seems to lie in its growth, narrative, narrative progression, the illusion of choice, secret characters, plethora of minigames, finding whatever combinations of materia you can to mop the floor quickly but maybe also handicap you (because materia can lower your stats), etc.

I get a lot out of speedrunning it now because the game is certainly built for it, but at least at its fundamental core, the game certainly relies a lot on flexibility and player agency. You can determine how easy or hard it's going to be even if it is a remarkably easy game. I don't use magic anymore. I haven't used summons in FF games in far more than a decade in terms of personal play (obviously I had to use them to show them in that FF4 playthrough I did last year). The game really is built around making the player assess what they want to do with it and works around how the player would like to approach it.

Even if you watch a walkthrough of it, I feel like some bits of it, like the minigames, general atmosphere, illusion of choice, etc, would be missed. It's certainly up to your discretion, but at the same time, I do feel like I should chime in and say that a lot of FFs since 6 are a little easier like that.

I'm not sure where you are in FF7, though. Where are you right now?

I feel like it was a really unpolished experience. Beginning was a blast but the random encounters got old pretty fast, the crystarium system was really uninteresting and the skill distribution was just so dumb. They took away Slow, Haste, Faith, Bravery and such and made them exclusive to items and very situational = not useful at all.(The synergist role lost every possible usefulness) No techs or summons, and possibly the worst final boss fight, long, tedious and boring. (Caius' normal fights were a lot more interesting than the
Triad Dragon shit
)

And that doesn't even consider the story and the ending.

I don't know, from what i've read over here consensus is FF13-2 >>> FF13, and i completely disagree. Maybe the first one is a linear mess but it works a lot better and is a lot more varied gameplay wise IMO.

:)C shame on me though, i wanted to like it.)

Any thoughts on the matter? i'm pretty sure it has been discussed a lot, so i don't want to bother if this is repetitive or anything.
Nope. I feel the same way, and I had pointed out how the classes were completely nerfed even when people who were playing the Japanese version were in the middle of it (and they confirmed my suspicions of the game being markedly easier than the previous game with the nerfed classes). Reading the Japanese wikis, I had to ask myself why they even bothered to diminish some of the classes' roles when the XIII games' CSB actually made passives/debuffs/buffs and tanking matter for once. I don't like CSB as much, but I can sure as hell say that despite that in-game/within scenario the team didn't feel like a 'team', CSB made everyone work like a team by implementing the fact that every single class mattered.

I played the game with no monsters outside of one or two occasions on my first and only playthrough, and that shouldn't really be possible if the game were balanced and designed well. The Enhancer role ended up being insignificant, the Jammer role ended up being better than it should have been. Though with that said, it's good that they eliminated Haste as a spell at will cast by either of the two main characters because that would have completely and utterly broken the game even more than it is. I always said that CSB shone whenever the difficulty of the game increased, and CSB battles were more fun when the enemies threw curveballs at you or whenever everything was harder, and that's absolutely true.

That's why I typically say that the DLC is better than the full game. The DLC encourages you to make monster builds specifically tailored to those DLC fight conditions instead of being able to use whatever you wanted interchangeably as you could in the full game. This was where you had to pay attention to what skills you gave to your monsters, passive or active, to save your ass hard in the DLC battles. Especially against people like Gilgamesh. Even if they were gimmick battles, they couldn't really be approached that lightly.

I didn't like FFXIII... I still don't like it all that much and that's just my personal taste. But it's just amazing that when I finished FFXIII-2, I'd appreciated FFXIII much more, even moreso than when I'd platinumed it (because, like, the postgame hunts in FFXIII allowed the combat/class actives/passives to have some depth--had a ton of fun figuring that stuff out and even helping other GAF members out with a lot of that stuff too).

With that said, though, FFXIII and FFXIII-2 make good sister games. They're both average to me, but one has what the other doesn't. They both seem to suffer from the same design philosophy (do something that will try to please a wider audience/everyone because that's what they seem to want), but they aren't entirely without their merits.
 
Final Fantasy VII is one of the easier FF games... and honestly, FF games started getting easier starting with FF6 (and FF4 was basically the outlier out of FFs 1-5 despite the fact that you could beat FF1 in a short amount of time). It's no wonder you're finding it easy, because it is one of the easier FFs. But I don't think the thrill of FF7 lies in its early 'kill these mooks' gameplay. The thrill generally seems to lie in its growth, narrative, narrative progression, the illusion of choice, secret characters, plethora of minigames, finding whatever combinations of materia you can to mop the floor quickly but maybe also handicap you (because materia can lower your stats), etc.

I get a lot out of speedrunning it now because the game is certainly built for it, but at least at its fundamental core, the game certainly relies a lot on flexibility and player agency. You can determine how easy or hard it's going to be even if it is a remarkably easy game. I don't use magic anymore. I haven't used summons in FF games in far more than a decade in terms of personal play (obviously I had to use them to show them in that FF4 playthrough I did last year). The game really is built around making the player assess what they want to do with it and works around how the player would like to approach it.


I'll try approaching it from that perspective, then. Thanks.


Even if you watch a walkthrough of it, I feel like some bits of it, like the minigames, general atmosphere, illusion of choice, etc, would be missed. It's certainly up to your discretion, but at the same time, I do feel like I should chime in and say that a lot of FFs since 6 are a little easier like that.

I'm not sure where you are in FF7, though. Where are you right now?


I'm currently dealing with Yuffie. I'll stick it out until after the Golden Saucer and will try some of those handicaps that you mentioned. Maybe that will spice up the game and maybe the minigames will help a bit.



With that said, though, FFXIII and FFXIII-2 make good sister games. They're both average to me, but one has what the other doesn't. They both seem to suffer from the same design philosophy (do something that will try to please a wider audience/everyone because that's what they seem to want), but they aren't entirely without their merits.

Sister games... XIII (Lightning) and XIII-2 (Serah). Each has what the other doesn't. Toriyama is genius.



I'll go sit in the corner now.
 

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
you sit in that corner
WH8lfJf.gif


i didn't even think of that.

shit.

2G1e6It.gif


I'm currently dealing with Yuffie. I'll stick it out until after the Golden Saucer and will try some of those handicaps that you mentioned. Maybe that will spice up the game and maybe the minigames will help a bit.
Actively handicapping yourself might not be your preference, but if it feels like it helps, you could go for it. Bear in mind that the Enemy Skill Materia could break the game for you, but at the same time, it's fun to get everything.

I feel like my favourite part of the game is Midgar, and I've noticed people say they don't like that bit of the game very much. But I feel like the bit between when you get out of Midgar to the Gold Saucer can be a bit of a lull in terms of narrative and difficulty. Try to stick it out by Nibelheim (well, Mt. Nibel's boss and the Shinra Manor secret boss, tbh) and if you still don't really like it, it's up to you as to what to do.
 

Heropon

Member
I've returned from my little holidays, so merry belated Christmas.

That part of FF7 is the worst in terms of difficulty/materia options so I hope Crimson can endure it. Did you get the Elemental materia and Choco/Mog by any chance? They make the early game a bit less dull if only because they give more options.

After completing Bravely Default, I decided to give a chance to Grandia because for some reason I hadn't completed it yet (I stopped at the intro :( ). I can't believe how I could skip that game until now but it feels nice rediscovering gaming gems like it in these days.
 

Heropon

Member
Yeah, I'm enjoying it a lot even when the AI decides that other characters will let you pass if you ask nicely by running into them. I'm in (Disc 2 spoilers?)
a mountain range after crashing down from Alent.
I've learned almost all the magic with Justin and Feena except for something that needs ridiculous elemental levels so I suppose I'm near the end.
 
Yeah, I'm enjoying it a lot even when the AI decides that other characters will let you pass if you ask nicely by running into them. I'm in (Disc 2 spoilers?)
a mountain range after crashing down from Alent.
I've learned almost all the magic with Justin and Feena except for something that needs ridiculous elemental levels so I suppose I'm near the end.

Getting there but you have time. Be sure to do the secret dungeons! The rewards can make Justin into a one man army, it's comical.
 

Heropon

Member
Getting there but you have time. Be sure to do the secret dungeons! The rewards can make Justin into a one man army, it's comical.

I found two and I did them as soon as I could. The boss in the cave/ruin was pretty tough but Diggin' saved the day even if it had a dispelling move. The rewards were crazy for that point in the game and now Justin destroys bosses as you say.
 

Heropon

Member
PIckiest.

Glutton.

Ever.

Yoshi and Kirby swallow that stuff without a second thought.

But just because she doesn't have a black hole in her/his/its stomach doesn't make he/she/it picky. Can you imagine a Snorlax eating a demon? Quina does it everyday.
 

CorvoSol

Member
But just because she doesn't have a black hole in her/his/its stomach doesn't make he/she/it picky. Can you imagine a Snorlax eating a demon? Quina does it everyday.

Quina never does it. She sits their with her fork and bitches and Zidane for not lowering the HP enough. Zidane promises to do so and then spends 20 years waiting for his turn while the enemies score triple word scores per second.

FF9 is my favorite PSX FF in terms of presentation and plot, but I honestly feel it is the worst of the three games. Being worst of the golden age is hardly bad, mind you, but I think playing that game when I had just spent 2 years nonstop playing FF was bad for my opinion of it.
 

Wazzy

Banned
This X stuff is getting worse and worse. This novel or rather 2.5 sounds really weird and I don't like the direction the story is taking.

Why they couldn't just end the game at X-2 is beyond me. At this point, I'm glad VIII and IX have been lucky enough to be left untouched.
 

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
Because of the Al-ighty 'ollar.

Heropon, what did you think of BD when you finished it? I'm still in the middle of it, but I'm flying through it. I think they made the localization better than some of the Japanese dialogue.
 

MagiusNecros

Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
This X stuff is getting worse and worse. This novel or rather 2.5 sounds really weird and I don't like the direction the story is taking.

Why they couldn't just end the game at X-2 is beyond me. At this point, I'm glad VIII and IX have been lucky enough to be left untouched.

Because they utterly rely on the past success of FF and will now reuse the characters that were once successful and use them in wonderful new ways?

That seems to be the reason so far.
 
So much negativity its depressing. People should be happy knowing that Toriyama will be working on X-3 instead of XVI!

And you can just pretend it doesn't exist if/when it turns out to be terrible. Just like there are only two Terminator movies.
 

Heropon

Member
Heropon, what did you think of BD when you finished it? I'm still in the middle of it, but I'm flying through it. I think they made the localization better than some of the Japanese dialogue.

When I finished it I was a bit burned by certain design decisions, I thought I was going to like them more but they definitely dragged the game down for me.

At that time I also became extremely picky with the battle/growth system and started seeing things I didn't like too much like how the job level affected the battle performance. It didn't matter at the start of the game too much because the job levels were low but when I started mastering jobs it was really apparent. For example I switched a character between two jobs with similar intelligence and he started doing horrible magic damage. The worst thing about this is that the game is basically telling you to grind and you can't simply change to a new job when you want to try new strategies before a boss.

About the localization, I liked it even if there was a funny mistake in the Spanish version. Clue: It had to do with the name of a monster called Orthros.

In general my impressions are positive, the first half of the game was almost perfect, and the few things I disliked are easily fixable so I'm excited for the next entry in the series if it comes here.
 

CorvoSol

Member
I hope you guys aren't bothering with those FFXHD threads in Gaming side.

And Corvo, stop being so harsh about IX!

I will stop harshing on IX the minute Beef stops harshing on VI and not a moment sooner.

So much negativity its depressing. People should be happy knowing that Toriyama will be working on X-3 instead of XVI!

And you can just pretend it doesn't exist if/when it turns out to be terrible. Just like there are only two Terminator movies.

Why would I be happy that Toriyama still has a job?
 

MagiusNecros

Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
So much negativity its depressing. People should be happy knowing that Toriyama will be working on X-3 instead of XVI!

I'd be more happy if Square simply made new games. I like those. But if most of the talent that made SE games what they were have long departed what have they really become other then an empty shell?
 

Wazzy

Banned
Yeah I know it's money but it still just seems weird to mess with a game this much.

I think it's the novel that's really rubbed me the wrong way since the impressions sound bad.

I don't even have a problem with them coming back to older games. It's the fact they add so much convoluted garbage to the series that just makes you wish they would move on and create a new game.
I will fight you to the death on this...well if I disliked you. As for now, we will agree to disagree.
There's nothing to fight since he's completely right.
 

Noi

Member
I think the remaining people at SE have been steaming in their own FF vapors for a bit too long. I don't think I'm alone in thinking that I wouldn't mind if every FF game going forward looked like Drakengard 3 as long as it was fun, quirky and got released in like 1/8 of the time its taken for Versus/XV to come out. Hell, D3 had a better and more interesting female lead than Lightning in any of her incarnations.

I'd be more happy if Square simply made new games, didn't take 5+ years to release their bigger games and bothered to localize more than one of their non-FF games a year.

Fixed for accuracy.
 
I think the remaining people at SE have been steaming in their own FF vapors for a bit too long. I don't think I'm alone in thinking that I wouldn't mind if every FF game going forward looked like Drakengard 3 as long as it was fun, quirky and got released in like 1/8 of the time its taken for Versus/XV to come out. Hell, D3 had a better and more interesting female lead than Lightning in any of her incarnations.



Fixed for accuracy.
But every new FF has to have super realistic CGI-like graphics because reasons.

Of course I'd say that say that the insane emphasis on graphics and the associated coats are destroying the industry, but that's a discussion for another thread.
 

Vade

Member
But every new FF has to have super realistic CGI-like graphics because reasons.

Of course I'd say that say that the insane emphasis on graphics and the associated coats are destroying the industry, but that's a discussion for another thread.

To play Devil's advocate; Final Fantasy has nearly always been associated with technology pushing graphics, look at the sprite work in FF VI to FFIX to FXII. The stories mix between great, average, and forgettable; and the combat/gameplay generally improves without risks being taken, exceptions FFXII FF II.

I would rather they return to few games ,but the utmost time put into new engines, cgi and air brushing while trying to improve the gameplay. At this point stories cannot drop anymore in quality.
 
To play Devil's advocate; Final Fantasy has nearly always been associated with technology pushing graphics, look at the sprite work in FF VI to FFIX to FXII. The stories mix between great, average, and forgettable; and the combat/gameplay generally improves without risks being taken, exceptions FFXII FF II.

I would rather they return to few games ,but the utmost time put into new engines, cgi and air brushing while trying to improve the gameplay. At this point stories cannot drop anymore in quality.

It can. It can become MGS 4.
I'm gonna be murdered for this.
 
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