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[Wazzy]

.

Honestly, I don't like targeting banned members but Esura made a lot of fucked up comments that bordered on pedophilia.

The guy had no problem with rape games and was just a weird perv all around. Really skeeved the hell out of me.

Let's go back to talking about how awesome VIII is, okay guys? plz

I like this idea. I like it a lot.

 

[CrimsonCrescendo]

Honestly, I don't like targeting banned members but Esura made a lot of fucked up comments that bordered on pedophilia.

The guy had no problem with rape games and was just a weird perv all around. Really skeeved the hell out of me.

Yeah, I know. I didn't like the guy much either because of those comments.



Yeah, let's get back to... ff viii which I'm gonna boot up after I'm done with FF VII (I'm gonna stick with it. 20 hours in already, so might as well).

 

[CorvoSol]

But that's Perfo's avatar.

Isn't Esura the one with that Neptunia girl?

I think that's Perfo.

That one is Perfo

Well shit. I secretly hope Perfo is banned so they don't realize I accidentally confused the two of them, hahaha.

 

[Wazzy]

I need to do my annual Final Fantasy VIII playthrough.

Is anyone good at making graphics?

wtf?

You can look up his post history. I think we're moving on from this discussion so I can't and won't post it.

 

[papercamm]

But that's Perfo's avatar.

Isn't Esura the one with that Neptunia girl?

It looked like Lightning I think when I saw him in that poetry thread.

 

[tiggerkiddo]

The urge to replay VIII has not died down in the past few days...may end up dragging my CRT out to play some. It looks kinda bad on my HDTV sadly.

 

[PRjumpman124]

I actually haven't watched Advent Children Complete. Is it significantly different?

 

[Noi]

I actually haven't watched Advent Children Complete. Is it significantly different?

It has 200% more Zack, therefore its better.

 

[tiggerkiddo]

In the Complete version, Sephiroth doesn't take Omnislash like a chump and fights off Cloud's first attempt at using it.

 

[CorvoSol]

I actually haven't watched Advent Children Complete. Is it significantly different?

Plot flows better is all.

 

[Wazzy]

I vastly prefer Zacks short hair to his long. I do like the scar, though.

 

[Makoto Yuki]

Rather than playing FFXIII-2, I've wanted to go back to FFVIII as others have been wanting. I bested Ozma, Emerald and Ruby, but never Omega. I hated playing the organ or whatever silly ritual to make him appear. So FFVIII it is, gonna break the game as thoroughly as possible with the intent of beating Omega.

Then maybe revisit VII. I finished IX again not too long ago, so no need to see IX again.

I actually haven't watched Advent Children Complete. Is it significantly different?

Not really, I remember it looking nicer. A couple new scenes here and there. The Cloud Vs Sephiroth fight went on for longer if I'm not mistaken, also a bloodier Cloud.

I vastly prefer Zacks short hair to his long. I do like the scar, though.

Squall's scar is cooler. Iv'e always wanted one like his when I was an angsty teenager.

 

[Makoto Yuki]

Edit: Might as well use this post

I was reading that you can have infinite Holy Wars, and almost any other card refinable item, in FFVIII by

1. Defeating the Card Club in Balamb (Disks one)
2. Finding them in the future (Disk four)
3. Refine Gilgamesh card for 10 Holy war.
4. Challenge the people from the CC on the Ragnarok. One of them will eventually use Gilgamesh Card
5. Win Gilgamesh, refine card again.
6. Repeat steps 4 and 5 till you have as many Holy Wars or whatever Item you want.

Has anyone done this before?

 

[Wazzy]

Squall's scar is cooler. Iv'e always wanted one like his when I was an angsty teenager.

I agree. Both Squall and Seifer's scars are cooler.

Videogame scars are much hotter than real life ones. :lol

 

[CorvoSol]

I agree. Both Squall and Seifer's scars are cooler.

Videogame scars are much hotter than real life ones. :lol

Nothing about Seifer is cool.

NOTHING.

Seifer's whole life was "How to not be cool 101"

 

[tiggerkiddo]

Seifer had the best scar imo. Plus he looked awesome and his attitude was perfect for his look. Shame Disc 4 didn't expand on his redemption...shaaaaame.

#$&$%$! that fourth disc.

I also would have liked Quitis more if she remained the cool, calm and level headed person.

 

[Wazzy]

Nothing about Seifer is cool.

NOTHING.

Seifer's whole life was "How to not be cool 101"

Dems fighting words.

Seriously, what's not to like about Seifer's appearance? he's sexy as fuck. He oozes cool from his looks.

We are completely ignoring personality right now.

Seifer had the best scar imo. Plus he looked awesome and his attitude was perfect for his look. Shame Disc 4 didn't expand on his redemption...shaaaaame.

#$&$%$! that fourth disc.

I also would have liked Quitis more if she remained the cool, calm and level headed person.

Nah, I prefer a flawed character. What Quistis needed was a better arc.

 

[CorvoSol]

Dems fighting words.

Seriously, what's not to like about Seifer's appearance? he's sexy as fuck. He oozes cool from his looks.

We are completely ignoring personality right now.

His douchey face? Seifer only has teeth so you can want to punch them out, and lips so he can make that same greasy smirk.

The worst though is the way Nomura went on to recycle Seifer's Kingdom Hearts costume TWICE.

 

[tiggerkiddo]

No Corvo, no. Fine me and Wazzy can be part of the Seifer fan club.

And I agree Quitis needed a much better character arc.

 

[Professor Beef]

Seifer was always cool. Dude had his own posse and everything. If he weren't such a hot-head, he'd be running shit in Balamb Garden and beyond.

 

[Wazzy]

His douchey face? Seifer only has teeth so you can want to punch them out, and lips so he can make that same greasy smirk.

The worst though is the way Nomura went on to recycle Seifer's Kingdom Hearts costume TWICE.

Naw NAW

You literally have to attack so many character designs if you hate Seifers. Do you hate Rufus? Do you hate Gabranth?

Boy u best sit down.

No Corvo, no. Fine me and Wazzy can be part of the Seifer fan club.

And I agree Quitis needed a much better character arc.

Seifer was always cool. Dude had his own posse and everything. If he weren't such a hot-head, he'd be running shit in Balamb Garden and beyond.

<3333 flawless taste you two.

 

[Makoto Yuki]

#$&$%$! that fourth disc.

Yup, I agree. Fourth disk was wasted potential.

I don't like Siefer either. Especially in Kingdom Hearts II where he would say dumb shit like "It's this Romantic!" while attacking. Also, why was he like 13, and Squall was like 20 in KH2. More reason to not like him I say.

 

[Wazzy]

Yup, I agree. Fourth disk was wasted potential.

I don't like Siefer either. Especially in Kingdom Hearts II where he would say dumb shit like "It's this Romantic!" while attacking. Also, why was he like 13, and Squall was like 20 in KH2. More reason to not like him I say.

I love Seifer but was disappointed he was a kid in KH II. I'm assuming it was meant to represent his character in the sense he starts off like a cocky obnoxious kid but ends up maturing to help out.

Either way, he should have been older and fuck that midrift. Everything else is cool.

 

[Makoto Yuki]

I love Seifer but was disappointed he was a kid in KH II. I'm assuming it was meant to represent his character in the sense he starts off like a cocky obnoxious kid but ends up maturing to help out.

Either way, he should have been older and fuck that midrift. Everything else is cool.

I don't remember him maturing in KH2, I just remember kicking his ass as Roxas then him handing over the trophy to Sora.

Yeah that midrift was lame, haha.

 

[tiggerkiddo]

Seifer was such a disappointment in KH2. He was really forgettable there.

 

[CorvoSol]

Naw NAW

You literally have to attack so many character designs if you hate Seifers. Do you hate Rufus? Do you hate Gabranth?

Boy u best sit down.




<3333 flawless taste you two.

Rufus is in a suit. He's not running around in a douchecoat like some LARPer gone wild. Put a fedora on Seifer's head and he's a brony.

 

[PK Gaming]

How can you guys like Seifer?

He's probably the most disappointing "main rival" in all of RPGs. The intro ostensibly sets him up as this great rival that Squall's gotta overcome, but the game forgets him by the 3rd disc. Which is a damn shame too, because up until then, he was a pretty great rival. I really enjoyed the torture scene, because the game makes it clear that he's unrepentant sociopath.

Around the 3rd disk, he goes MIA, shows up as Ultimecia's dog, and puts up the most pathetic boss battle ever. (Though in fairness, the way he takes down Odin is really fucking cool. I have like, 0 respect for Odin after that boss battle) Where's my penultimate Seifer battle? HUH?!?

As a person who really, really, really enjoys a good rivalry, Seifer was incredibly disappointing for me.

EDIT: Oh and he didn't make it into Dissidia. FEH

 

[Makoto Yuki]

How can you guys like Seifer?

He's probably the most disappointing "main rival" in all of RPGs. The intro ostensibly sets him up as this great rival that Squall, but the game forgets him by the 3rd disc. Which is a damn shame too, because up until then, he's a pretty great rival. I really enjoyed the torture scene, because the game makes it clear that he's unrepentant sociopath.

Around the 3rd disk, he goes MIA, shows up as Ultimecia's dog, and puts up the most pathetic boss battle ever. (Though in fairness, the way he takes down Odin is really fucking cool. I have like, 0 respect for Odin after that boss battle) Where's my penultimate Seifer battle? HUH?!?

As a person who really, really, really enjoys a good rivalry, Seifer was incredibly disappointing for me.

EDIT: Oh and he didn't make it into Dissidia. FEH

To Seifer's defense, I would not call him an unrepentant sociopath. The guy was just really devoted to the sorceress. Probably the only redeeming thing about him was his devotion, I can respect a man for that, even if I don't like him much.

 

[tiggerkiddo]

That was poor writing as for why he goes missing and then turns up as Ultemecia's lackey.

 

[PK Gaming]

Oh that's another thing.

I didn't like his inconsistent characterization. Some of the things he does (cheating and almost killing squall during their training session, torturing squall, aiding Ultimecia, being a general dickbag) are definitely sociopathic, and that's great. (I think even his friends ditch him at the end for being super awful)

But then at the last second, the game tries to sell us this notion that he "really isn't a bad guy after all."

Fuck that noise ._.

 

[Wazzy]

I don't remember him maturing in KH2, I just remember kicking his ass as Roxas then him handing over the trophy to Sora.

Yeah that midrift was lame, haha.

I haven't played in a while but he ends up helping Roxas IIRC.

Rufus is in a suit. He's not running around in a douchecoat like some LARPer gone wild. Put a fedora on Seifer's head and he's a brony.

Dude, Rufus is wearing a trenchcoat too. :lol

Oh that's another thing.

I didn't like his inconsistent characterization. Some of the things he does (cheating and almost killing squall during their training session, torturing squall, aiding Ultimecia, being a general dickbag) are definitely sociopathic, and that's great. (I think even his friends ditch him at the end for being super awful)

But then at the last second, the game tries to sell us this notion that he "really isn't a bad guy after all."

Fuck that noise ._.

Hm? The only part that was bad was him cheating at the beginning in him and Squall's fight and they both end up scarring each other anyway.

Everything else is the product of him being manipulated to the point of doing evil shit from his insecurites. Like, he's aiding Ultimecia partially because of her fake promises and the other from being mind controlled. She knew he would be the easiest to manipulate hence her picking him to defend her.

By the end you just feel sorry for him since he's so desperate to belong somewhere he keeps fighting Ultimecia's cause. He's completely fucked up by the end.

MY problem is that they never end up completing his arc. They just...drop it.

 

[tiggerkiddo]

The tragedy of that fourth disc.

 

[Makoto Yuki]

Seifer really wasn't a bad guy. The dude just had these romantic ideas of being a Sorceress' Knight from a movie he loved as a kid. Ultimecia used this to her advantage, allowing her to influence him to do such evil stuff. He wasn't helping Ultimecia because he was a bad guy. He was helping her out to live out his dreams. She just twisted his dreams into something ugly.

 

[PK Gaming]

I haven't played in a while but he ends up helping Roxas IIRC.

Dude, Rufus is wearing a trenchcoat too. :lol


Hm? The only part that was bad was him cheating at the beginning in him and Squall's fight and they both end up scarring each other anyway.

Everything else is the product of him being manipulated to the point of doing evil shit from his insecurites. Like, he's aiding Ultimecia partially because of her fake promises and the other from being mind controlled. She knew he would be the easiest to manipulate hence her picking him to defend her.

By the end you just feel sorry for him since he's so desperate to belong somewhere he keeps fighting Ultimecia's cause. He's completely fucked up by the end.

MY problem is that they never end up completing his arc. They just...drop it.

I dunno, it's been a while but i'm pretty sure he tortured Squall on his own volition. Like he was working with the sorceress but he wasn't mind controlled. But if I am wrong, that doesn't change the fact that he was a milquetoast villain, mind controlled or not. And as a rival, he sucked even harder.

 

[Makoto Yuki]

Naw, he was the perfect rival for Squall, primarily for how well he mirrors him. Long white coat vs black jacket. Cocky loud mouth vs silent and stoic. One handed fighting style vs two handed fighting style.

 

[PK Gaming]

Conceptually? Sure

In practice... eh

 

[Makoto Yuki]

Eh, he was a fine rival.

Then again my definition of a good rival are these two points.
1. Said rival is a jerk who is constantly trying best the main character
2. You want to put him in his place, often by beating him up in some kind of boss fight.

Seifer was that antagonistic jerk to Squall. I happily kicked his ass in all those boss battles. So by my definition he was a fine rival.

Other great rival examples: Rival from Pokemon Red/Blue/Yellow. Guy was a jerk too, always trying to be the better trainer. You kicked his ass in Pokemon battles every time. If anything Rival from Pokemon is the most sinister of rivals since he lets you choose first, only to pick the Pokemon that yours is weakened to. What a jerk.

 

[PK Gaming]

Now the rival from PKMN RBY is a great rival

He's a consistent opponent that you fight throughout the game (he doesn't just disappear off the face of the earth...) and he shows up at the worst times. Oh and he's also the freaking champion, how do you like them apples?

 

[Kuja9001]

Seifer really wasn't a bad guy. The dude just had these romantic ideas of being a Sorceress' Knight from a movie he loved as a kid. Ultimecia used this to her advantage, allowing her to influence him to do such evil stuff. He wasn't helping Ultimecia because he was a bad guy. He was helping her out to live out his dreams. She just twisted his dreams into something ugly.

Funfact- He got his fighting stance from that film which Laguna performed.

 

[hipsterpants]

Even if he was being manipulated, he did do some totally dickbag stuff and played a huge role in helping Ultimecia achieve her goal. But all that happens is you beat him in a fight and he's all sad and stuff before he reappears in the ending credits and he's all good.

I think ff8 writers got to that point and just said fuck it, too much effort to wrap that up.

 

[Makoto Yuki]

Now the rival from PKMN RBY is a great rival

He's a consistent opponent that you fight throughout the game (he doesn't just disappear off the face of the earth...) and he shows up at the worst times. Oh and he's also the freaking champion, how do you like them apples?

Gonna have to agree to disagree, because I think both fulfill the criteria perfectly. So in my book, both are great rivals.

Seifer was an orphan during the Sorceress wars so I would imagine life was hard on him growing up. He was a bully to the other kids, probably because he did not know how to express his anger properly. There is character depth to Seifer, from his troubled youth, his obsession of being the knights Sorceress, and his extreme devotion to her. It's this same obsession that turns out to be his flaw and undoing. It's actually very tragic. He is orphaned by a war caused by the sorceress yet he Idolizes Laguna's movie where he is the sorceresses' Knight. You kinda feel bad for him in the end.

Sure he was gone for a large majority of the end game, but by the 4th disk you are rushed into finishing Ultemicia. Really the fourth disk did not do Seifer any favors, but I'm not holding that against him. Seeing him smile at the end fishing with his buddies was kinda nice if you think about it. Since the guy has been shafted his whole life, It's kinda nice to see him be a little happy.

Also Rival from Pokemon my have been the champion, but you still beat him, and then he gets scolded by his grand dad. Lame. Pokemon Rival was just a spoiled jerk.

 

[PK Gaming]

Even if he was being manipulated, he did do some totally dickbag stuff and played a huge role in helping Ultimecia achieve her goal. But all that happens is you beat him in a fight and he's all sad and stuff before he reappears in the ending credits and he's all good.

I think ff8 writers got to that point and just said fuck it, too much effort to wrap that up.

Man, how great would it have been if they went all the way with his character? Like Seifer ends up showing up after (or before?) the final boss to give Squall one last "fuck you" and you have to fight him in one last duel, ala the opening.

Gonna have to agree to disagree, because I think both fulfill the criteria perfectly. So in my book, both are great rivals.

Seifer was an orphan during the Sorceress wars so I would imagine life was hard on him growing up. He was a bully to the other kids, probably because he did not know how to express his anger properly. There is character depth to Seifer, from his troubled youth, his obsession of being the knights Sorceress, and his extreme devotion to her. It's this same obsession that turns out to be his flaw and undoing. It's actually very tragic. He is orphaned by a war caused by the sorceress yet he Idolizes Laguna's movie where he is the sorceresses' Knight. You kinda feel bad for him in the end.

Sure he was gone for a large majority of the end game, but by the 4th disk you are rushed into finishing Ultemicia. Really the fourth disk did not do Seifer any favors, but I'm not holding that against him. Seeing him smile at the end fishing with his buddies was kinda nice if you think about it. Since the guy has been shafted his whole life, It's kinda nice to see him be a little happy.

Also Rival from Pokemon my have been the champion, but you still beat him, and then he gets scolded by his grand dad. Lame. Pokemon Rival was just a spoiled jerk.

I know "why" Seifer does the things he does, i'm just not satisfied with the outcome of his character. Overall, I think he's just disappointing, not just as a character, but as a rival. Oh and I completely disagree with your assertion on that last point; Seifer did not deserve a happy ending.

There's really no point on comparing Seifer to the RBY rival. I mean the rival from RBY is a fairly simplistic character, but he's so great in execution.

 

[Makoto Yuki]

Man, how great would it have been if they went all the way with his character? Like Seifer ends up showing up after (or before?) the final boss to give Squall one last "fuck you" and you have to fight him in one last duel, ala the opening.

I know "why" Seifer does the things he does, i'm just not satisfied with the outcome of his character. Oh and I completely disagree with you on that last point; Seifer did not deserve a happy ending.

I mean the rival from blue is a fairly simplistic character, but he's so great in execution.

Alright, I can understand not being satisfied with his character outcome. That's perfectly fine, in fact I agree. Regardless of that, I still think he is a perfectly fine rival even if the final outcome of his character was not satisfying. As many have said, nobody was happy with how the 4th disk just rushed to the end without showing Seifer again.

Also, I never said he deserved a happy ending. I just said It's nice to see him smile after having such a crummy life. It's not so much a happy ending for Seifer anyways, it's really just him finally letting go of his crazy dreams.

Seeing him smile at the end fishing with his buddies was kinda nice if you think about it. Since the guy has been shafted his whole life, It's kinda nice to see him be a little happy.

 

[Seda]

I don't really have a strong opinion on Seifer, he was just kind of there. Had a silly simplistic motivation, kind of pathetic actually. I can't say he was only a nuisance because

Spoiler

Killing Odin

was certainly at least a little threatening.

 

[Makoto Yuki]

I liked

Spoiler

Odin

more than

Spoiler

Gilgamesh

, since he would never used

Spoiler

Excalipoor

.

 

[Wazzy]

I dunno, it's been a while but i'm pretty sure he tortured Squall on his own volition. Like he was working with the sorceress but he wasn't mind controlled. But if I am wrong, that doesn't change the fact that he was a milquetoast villain, mind controlled or not. And as a rival, he sucked even harder.

It's both. He's partially mind controlled and is being egged on by Ultimecia telling him there's secrets being kept from him in SeeD because he never made it in. He get's the information for her but a large part if because of her influence combined with his insecurity.

Man, how great would it have been if they went all the way with his character? Like Seifer ends up showing up after (or before?) the final boss to give Squall one last "fuck you" and you have to fight him in one last duel, ala the opening.

This completely defeats the purpose of his character. While Square totally dropped the ball with his arc, the point of his character was always to have him overcome his insecurities and accept his responsibilities from the damage he had caused all because he wanted to be famous and accepted. What should have happened is him joining Squall and co. to finish Ultimecia off, thus him coming full circle from a good but attention seeker, to mindcontrolled asshole and finishing with him growing up and fighting off Ultimecia.

 

[Zantetsuken88]

Look what came in the post for me today!

FFVIII Tshirt from Teefury. Love it!

 

[Voror]

Thanks.

And yeah, it's extremely frustrating. There would still be a myriad of problems with The Lightning Saga's story, but having the info from the novellas in the actual narrative would be a big start. If nothing else, it would significantly deepen the cast.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK6TXMsvgQg

That song pretty much sums up development on XIII.

From 2004 (it started out on the PS2) to 2008, due to horrible communication, squabbling between teams, inability to agree on the finalized specs of the Crystal Tools engine, and Toriyama's inability to lead his team... nothing really productive was done. Artists were creating assets to areas that had already been cut from the story; assets were being created that ended up not being compatible with the finalized engine; by mid 2008, 4 years into development, they still didn't have a finalized battle system; Toriyama had Wantanabe (and Toriyama himself rewrote scenes) rewriting scenes as many as a dozen times during production, which made it absolute hell for the cutscene and localization team since the localization team would finally finish something only to be told "No, we ended up cutting that" or "no, that's no longer how the scene goes" and the lip syncers and cutscene animators would have to redo the scene... basically, it was a gong show.

The only reason they ended up finalizing the battle system when they did in 2008 was because someone forced the issue and said "you have to ship a demo on the Advent Children DVD". Had it not been for that, they might have run around for another few month.

The last year, year and a half was spent trying to cobble a game together to ship. XIII was always gonna be linear (due to Kitase's "Interactive Movie RPG" idea), but at the last moment they had to cut entire sections of the game because they just couldn't finalize them in time (Lightning's house; the entire area of Bodhum; a park in Nautilus; Team Nora's secret base; dozens of branching paths, while they wouldn't go anywhere, would have at least given you something to do; a whole extra level on Tajeans Tower, etc). Again, don't get me wrong: The game was always gonna be super linear. But we would have at least had a bit more to do.

You're right, it's amazing XIII was as good as it was.

Yes, we'd actually care more about the characters and what's happening to them. That tends to be one of the things Tales does alright for instance, even if the plot isn't spectacular the characters at least have some depth and make you care about them.

That song just put the funniest image in my head. Thank you

Yikes, that's nightmarish. Never knew this was originally a PS2 game though, so that's an interesting detail. Makes me rather curious about XV and Type-0 in when and how they were originally conceived. The mismanagement that seems to be going on at SE really is harming them I think and I do wonder at times just how aware of the issues they are.

I feel bad for the cutscene and localization teams for having to do so much work and then have it all scrapped or changed. I can't imagine how frustrating an environment like that must have been.

It baffles me that they didn't finalize a battle system until that point. I'd guess they were simply having trouble realizing some vision of what they wanted, though the mention about internal bickering makes me think they couldn't come to any agreement on what they wanted at all. I wonder if there's some original version of XIII that's actually really good in terms of plot with all that potential realized, but I may be kidding myself.

Cross game shipping has been a thing since Dissidia came out. And the map was hidden in boxes in my house for years. I think I found it back in 2010, and this Christmas when I was home I took a shot of it that, now that I see it, did not include the whole map.

On the back of the map is a bestiary of every enemy in Final Fantasy 1.

I half wonder if that was one of the intentions of the games to be honest.

Really? I love when they put stuff like that in with games. I kind of miss having really big manuals and posters with my games since a lot of cases either have a bare bones one or a digital version.


Wait, what happened to Corvo?

 

[Wazzy]

Wait, Cor is banned?

Ah I think it might be because of the Anime thread. It's probably only a week.

Look what came in the post for me today!

FFVIII Tshirt from Teefury. Love it!

Oh damn nice! Do you have a link to the design? I want to see it up close!

 

[CrimsonCrescendo]

Corvo was banned?


Good night, sweet prince.