Support NeoGAF

[Prototype]

Damn that sucks.

I kind of want to replay FFXII at some point as well, but... I'm holding off in case they make a HD version of the Zodiac edition, lol. Would be nice, but... I dunno if they will. I think Sony requires you to bundle games with HD remasters, and I can't think of any game they could actually bundle with FFXII. The DS game wouldn't transfer over very well obviously. Maybe a remaster of Crisis Core? lol, I dunno.

I was in the same boat, wanted to wait for an HD remake, but I figured since nothing has been announced yet, it's probably going to be at least 1 year if not longer til an HD remake comes out, at which point I'd be ready to play it again. I would prefer ZJS, but it's been so long since I've played 12 that I figured fuck it, why not.

My anger has now turned into sadness. ;( oh well. I will just have to return the copy and order one off amazon and hope for the best.

edit: is 12 the only FF title to not have a remake or re-release of some kind? Or a release on psn/live? Kind of crazy to think about that. If you want to play this game, you literally have to have a ps2.

Spoiler

yes I know people can emulate, but my laptop can't

 

[Blood Diamonds]

How are you liking the story?

I ask as it's kinda hard to decide whether or not to recommend playing XIII-2 or LR since they are so different.

And yeah, poor Sazh.

It's just... I don't know, it was starting to get good and then they got to cocoon, it went downhill from there. Hope loosing his character development so that they could get his Eidolon out of the way and then him suddenly knowing that Vanille and Fang were from Oerba and that they had to go there.
Then Barthendelus showed up and it confused me so yeah, I'm at the part where the monsters from Gran Pulse showed up and started wrecking shit up.

About Sazh, after the whole thing with his son his character just.. stopped. He was turned into a character that said shitty "Jokes" on most cutscenes after that. Sad to see.

 

[ST2K]

Playing XII for the first time, I'm about 6 hours in now.

This combat system seems strange and not done particularly well, the story is really slow moving, and the music hasn't been very memorable so far. Yet, nothing's really bad at all, and the game could very easily make these elements work as it progresses.

Anyone else feel XII started slowly? Or were you engrossed pretty early on?

 

[Prototype]

@ST2K
I remember hating Vaan violently when I played it the 1st time, but the game does pick up after a while. I really liked the story in 12. Felt like a proper fantasy story. Warring nations, political intrigue, death of royalty. I really liked that, but I also really like the Ivalice-verse. The designs were great.

 

[Zantetsuken88]

Playing XII for the first time, I'm about 6 hours in now.

This combat system seems strange and not done particularly well, the story is really slow moving, and the music hasn't been very memorable so far. Yet, nothing's really bad at all, and the game could very easily make these elements work as it progresses.

Anyone else feel XII started slowly? Or were you engrossed pretty early on?

FFXII is a slow burner but I'd stick with it. The battle system becomes much more engaging over time as gambits open up to you etc.

 

[Holykael1]

It's just... I don't know, it was starting to get good and then they got to cocoon, it went downhill from there. Hope loosing his character development so that they could get his Eidolon out of the way and then him suddenly knowing that Vanille and Fang were from Oerba and that they had to go there.
Then Barthendelus showed up and it confused me so yeah, I'm at the part where the monsters from Gran Pulse showed up and started wrecking shit up.

About Sazh, after the whole thing with his son his character just.. stopped. He was turned into a character that said shitty "Jokes" on most cutscenes after that. Sad to see.

I recommend doing sidequests in Grand Pulse if you have a hard time during the final stretch of the game(there will be a portal in the final dungeon to go back there). They also unlock some really cool datalog entries called "Analects" that sadly(sad because they are optional and not integrated in the plot) are crucial to the story, especially in fleshing out villain motivations and what happens in the ending itself. If you don't want to do sidequests I would recommend reading them afterwards - http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Datalog/Analects

@ST2K
I remember hating Vaan violently when I played it the 1st time, but the game does pick up after a while. I really liked the story in 12. Felt like a proper fantasy story. Warring nations, political intrigue, death of royalty. I really liked that, but I also really like the Ivalice-verse. The designs were great.

I didn't dislike Vaan, I felt pretty indifferent about him, he was just kinda there, nothing offensive, he was a good natured guy. I hated Ashe for the most part of the game, didn't like her atittude but I don't mind, she was a well made character nonetheless. Basch and Balthier were awesome though.
I agree but at the same time I felt like the story fell apart(pacing wise) during the middle sections of the game, fell apart in the sense that it almost completely vanished for like 10-20 hours until the end of the game

 

[CarJeter]

I really enjoyed playing XII. It has been a looong time since I played it.

I also liked the battle system a lot and the freedom you have by going to random places and cities. The hunts were good too. I dont know why but they were much better than the ones in XIII. Though there is one or two things I didnt like about the game: While freedom is good and all, I think the story suffers so much under it. I remember that I was exploring areas and then when I had to go to Archadia (dont know the exact name but it was the city Balthier knew) I somehow forgot the storypoint of that. Half of the characters arent even important in the long run: Vaan, Penelo, Fran. You could say that X was similar (Tidus, Yuna and Auron being important) but atleast the other character still had interactions with them and little character arcs. Maybe I would've enjoyed the story more if I followed the storyline lol.

So yeah, the pacing and character interactions sucked in XII imo. But the rest is excellent. The game seems to be the exact opposite of X, my favourite, and i still like it lol.

 

[SoraanTribal]

I had tons of fun with the battle system, it was just engaging and satisfying to stagger enemies so if it wasn't drastically changed in XIII-2 or LR, then I guess I'll play them.

Then I'd keep at them. If there's one thing I think the XIII series does well is the battle system(s). XIII-2 is a refined version of XIII's battle system with minor tweaks (mostly for the better). The only bad thing about XIII-2's system is the game is fairly easy compared to XIII because you can get overleveled now. In XIII, you were restricted by the crystarium (which was locked until certain points in the story), but in XIII-2, you're free to fight as much as you want and level as much as you want. There are some optional harder encounters later in the game (in particular the final boss can be quite hard depending on your levels/paradigms), but for the most part, it's easy.

Lightning Returns has a very different battle system from XIII and XIII-2, but it's still really fun. Quite challenging, too (especially if you play on Normal).

As far as the story goes, there are aspects to the story in each game that I found interesting, but the execution was very flawed. XIII-2's story is mainly entertaining to me because of the Noel/Caius/Yeul dynamic (I know you have no idea who those characters are yet though lol).

Final Fantasy XIII is... a weird beast for me when it comes to the characters. I first played it back when I was an angsty 15 year old who was able to relate to the angsty Hope and pissed off Lightning. I also liked Sazh. I hated Snow, couldn't stand Serah (about the only thing that hasn't changed... though I dislike her for different reasons now), didn't like Vanille, was okay with Fang. However, now that I'm older, my perspective has changed. I find Hope to be a raging, homicidal dumbass who I can't stand; find Snow to be a good guy (bit of a dumbass, cliched, and a little annoying... but the guy really just wants what is best for everyone. I'm kinda like "You're a stand up guy, you big lug... just cut the hero bull and stop with the Serah stuff"); have come around to liking Fang (she just has no fucks to give for most of the story and its refreshing when everyone else is on the brink all the time. She might not be the most consistent, but at least she is a break from the melodrama); like Sazh pretty well still ; and am fine with Vanille. Lightning is... eh? I mean, I still like her in XIII but I can now see why a lot of people wouldn't. Despite what the writers say now, what I always took from XIII was that Lightning's character arc was for her to realize that she wasn't "super mature soldier extraordinare" like she really thought she was, which is why I can accept that Lightning really wasn't a good person for about 40% of the game. She came around, realized she was wrong, and changed. But yeah, I can really see why a lot of people wouldn't like that.

When I first played XIII, I was 25 (damn, I feel old now), so my reaction to the characters were as such:

Lightning - "God, what a bitch. Stop punching people! Won't someone stand up to this bully?" *30 hours later* "Oh, she's not so bad, I guess. Who'd have thought I'd start liking a character more when they quit being a jerk to everyone!"

Hope - "Damn, poor kid... Seeing

Spoiler

your mom die

must be rough at that age. I'd probably be pretty messed up if that happened to me at 14. Oh.. hmm, well now he's going a little bit crazy here. Lightning, why are you giving him a knife? Stop. Dang, this kid can make some awesome evil glares. Well, that's finally over. How the hell did he know about Oerba? wtf."

Vanille - "Ohh, gonna be one of THOSE types of characters. Gotta have one of those kinda ditzy/hyper girls, I guess. Oh, she's not too bad. She seems like she's hiding something behind all that happiness. She's kinda cute. Ok, I can't play this game around my roommate - the moans make me a little uncomfortable."

Fang - "Now SHE should be the main character! She's awesome. Love her voice, too. Aww, I shall ship VanillexFang in this game. It just makes sense!"

Sazh - "Now this guy is funny. Love the chocobo chick in his hair! WTF, LIGHTNING STOP PUNCHING HIM, JESUS. Lovin' this Vanille and Sazh storyline. Wow, awesome part of the story here! So.. now that's done, what is happening with Sazh now? Nothing? Oh..."

Snow - "Fuck off, Snow. Seriously."

Serah - "Serah...serah.... Who is that again? Oh, Lightning's sister. Damn, can you imagine how much it must have sucked to grow up with Lightning as your sister? Hope Lightning didn't beat her up too much as a kid."

I actually liked Serah more in XIII-2 when she wasn't just a plot device for the story (as in XIII). I thought she made for a decent main protagonist with Noel.

------

There's a lot XII did well, but it's still one of my least favorite FFs tbh. At least in the grand scheme of the franchise. It's still a fantastic game, but I didn't really care about any of the characters (minus Ashe/Balthier), and the story was a total bore. It doesn't help that the game goes for such long periods of time with no story development whatsoever. The world was amazing, though. Battles were alright (although it felt like a worse version of FFXI's battle system tbh). I want to replay it eventually (Zodiac version pls) to see if my feelings have changed since when the game came out.

 

[Holykael1]

.

My thoughts exactly(almost) as far as FF XII goes, just replace Ashe with Basch and we're good. I actually loved the storyline itself and thought it was pretty interesting(even if I forgot 75% of it, I remember liking it when I played it), I just didn't like how it had such terrible pacing and it was generally forgettable(I already forgot most of what happens and it was only 2 years since I played it).
It's cool how the villain is "right" but doing the wrong things to achieve his goal.

 

[SoraanTribal]

My thoughts exactly(almost) as far as FF XII goes, just replace Ashe with Basch and we're good. I actually loved the storyline itself and thought it was pretty interesting(even if I forgot 75% of it, I remember liking it when I played it), I just didn't like how it had such terrible pacing and it was generally forgettable(I already forgot most of what happens and it was only 2 years since I played it).
It's cool how the villain is "right" but doing the wrong things to achieve his goal.

Yeah, if the story had been paced better, I might have liked it. *shrug* It's just, by the time something new happened after a long stretch of nothing, I probably forgot what was going on or stopped caring. I honestly barely remember anything about FFXII now minus what a few areas looked like.

 

[MagiusNecros]

I actually decided to buy FFX HD. If only to eventually play X-2 and try this battle system.

I like FFX but I still dislike the leveling system. You don't really gain levels. It's more or less filling out the sphere grid and doesn't sit well with me. I just like standard rng leveling up of stats. Other then that the game isn't terrible. Might not have GILGAMESH but it has some Genji stuff so I guess I can let it slide.

Also really hate the fact that your Blue Mage of the game is limited to only using such attacks during a super move or limit break attack much like how Quistis was in FFVIII.

But it's my first real experience with FFX as before I simply watched someone play it and had that person make me unlock Wakka's Celestial years ago for them(yay fun).

I must say. I really appreciate that unlike in most FF games we actually have a beast-man barbarian to play as. I like those characters. Mainly because that's the character I usually create in DnD campaigns.

 

[ST2K]

So, it sounds like FFXII had some pacing issues and is a bit of a slow burn, though it picks up later with the freedom you get.

Alright, I'll keep pressing on,. Hope you guys are right!

 

[SoraanTribal]

I actually decided to buy FFX HD. If only to eventually play X-2 and try this battle system.

I like FFX but I still dislike the leveling system. You don't really gain levels. It's more or less filling out the sphere grid and doesn't sit well with me. I just like standard rng leveling up of stats. Other then that the game isn't terrible. Might not have GILGAMESH but it has some Genji stuff so I guess I can let it slide.

Also really hate the fact that your Blue Mage of the game is limited to only using such attacks during a super move or limit break attack much like how Quistis was in FFVIII.

But it's my first real experience with FFX as before I simply watched someone play it and had that person make me unlock Wakka's Celestial years ago for them(yay fun).

I must say. I really appreciate that unlike in most FF games we actually have a beast-man barbarian to play as. I like those characters. Mainly because that's the character I usually create in DnD campaigns.

While playing through FFX, I actually find the leveling system really fun and satisfying. I think it's only once you get into the end game that it sucks, lol. But I can understand why you would prefer a more standard leveling up system.

I definitely agree about the blue magic being restricted to Overdrives, though. It isn't even fun to get new abilities for him because you don't really use Overdrives all that often with him. I'd probably use his character more if I could actually use the blue magic.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

Lifestream actually does consider FFX canon in the FVII universe. I was on the edge about that even though the writer stated it was. Now, I wouldn't mind seeing a transitioning sequel for X.... We still don't know how Shinra got there.

 

[Jucksalbe]

Do you really feel that would make a good story? It would probably just result in them pulling some strange explanation out of their ass that wouldn't make much sense.
They should just let both series or universes rest in peace.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

Do you really feel that would make a good story? It would probably just result in them pulling some strange explanation out of their ass that wouldn't make much sense.
They should just let both series or universes rest in peace.

I was kidding.... kind of.

I would like to see a VII remake with updated graphics and voice, but that would be an enormous undertaking and likely something we'll never see.

Edit: Wait. Isn't there a rumor they're supposedly working on FFX-3?

 

[Holykael1]

I was kidding.... kind of.

I would like to see a VII remake with updated graphics and voice, but that would be an enormous undertaking and likely something we'll never see.

Edit: Wait. Isn't there a rumor they're supposedly working on FFX-3?

Yes but an X-3 supposedly would be a continuation of the audio drama(said audio drama completely butchers the characters,).

 

[Darkmakaimura]

Yes but an X-3 supposedly would be a continuation of the audio drama(said audio drama completely butchers the characters,).

Yup, I heard it was awful. Involved ball bombs and heads being blown off.

 

[CrimsonCrescendo]

Yup, I heard it was awful. Involved ball bombs and heads being blown off.

 

[CrimsonCrescendo]

It's just... I don't know, it was starting to get good and then they got to cocoon, it went downhill from there. Hope loosing his character development so that they could get his Eidolon out of the way and then him suddenly knowing that Vanille and Fang were from Oerba and that they had to go there.
Then Barthendelus showed up and it confused me so yeah, I'm at the part where the monsters from Gran Pulse showed up and started wrecking shit up.

About Sazh, after the whole thing with his son his character just.. stopped. He was turned into a character that said shitty "Jokes" on most cutscenes after that. Sad to see.

Then I'd say proceed with caution to XIII-2 if you really like the gameplay. They 'fixed' some things, but overall, I'd say they made it worse with the dumbed down strategy, lacking difficulty, and new monster system that seems half-assed. However, the level design is more open, there are minigames and sidequests, you can return to any time period you want at any time, etc. How well they executed all of that is down to personal taste.

In regards to the story... You'll either like it or you'll hate it. There are tons of interesting concepts in XIII-2 and somewhat LR but the execution is so terrible in my opinion that none of that shined through.

 

[Holykael1]

Whoever made this deserves a medal.
For what it's worth I actually think they executed Noel/Yeul and Caius extremely well. The rest is hit or miss execution wise but I love the actual storyline.

 

[Prototype]

SO i looked all over town in used game shops and finally found a store that has a copy of FF12, since gamestop sold me a unplayable disc.

I booted it up and have been playing for the last hour. Really happy, but DAMN i forgot how terrible an SD signal looks when being displayed on an HD screen.

Anything you guys do to help make the picture clearer when playing PS2 games on HD tvs?

 

[Darkmakaimura]

OH HELL YEAH!!!! I just acquired Aqualung using the Enemy Skill Materia in FFVII.

Okay, I got a question for those familiar with the Steam version of FFVII. How do I organize/arrange the magic in the menu? For instance, for me to cast Aqualung, I got to scroll down a few times and then click [ok] to use it. I don't want to have to scroll all the way down to it. Is there a way I coud put this at the top of the menu when in battle so I can cast it easier?

 

[Professor Beef]

Pretty sure E-Skills are set in place. Only green materia spells can be rearranged via the options menu.

 

[Blood Diamonds]

SO i looked all over town in used game shops and finally found a store that has a copy of FF12, since gamestop sold me a unplayable disc.

I booted it up and have been playing for the last hour. Really happy, but DAMN i forgot how terrible an SD signal looks when being displayed on an HD screen.

Anything you guys do to help make the picture clearer when playing PS2 games on HD tvs?

I think this might help

 

[ST2K]

I think this might help

Won't that only work if the game supports 480p? FF12 doesn't, to my knowledge.

 

[Prototype]

I think this might help

thanks for the link, I may get them. they are certainly cheap enough! But I'll be playing in the meantime lol, will probably be done by the time they get here.

Also, ST2K brings up a good point, the game sets my TV "480i SD". Unlike the PS3, I can't internally force the PS2 to run at a given resolution, or I would actually try that! I messed around with the aspect ratio, both in game (4:3 and 16:9) as well as the internal PS2 settings, I think setting the PS2 to 16:9, but then setting the in game options to 4:3 ends up giving the best picture. I tried all the combinations, and this one seems to be the "best", but I use that term very, very loosely.

It's not unplayable by any means, but it sure was a shock to see. Especially having just played FFX/X-2 in glorious HD... damn, it makes a huge difference. I'll probably just deal with it, was wondering mostly if you guys knew any tricks/tips on messing with TV settings. I figure after another couple hours my eyes will get used to it. It was just rather jarring at first.

 

[Holykael1]

thanks for the link, I may get them. they are certainly cheap enough! But I'll be playing in the meantime lol, will probably be done by the time they get here.

Also, ST2K brings up a good point, the game sets my TV "480i SD". Unlike the PS3, I can't internally force the PS2 to run at a given resolution, or I would actually try that! I messed around with the aspect ratio, both in game (4:3 and 16:9) as well as the internal PS2 settings, I think setting the PS2 to 16:9, but then setting the in game options to 4:3 ends up giving the best picture. I tried all the combinations, and this one seems to be the "best", but I use that term very, very loosely.

It's not unplayable by any means, but it sure was a shock to see. Especially having just played FFX/X-2 in glorious HD... damn, it makes a huge difference. I'll probably just deal with it, was wondering mostly if you guys knew any tricks/tips on messing with TV settings. I figure after another couple hours my eyes will get used to it. It was just rather jarring at first.

Decrease sharpness to 0 and those cables to help a ton. They make colours look way more vivid and the image is more crisper in general. Even without the game having the progressive scan option.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Playing FFX has me realize why FFXIII usually feels like a huge line. FFX's overall structure of progression IS a straight line.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

Pretty sure E-Skills are set in place. Only green materia spells can be rearranged via the options menu.

Don't know how I missed this reply but thanks.

I am absolutely having a thrill playing FFVII! I didn't realize a game this old could provide so much excitement in me as this game is doing. I mean, I played it more than 15 years ago but for some reason, it feels just as good if not better nowadays. I'm loving this even far more than XIII-2 which I've been playing recently.

 

[HTupolev]

Decrease sharpness to 0

Be careful with that. On some TV's, setting sharpness to 0 will turn off any sharpness filtering. But on some TVs, equilibrium is at 50, and setting it to 0 will impose the most ridiculous blur filtering you've ever seen.

 

[BocoDragon]

Playing FFX has me realize why FFXIII usually feels like a huge line. FFX's overall structure of progression IS a straight line.

Yup. I'm sure many people will argue that X is still a better use of that straight line.... but you see how they thought they could get away with it in XIII.

 

[Falk]

Playing FFX has me realize why FFXIII usually feels like a huge line. FFX's overall structure of progression IS a straight line.

Oh come on, aren't you being a little harsh? Mi'ihen Highroad -does- have some tiny alcoves off to each side.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Oh come on, aren't you being a little harsh? Mi'ihen Highroad -does- have some tiny alcoves off to each side.

Sure but general progression of the entire game is pretty much a straight line. It isn't inherently bad but reeks of a rather overly simplistic design. I call it as I see it.

 

[Levyne]

Edit: Lame post

 

[PK Gaming]

Tidus is so cool

I want to be like him someday

Best FF protagonist

 

[Labadal]

FFX is indeed a very linear game. The difference is that I didn't see a path right infront of me that I couldn't take. The battle system is also one I actually like and backtracking is allowed. Plus, there's actually side stuff to do besides monster hunting. The upgrade system in XIII was a watered down, lesser version of the sphere grid.

But you are right, both games are incredibly linear.

 

[hipsterpants]

I dunno, I feel like X was just a natural progression of the game from IX. That game is extremely limited in freedom for a good chunk of the game, especially until you get your full party.

X works because everything else is so perfectly crafted (except the terrible minigames). XIII was Toriyama's misguided attempt at recreating that magic that somehow manages to do almost everything wrong.

 

[Falk]

Sure but general progression of the entire game is pretty much a straight line. It isn't inherently bad but reeks of a rather overly simplistic design. I call it as I see it.

(That was supposed to be a joke )

 

[SougoXIII]

X was very linear but it wasn't as linear as XIII and manages to hide it's linearity well. The story gave you a clear goal on what to do next (i.e go to x temple to get the next summon.) The sphere grid is locked off but you still can grind a hell of a lot until you can't physically continue without a Lv X Keysphere - this is not to mention the international version with it's Expert sphere grid. It also introduces you to Blitzball earlier on, to let you get a breather if you're into that sort of thing. Overall, X never felt suffocatingly linear to me like XIII was.

 

[Holykael1]

X was very linear but it wasn't as linear as XIII and manages to hide it's linearity well. The story gave you a clear goal on what to do next (i.e go to x temple to get the next summon.) The sphere grid is locked off but you still can grind a hell of a lot until you can't physically continue without a Lv X Keysphere - this is not to mention the international version with it's Expert sphere grid. It also introduces you to Blitzball earlier on, to let you get a breather if you're into that sort of thing. Overall, X never felt suffocatingly linear to me like XIII was.

Indeed, the constant grind of FF XIII made those hallways seem that much more suffocating.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

How was XII when it came to linearity?

 

[Levyne]

How was XII when it came to linearity?

Highly nonlinear relative to X and XIII

Would elaborate more but I'm on my phone.

 

[SougoXIII]

How was XII when it came to linearity?

XII is on the opposite side of the scale, the world is ridiculously huge with tons of things to do, like an offline mmo. The problem is, when it come to the plot, that you can spend hours on one dungeon just to get to the next plot point - which evaporates any sort of tension/drama (most of the cast didn't help with that either.) Personally, I prefer XII's problems to XIII - especially if we're talking about the Zodiac Job version.

 

[Seda]

It's been a couple years so my memory might not be perfect, but:

There's no traditional world map or anything, there are both areas that are like open fields, and some that are more maze-like. Not many one way paths. For example, the Estersand is a open field that connects to many other maps.

There are also both optional areas you can explore, like the Necrohol of Nabudis, as well as secret/optional areas of required maps, like the Lhusu Mines. Lots of hidden equipment to get and bosses.

EDIT: I actually enjoyed just exploring the areas even when later in the game you go through like 3 or 4 in a row without much plot advancement at all.

 

[Prototype]

How was XII when it came to linearity?

tl;dr, it's far more non-linear then either 10 or 13.

I'm playing it right now and I think it's great. Most maps lead to 2 or 3 other areas, you feel as though you can go where you please. I also think that the story is better then I remember, I played it when it came out in 2006 and, I may have been too young and too impatient to appreciate it. I'm just getting through Bujerba right now and so far it's great. Excellent pacing with ample opportunity to do my own thing between each major story point.(like hunt marks!) There is a really nice balance in 12 between the linear path the story is taking you on and the option to do your own thing.

XII is on the opposite side of the scale, the world is ridiculously huge with tons of things to do, like an offline mmo. The problem is, when it come to the plot, that you can spend hours on one dungeon just to get to the next plot point - which evaporates any sort of tension/drama (most of the cast didn't help with that either.) Personally, I prefer XII's problems to XIII - especially if we're talking about the Zodiac Job version.

Can you give me an example of this? You could spend hours in any part of any game. Unless you are doing some grinding, none of the dungoens should take you "hours" to do. I don't remember anything like this when I played through it originally, and haven't come across anything even REMOTELY like that thus far in my current play through. In fact, it's been the opposite -- the story events and where you go/what you do, have been very, very well link together. Both from a narrative perspective and from a logical one. Also, the game does an excellent job of introducing smaller story arcs that are relevant to the main story as a whole and come back up again later, creating a depth to even the smaller issues the characters are dealing with. Everything thus far has been a great package, while giving me near total control of being able to leave and do what I want whenever I want like hunting marks, gathering extra loot, or just looking at the world. It's one of the best and most fully realized worlds imo.

Playing through this again has been an almost eye-opening experience for me. It's a far different experience then it was in 2006, and for the better.

 

[Seda]

Can you give me an example of this? You could spend hours in any part of any game. Unless you are doing some grinding, none of the dungoens should take you "hours" to do. I don't remember anything like this when I played through it originally, and haven't come across anything even REMOTELY like that thus far in my current play through.

IIRC it's the trek to Archades that's the most 'void of narrative'. You go through Mosphoran Highwaste, Salikawood, Phon Coast, Tchita Uplands, and the Cave Palace all without much happening in the plot. I suppose you might be able to rush through, not looking for chests and avoiding monsters. But that's no fun.

I didn't mind it.

 

[SougoXIII]

Can you give me an example of this? You could spend hours in any part of any game. Unless you are doing some grinding, none of the dungoens should take you "hours" to do. I don't remember anything like this when I played through it originally, and haven't come across anything even REMOTELY like that thus far in my current play through. In fact, it's been the opposite -- the story events and where you go/what you do, have been very, very well link together. Both from a narrative perspective and from a logical one. Also, the game does an excellent job of introducing smaller story arcs that are relevant to the main story as a whole and come back up again later, creating a depth to even the smaller issues the characters are dealing with. Everything thus far has been a great package, while giving me near total control of being able to leave and do what I want whenever I want like hunting marks, gathering extra loot, or just looking at the world. It's one of the best and most fully realized worlds imo.

Playing through this again has been an almost eye-opening experience for me. It's a far different experience then it was in 2006, and for the better.

No I don't 'grind' in dungeons. There are plenty of tricks and other places to grind. All I ever do in dungeon is exploring them for chests + 1 shot enemies on the way through. Anyways, I can't remember much from for my first 2 play-throughs 6 years ago but I can still remember that Pharos Lighthouse, Giruvegan were a freaking pain in the ass. And with my recent ZJS playthrough? I'm currently rolling my eyes even as early of the

Spoiler

Nalbina Dungeons. Let's see, I just went through a long-ass dungeon to go back to town to find out opps Penelo just got kidnapped and I have to go a mine/dungeon to get her annddddd after that? I have to go rescue Ashe and help her get her dawn shard or whatever - which, if I remembered correctly is another god damn dungeon where you get Belias as well. I said remembered because I always stopped right before that point, losing motivation to continue. So no, I don't feel that XII was well linked together, it's too bloated for it's own good.

IIRC it's the trek to Archades that's the most 'void of narrative'. You go through Mosphoran Highwaste, Salikawood, Phon Coast, Tchita Uplands, and the Cave Palace all without much happening in the plot. I suppose you might be able to rush through, not looking for chests and avoiding monsters. But that's no fun.

I didn't mind it.

Edit: Yeaaaahhh then there's that. I honestly couldn't remember any of that except for maybe the boss of Salikawood. Come to think of it I only remember bits and pieces of XII but never the whole thing but I do remember falling asleep while playing it.

For what it's worth, I do love XII and I have spent an embarrassing amount of time on it.

 

[Holykael1]

tl;dr, it's far more non-linear then either 10 or 13.

I'm playing it right now and I think it's great. Most maps lead to 2 or 3 other areas, you feel as though you can go where you please. I also think that the story is better then I remember, I played it when it came out in 2006 and, I may have been too young and too impatient to appreciate it. I'm just getting through Bujerba right now and so far it's great. Excellent pacing with ample opportunity to do my own thing between each major story point.(like hunt marks!) There is a really nice balance in 12 between the linear path the story is taking you on and the option to do your own thing.



Can you give me an example of this? You could spend hours in any part of any game. Unless you are doing some grinding, none of the dungoens should take you "hours" to do. I don't remember anything like this when I played through it originally, and haven't come across anything even REMOTELY like that thus far in my current play through. In fact, it's been the opposite -- the story events and where you go/what you do, have been very, very well link together. Both from a narrative perspective and from a logical one. Also, the game does an excellent job of introducing smaller story arcs that are relevant to the main story as a whole and come back up again later, creating a depth to even the smaller issues the characters are dealing with. Everything thus far has been a great package, while giving me near total control of being able to leave and do what I want whenever I want like hunting marks, gathering extra loot, or just looking at the world. It's one of the best and most fully realized worlds imo.

Playing through this again has been an almost eye-opening experience for me. It's a far different experience then it was in 2006, and for the better.

Just wait until the 30 hour mark.

 

[Prototype]

IIRC it's the trek to Archades that's the most 'void of narrative'. You go through Mosphoran Highwaste, Salikawood, Phon Coast, Tchita Uplands, and the Cave Palace all without much happening in the plot. I suppose you might be able to rush through, not looking for chests and avoiding monsters. But that's no fun.

I didn't mind it.

edit: also @SougoXIII, and Holy:


I don't remember 100% but, is this the part where you first enter the woods and do Fran backstory stuff or is this the revisit.

Like other people here, I haven't played through since 2006 and my memory isn't 100%, but I do remember that I never felt like there was a drop in narrative. The one thing I remember is hoping that you'd get an airship and be able to fly around like Skies of Arcadia lol.

anyway, as I progress through this current play through I'll post here. It could very well be the case that I'm not remembering things correctly.

edit2SougoXIII I'm past the part you spoilered. After the rescuing her but before going to bujerba, you have time to do what you want. I took the party and caught up on all my hunts and did a little exploring. Now in Bujerba, I went through the mines, but before that explored the town and got new equipment. It seems like you are complaining about normal RPG progress. Town, explore, fight, repeat. I mean, what else is there to do? It's an RPG? Do you level the same complaints at other FF games because they have the same basic formula? Also, neither of those dungeons took an hour to complete. You get breaks between them. (both narrative and exploratory) I may not be remembering everything correctly, but on this point I am. I don't feel as if your complaint measures up to the reality of the game at this point. Or RPGs in general, you are complaining because the game is providing you with dungeons to play through?