Hey, it'll give the 'Even if the world's against you, I'll be your knight.' thing more meaning.
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FINAL FANTASY Community Thread: XV Mainline Entries and Counting
- Thread starter Kagari
- Start date
Hey, it'll give the 'Even if the world's against you, I'll be your knight.' thing more meaning.
I like FF8 for reasons unrelated to the story. It's not FF6, so its story doesn't have to be great.
And Aerith was pretty dead by that point. Even if the sword-stab doesn't kill her, she'd have bled out during the boss-fight.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
This is what happens when you don't use practical armor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=R9PWk_b1JxU#t=585s
First time in the game he makes apparent he cares about others; same scene wherein Rinoa talks about how she loved Seifer, coincidentally. Likewise, the ball-room's CGI is the only one of the first disc wherein Squall expresses other emotions than anger and apathy: Rinoa leaves him dumb-founded. But yeah, I get what you're saying: it's never explicit, indeed, but FFVIII is also about interpretation since, as I've said in the other thread, the game does allow quite a bit of room for that.
It was, very explicitly
Jenova. Which kind of blew my mind. The hilarious part is the game straight up tells you this in the dialogue before and after the fight.
Not a lot of people remember that Cloud almost killed her. And you get a line of dialogue about Cloud being a puppet. Then after the battle, the same person speaks, but the speaker's name is changed to Jenova.
Jenova tried to control Cloud to kill Aeris, his friends restrained him or he resisted, then Jenovaroth impaled Aeris.
It is, admittedly, something of a fine point, since Sephiroth has been off chilling in the lifestream at this point, and using his tools to bring him the Black Materia, but it's an important fine point - the memory that sticks is 'Sephiroth killed Aeris', directly. And that's not what happened.
It's also funny because you're chasing Jenovaroth across the continents and the game sort of 'tells you' this early when it literally tosses a part of its body at you that transforms into a Jenova monster. I think that kind of failed due to PSX presentation though, it was pretty janky.
In general revisiting the story has been a mindfuck, there's 'The FF7 I remember' and what actually happened in that game. I mean, it's been what, over 15 years now? I love FF games, but I very rarely replay them, and I never replayed FF7. Instead I had my memory of it corrupted gradually over time by terrible EU and fanbase talk :V
Not a lot of people remember that Cloud almost killed her. And you get a line of dialogue about Cloud being a puppet. Then after the battle, the same person speaks, but the speaker's name is changed to Jenova.
Jenova tried to control Cloud to kill Aeris, his friends restrained him or he resisted, then Jenovaroth impaled Aeris.
It is, admittedly, something of a fine point, since Sephiroth has been off chilling in the lifestream at this point, and using his tools to bring him the Black Materia, but it's an important fine point - the memory that sticks is 'Sephiroth killed Aeris', directly. And that's not what happened.
It's also funny because you're chasing Jenovaroth across the continents and the game sort of 'tells you' this early when it literally tosses a part of its body at you that transforms into a Jenova monster. I think that kind of failed due to PSX presentation though, it was pretty janky.
In general revisiting the story has been a mindfuck, there's 'The FF7 I remember' and what actually happened in that game. I mean, it's been what, over 15 years now? I love FF games, but I very rarely replay them, and I never replayed FF7. Instead I had my memory of it corrupted gradually over time by terrible EU and fanbase talk :V
Professor Beef
Banned
Actually, you're incorrect.
Each time you see Sephiroth in FF7, until you reach the Planet's Core, it's actually a piece of Jenova.
Soon. On Blu-Ray.
I said that in my post, though. That's the entire reason I brought up Doombots. Hasn't it been established at this point that Sephiroth was controlling Jenova, though?
Professor Beef
Banned
The party doesn't know, but the player has enough pieces of the puzzle to make an assumption at that point. It's been a while, but I don't think the party figures that out until around the Mt. Glacier incident.
Right, but the idea is that, Sephiroth clone or not, if Sephiroth used Jenova to kill Aerith, then Sephiroth killed Aerith. There's a reason nobody remembers the deed as belonging to Jenova.
X-2 Yuna?
After playing XIII again, I'm feeling more partial towards Fang and Lightning. Despite the shoddy writing of course. Not to say they are the best, especially since I haven't fully played XII.
Fang is abusive and horrible. At one point she nearly punches Vanille in the face.
And nearly stabs her to death between the first and second Orphan fights
I'm ok with all of this
I was pretty upset because people told me the game had a lesbian relationship and I got that
Toriyama made me cheat on Stella with Lightning. Eventually I was sent to the hole wherein I shot myself a bullet for my valentine so that my tears didn't fall, they could only crash around me; and I got to see the Light with these bloodshot eyes.
You expected anything in FFXIII to be pleasing to anyone not named Toriyama?
Femmeworth
Banned
I'm not seeing a problem with any of that.
Vanille is shit. Being serious, their (platonic) relationship is unhealthy. Still, the bar for Final Fantasy characters isn't that high.You were lied to. They are faux (aka subtext) lesbians at most, which don't count.
I liked XIII
I'm not seeing a problem with any of that.
You were lied to. They are faux (aka subtext) lesbians at most, which don't count.
Are there any decent relationships in FF that are actually present on screen?
Femmeworth
Banned
Nope.
Says who? Fang seemed like a total jealous girlfriend the entire time. Nothing contradicts it.
Yes, Sephiroth was in control of the Jenova cells.
All the Sephiroths you encounter in the game are parts of Jenova, migrating together. They're going towards the head, which Sephiroth kept with him when he fell into the Mako.
However, it's confirmed that eventually Sephiroth and Jenova pretty much became one and Sephiroth was in control.
Zidane x Garnet is the least awful in the series. I have deliberately couched this statement in such language because if I said "Zidane x Garnet was good and I liked it" I'd inevitably get some self-hating fan coming along going "NO IT WAS TERRIBLE BECAUSE FF CAN'T DO ANYTHING RIGHT AND THAT'S WHY I KEEP PLAYING THEM."
So Zidane x Garnet is the least awful. Delita x Ovelia is the most tragic, though.
Femmeworth
Banned
Says me. Anything less than overt confirmation is unacceptable, especially when it comes to Japanese media. (Not to say overt relationships are problem free either.)
I was referring to this scene:
Squall
"It's a good opportunity to test out my training. Thanks to you, I feel like I can take on anyone. Even if they do fight dirty like you."
And then Zell get's mad because he thinks they're being buddies.
Squall is definitely interested in her in disc 1. He's visibly upset when she walks away and is enjoying himself when they're dancing. He also get's annoyed when Rinoa tells him that Seifer was one of the reasons she was at the dance.
Oh that spelling of Rinoa. However, I do think Seifer deserved a redemption. He's a teenager manipulated by his attitude and jealousy issues.
So no, no one lied to anyone. You may personally not like the idea, but that doesn't mean you have facts.
What if Fang was male, would you have the same opinion?
If Fang was male we'd all suspect he was gay for Hope.
Because you know, interacting with Hope in any way is reason enough to ship someone with him, according to this fanbase.
Femmeworth
Banned
Shippers are crazy.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HideYourLesbians
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SchoolgirlLesbians
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RomanticTwoGirlFriendship
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BaitAndSwitchLesbians
Japanese media has a history of badly portraying lesbians. (It's TVTropes, sue me.)
So lesbians are basically men.
Shippers ruin everything. Do you watch Adventure Time? Don't ever go near the fanbase. It's a lovely show ruined by vicious people demanding legitimacy for their PB/Marceline fan fics.
Well it was, then they gave them Fionna and Cake and worst of all Marshall Lee. Now the fanbase deserves to die a slow, horrible death.
It only gets worse in XIII-2 where they age Hope up for no reason.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
GILGAMESH x Excalipoor
oh god i thought i was done with him
Femmeworth
Banned
She taught him how to be a man. Even gave him a phallic object.
Judging from the trailers for LR, I should think not. Hope is apparently next most popular after Snow, though, since he was picked for TFF instead of Fang.
I haven't see the trailer for LR yet because it apparently spoils XIII-2 so this is really disappointing.
I interpreted that quote with a sarcastic tone, Squall's not really grateful that Seifer scared him for life. He just pointed out that since he managed to beat someone who resort to dirty tricks like Seifer, he feel like 'he can take on anyone.' Again, Squall acknowledge Seifer's ability but that's a far cry from looking up to him.
Of course he would be upset when Rinoa walks away from him at the dance. Here's a girl who's literally dragged him against his will with to the dance floor then left at a moment's notice. I think a 'wtf' is not out of the ordinary here. If Rinoa did make such an impression on him, you would think that Squall would've mention her once or twice in his thought afterward. Instead, he seem to completely forget about her until Quitis brought her up.
About getting annoy When Rinoa mention Seifer. Are you referring to the scene when they first met in Timber?
Squall: 'Were you there to meet headmaster Cid?
Rinoa: 'You know Seifer?'
Squall: '... Yeah'
I reason why I remember this so well's because I just got to this bit after replaying FF8. Here Squall's certainly annoy that Rinoa brought up Seifer but that's due to all the bad blood between them, not because he was jealous of Seifer.
I dunno, all it spoils is the ending, which is awful.
It must be experienced in the proper way!
I'm not sure why you're being unnecessarily rude. It's a pretty simple yes/no question.
Properly horrible.
There's nothing sarcastic about it. He's telling Seifer the reason he's willing to disobey standby is because he feels confident enough to fight after fighting Seifer. The comment at the end is just him getting a cheap shot at Seifer for cutting him. Why do you think Zell is so mad that they're being friendly? Heck, Seifer opens up a little bit to Squall in the following scenes.
Explain him smiling then? How about him dancing properly even though for most of it he faked bad dancing so that she would leave? Even Quistis took notice of the impression she left on him.
Where are you getting this bad blood idea? Seifer and Squall have issues and a rivalry but they still have mutual respect for each other. There's no reason for him to react like he does to her mentioning Seifer. I'll pull up the exact quote, it's long so bear with me:
Squall
"I'm Squall, the squad leader. There's two others with me"
Rinoa
"YESSSSS! SeeD is here!"
Squall
"Take it easy"
Rinoa
"It's just that, I'm so happy!"
"I've been sending requests to Garden forever, but nothing..."
"I'm so glad I spoke to Cid directly!"
Now here's where we see a shift in Squall's attitude.
Squall
"Oh..."
"So you were looking for the headmaster at the party?"
Rinoa
"You know Seifer?"
Squall
"...Yeah."
Rinoa
"Well he's the one that introduced me to Cid."
She goes on to praise Cid and then suddenly Squall goes:
Squall
"I'm goin back to the others"
Rinoa
"Okay let's go!"
"um, Squall, is 'he' here?"
Squall
" 'he'?"
Rinoa
"Seifer"
Squall
"....No, he's not a SeeD.
He pauses a lot when responding about Seifer and he seems annoye that she was only looking for Cid.
Another thing to point out is that he never shakes hands with people but immediately does with Rinoa.
Femmeworth
Banned
It's a disingenuous question.
I'm afraid this is where our interpretation differs. Squall's clearly upset with Seifer for scarring him and sent him to the infirmary in the opening FMV. The fact that Seifer also uses dirty tricks to do so while Squall had the upper hand didn't help. Furthermore, Seifer's the one who initiated the duel even though Squall had other plans that day (Fire Cavern) shows that Squall didn't really care about what Seifer is up to unless provoked. It's a known fact that Squall and Seifer don't get alone - Quistis even commented on it at the beginning 'I knew it'll either be you or Seifer.' Zell's mad because he thought Squall would hate Seifer like him but was shocked that Squall actually agree with Seifer on something. Squall and Seifer are alike sure but they certainly don't like each other.
You forgot the part where he did tried to leave... and failed. That tactics certainly wasn't working. In that situation, it's better to just get it over with than continue to make an ass of himself again and draw more attention. As for him smiling, is it hard to imagine that Squall could have enjoy that dance in the moment? I'm no enthusiast but I'm sure even Squall can find something enjoyable.
Rinoa isn't just anyone. She is his client on his first job. What is he going to do? Ignore her handshake and make himself look like an ass to his employer? Squall may be anti-social but he does know how to be diplomatic when it need to be.
I did not say it would be a good thing!
It won't be. It's the 2nd worst video game ending I've ever seen. I can only hope you feel no emotional attachment to XIII, its world, or its characters by the time XIII-2 ends. Because that ending is the final testament to how profoundly terrible XIII became. It's like a metaphor for the games themselves.
No, it's perfectly valid. Would your opinion on the relationship be different if Fang were male?
Of course he is upset. Seifer cut open his face. It doesn't change the fact that they both have mutual respect for each other and they acknowledge it in the scene I posted before. I'm not saying Squall likes Seifer but he doesn't hate him and he definitely looks up to him on his fighting.
Yes he tried to leave but when Rinoa persists and even defends his dancing mistake, that's when he starts to change his attitude with her and start dancing properly. If he wasn't impressed by her he wouldn't have cared that she walked away but the scene is showing he's bothered by her leaving abruptly. He was enjoying himself with her.
He ignored Zone and Watt's when they tried to do a handshake and they're both his clients. He does it to other people too but I can't remember at the moment who they are.
Did you count Zell?
Oh yeah! He does it to Zell a lot. I remember he does it at the dance. I think he also does it to Laguna but I would have to check.
Femmeworth
Banned
Started up XIII-2.
This is off to a great start.
- Why does Lighting now talk like this?
- The dialogue.
- Seeing Lightning's new outfit from the back, I now understand why people don't like it.
- The cutscenes are rather poorly directed when it comes to the action. I don't know what the crap is happening half the time. I guess I'm supposed to be amazed by all the incoherent crazy shit happening. Well, it's not like the action in the first game was much better directed.
- This "Cinematic Action" stuff was ill-conceived.
- The visual coherency is especially bad during QTEs with that effect at the top and bottom of the screen.
- Why did Lightning give Noel a Precure mascot to give to Serah? Why does it turn into a weapon?
- "Where did these clothes come from?" I'm wondering the same thing, Serah.
- Serah's new outfit. Why. I'm seriously considering buying her a better outfit. I can't take this seriously. The N7 Armor looks like the best choice, despite the cross-promotion.
This is off to a great start.
- Why does Lighting now talk like this?
- The dialogue.
- Seeing Lightning's new outfit from the back, I now understand why people don't like it.
- The cutscenes are rather poorly directed when it comes to the action. I don't know what the crap is happening half the time. I guess I'm supposed to be amazed by all the incoherent crazy shit happening. Well, it's not like the action in the first game was much better directed.
- This "Cinematic Action" stuff was ill-conceived.
- The visual coherency is especially bad during QTEs with that effect at the top and bottom of the screen.
- Why did Lightning give Noel a Precure mascot to give to Serah? Why does it turn into a weapon?
- "Where did these clothes come from?" I'm wondering the same thing, Serah.
- Serah's new outfit. Why. I'm seriously considering buying her a better outfit. I can't take this seriously. The N7 Armor looks like the best choice, despite the cross-promotion.