She's still saying Cloud reminded her of Zack, with the dubious disclaimer that's he's different and 'things' are different, which isn't exactly saying he's completely different from Zack. What that 'different' thing is though, I don't know. But honestly, the weirdest part is that she thinks they look exactly alike.
Must be a translation problem because after she's saying what reminded her of Zack was his gestures and the way he walks and I assume, dressed. His eyes must have been another similarity she noticed but I won't ever buy she thought they were the same person.
It's obvious her initial attraction is because his looks and actions are similar to Zack but she knows his personality is different. They also knew each other a lot longer than people make it out to be. Yes, she dies at the end of disc 1 but disc 1 is fairly long.
I will say, one of my biggest complaints about Aerith is that she dies so early. I think they could have had the same impact by having her die near the end of the game.
Must be a translation problem because after she's saying what reminded her of Zack was his gestures and the way he walks and I assume, dressed. His eyes must have been another similarity she noticed but I won't ever buy she thought they were the same person.
It's obvious her initial attraction is because his looks and actions are similar to Zack but she knows his personality is different. They also knew each other a lot longer than people make it out to be. Yes, she dies at the end of disc 1 but disc 1 is fairly long.
That's the entire point and an early hint about Cloud's personality not being totally "real."
It's a little odd that most people are glossing over the MAJOR plot point that Cloud is mimicking Zack for most of the game, or at least how he perceived Zack.
Aerith is a little amazed out at the similarities, and that's because Cloud legitimately IS inhumanly similar to Zack at the time.
It's caused a combination by his hero-worshipping, traumatized mind, and from the mimicry effects of the Jenova cells.
Must be a translation problem because after she's saying what reminded her of Zack was his gestures and the way he walks and I assume, dressed. His eyes must have been another similarity she noticed but I won't ever buy she thought they were the same person.
It's obvious her initial attraction is because his looks and actions are similar to Zack but she knows his personality is different. They also knew each other a lot longer than people make it out to be. Yes, she dies at the end of disc 1 but disc 1 is fairly long.
I will say, one of my biggest complaints about Aerith is that she dies so early. I think they could have had the same impact by having her die near the end of the game.
Yeah, the translation doesn't do the story any favors, but I wonder if back then they were supposed to look more alike physically? Other than the hair, obvs. Cloud looks taller and more chiseled in the early AC promo material than he did in the final cut of the film, so somewhere around this time, his physical attributes were adjusted, making him shorter and softer. The compilation striking again.
As for Aerith, I absolutely 100% believe she had genuine feelings for Cloud. But she never knows the real version of him, so who exactly is it that she's fallen for? I'm sure she digs Cloud's rad motorcycle driving skills and seems to think he's cute, but the initial draw is still due to Zack, so it's likely there's some residual fondness she's transferring here. But like you said, it's a shame she died when she did. It would have been interesting to see what might have been.
Yeah, the translation doesn't do the story any favors, but I wonder if back then they were supposed to look more alike physically? Other than the hair, obvs. Cloud looks taller and more chiseled in the early AC promo material than he did in the final cut of the film, so somewhere around this time, his physical attributes were adjusted, making him shorter and softer. The compilation striking again.
As for Aerith, I absolutely 100% believe she had genuine feelings for Cloud. But she never knows the real version of him, so who exactly is it that she's fallen for? I'm sure she digs Cloud's rad motorcycle driving skills and seems to think he's cute, but the initial draw is still due to Zack, so it's likely there's some residual fondness she's transferring here. But like you said, it's a shame she died when she did. It would have been interesting to see what might have been.
Well, of course. But that doesn't have much to do with her feelings during the love triangle or her initial attraction to him. And after she kicks the bucket, she reunites with Zack in the lifestream. There's no indication she falls for the real Cloud after she dies. Unless I'm missing something.
Wouldn't tell you about FFVIII, but I've got this book about FFVII a few months ago (Final Fantasy VII) and the author based his writings on the Japanese version, if I'm not mistaken. He made a summary of the story of the entire compilation so that I always use it to check over facts whenever I discuss the plot in-depth.
Well, of course. But that doesn't have much to do with her feelings during the love triangle or her initial attraction to him. And after she kicks the bucket, she reunites with Zack in the lifestream. There's no indication she falls for the real Cloud after she dies. Unless I'm missing something.
That she doesn't really know? She never meets the real Cloud when she's alive; she's not around for any of his existential crisis. That's important stuff for his character development.
That she doesn't really know? She never meets the real Cloud when she's alive; she's not around for any of his existential crisis. That's important stuff for his character development.
You say this like she wasn't aware Cloud wasn't entirely okay in the head. She was (posted just last page), and, if novellas written into the canon years down the road are to be trusted, she was entirely aware of his dilemma, and did her best to help him through it.
A large part of Aerith's character is that she continues to be a part of the party's life even after she dies.
At least she wasn't like Tifa, who knew about Cloud's terrible mental state and hid it from everyone even while Sephiroth was abusing it to get his paws on the Black Materia.
You don't count Tidus/Yuna/Seymour as a LT? Yuna engages by duty, Seymour for power but may feel for Yuna seeing how he acts before getting crazy (same as Hojo and Seifer) and Tidus is jealous.
You don't count Tidus/Yuna/Seymour as a LT? Yuna engages by duty, Seymour for power but may feel for Yuna seeing how he acts before getting crazy (same as Hojo and Seifer) and Tidus is jealous.
Nope. Seymour and Yuna was out of duty, nothing more. For it to be a LT, at least one of the people has to have feelings for one of the other involved.
Hmm, well I don't remember it myself and I don't feel like re-watching cut-scenes because of FFX HD, but I'm pretty sure he teases her at some point and even manages to make her giggle. But yeah, it's definitely not on the same as FFVII's or FFVIII's.
You say this like she wasn't aware Cloud wasn't entirely okay in the head. She was (posted just last page), and, if novellas written into the canon years down the road are to be trusted, she was entirely aware of his dilemma, and did her best to help him through it.
A large part of Aerith's character is that she continues to be a part of the party's life even after she dies.
At least she wasn't like Tifa, who knew about Cloud's terrible mental state and hid it from everyone even while Sephiroth was abusing it to get his paws on the Black Materia.
Everyone in the party knows Cloud's a head case. Still doesn't mean she (or anyone really, barring Tifa) knew, understood, or loved the person he really was until after he exits the lifestream. At which point Aerith is dead, chilling with Zack in the hereafter.
And Aerith is a very small part of their life after she dies. The girl isn't hanging out at 7th Heaven throwing back beers with the crew, crushing on Cloud.
I'm not denying she had feelings for him when she was alive, but you have to excuse a lot of VII's plot and Cloud's development to conclude she cared for the same guy Tifa did.
Completely on the same page as Rataven's. Likewise, was also agreeing with you when you were saying Squall remains an insecure teenager rather than a "professional" in the other thread.
I still disagree. I can't think of many moments where he let's feelings get in the way unless we're talking about past disc 2. Sure, he had a couple outburst here and there but not towards anyone.
You're referring to the Galbadia scene right? That's actually what I was referring to when talking about his outbursts. It's not directed at anyone, it's him thinking aloud, hence everyone being confused at the abruptness of it.
XIII-2 is definitely considerably less polished than its predecessor. The frame rate drops at the slightest thing outside of battle and the NPCs do stupid things, like continuously run into a wall.
*pulls mystical rock thing out of misplaced mirror* "I think this is an artifact." No shit, Noel.
It's cute and very hard to purchase bikini sets like it if you're a grown up in north america. The best place to get cute suits like that is korea and at a premium.
As for FF8's NA translation, it's pretty much excellent. Some of the NA localization staff were close friends with the JP staff, plus the thing wasn't translated in random bits which made for great consistency across the game. The European lang ones are where the changes come in.
XIII-2 is definitely considerably less polished than its predecessor. The frame rate drops at the slightest thing outside of battle and the NPCs do stupid things, like continuously run into a wall.
*pulls mystical rock thing out of misplaced mirror* "I think this is an artifact." No shit, Noel.
It's cute and very hard to purchase bikini sets like it if you're a grown up in north america. The best place to get cute suits like that is korea and at a premium.
As for FF8's NA translation, it's pretty much excellent. Some of the NA localization staff were close friends with the JP staff, plus the thing wasn't translated in random bits which made for great consistency across the game. The European lang ones are where the changes come in.
Really? I've heard people say the character translations weren't very good. I remember people saying Squall tones down the whatever's and Rinoa is less childish.
Plus they forgot to translate some important details like why Ultimecia summoned Griever. It's why people started the R=U theory.
Everyone in the party knows Cloud's a head case. Still doesn't mean she (or anyone really, barring Tifa) knew, understood, or loved the person he really was until after he exits the lifestream. At which point Aerith is dead, chilling with Zack in the hereafter.
And Aerith is a very small part of their life after she dies. The girl isn't hanging out at 7th Heaven throwing back beers with the crew, crushing on Cloud.
I'm not denying she had feelings for him when she was alive, but you have to excuse a lot of VII's plot and Cloud's development to conclude she cared for the same guy Tifa did.
She never spoke up because -- one, she didn't want to embarrass him in front of the others, and two she could see how fragile his mental state was, and not being a psychotherapist, she didn't want to risk traumatizing him further. Cloud is loony toons. LOONEY TOONS. Tifa's a friggin bartender. And while you could argue that she certainly sees her share of crazy people in her line of work, no one could be prepared for Cloud's level of batshit insanity. Look what happened to him when he did find out! Tifa's weakness is that she cares too much.
She never spoke up because -- one, she didn't want to embarrass him in front of the others, and two she could see how fragile his mental state was, and not being a psychotherapist, she didn't want to risk traumatizing him further. Cloud is loony toons. LOONEY TOONS. Tifa's a friggin bartender. And while you could argue that she certainly sees her share of crazy people in her line of work, no one could be prepared for Cloud's level of batshit insanity. Look what happened to him when he did find out! Tifa's weakness is that she cares too much.
lol, it would've saved everyone a whole lot of trouble if she had spoken up about it.
Having recently replayed VII though, I was really bothered/disappointed by Tifa's characterization because she's almost entirely defined by her feelings for Cloud.
lol, it would've saved everyone a whole lot of trouble if she had spoken up about it.
Having recently replayed VII though, I was really bothered/disappointed by Tifa's characterization because she's almost entirely defined by her feelings for Cloud.
Yeah, I'll agree that's a problem with her characterization. She has other interests -- martial arts, her job, caring for Marlene and Denzel.....but her focus is always on Cloud.
Duodecim does give her a nice break from all that though. Her adventures with Kain were entertaining.
Yeah, I'll agree that's a problem with her characterization. She has other interests -- martial arts, her job, caring for Marlene and Denzel.....but her focus is always on Cloud.
Duodecim does give her a nice break from all that though. Her adventures with Kain were entertaining.
She never spoke up because -- one, she didn't want to embarrass him in front of the others, and two she could see how fragile his mental state was, and not being a psychotherapist, she didn't want to risk traumatizing him further. Cloud is loony toons. LOONEY TOONS. Tifa's a friggin bartender. And while you could argue that she certainly sees her share of crazy people in her line of work, no one could be prepared for Cloud's level of batshit insanity. Look what happened to him when he did find out! Tifa's weakness is that she cares too much.
I may be remembering wrong but I recall Tifa's reasons being more selfish than that. Wasn't the reason she didn't tell him is because she thought he wouldn't like her?
She never spoke up because -- one, she didn't want to embarrass him in front of the others, and two she could see how fragile his mental state was, and not being a psychotherapist, she didn't want to risk traumatizing him further. Cloud is loony toons. LOONEY TOONS. Tifa's a friggin bartender. And while you could argue that she certainly sees her share of crazy people in her line of work, no one could be prepared for Cloud's level of batshit insanity. Look what happened to him when he did find out! Tifa's weakness is that she cares too much.
I'm sorry, but she takes it too far by Nibelheim. Not telling him while they're in Midgar I can believe, but after that she should've said SOMETHING. Tifa sat there, listened to Cloud's absolutely incorrect version of the Nibelheim incident, and said nothing. She knowingly lets the party follow someone who isn't alright in the head. Supposing she had a good reason to not say anything then, she should've said something in Gongaga. Both Aerith and Tifa react negatively to finding out that this is Zack's house and all, and where Aerith makes an offhand comment and is excused from not saying anything, it's because she doesn't want to talk about her dead boyfriend after just meeting his parents with her current boyfriend.
Tifa doesn't want to talk to Cloud about Zack because it would be helpful and stop Sephiroth from manipulating him. Supposing she STILL could be excused, you get to Nibelheim. No wait, you ANNOUNCE you're going to Nibelheim and she says nothing. Then you get to Nibelheim and see it's all 100% like it was, and rather than say ANYTHING, she keeps shut. Sephiroth starts messing with Cloud and telling him he's a puppet and uses the discrepancies in Cloud's memories as his evidence. If Tifa had said anything prior to that moment, Cloud wouldn't have thought he was a clone, and he wouldn't've handed Sephiroth the black materia.
But what does she do? DURING Sephiroth's exposition, where he explains who Zack was, and what Cloud allegedly is, she denies ALL of it. She just sits there and is all "no Cloud there was no Zack, blah blah blah". More than Hojo or Sephiroth's lying, Tifa manages to break Cloud over her knee by keeping him thinking his version of the story is true, which he doubts because everything around him points to that being false.
Tifa doesn't know Cloud any more than Aerith does, either. Let's not forget that we find out down the road that they barely knew each other as children, then Cloud goes off to join Shin-Ra, and when next Tifa sees Cloud, he's lost his personality. After all, they barely meet during the Nibelheim incident. So for something like five-to-ten years, Tifa hasn't seen Cloud, and when she does, he's "not himself" the first time she meets the real Cloud is in the Life Stream, which is, of course, where Aerith also discovers the real deal.
ERGO, Tifa shippin' ain't no more valid than Aerith shippin'.
And don't get me started on Yuffie! Girl knew Zack personally and what does she do? NOTHIN'. Can't even be bothered to appear in the game's ending!
CorvoSol, that's a little reaching with personal interpretation and ignoring huge chunks of character development to put Tifa's character down and prop Aerith's up. The two women end up with their respective guys in the end, and happy, anyway. No need to pit them against each other.
Characters keeping secrets is a narrative device used on many mediums. It's the same reason Irvine in FF8 doesn't tell everyone they were all at Edea's orphanage in disc 1. It's also the same reason Aerith doesn't say anything about Zacks herself, when she had many chances since the moment she met Cloud. It has nothing to do with character and more to do with (bad) storytelling.
Really? I've heard people say the character translations weren't very good. I remember people saying Squall tones down the whatever's and Rinoa is less childish.
Plus they forgot to translate some important details like why Ultimecia summoned Griever. It's why people started the R=U theory.
Warukatta/my bad and whatever are not exact translations but very close in usage, the point is that Squall is "brushing off". Rinoa had cutesy engrish phrases Nomura gave to her, some are missing because they just won't come off right in English unless we do some weird spoonybard stuff to lines like "hug hug" and "oh-hello/morning" and the mood gets altered.
There's absolutely no indication Zack and Aerith ended up together and later material disproves it. Not every game needs a complete happy ending and I prefer VII's to be bittersweet, even if I don't really like CloudxAerith.
Now, can that be your interpretation? Sure, but it's also up to the player to decide if Cloud chose Aerith.
As for VIII, I think there's a big difference when saying "whatever" and "I'm sorry" even if I think people exaggerate how much he uses whatever. Have you played the Japanese version?
