So here are some choice FF comments from 15 years ago to put the current S-E comments into perspective. Note you could put FF13 into a lot of them and the complaints would be...pretty much the same.
***
FrostyDoom Feb 12 1998, 1:00 am
Yeah, that's right. FFVII makes me sick. It breaks all rules of decency. The
arrogant use of FMV ruins the entire experience. Plot thickening sequences
should be done in generally the same graphical format as the game play.
Otherwise the game has no cohesion. The story is diluted by shallow characters
who don't reach the standards that good RPG characters should reach(especially
FF characters). The load time makes the transition between playing periods
less meaningful. The music doesn't bring forth the emotion that a good RPG
depends on. All of the previous FF games are better than this piece of trash.
Sony's game industry will never survive if it doesn't realize that the quality
lies in the content of the game itself, not the level of technology used.
***
Bahamut Sep 26 1997, 12:00 am
Sean Daugherty wrote:
<snip>
> Hmmm... I don't think so. FF5 interwove character development and plot
> much more tightly than FF6. While playing FF6, I got the distinct
> feeling there was too much of a seperation between "character scenes"
> and "plot scenes". Locke and Celes got some great moments, but they were
> largely irrelevant to the plot, and, when they were, made little sense
> (Celes' incredible leaps of logic at the start of the WoR). The closest
> the game came to interweaving them, IMHO, was in Mobliz in the WoR. But
> I didn't like the flow, and it hurt the story.
This is exactly how I feel but I didn't realize it. My god, your
absolutly right! The story to FF6 sucks so much IMO because it really
has nothing to do with the story. I mean, edgar, sabin, everyone does
not really need to be in there. I've never noticed this at all. I
think the only persons story that really effects the game is terra's.
***
ALM Jan 15 1998, 1:00 am
Final Fantasy VII = Worst Game Ever Seen!!
Whipping a dead horse? Perhaps. I disagree, with that original poster ... it
wasn't the worst game ever made. But it was a pretty bad one. And for months
I had to rummage through the (IMHO) piles of undeserved glowing praise for
this game. Few people came out and said this sucker was crap, but there were
a few. And their numbers have increased a little over time. But, here I am,
school was cancelled today and I'd just like to put in MY two-cents.
1. Sub-standard music for a 32-bit system. I have a lot of difficulty
believing that there are people who could listen to, say, Castlevania: SotN,
and then listen to the overly-synthesized sounding screeches that make up the
music of FFVII, and still say that the sound in FFVII is great. Obviously,
the people saying this either have poor hearing, or are such SQUARE zealots
that, well . . . I won't get into that.
2. Mini-Games. What the hell was the POINT of all this nonsense?! There are
so many points in the game where the control changes to accomodate for
accomplishing one dumb little task or another. I think the most idiotic
example of this was just before Tifa jumps out of Junon and is saved by the
airship (you know, when you get into a slapping match with Scarlet?).
3. Cinematics. Only about a half hour or so of movies in this game? The fans
actually SAID this? Okay, FFVII fans are STUPID. There is a HELL of a lot
more than 30-minutes of movies in this game. Other times, these "playable
cinemas" are so linear that they may as well not be playable (the opening of
disc two, for example).
4. Ugly graphics. I'm sorry, but those squat characters in towns,
overworld, and all of the real-time rendered cinemas, with their massive
forearms are just hideous. Their appearance kills any sense of drama in the
game. (Oh, look, a baby Popeye is upset that the other baby Popeye in drag is
dead).
5. Combat. There are a lot of people that agree with me here. The combat
sytem is a joke. Fighting is usually the only real gameplay to be found in an
RPG. Lucky us, we get stuck with a lot of characters that have about the same
performance and special abilities (let's face it, most of the limit breaks do
nothing more than inflict damage one way or another ... ooh, big variety
there). These characters are practically all the same.
There, a usual defense of most FFVII-lovers is "people who bash FFVII never
support it". Well, I've supported it.
-- ALM,
***
Kathy Hupp Jun 20 1995, 12:00 am
Final Fantasy 2 has the BEST story line of all. I like FF2 better than FF3
by far. I think FF3 sucks compared to over all feel in FF2. FF2 was
simply, THE BEST game. How many games make you want to cry? Not very damn
many. FF3 did'nt come close. Still a very good game but no FF2 $) . Any
Ultima sucks rocks compared to FF2 if you ask me. Anyone out there agree
or differ?
Shane Hupp.
***
CronoDAS Dec 21 1998, 1:00 am
No, FF7 is the worst game Square ever made. After FF7 and Saga Frontier, all
Square games have become strictly rent-first.
Here's why FF7 is a 2 on a scale of 1 to 10:
1) Ugly graphics.
There's something about nearly all rendered graphics that makes me find it
ugly. I much prefer the look of hand-drawn games such as Tales of Destiny.
Additionally, the polygon characters look ridiculous. Their feet look like
hooves, and their elbows have 1/3 the diameter of the rest of their arms! Their
faces lack important features, like noses. FF7 is uglier than Quake.
Finally, the battle backgrounds are of low quality. Just stare at the battle
backgrounds in FF6; you will see a beautiful hand-drawn scenw, while FF7 has a
polygon-based mess.
2) Uninspired music.
After FF6's truely wonderful music, FF7 was quite a letdown. FF6's music
creates many beautiful scenes; the Opera House and Edgar and Sabin in Figaro
Castle are just two examples. FF7 has only one great scene, you-know-who's
death. The FMVs totally eliminate the impact of the music.
Oh, and the Gold Saucer theme made my list of Most Annoying Songs
3) Confusing, sometimes non-existant storyline.
I keep hearing prople praising FF7's "deep storyline". Well, I must be a pretty
superficial person, because I found FF7's story lacking in detail and
cohesiveness. Like Lufia 2, much of the game is a series of "episodes" - why,
exactly, does Cloud and the rest have to go through that mess in the prison
under Gold Saucer? Much of FF7's "story" is simply determined by the world's
geography.
FF7's storyline is nearly non-existant from the time you get out of Midgar to
the time you finally catch up with Sepiroth near the Nothern Crater. All you do
is chase after Sepiroth and deal with obstacles that are thrown in your path.
4) Cloud.
Cloud is in no way fit to be the narrator of an RPG. A narrator should be like
Crono or Cecil; they should have no "dark secrets" in their past or other
problems coming between them and the player. Barett should have been the
character you couldn't get out of your party, as he is the only character that
never "lies" to the player. Imagine if Kain was the narrator of FF4 instead of
Cecil, and you'll get the idea.
5) Materia
The idea of Materia is good, but there should be some differences between the
characters other than just stats and weapons.
Not that I'll actually change anyone's mind, but I only know one person IRL
that likes FF7.
- Doug, He who does not drink Caffeine and hates Chocolate
I am:
A Nerd who says Ni (Yes, I really do say "Ni!")
A Hater of Barney the Dinosaur
A Final Fantasy Fanatic (even though FF7 was terrible)
A Magic: The Gathering Player
A Science Fiction and Fantasy Reader
A Cat Lover
A Confirmed Weirdo
A Defender of Secret of Evermore
A Proud Owner of a Huge-Ass .Sig
A Person With No Life (And Proud Of It!)
***
Enamel Feb 27 1997, 1:00 am
Square is by far my favorite company, but I have to say that I was worried
that the high budget and CD storage space might spoil them. It seems as
if the nightmare is coming true. I'm glad sales are going very
disappointingly in Japan because that may be enough of a knock to bring
Square back to their collective senses. Square thrived as a small company
on a budget. Now they are giant and are perhaps inevitably starting to
lose touch with what really made their games great, going for profit
instead. I just hope that these low sales can turn them around. It goes
to show that even the very best are not immune to greed. It's not that I
blame Square; I just hope for the best for them. About Enix: if Square
can't take the heat, you can bet Enix will fair even worse. Though maybe
Enix will be wise and take note of Square's failure with FF7 as they make
DQ7.
Sony, you may be able to buy off the very best companies in the business,
but you can't buy creativity, inspiration, or any of the real elements
that make Square games the best in the world. Sorry, Sony; there are just
some things even your kind of money cannot buy.
-Siegfried
***
Jason Varisco Feb 27 1997, 1:00 am
Why is everyone getting so riled up about this? This is more a case of
Square having too high of expectations.
Let's look at the facts:
1. FFVII is agreed to be a stellar game, by most REASONABLE people.
2. Square sold 2 million in about 3 days. That's about 1/2 to 2/5 of
the total PSX-owning,japanese public.
3. For Square to sell 4 million, it would have to sell FFVII at a
nearly 1:1 ratio with PSX owners.
Can you remember the last time a game has been sold to nearly half of a
systems owners? Granted, Ridge Racer and Mario 64, but that was because
of a lack of variety in software at release. That's a pretty amazing
feat for a game. I think the case here is Square foolishly
over-predicted the demand for its product. That's Square's fault, but
don't let it change the fact that FFVII is still selling leaps and
bounds over other software, and seems to be one hell of a game.
Varisc
***
Ian Kelley Feb 27 1997, 1:00 am
Landerholm <lande...@ucs.orst.edu> wrote:
>actually the only criticism of ff7 i have heard so far is that it is
>completely linear, with almost no plot deviation at all.
This is true: FF7 is the most linear FF game I can remember playing. (I
don't remember a heck of a lot about FF1, FF2j and FF3j) And it's true
that the plot is set in stone; no matter what you do, it will always be the
same every time through.
And here's a little more criticsm:
The plot is pretty bad too, it's basically a rehash of FF6's plot. The
battle system is also really clunky too...if this game takes you 50 hours
to beat, it will be because 35 of those hours are spent in battles that
would take you 15 hours in any other RPG. (The summon spell Knights of the
Round takes 1 minute 15 seconds to finish its animation!)
On the other hand:
The characters are really really good and have some cool twists to them,
there are tons of cool puzzles, and the mini-games are addicting; this game
would be worth the price for the motorcycle game alone!
After finishing the game and seeing basically everything to it, I can
possibly see why it could be doing badly in Japan. Although the eye/ear
candy is fantastic, there isn't a heck of a lot of substance to this game.
Don't get me wrong, it's still a good game, but I think Square could have
done a lot better. And considering how much they spent making this game,
selling 3 million copies could be just a little over breaking even.
--Ian
***
Katsunori Y. Mar 11 1999, 1:00 am
Squaresoft is DEAD. Thats all I can say. What's up with all these
Squaresoft games coming out now a days. they are just relying on a
technology and graphic and they lost the storyline. FF7 was like a
Graphic game. Story was ok but you just play it to see more Computer
Graphic Animated movie. Bushido Blade 1n 2 was good that it give a
realisticness to a fighting. Saga Frontier was a joke. It was short and
I thought in the end everyone will come together as one big story but
didn't. Chocobo Dungeon was cute and was good for a while but had no
purpose to the game. Einhinder was one of the worst game I ever seen. It
was soo bad I didn't even bught it. Musashiden was ok but you just
basicaly buy it to see the Demo disc. Parasite Eve and Xenogear had
awsome intro but story wise wasn't that good. This new Squaresoft game
coming out... which your in a tube and you just keep shooting.. that was
a joke. I am expecting the Racing RPG game... forgot the name.. was
something like... "Lagoon" I am hoping this game is better then what I
have seen so far. Game Quality just dropped with Squaresoft. Or maybe
other company made us relaized Squaresoft wasn't good as we image them
to be.
***
Some things never change...
***
FrostyDoom Feb 12 1998, 1:00 am
Yeah, that's right. FFVII makes me sick. It breaks all rules of decency. The
arrogant use of FMV ruins the entire experience. Plot thickening sequences
should be done in generally the same graphical format as the game play.
Otherwise the game has no cohesion. The story is diluted by shallow characters
who don't reach the standards that good RPG characters should reach(especially
FF characters). The load time makes the transition between playing periods
less meaningful. The music doesn't bring forth the emotion that a good RPG
depends on. All of the previous FF games are better than this piece of trash.
Sony's game industry will never survive if it doesn't realize that the quality
lies in the content of the game itself, not the level of technology used.
***
Bahamut Sep 26 1997, 12:00 am
Sean Daugherty wrote:
<snip>
> Hmmm... I don't think so. FF5 interwove character development and plot
> much more tightly than FF6. While playing FF6, I got the distinct
> feeling there was too much of a seperation between "character scenes"
> and "plot scenes". Locke and Celes got some great moments, but they were
> largely irrelevant to the plot, and, when they were, made little sense
> (Celes' incredible leaps of logic at the start of the WoR). The closest
> the game came to interweaving them, IMHO, was in Mobliz in the WoR. But
> I didn't like the flow, and it hurt the story.
This is exactly how I feel but I didn't realize it. My god, your
absolutly right! The story to FF6 sucks so much IMO because it really
has nothing to do with the story. I mean, edgar, sabin, everyone does
not really need to be in there. I've never noticed this at all. I
think the only persons story that really effects the game is terra's.
***
ALM Jan 15 1998, 1:00 am
Final Fantasy VII = Worst Game Ever Seen!!
Whipping a dead horse? Perhaps. I disagree, with that original poster ... it
wasn't the worst game ever made. But it was a pretty bad one. And for months
I had to rummage through the (IMHO) piles of undeserved glowing praise for
this game. Few people came out and said this sucker was crap, but there were
a few. And their numbers have increased a little over time. But, here I am,
school was cancelled today and I'd just like to put in MY two-cents.
1. Sub-standard music for a 32-bit system. I have a lot of difficulty
believing that there are people who could listen to, say, Castlevania: SotN,
and then listen to the overly-synthesized sounding screeches that make up the
music of FFVII, and still say that the sound in FFVII is great. Obviously,
the people saying this either have poor hearing, or are such SQUARE zealots
that, well . . . I won't get into that.
2. Mini-Games. What the hell was the POINT of all this nonsense?! There are
so many points in the game where the control changes to accomodate for
accomplishing one dumb little task or another. I think the most idiotic
example of this was just before Tifa jumps out of Junon and is saved by the
airship (you know, when you get into a slapping match with Scarlet?).
3. Cinematics. Only about a half hour or so of movies in this game? The fans
actually SAID this? Okay, FFVII fans are STUPID. There is a HELL of a lot
more than 30-minutes of movies in this game. Other times, these "playable
cinemas" are so linear that they may as well not be playable (the opening of
disc two, for example).
4. Ugly graphics. I'm sorry, but those squat characters in towns,
overworld, and all of the real-time rendered cinemas, with their massive
forearms are just hideous. Their appearance kills any sense of drama in the
game. (Oh, look, a baby Popeye is upset that the other baby Popeye in drag is
dead).
5. Combat. There are a lot of people that agree with me here. The combat
sytem is a joke. Fighting is usually the only real gameplay to be found in an
RPG. Lucky us, we get stuck with a lot of characters that have about the same
performance and special abilities (let's face it, most of the limit breaks do
nothing more than inflict damage one way or another ... ooh, big variety
there). These characters are practically all the same.
There, a usual defense of most FFVII-lovers is "people who bash FFVII never
support it". Well, I've supported it.
-- ALM,
***
Kathy Hupp Jun 20 1995, 12:00 am
Final Fantasy 2 has the BEST story line of all. I like FF2 better than FF3
by far. I think FF3 sucks compared to over all feel in FF2. FF2 was
simply, THE BEST game. How many games make you want to cry? Not very damn
many. FF3 did'nt come close. Still a very good game but no FF2 $) . Any
Ultima sucks rocks compared to FF2 if you ask me. Anyone out there agree
or differ?
Shane Hupp.
***
CronoDAS Dec 21 1998, 1:00 am
No, FF7 is the worst game Square ever made. After FF7 and Saga Frontier, all
Square games have become strictly rent-first.
Here's why FF7 is a 2 on a scale of 1 to 10:
1) Ugly graphics.
There's something about nearly all rendered graphics that makes me find it
ugly. I much prefer the look of hand-drawn games such as Tales of Destiny.
Additionally, the polygon characters look ridiculous. Their feet look like
hooves, and their elbows have 1/3 the diameter of the rest of their arms! Their
faces lack important features, like noses. FF7 is uglier than Quake.
Finally, the battle backgrounds are of low quality. Just stare at the battle
backgrounds in FF6; you will see a beautiful hand-drawn scenw, while FF7 has a
polygon-based mess.
2) Uninspired music.
After FF6's truely wonderful music, FF7 was quite a letdown. FF6's music
creates many beautiful scenes; the Opera House and Edgar and Sabin in Figaro
Castle are just two examples. FF7 has only one great scene, you-know-who's
death. The FMVs totally eliminate the impact of the music.
Oh, and the Gold Saucer theme made my list of Most Annoying Songs
3) Confusing, sometimes non-existant storyline.
I keep hearing prople praising FF7's "deep storyline". Well, I must be a pretty
superficial person, because I found FF7's story lacking in detail and
cohesiveness. Like Lufia 2, much of the game is a series of "episodes" - why,
exactly, does Cloud and the rest have to go through that mess in the prison
under Gold Saucer? Much of FF7's "story" is simply determined by the world's
geography.
FF7's storyline is nearly non-existant from the time you get out of Midgar to
the time you finally catch up with Sepiroth near the Nothern Crater. All you do
is chase after Sepiroth and deal with obstacles that are thrown in your path.
4) Cloud.
Cloud is in no way fit to be the narrator of an RPG. A narrator should be like
Crono or Cecil; they should have no "dark secrets" in their past or other
problems coming between them and the player. Barett should have been the
character you couldn't get out of your party, as he is the only character that
never "lies" to the player. Imagine if Kain was the narrator of FF4 instead of
Cecil, and you'll get the idea.
5) Materia
The idea of Materia is good, but there should be some differences between the
characters other than just stats and weapons.
Not that I'll actually change anyone's mind, but I only know one person IRL
that likes FF7.
- Doug, He who does not drink Caffeine and hates Chocolate
I am:
A Nerd who says Ni (Yes, I really do say "Ni!")
A Hater of Barney the Dinosaur
A Final Fantasy Fanatic (even though FF7 was terrible)
A Magic: The Gathering Player
A Science Fiction and Fantasy Reader
A Cat Lover
A Confirmed Weirdo
A Defender of Secret of Evermore
A Proud Owner of a Huge-Ass .Sig
A Person With No Life (And Proud Of It!)
***
Enamel Feb 27 1997, 1:00 am
Square is by far my favorite company, but I have to say that I was worried
that the high budget and CD storage space might spoil them. It seems as
if the nightmare is coming true. I'm glad sales are going very
disappointingly in Japan because that may be enough of a knock to bring
Square back to their collective senses. Square thrived as a small company
on a budget. Now they are giant and are perhaps inevitably starting to
lose touch with what really made their games great, going for profit
instead. I just hope that these low sales can turn them around. It goes
to show that even the very best are not immune to greed. It's not that I
blame Square; I just hope for the best for them. About Enix: if Square
can't take the heat, you can bet Enix will fair even worse. Though maybe
Enix will be wise and take note of Square's failure with FF7 as they make
DQ7.
Sony, you may be able to buy off the very best companies in the business,
but you can't buy creativity, inspiration, or any of the real elements
that make Square games the best in the world. Sorry, Sony; there are just
some things even your kind of money cannot buy.
-Siegfried
***
Jason Varisco Feb 27 1997, 1:00 am
Why is everyone getting so riled up about this? This is more a case of
Square having too high of expectations.
Let's look at the facts:
1. FFVII is agreed to be a stellar game, by most REASONABLE people.
2. Square sold 2 million in about 3 days. That's about 1/2 to 2/5 of
the total PSX-owning,japanese public.
3. For Square to sell 4 million, it would have to sell FFVII at a
nearly 1:1 ratio with PSX owners.
Can you remember the last time a game has been sold to nearly half of a
systems owners? Granted, Ridge Racer and Mario 64, but that was because
of a lack of variety in software at release. That's a pretty amazing
feat for a game. I think the case here is Square foolishly
over-predicted the demand for its product. That's Square's fault, but
don't let it change the fact that FFVII is still selling leaps and
bounds over other software, and seems to be one hell of a game.
Varisc
***
Ian Kelley Feb 27 1997, 1:00 am
Landerholm <lande...@ucs.orst.edu> wrote:
>actually the only criticism of ff7 i have heard so far is that it is
>completely linear, with almost no plot deviation at all.
This is true: FF7 is the most linear FF game I can remember playing. (I
don't remember a heck of a lot about FF1, FF2j and FF3j) And it's true
that the plot is set in stone; no matter what you do, it will always be the
same every time through.
And here's a little more criticsm:
The plot is pretty bad too, it's basically a rehash of FF6's plot. The
battle system is also really clunky too...if this game takes you 50 hours
to beat, it will be because 35 of those hours are spent in battles that
would take you 15 hours in any other RPG. (The summon spell Knights of the
Round takes 1 minute 15 seconds to finish its animation!)
On the other hand:
The characters are really really good and have some cool twists to them,
there are tons of cool puzzles, and the mini-games are addicting; this game
would be worth the price for the motorcycle game alone!
After finishing the game and seeing basically everything to it, I can
possibly see why it could be doing badly in Japan. Although the eye/ear
candy is fantastic, there isn't a heck of a lot of substance to this game.
Don't get me wrong, it's still a good game, but I think Square could have
done a lot better. And considering how much they spent making this game,
selling 3 million copies could be just a little over breaking even.
--Ian
***
Katsunori Y. Mar 11 1999, 1:00 am
Squaresoft is DEAD. Thats all I can say. What's up with all these
Squaresoft games coming out now a days. they are just relying on a
technology and graphic and they lost the storyline. FF7 was like a
Graphic game. Story was ok but you just play it to see more Computer
Graphic Animated movie. Bushido Blade 1n 2 was good that it give a
realisticness to a fighting. Saga Frontier was a joke. It was short and
I thought in the end everyone will come together as one big story but
didn't. Chocobo Dungeon was cute and was good for a while but had no
purpose to the game. Einhinder was one of the worst game I ever seen. It
was soo bad I didn't even bught it. Musashiden was ok but you just
basicaly buy it to see the Demo disc. Parasite Eve and Xenogear had
awsome intro but story wise wasn't that good. This new Squaresoft game
coming out... which your in a tube and you just keep shooting.. that was
a joke. I am expecting the Racing RPG game... forgot the name.. was
something like... "Lagoon" I am hoping this game is better then what I
have seen so far. Game Quality just dropped with Squaresoft. Or maybe
other company made us relaized Squaresoft wasn't good as we image them
to be.
***
Some things never change...
