Why would I put a guard in front of a door when he can do his job so much more effectively from inside a treasure chest?
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FINAL FANTASY Community Thread: XV Mainline Entries and Counting
- Thread starter Kagari
- Start date
Why would I put a guard in front of a door when he can do his job so much more effectively from inside a treasure chest?
It's got the element of surprise, at least.
Element of surprise means so little, though. There came a point in The After Years where I seriously stopped and asked how Cecil, who, in addition to being King of the World, had subdued Dragon Gods and Embodiments of Hatred, could let so many monsters sneak up on him. When every other encounter is a "surprise" is it even a surprise anymore?
Hey, does anyone know if the FF9 Chocobo sidequest is worth the absurdly awful amount of time it takes to do? It would not be so bad if my skill or intellect were in some way employed, but since whether or not I get a Chocograph is down to dumb luck and really, really bad odds, I was thinking I might just go and finish the game instead. It's kind of bad that the Gold Chocobo quest from FF7 has been reduced drastically in time over the years but that there is no way to make the quest any less awful in FFIX.
And now is the perfect chance for me to say that, as much grief as I'm giving FFIX in this thread, I'm still enjoying the game. It's a good game and in many ways the culmination of the entire series before it began mixing things up design wise with X and XII and before the horrors that are known as XIII and XIII-2. IX is a good game that just has one or two things that feel very dated, or perhaps I have simply lost patience for.
tiggerkiddo
Member
I hear an ancient evil dragon works just as well.
EDIT: The Chocobo quest among other things, nets you Steiner's Ragnarok sword which teaches you Shock...you know, that ability Beatrix totally owns you with. You also get to earn Zidane's best weapon and you get some nice armor too. Plus it helps if you want to get the best ranking from that guy who totally isn't some crazed swordsman from Final Fantasy V. And you get a gold chocobo.
Professor Beef
Banned
It's worth it, but you also have to pay attention at each location because the Moogle there will tell you if there's any more Chocographs to be found. I'm assuming that's why you're still going at it.
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Chocograph
There's that stuff, and there's the Dead Pepper locations. If you don't think any of that is worth obtaining, then it's safe to say that you should just beat the game.
WeaponKnight
Member
Choco can dig some of the best equipment in the game, including Zidane's and Steiner's best weapons.
I think IX's chocobo quest is the best in the series, heh.
Meccanical
Member
You are CORRECT sir.
But the odds of finding a chocograph are so astronomically low! If I didn't have to play hot and cold again and again, maybe, but uuuuugh.
tiggerkiddo
Member
But the music is so good, doesn't that help?
Not on the two hundred and ninth go around it doesn't.
It's the only bad thing about the minigame though imo
other than that, it's one of the best long sidequests in the series, and possible in the jrpg genre
tiggerkiddo
Member
You really have some awful luck...I remember being able to dig up most of the chocographs long before I ever got to that many tries...
Yes Cloud isn't supposed to be cool but that doesn't mean he can't have cool moments. I mean, falling through the roof has nothing to do with being cool, it's just them trying to make players go "ooohhh that's exactly what Cloud did!" but it actually only cheapens it.
I agree. My point was that things like falling through the church or jumping on the train weren't needed for Zack's character. They were originally Cloud's.
Oh well that's good. I liked the animation but man the retcons...
It can be that ridiculously unlucky. My friend had that many tries too and even at one point got me and others to just dig while he was busy. I hate Hot and Cold with a passion.
Meccanical
Member
tiggerkiddo
Member
I've certainly had some days where Hot and Cold wasn't very hot for me but in the end, I was able to get them...though it does help to do the digging for the treasures before the Mist comes out.
I don't really know if it was intentional. He's basically catatonic and people with jenovas cells mimic other people. Poor guy just doesn't know who he is.
I really like cloud. He thinks he's something and he finds out he isn't. Seemingly minor but difficult memories from his youth are the reasons for his sadness. Then weak cloud ends up conquering his mental demon in sephoroth in the end. One of the most difficult things for him to do is look his weakness in the face and embrace it. I think a lot of people can relate to that and that's in part why the game is/was so popular.
Meccanical
Member
Don't tell gaming side that, lest you be bombarded with the words "whiny" and "emo".
I think one of the reasons I like FF7 so much is because all of the characters deal with very real and relatable mental issues yet aren't bores about it.
I think one of the reasons I like FF7 so much is because all of the characters deal with very real and relatable mental issues yet aren't bores about it.
Eh, it happens with every FF character here. While I know you're not a fan of VIII and it's cast, some people just look for reasons to hate them. People make stuff up about Cloud and Squall all the time like saying Squall's an asshole or emo and with Cloud they'll say he is, as you said, whiny or emo.
I guess being someone who has enjoyed every mainline FF(I like to pretend Fang and Vanille were the leads of XIII) it kind of sucks always seeing people shit on one FF to make their favourite look better.
It doesn't cheapen it, it enhances it. Obviously this is all personal like or dislike, but you have to accept a certain degree of coincidence or convenience in any narrative. If anything, Zack and Cloud's impossible similarities ENHANCE their relationship in FF7 retroactively, as it adds credibility and credence to Aerith's incredibly fast falling for him. Especially as it was under 90s Jrpg writing when they were still experimenting with more than just "chase the cackling villain." Aerith didn't have time to really explore and work out exactly what was the deal since she
swooned
It's very intentional--that's whole point of Cloud's character. He lacked the willpower and mental strength from childhood until present day. That's the entire purpose of the subconscious scene--the player actually plays the hero's journey to finally accepting himself and his past. That's how he BECOMES the hero he was just playing at all along. The fact he WAS playing at it is part of the reason why Sephiroth is able to break him halfway through.
Which is why missions should never, ever depend on luck. This is why the Mysterious Figure is a terribly designed boss fight.
I dunno. On the one hand, we find out that Cloud's Cool Guy act is a fake, but on the other hand, Endgame Cloud was still a cool guy who enjoyed spending his time raising and racing
There was a lot of upbeat stuff to Cloud's character (before it got sort of shifted into Zack's) that would've been nice to have stick around. His sarcastic side, in particular, is something I miss. The last time he even said anything sarcastic was like, KH2, I think.
Black Door
Banned
I think I had a harder time figuring out where the chocographs were supposed to take me rather than finding them outright. The joys of low-resolution TVs 
I'm guessing the CL was supposed to have downloadable monster arena fights like in XIII-2, but they probably scrapped it because DLC systems were in their infancy back then and not worth the added expense to smooth out distribution
I'm guessing the CL was supposed to have downloadable monster arena fights like in XIII-2, but they probably scrapped it because DLC systems were in their infancy back then and not worth the added expense to smooth out distribution
I guess I never thought cloud was weak per se, just that his ability never matched his ambitions. Maybe it's because those ambitions where never really his in the sense that he wanted to impress other people and be accepted not to join Soldier out of some passionate goal.. I think the sarcastic etc cloud is himself, and the only reason he was able to be a hero in the end was because of mako/jenova cells stuff not just because he accepted his past and present.
I really love that whole bit with Tifa in the lifestream. It's really powerful and well done I think.
I think the sarcastic Cloud we see at the end of the game is really him. Post-Life Stream Cloud, basically is him. But not exactly "Cloud before Crisis Core cost him his personality" since I think that playing Hero long enough rubbed off on him. The game's events changed him, so that when he no longer was faking it, he stepped up to the plate and did what he was supposed to do.
I really think Cloud and the rest of the cast of FF7 were just fine. It's not popular outside of FF-centered stuff to say, because Post-FF7 Cloud has become the dominant portrayal, and that's what people think of when you say "Cloud was a good character".
Ah ok. I've never played any of the post ffvii cloud stuff before, just seen some pictures and stuff.
I just replayed the game, so the original cloud from the original game is what I had in mind. He's probably the character I can most relate to out of any of the ff games.
Yeah OG Cloud is fine. He's sort of worthless in Tactics but his personality is only sort of half bad. It wasn't till KH1 that he kinda tanked into the Cloud we see in AC.
It's been too long since I played Dissidia to remember how his personality goes in those games. He does challenge Chaos to a one on one, though, so that was pretty ballin'.
tiggerkiddo
Member
Best battle theme
That doesn't make sense...for him to be a hero because of the cells is the complete opposite of becoming a hero via mental strength, i.e. the scene with Tifa in his subconscious.
Saying it was all the cells completely negates all of that.
It's also part of my problem with Advent Children's plot. Like, the main point of that final battle in FF7 for me was
Cloud killing Sephiroth, without any enhancements/Zack powers/whatever. No Jenova cells either.
It's a good thing AC was pretty, 'cuz it wasn't a good plot at all.
No what i mean that accepting his weakness wouldn't have been enough to become a hero. It's not completely the cells/mako, but they were both necessary.
I also liked how he sort of stopped trusting himself around the black materia part of the game.
Its funny when I played the game before, I thought he sort of willed himself to be this hero. Playing it again I realized how screwed up he was from all the testing they did on him. His brain was totally wiped and the jenova cells probably put him back together by putting zack stuff in there. It was less that he was trying to be something he wasn't (although there was probably some subconscious will of his to forget his weakness and that he made it to SOLDIER) but more that he was just a complete train wreck that sort of organically turned into what he was.
Bleah. glad I never played that game. The whole point of the ending was not that it was a physical battle, but that Cloud defeated the mental ghost of sephiroth who had been stalking him pretty much the whole game. Yeah part of it was jenova cells or whatever.
It's an image i've kind of kept with me actually. I've had people in my head like that before and it's an image that always comes to mind for me.
Meccanical
Member
They should make an FFVI compilation next, you guys will love it!
You mean you don't like Sephiroth's role being undermined with Project S, W and G in a retcon?
(I thought the CG Angeal vs Gackt vs Sephy cutscene was neat. That's about it.)
Edit: Oh, and the whole subplot with the fanclubs was funny to me!)
Whats up with the 'Loveless daiishho' they say all the time. It's so stupid.
Also I kind of think jaggy polygon sephiroth was better than ultra HD sephiroth. I liked the way he looked in the original game FMV when he takes jenova from the reactor.
The only person I really like in the rereleases is barett. He looks like a human being instead of Mr. T.
Professor Beef
Banned
I, for one, think they should include Gackt in FF4. It's not like you can make the game any worse.
I need to replay Dirge one of these days to remind myself what the characterization for the other characters was. I can't say I care for the implied Vincent x Yuffie pairing that game was going for, but I remember liking Cid and maaaybe Reeve a fair bit.
...Looking back, I don't think I've ever played Dirge on Normal. Hard is easy enough as it is.
...Looking back, I don't think I've ever played Dirge on Normal. Hard is easy enough as it is.
I cannot think of anything good to say about Red Sephiroth. My dad played Crisis Core, too, and about all he could say good about the guy was "he's got a neat sword." Which would be about it.
Genesis is quite possibly the worst character in the series. As I said earlier, I'd take Lightning over him ANY day.
General Leo and General Celes used to hang out with a guy named Oceanus Exodus, and he was 3/4 Esper and Daryl was an awesome Magitek Knight who later became disgusted and became an airship pilot before meeting a young Relm and telling her to follow her dreams, thus passing on her magical powers before being involved in the set up to the Narshe Incident.
Playable characters are General Leo and General Leo and General Leo. Expect a meaningless and implausible retcon from Pre-Shadow Shadow, a younger and cockier Cyan, and for Mog and Terra to have had meaningful relationships with General Leo that are never brought up.
UGH.
FUCK
Hear me out here, but Genesis at least has one more chance at being a salvagable character in a post-Dirge sequel, since we don't know how he's like after pretty much all of FF7/AC/Dirge goes down. He could rise from his coccoon to be the villain we deserve.
....It's a long shot, I know, but he'd still be a fresher face than Lightning AGAIN.
....It's a long shot, I know, but he'd still be a fresher face than Lightning AGAIN.
Meccanical
Member
Someone should just cast X-zone on Genesis so he can be jettisoned into the Void and no one will hear about him again.
Seriously though, I hope the compilation never comes back. Give another FF a compilation. Compilate VI, it hasn't gotten a sequel that completely missed the point of the original yet.
Seriously though, I hope the compilation never comes back. Give another FF a compilation. Compilate VI, it hasn't gotten a sequel that completely missed the point of the original yet.
Someone should just cast X-zone on Genesis so he can be jettisoned into the Void and no one will hear about him again.
Seriously though, I hope the compilation never comes back. Give another FF a compilation. Compilate VI, it hasn't gotten a sequel that completely missed the point of the original yet.
The After Years didn't completely miss the point of FF4. Mostly because half the game was retreading FF4's plot anyway.
The point of FF4 is that Cecil is the King of the World and everyone else is his bitch.
tiggerkiddo
Member
Am I crazy in thinking Heresy from VIII and Castle Pandemonium from IX sound to bloody similar?
Is the pandemonium ix similar to the one in ii?
Nah, they've got a similar vibe, now that you mention it.
It's more of a shout out than anything. FF9 references the NES games a LOT. The villain's name is
Garland
Castle Pandemonium
flies the Invincible.
tiggerkiddo
Member
Okay yeah I see what you're saying...the vibe is similar but they do sound a bit different now that I've gotten the chance to hear them back to back.
On another note, what is everyone's most favorite location from a Final Fantasy game? For me it would be this:
Zanarkand Ruins-FF X
Now I also think the Zanarkand you see in the opening is all very very awesome and the art of it has been one of my all time favorites but for now, we'll talk about the ruins, I think it's one of the most lovely places in a FF game, with the light of the Unsent floating around, the lovely night sky and the fact it plays the greatest music in a FF game ever, throughout the fights and just walking around. I acquired my love of level grinding starting here where I would run up and down the road for hours just because I thought it was just that good. I'm excited to play this in HD and no other location in a RPG comes close to this.
On another note, what is everyone's most favorite location from a Final Fantasy game? For me it would be this:
Zanarkand Ruins-FF X
Now I also think the Zanarkand you see in the opening is all very very awesome and the art of it has been one of my all time favorites but for now, we'll talk about the ruins, I think it's one of the most lovely places in a FF game, with the light of the Unsent floating around, the lovely night sky and the fact it plays the greatest music in a FF game ever, throughout the fights and just walking around. I acquired my love of level grinding starting here where I would run up and down the road for hours just because I thought it was just that good. I'm excited to play this in HD and no other location in a RPG comes close to this.
Favourite location is Balamb Garden. So much to do and absolutely gorgeous looking. Oh and it flies.
I dont think it enhanced it in a positive way but fair enough.
The thing is EVERY ff game is a shout out to its predecessors. That's why I don't get why people thing ff9 is special in that regard. I played it over a decade ago and didn't find anything really nostalgic about it compared to say ffvii.
My favorite location of the moment is the forgotten Capitol in ff7. Such a cool place and dat music.
Professor Beef
Banned
The difference is that FF9 is deliberate with the callbacks since that is the game's intention as an anniversary game, while with the other games it's just sharing a naming theme or similar spells.
I guess I have different nostalgia for the series than the creators because cutesy chibi white Mage cloaks and straw hat black mages weren't things I would have chosen. They were things I enjoyed despite the appearance. Why not have the bad ass post class change models appear?