hydrophilic attack
Member
i'm skipping persona due to its battle system
i'm a longtime fan and i'm loving this news tbqh
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Final Fantasy VII Remake: Nomura Confirms Combat is Action Based
- Thread starter Exentryk
- Start date
i'm skipping persona due to its battle system
i'm a longtime fan and i'm loving this news tbqh
ArkhamFantasy
Member
Almost none of the problems plaguing Versus are relevant to VII remake.
Versus didnt go into full production until 2011 (5 years after the announcement lol), Square Enix (like most developers) were struggling with the transition to HD, they had a bad engine, they had to deal with the Cell architecture, etc etc.
ethomaz
Banned
And they still delivered 3 FF games on PS3 after 2010...
These points you list has nothing to do with why Vesus XIII didn't live.
KyanMehwulfe
Member
I think I'd still have preferred a faster, smoother turn-based system, something that's got the pacing of a FF X-2 or Suikoden 2...
But, I mean, the combat of the original was probably not even in my top few reasons why it was an important game to me. If they nail the atmosphere and mood, that general tension of the mystery; the environment art; the materia system; the music; the story and cutscenes; and, the general overworld/sidequest content (the chocobo breeding, the motorbike riding, just the general exploration and discovery of extra content or minigames, etc) -- then I'd probably be OK with any style of combat.
But, I mean, the combat of the original was probably not even in my top few reasons why it was an important game to me. If they nail the atmosphere and mood, that general tension of the mystery; the environment art; the materia system; the music; the story and cutscenes; and, the general overworld/sidequest content (the chocobo breeding, the motorbike riding, just the general exploration and discovery of extra content or minigames, etc) -- then I'd probably be OK with any style of combat.
Petrae
Member
Fuck that. Square-Enix isn't getting dime one from me, even if this thing has the "FF7" designation. It was a deal breaker for me from the moment the remake was rumored to be jettisoning the original's turn-based system because reasons. Reading this confirmation just solidifies my stance on the game.
If Square-Enix decides that it wants to make all future Final Fantasy games action crap, that's fine. The series has been dead to me since FFXII 11 years ago, and I stopped giving Square-Enix money for Final Fantasy games after buying and subsequently selling FFXIII after less than 12 hours. Electing to poison older FF games by "reimagining" them as action RPGs is a bit harder to swallow.
finalflame
Banned
Good, turn-based in 2017 would be disgusting tbh.
ethomaz
Banned
Yeap like Persona 5... ohhhhh wait.
Shadow Hog
Member
I'd say I'm disappointed, but frankly I already knew this was going to be the case a year or so ago and I aired my grievances then; I'm not sure it's all out of my system, but at the same time there's not really much point in complaining all over again. I've just accepted that this is FFVII: The Action Game now more than a more straight FFVII remake, and fine, whatever, maybe it'll still be good. Not really at all what I'd be after for a game with the name of "FFVII Remake", but it could still make somebody happy. Maybe that somebody will turn out to be me. I mean, I greatly enjoyed FFXIV:ARR's combat, and that's real-time (though more cooldown-based than I'm expecting FFVII to be), so who can say?
I see the whole "turn-based combat is inherently outdated in TYOL [year]!" crowd is out in full force, though, and that's as disappointing as ever. It's fine if you prefer action-based combat systems, but c'mon, it's still a valid game design. This whole thing strikes me as similar to that time major publishers all decided at the same time that the horror genre was inherently outdated, deciding to just turn their horror franchises into straight-up action games, until some indie horror games proved them all wrong by selling like hotcakes, and suddenly you have situations like Resident Evil going back from RE6's divisive focus on action to a clearer focus on horror with RE7, to critical acclaim. If there were any gameplay aspect I could say felt outdated about the original myself, random battles might be it. Even then, that's only because I've played various other RPGs that had other systems of starting battles and preferred them, like Chrono Trigger or Earthbound - both of which are still turn-based, note - and that's more about my own personal tastes than being objectively outdated or anything.
Worse still, though, are the people crowing at others who are disappointed the game isn't turn-based. For as annoying as you might find people complaining that it's not turn-based to be, going full-on insufferable yourself is probably not the appropriate response, maybe? Like, I'm happy you've got yet another action RPG to sink your teeth into, but pooh-poohing others who'd hoped for something else (regardless of how silly those hopes were when the action focus has been clear for this long) just seems super shitty to me.
I see the whole "turn-based combat is inherently outdated in TYOL [year]!" crowd is out in full force, though, and that's as disappointing as ever. It's fine if you prefer action-based combat systems, but c'mon, it's still a valid game design. This whole thing strikes me as similar to that time major publishers all decided at the same time that the horror genre was inherently outdated, deciding to just turn their horror franchises into straight-up action games, until some indie horror games proved them all wrong by selling like hotcakes, and suddenly you have situations like Resident Evil going back from RE6's divisive focus on action to a clearer focus on horror with RE7, to critical acclaim. If there were any gameplay aspect I could say felt outdated about the original myself, random battles might be it. Even then, that's only because I've played various other RPGs that had other systems of starting battles and preferred them, like Chrono Trigger or Earthbound - both of which are still turn-based, note - and that's more about my own personal tastes than being objectively outdated or anything.
Worse still, though, are the people crowing at others who are disappointed the game isn't turn-based. For as annoying as you might find people complaining that it's not turn-based to be, going full-on insufferable yourself is probably not the appropriate response, maybe? Like, I'm happy you've got yet another action RPG to sink your teeth into, but pooh-poohing others who'd hoped for something else (regardless of how silly those hopes were when the action focus has been clear for this long) just seems super shitty to me.
Why? I don't get this. You realize they have the technology now so that it doesn't look like two sides lining up, right? (See FFXIII) And they have the knowledge to do something ATB/Turn Based that's fast and fun (See something like Persona, SMT, or Bravely Default).
What specifically about ATB/Turn Based makes it not good in 2017? I genuinely don't understand this. Yes the exact system in FF7 probably wouldn't work but no one's asking for that really.
shark sandwich
tenuously links anime, pedophile and incels
So did Square-Enix just shoot themselves in the foot?
Personally I think just about anything would be better than VII's bland, repetitive, challenge-free combat.
Personally I think just about anything would be better than VII's bland, repetitive, challenge-free combat.
My worry is that they go with FFXV's blander, more repetitive and insanely more challenge-free combat, though.
The FFVII Remake development team had nothing to do with FFXV's combat.
ethomaz
Banned
In a perfect world...
- Add a 4th character to party
- Add new materia with new magic, summon and skills
- Add new limit breakers
- Add new combined limit breakers
- Add new weapons and gears with specific slots to materia (e.g. 2 green + 1 yellow + 1 red)
- Add new cities and dungeons
- Add new enemies and boses
- Add new playable characters
There are a lot of things to do for a FFVII Remake.
- Add a 4th character to party
- Add new materia with new magic, summon and skills
- Add new limit breakers
- Add new combined limit breakers
- Add new weapons and gears with specific slots to materia (e.g. 2 green + 1 yellow + 1 red)
- Add new cities and dungeons
- Add new enemies and boses
- Add new playable characters
There are a lot of things to do for a FFVII Remake.
Well sure, but the director definitely had a hand in XV. How much of the battle system was part of his vision, though, who knows.
hydrophilic attack
Member
xiii is not turn-based. it's a command rpg, yes, but characters don't wait their turn to execute input commands so it's real-time
ffiv to ffix atb-style I combat is just mindless AND slow as fuck
it's ok to have a mindless system, if it requires reflexes, and it's ok to be slow if the game is not completely mindless and enables interesting tactical situations (this is why the system in ffx is fine even though it's slow-paced turn-based
but the combination of slow and mindless is not welcome in 2017 imho
So if the series has been dead to you for 11 years, why are you posting here
NoctisVsStar
Member
I've been trying to say this but someone always pops up with XV.
Warp Strike, team attacks and weapon switching are basically the extent of it.
If anything, you should look at Kingdom Hearts. Chances are there'll be more similarities with that than FFXV.
Jawmuncher
Member
Have to say I agree. I didn't mind FFXV, but you could abuse it pretty easily. I went to the final base underleveld with a ton of potions and just fought the two mechs with continually healing until I won.
hydrophilic attack
Member
all of these can be done with an action battle system
Thought this was obvious after the PSX trailer.
Older footage looks closer to Kingdom Hearts and what we've seen from FFVIIR
Older footage looks closer to Kingdom Hearts and what we've seen from FFVIIR
XIII uses an ATB like FFVII. It's just as "real time." My point though was against a lot of people that seem to think ATB/Turn based games have to have people waiting on their sides. They don't anymore. I was more referencing the visuals with that.
Personally I found FFIV through IX to have way more tactical situations in even the first 10 hours than XV had the entire game. That's not to say an action RPG can't have those tactical situations. ATB/Turn Based games don't have to be mindless. Go play the Bravely games or SMT/Persona.
You're basically saying ATB/Turn Based doesn't work in 2017 because a few games were easy for you...even though there exists other ATB/Turn Based RPGs that weren't. The common denominator here seems to be that FF is easier than other RPGs not that ATB/Turn Based are easy.
While KH is better than XV, I still really don't prefer it at all to older systems or even FF7 as it exists right now. The main thing I want is more control over 2/3 of my fucking party. That was alright in KH because I really don't give a shit about Donald and Goofy and treated them as...whatever. But if you're giving me a full story RPG with serious characters and I can't control my fucking party I'm going to be angry. Especially if it's a remake of FFVII which had that ability. Gambit type system or bust.
ethomaz
Banned
Nope... most but not all.
Vincent Grayson
Member
All of those things absolutely could be done in an action-based system.
Granted, most of them won't. Not because of the combat, but because they're adapting a massive game, and I cannot see them digging around for *more* enemies and monsters and dungeons to put in there.
Which can't be added?
roflwaffles
Member
Feel free to do so.
I've played FF7 in the last year, and although the battle system is fine, it feels severely limited in modern times and isn't what I love about the game.
As long as they nail the atmosphere and the characters, I'm fine with whatever battle system they implement.
ethomaz
Banned
The 4th controllable character for example... AI is suck a dumb feature in action-RPGs... it is preferable to be solo.
afternoon delight
Member
I cannot comment on consoles, but on PC games using it have provided some of the best games every single year.
hydrophilic attack
Member
The system in XIII is not the same as in VII.
In VII, characters wait their turn and execute commands one at a time. In XIII all enemies and characters can execute attacks at the same time and commands are executed ASAP after they have been input. This brings in an element of requiring reflexes for optimal play, which was not present in VII, making the game a lot more engaging
Turn-based games are interesting when they invite planning and predicting future moves. Games like Final Fantasy Tactics and FFX which display the turn order and display how your moves will affect the turn order allow for interesting tactical considerations to be made by the player. I haven't played every turn-based RPG in the world so I can't speak for all of them. But I have played every turn-based mainline Final Fantasy, and have found that only one out of ten had an interesting battle system. In other words, the track record for turn-based Final Fantasy games isn't great
Have you ever played a Tales game? That can be added, and it can work.
I'm fine if they gave it a gambit-like system, the ability to pause and issue a command, plus the ability to swap characters on the fly.
Basically if they took the systems around Dragon Age Origins/FFXII but made the playable character more "action-y" like Kingdom Hearts, that'd be pretty rad actually and I'd probably like that system. Unfortunately all these companies seem to be going back on good programmable AI systems...
Well I've played a ton of turn based/ATB-like systems and the track record for them is much better for me than action-based ones. And even within the FF series they're 0/1 for action based ones, so...
Professor Beef
Banned
Tales of Berseria does 4 human players just fine.
spazchicken
Member
I like FFXV but the combat had zero strategy and was pretty brain dead compared to a turned based game. It was a bad Devil May Cry at best.
With that said it still managed to be fun due to everything else that surrounded it.
So I guess I can live with an action FFVIIR. I've already accepted that people would rather let half the game play itself while they mash buttons, rather than to have to make decisions
I'm just happy the game will exist.
With that said it still managed to be fun due to everything else that surrounded it.
So I guess I can live with an action FFVIIR. I've already accepted that people would rather let half the game play itself while they mash buttons, rather than to have to make decisions
I'm just happy the game will exist.
hydrophilic attack
Member
I thought the discussion between the two of us was about turn-based vs real time and not command-based vs action-based. It's true that they have only released one action-based mainline Final Fantasy (XV, for which I personally can't assess whether it was successful or not because I haven't had time to play it yet) but they have released three main-line active time Final Fantasy games in XII, XIII and XV, even though two of them were command-based
ethomaz
Banned
Yes... it is a single controlled character game.
Another single controlled character game.
BTW a bad battle system even for action JRPG standards.
Yeah basically, why can't we all just get along, still can't believe it's getting made
They already confirmed that all party characters are playable, you literally see them controlling Barret in the gameplay trailer.
So many people seem unaware of this I don't understand why...
There's really not terribly much difference between the full on ATB and XII system and I don't think some of us naysayers would mind what that difference is. You seem to be saying if enemies and your party can attack at once, then it's command based? If so, then that's a change that I think is fine. I'm not entirely sure I separated that from ATB. It's an evolution of ATB. To me XII and XIII are evolutions of ATB. XV is an ARPG.
LOL, exactly what I thought.
I mean, the game was clearly going to have a more action-oriented battle system from the get-go. I just wish Square in general would move away from the DBZ-esque high-speed, warp-attack, hold O to win battles and try something more like Star Ocean 2 or 3.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
I look forward to seeing you in the launch OT for the game.