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[Yarbskoo]

they've already said they're not going with this direction with cloud.

http://www.siliconera.com/2017/02/2...kes-voicing-main-story-pretty-much-completed/

As long as they preserve his smug indifference. That's the important thing.

you make people think that you're going to enter every FFVII thread from now on and keep bothering people about the fact that your dreams were not fulfilled.

Maybe not every thread. But this specific thread is about a big change to a huge part of the original game, and I don't think I shouldn't be allowed to say "this sucks" just because the original game hasn't been completely George Lucas'd out of existence yet.

EDIT: Oh boy, you guys gotta slow down I can't keep up.

It isn't relevant. Like, on a factual level, these two things are not comparable.

This game is a complete remake, built from the ground up. And you compared it to Perfect Dark XBLA, Mario 64 DS and Ocarina of Time 3DS. No, that's not the same thing. Not remotely.

I would prefer turn based battles too. But I also realize it's 2017 and that's a hard sell. I also realize that you can switch between characters and we haven't freaking played it so already judging the game so harshly is just silly.

I know it's not the same thing as Ocarina of Time 3D.

I just wish it was.

Again with this No True Scotsman bullshit

I put that in quotes because people who like Final Fantasy VII don't all want the same things.

You'd think this would be the case as simple as it sounds, but people were also still hella up in arms over Tidus and Yuna's face in the FFX remaster.

Point being some changes are probably more significant than others, but it's not nearly a binary division of 'ok' and 'not ok' as far as general consensus is concerned, or at least whatever an approximation is in as diverse a fanbase as the one Final Fantasy has.

Yeah, I get that, and I think I would also have preferred they just found a way to use the original high quality models through the whole game instead of making new ones.

Still, I would have thought that a more conservative remake would generally be more well received than what is essentially an entirely new game that brings with it a lot of expectations.

 

[Metal B]

So if somebody makes a remake of game, they first thing the throw out of it's the gameplay part. It's very sad and says a lot about a company, the fans and the industry.

 

[Professor Beef]

Maybe not every thread. But this specific thread is about a big change to a huge part of the original game, and I don't think I shouldn't be allowed to say "this sucks" just because the original game hasn't been completely George Lucas'd out of existence yet.

such hyperbole

 

[ZeoVGM]

So if somebody makes a remake of game, they first thing the throw out of its it gameplay. It's very sad and say a lot about a company, the fans and the industry.

What does it say exactly?

 

[Fitts]

No, you didn't. You wanted a remaster.

This is literally a remake.

Not to split hairs, but this is more of a reimagining. Remakes tend to stick pretty close to the original. Reimaginings take a few core bits and overhaul the rest. Completely changing a critical pillar like the battle system betrays what the original game was in a significant way.

 

[Inuhanyou]

So if somebody makes a remake of game, they first thing the throw out of it's the gameplay part. It's very sad and says a lot about a company, the fans and the industry.

FF7's expanded material has not been turn based since the original game. If anything this is just par the course honestly.

Nomura always was partial to action games and they feel this can make the game feel new and fresh in a way. You should give it a chance and let them show how they will implement it.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Not to split hairs, but this is more of a reimagining. Remakes tend to stick pretty close to the original. Reimaginings take a few core bits and overhaul the rest. Completely changing a critical pillar like the battle system betrays what the original game was in a significant way.

Reimagining falls under the same general definition of remake. There is no real standard for what a remake is.

Halloween 2010 is a remake and is nothing like the OG movie. On the other hand some people confuse game remasters with remakes, and when you add new graphical assets onto older games, the line becomes blurrier like with Halo 1/2 Anniversary or Gear of War Ultimate edition even if everything else stays the same.

 

[ZeoVGM]

I know it's not the same thing as Ocarina of Time 3D.

I just wish it was.

So you wanted the same game, basically an enhanced port, and nothing more.

You wanted something that absolutely everyone understood would not be the case if Square ever did a remake of VII.

 

[Yarbskoo]

such hyperbole

You can still buy FF7 and play it on a modern machine.

You can't buy the original Star Wars on Blu Ray.

Which part is hyperbole?

So you wanted the same game, basically an enhanced port, and nothing more.

You wanted something that absolutely everyone understood would not be the case if Square ever did a remake of VII.

Square managed something a lot closer for FF4.

But yeah, I never expected that for VII. There was too much hype and they waited too long. That doesn't mean I can't ask for it anyway.

 

[Inuhanyou]

So you wanted the same game, basically an enhanced port, and nothing more.

You wanted something that absolutely everyone understood would not be the case if Square ever did a remake of VII.

The entire thought behind the major push from fans for FF7 remake to begin with was the PS3 tech demo as an actual game. That's basically what we're getting. Nobody can say they were 'betrayed'

 

[Metal B]

What does it say exactly?

That they don't see gameplay as part of a legacy. That this aspect didn't defined a game in there view. You would think, that the gameplay aspect is as important as the video part in this medium. We can make the picture look nicer, but the gameplay isn't important enough to keep and update.

I wished SquareEnix worked on the gameplay, like they did with the graphics, characters and story, and redesign it. So that we get a version of the game, that we always had in our head. It feels, like they took the easy way out, since they can use the same engine and gameplay from other games (Kingdom Hearts III and FFXIV).

In my opinion it's lame.

 

[Cow1337killr]

I wish they would develop 2 combat systems for this game and allow us to choose between Turn-based and action.

 

[Professor Beef]

You can still buy FF7 and play it on a modern machine.

You can't buy the original Star Wars on Blu Ray.

Which part is hyperbole?

The part where you insinuate that FF7 is going to be slowly erased.

I wish they would develop 2 combat systems for this game and allow us to choose between Turn-based and action.

Dissidia tried that. Guess which one didn't take?

 

[ika]

I'll try to be optimistic and open minded, but I'm not a fan of Nomura latest works and his decisions so far... I'd prefer they just redo all music and graphics, and keep the gameplay and story intact with minor adjustments as a "real" remake/remaster, rather than a complete re-imagination of the classic in a different sub-genre. My dream was to be able to play the same game/experience with the technology of today (other games I'd love to see remaked are Xenogears, Terranigma, Final Fantasy VI or even Xenoblade Chronicles HD). But oh well... We'll see, I guess...

 

[Yarbskoo]

The entire thought behind the major push from fans for FF7 remake to begin with was the PS3 tech demo as an actual game. That's basically what we're getting. Nobody can say they were 'betrayed'

Yeah, fair enough. I guess I wanted that too at some point.

That was before I got too deep into the compilation stuff and kinda realized there was a lot more to FF7 that made it special than just the story and setting.

The part where you insinuate that FF7 is going to be slowly erased.

Nah. Kind of the opposite actually. I was kinda hoping this would replace the original the same way those other remasters have.

If someone wanted to experience Final Fantasy X for the first time, I'd point them to the remaster, because it preserves the essence of the original game, even with the funky faces, while also providing real improvements to image quality and gameplay.

If someone wanted to experience Final Fantasy VII for the first time, I wouldn't suggest the remake, because it's so different it's basically a completely different game.

 

[Professor Beef]

I'll try to be optimistic and open minded, but I'm not a fan of Nomura latest works and his decisions so far... I'd prefer they just redo all music and graphics, and keep the gameplay and story intact with minor adjustments as a "real" remake/remaster, rather than a complete re-imagination of the classic in a different sub-genre. My dream was to be able to play the same game/experience with the technology of today (other games I'd love to see remaked are Xenogears, Terranigma, Final Fantasy VI or even Xenoblade Chronicles HD). But oh well... We'll see, I guess...

FF6 got the remaster it deserved

 

[ZeoVGM]

That they don't see gameplay as part of a legacy. That this aspect didn't defined a game in there view. You would think, that the gameplay aspect is as important as the video part in this medium. We can make the picture look nicer, but the gameplay isn't important enough to keep and update.

I wished SquareEnix worked on the gameplay, like they did with the graphics, characters and story, and redesign it. So that we get a version of the game, that we always had in our head. It feels, like they took the easy way out, since they can use the same engine and gameplay from other games (Kingdom Hearts III and FFXIV).

In my opinion it's lame.

It still has the Materia system. You can switch between all the characters.

"Turn based" is not necessarily something that needs to be kept to preserve the "legacy."

Square managed something a lot closer for FF4.

... For the Nintendo DS.

If they did the FF4 remake on a PS4, they wouldn't have done that.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

That they don't see gameplay as part of a legacy. That this aspect didn't defined a game in there view. You would think, that the gameplay aspect is as important as the video part in this medium. We can make the picture look nicer, but the gameplay isn't important enough to keep and update.

I wished SquareEnix worked on the gameplay, like they did with the graphics, characters and story, and redesign it. So that we get a version of the game, that we always had in our head. It feels, like they took the easy way out, since they can use the same engine and gameplay from other games (Kingdom Hearts III and FFXIV).

In my opinion it's lame.

This combat system is completely different from KH3 , and especially from XIV. The easy way out would be to do what everyone is asking, just keep everything the same.

How is building a new combat system from the ground up "The easy way out"? Do you know how much work its going to be to get unique combat from 9 different playable characters who all have different weapons and skills? Do you know how much extra Q&A they're going to have to do by switching this from random encounters/turn based to realtime and action combat? They gave themselves twice as much work. But you know what? That's what Nomura wants to do, thats his vision for this game, and Square Enix/Kitase decided that Nomura was the best man for the job.

 

[Yarbskoo]

... For the Nintendo DS.

If they did the FF4 remake on a PS4, they wouldn't have done that.

Maybe they should have done a Final Fantasy VII remake on 3DS then. I would have played it.

 

[Killroyskbg]

You can still buy FF7 and play it on a modern machine.

You can indeed so what is wrong with them changing the combat gameplay as well as other stuff. You really only want a reskinned version of the same game that has been available on pretty much every PS system and even PC since it came out?
I love the game and have finished it multiple times but that they are changing some things and adding new stuff is what is exciting.

Run from midgar to Khalm and time how long that takes and then compare that to ffxv for instance. You would probably not even reach the diner from your car in hammerhead. The game have to change to have a chance to not only excite the old fans but also live up to what people expect in 2017 that have never played it.

 

[ZeoVGM]

Maybe they should have done a Final Fantasy VII remake on 3DS then. I would have played it.

Okay, you're being ridiculous now. On multiple levels.

 

[Yarbskoo]

You can indeed so what is wrong with them changing the combat gameplay as well as other stuff. You really only want a reskinned version of the same game that has been available on pretty much every PS system and even PC since it came out?
I love the game and have finished it multiple times but that they are changing some things and adding new stuff is what is exciting.

Run from midgar to Khalm and time how long that takes and then compare that to ffxv for instance. You would probably not even reach the diner from your car in hammerhead. The game have to change to have a chance to not only excite the old fans but also live up to what people expect in 2017 that have never played it.

Honestly, people who've never played the original should probably still play the original, even if they've already played the remake. Like how Metal Gear Solid is still worth playing even if you've already played Twin Snakes.

Okay, you're being ridiculous now. On multiple levels.

Maybe.

But you know you'd play it too.

FF6 got the remaster it deserved

Let's not get crazy here.

 

[Killroyskbg]

Honestly, people who've never played the original should probably still play the original, even if they've already played the remake. Like how Metal Gear Solid is still worth playing even if you've already played twin snakes.

And they can do that if they want and so can you it will still be available. Cant understand people who wants the same game with just prettier graphics. What the fuck does that add?

 

[The Dude]

To me there is no reason they couldn't of spiced it up a bit similar to how good Persona 5s turn based combat looks. You can't say turn based won't sell when people are highly anticipating a turn based game like Persona 5.

It's why people love the fuck out of DQ8, it'd be a crime to change the turn based combat in DQ8 into real time, it'd be a crime and I'm willing to bet there's hardly a DQ fan that would be excited for a change like that.

There are so many ways they could give the ATB system a face lift while still keeping the integrity of turn based gaming.

 

[Yarbskoo]

And they can do that if they want and so can you it will still be available. Cant understand people who wants the same game with just prettier graphics. What the fuck does that add?

It adds prettier graphics.

 

[The Dude]

And they can do that if they want and so can you it will still be available. Cant understand people who wants the same game with just prettier graphics. What the fuck does that add?

That's a stupid comment, games we got last gen are already re releasing with simply better graphics. Skyrim says hello, and the many other games that get graphic upgrades.

 

[Metal B]

It still has the Materia system. You can switch between all the characters.
"Turn based" is not necessarily something that needs to be kept to preserve the "legacy."

This is like saying, Super Mario Bros doesn't need to be a Jump n' Run. If they wanted to explore the world with a different genre, there are many possibilities. But why announcing it as remake and then cut the genre of the game? It's a reimagining now.

This combat system is completely different from KH3 , and especially from XIV. The easy way out would be to do what everyone is asking, just keep everything the same.

I would be surprised, if the game doesn't use a similar engine or coding as those games. The combat system can be different, but it will properly work on the same gaming engine as those games. It's simply efficient and good management.

How is building a new combat system from the ground up "The easy way out"? Do you know how much work its going to be to get unique combat from 9 different playable characters who all have different weapons and skills? Do you know how much extra Q&A they're going to have to do by switching this from random encounters/turn based to realtime and action combat? They gave themselves twice as much work. But you know what? That's what Nomura wants to do, thats his vision for this game, and Square Enix/Kitase decided that Nomura was the best man for the job.

Yes, it is the easy way out, since they can build on a lot of experience from previous work and even use similar engines and code. Actually trying to update a turn-based system, make it more deep and fun, would have been an actually challenge for this team.
Of course, there will be a lot of people working at this game and it will be a fantastic task finishing a game on this scale. But it doesn't sound like, it will something unique, break there limits and explore an old gameplay system in a new time.

 

[Killroyskbg]

That's a stupid comment, games we got last gen are already re releasing with simply better graphics. Skyrim says hello, and the many other games that get graphic upgrades.

They are called remastered and not remakes for a reason.

Think for five seconds before trying to point out the stupidity in other when you are the stupid one "dude".

 

[Professor Beef]

Let's not get crazy here.

I will fully admit that I am biased against FF6 because I think it's completely boring and not all that fun to play, so go ahead and take my posts regarding that game with a grain of salt.

 

[SomeRandomWeirdGuy]

And they can do that if they want and so can you it will still be available. Cant understand people who wants the same game with just prettier graphics. What the fuck does that add?

Yeah I mean what does that add

it's not like all the best remakes ever made have been faithful to the game systems of the original game. I mean, just look at all those revered remakes that completely changed the main gameplay! They're out there, trust me

Look at this disgusting slop. Modernizing the graphics, smoothing out the gameplay to be a bit more palatable to modern audiences, adding story beats/fixing translations, and all that is pointless! Go play the original games!

 

[The Dude]

They are called remastered and not remakes for a reason.

Think for five seconds before trying to point out the stupidity in other when you are the stupid one "dude".

Horseshit, the comment was why would anyone want the same game just prettier graphics...remaster, remakes, all are based around making a game look better and that's what people want.

 

[Snakeyes]

How is building a new combat system from the ground up "The easy way out"?

Because designing a dynamic and modern turn-based battle system that wouldn't look out of place alongside the remake's high production values is a lot harder than tweaking an existing formula that has already proven itself on the market with Kingdom Hearts and FFXV.

 

[The Dude]

I will fully admit that I am biased against FF6 because I think it's completely boring and not all that fun to play, so go ahead and take my posts regarding that game with a grain of salt.

 

[Fitts]

Yeah I mean what does that add

it's not like all the best remakes ever made have been faithful to the game systems of the original game. I mean, just look at all those revered remakes that completely changed the main gameplay! They're out there, trust me

Look at this disgusting slop. Modernizing the graphics, smoothing out the gameplay to be a bit more palatable to modern audiences, adding story beats/fixing translations, and all that is pointless! Go play the original games!

I wanted to write that REmake is what remakes should strive to be, but this is much better.

 

[RangerX]

I really wasn't a fan of XV's combat so this is'nt good news, even though we pretty much knew this from the trailers. I just want turn based back. There is no nostalgia involved. Turn based combat is just good fun and is strategic. Square shouldn't deny the parts of the series that brought us joy because others have deemed turn based combat "dated".

 

[Professor Beef]

And I have my reasons for that stance, and none of them have to do with turn-based combat, as I'm sure you feared.

 

[ZeoVGM]

It feels, like they took the easy way out, since they can use the same engine and gameplay from other games (Kingdom Hearts III and FFXIV).

In my opinion it's lame.

It plays absolutely nothing like XIV so I don't even know what you're talking about there.

And simply being action-based does not make it like KH.

I would be surprised, if the game doesn't use a similar engine or coding as those games. The combat system can be different, but it will properly work on the same gaming engine as those games. It's simply efficient and good management

Seriously, what are you talking about? Those games are not even slightly similar. The game engines aren't the same. The combat isn't.

The "coding?" I'm not sure you understand the topic here. Seriously, what?

 

[Killroyskbg]

Horseshit, the comment was why would anyone want the same game just prettier graphics...remaster, remakes, all are based around making a game look better and that's what people want.

It was not it was I can't understand people who only want prettier graphics, I really don't. But sure try to spin my words to make yourself seem smarter than your avatar if that helps your ego.

I have never bought a "new gen" remaster and don't understand the appeal of it. Borrowed tlou remaster from a friend when I got a PRO since it supported it but quit after the intro. Another game I love and beaten a few times aswell but the added graphics did nothing for me it was still the same game.

And no read this thread and you will find that many people do not just want the same game but actually prefer something new.

 

[Autoignition]

It is March 2017, and people still honestly believed this game would go turn-based?

 

[ZeoVGM]

Because designing a dynamic and modern turn-based battle system that wouldn't look out of place alongside the remake's high production values is a lot harder than tweaking an existing formula that has already proven itself on the market with Kingdom Hearts and FFXV.

Please stop with the nonsense. That doesn't mean they took the "easy way out." That's insulting to the developers.

But considering you think KH and FFXV are anything even remotely alike means you already have a very narrow view of the genre, gameplay and development in general.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I really wasn't a fan of XV's combat so this is'nt good news, even though we pretty much knew this from the trailers. I just want turn based back. There is no nostalgia involved. Turn based combat is just good fun and is strategic. Square shouldn't deny the parts of the series that brought us joy because others have deemed turn based combat "dated".

This isnt FF15's combat system though. And its not being done by the same team either so..?

Yeah I mean what does that add

it's not like all the best remakes ever made have been faithful to the game systems of the original game. I mean, just look at all those revered remakes that completely changed the main gameplay! They're out there, trust me

Look at this disgusting slop. Modernizing the graphics, smoothing out the gameplay to be a bit more palatable to modern audiences, adding story beats/fixing translations, and all that is pointless! Go play the original games!

This is a reimaging/remake on another level from any game remake before, we can say that. And we can also say that the production involved in taking a 20 year old game and making it a brand new game is completely different as well.

Cause that's what it is, a brand new game on PS4 as opposed to a 20 year old game on PS1, made with what is likely many times the budget.

There are PC mods that can do what you want with the original FF7. This is essentially an entirely different game based on the original.

 

[ULTROS!]

And I have my reasons for that stance, and none of them have to do with turn-based combat, as I'm sure you feared.

Personally, FFVI isn't my favorite favorite FF (but it's up there along with IV and XV) but it's still good. I played FFVI without the nostalgia glasses on (since I completed it like around 2006-2009). I think the latter half could be done a bit better and be less vague?

 

[Narroo]

Yeah I mean what does that add

it's not like all the best remakes ever made have been faithful to the game systems of the original game. I mean, just look at all those revered remakes that completely changed the main gameplay! They're out there, trust me

Look at this disgusting slop. Modernizing the graphics, smoothing out the gameplay to be a bit more palatable to modern audiences, adding story beats/fixing translations, and all that is pointless! Go play the original games!

This post pretty much sums up what a lot of people wanted: A modern, improved version of the game; not something completely different.

My thought's always been this: If you're going to completely change the game into something different, why not just make a new game? If you hated the original game, it might sound nice that the remake is action based, but have you considered that there would be basically no difference between this and a new IP? In this age of sequels, remasters, and releases, why not just make a new game.

The reason of course is marketing; An FFVII remake is bound to sell a few million units regardless of what they do, just because of the name. Otherwise, we'd have a nice, new, slick looking action game. Rubs me the wrong way.

 

[Killroyskbg]

Yeah I mean what does that add

it's not like all the best remakes ever made have been faithful to the game systems of the original game. I mean, just look at all those revered remakes that completely changed the main gameplay! They're out there, trust me

Look at this disgusting slop. Modernizing the graphics, smoothing out the gameplay to be a bit more palatable to modern audiences, adding story beats/fixing translations, and all that is pointless! Go play the original games!

I don't play the DS so have no clue how those games play but the RE remake was brilliant. They ditched the old controls for something new and the game while similar still felt like something fresh.

EXACTLY what I want with FFVII remake. Something new both in gameplay and story but still different enough to make me excited to play it. We will probably still have the same magic/summons/materia but the way we use it are changed and they will stay true to the original story but adding and updating it.

 

[Inuhanyou]

This post pretty much sums up what a lot of people wanted: A modern, improved version of the game; not something completely different.

My thought's always been this: If you're going to completely change the game into something different, why not just make a new game? I

A lot of people dont know what they want and can't agree on anything.

This IS a brand new game, based on FF7 but re-imagined in a different light. Its not intended to be the original, do people have to say it a billion times?

They were never going to ever do a version of the game that was 1:1 with the source material, this was a pipe dream.

 

[flintstryker]

A lot of people dont know what they want and can't agree on anything.

This IS a brand new game, based on FF7 but re-imagined in a different light. Its not intended to be the original, do people have to say it a billion times?

They were never going to ever do a version of the game that was 1:1 with the source material, this was a pipe dream.

should have just made a new game then to be honest, though I guess square wants to cash in as much on that brand power as they can

 

[Metal B]

Seriously, what are you talking about? Those games are not even slightly similar. The game engines aren't the same. The combat isn't.
The "coding?" I'm not sure you understand the topic here. Seriously, what?

This means, that the developers can use part of their already exciting libraries (collection of code) from one game and reuse it for another. Let's say the build a system "Lock on to an enemy" for FFXIV. Now they can reuse the same system for FFVII, what will save them a lot of time. Maybe they alter those to either better fit the gameplay, fix, rebalance or another reason, but the hardest part is already done.

Like i said, this is good management, since you have overall less work and can focus much better on new systems. But its lazy, since you don't explore new ideas, gameplay or try to remake a older system in a new era.

A lot of people dont know what they want and can't agree on anything.
This IS a brand new game, based on FF7 but re-imagined in a different light. Its not intended to be the original, do people have to say it a billion times?

The last time i checked, the project is called "FF7 Remake". Not "FF7 Re-Imagined". Maybe people don't know what they want, but if i buy a remake, i aspect a remake.

 

[ZeoVGM]

should have just made a new game then to be honest, though I guess square wants to cash in as much on that brand power as they can

It's a remake of FFVII. Is has the story of FFVII. You're in the same areas as FFVII. You use the Materia system. You play as all the same characters as the original FFVII. You switch between them in battle.

But yes, this should have just been a new game and this is just a cash in. That's it.

 

[ZeoVGM]

This means, that the developers can use part of their already exciting libraries (collection of code) from one game and reuse it for another. Let's say the build a system "Lock on to an enemy" for FFXIV. Now they can reuse the same system for FFVII, what will save them a lot of time.

Oh my god.

That isn't how game development works.

 

[JayEH]

Cancel the remake and make a brawler staring Tifa instead.