Zoe
Member
You just have to connect pairs of colors. I never memorized the pattern.
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FINAL FANTASY XIII-2 |OT| Change the Future
- Thread starter Kagari
- Start date
You just have to connect pairs of colors. I never memorized the pattern.
The Last One
Member
Just finished the game. What a great last boss battle, I wish the names were
BTW, the ending is good, but like people said, the game will continue. The question is, DLC or Final Fantasy XIII-3?
Bahamut, Neo Bahamut and Bahamut Zero hehe
BTW, the ending is good, but like people said, the game will continue. The question is, DLC or Final Fantasy XIII-3?
Rahxephon91
Banned
Hey Hey. I still really like XIII. But just because I like XIII, doesn't mean I have to like XIII-2. And doesn't mean I can't try and be objective with how I look at the games either. I like parts of XIII-2. I like soundtrack quite a bit, I like Noel, and even parts of the story are ok. But I have issues with the battle system, the way monsters are done, the levels, time travel, and no I don't like the story. And I'm allowed to. Just because I like XIII, does not mean I have to agree with everything about XIII-2. It doesn't even make sense when I liked the linearity and battles of XIII, things XIII-2 changes. Just because XIII-2 throws more at you doesn't mean it's good. I somewhat liked XIII, because it was focused on specific things. Maybe less is more?
I mean just because someone has conflicting views, doesn't mean they have to be put in 1 category. That's always bothered me, more so when I hate my tag. Because you can like a lot of things and not be a dudbro or a weaboo. I don't think anyone is simply, trying to act "cool"(Especially me, with my annoying rants about MGS4). I like CoD, I like FF. I mean if you looked at my game collection, it would be impossible to categorize me. I'm sure plenty of gamers are like that. So I cringe when ever I see attacks on quote on quote dudebros or posts like "people who play Cod blah blah".
As for Skyrim. My praise (if any) would'nt be for the story. It would be for how adventurous and well realized its world is. It's an incredibly presented world. You may say "generic". I don't think so, or rather maybe it is. But it's a world that is grounded in it's tone of semi-realism. It keeps that tone consistent and for that the world feels like a place. You can do that to with over the top fantasy worlds as well. I thought XIII did even if it wasn't presented as well. I thought XIII's world had its own logic, rules, and history that made sense in how the world was presented. So I liked XIII's world. XIII-2 seems to just throw that logic out of the window and exusues it with paradoxes. The game seems to constantly throw new made up things every minute. Maybe, the datalog and stuff explains this. I don't read it. I sure didn't have to read it to get XIII's world either. I got it through the characters and visuals. Skyrim does the same thing. I don't read stuff in Skyrim and if you were to quiz me on it's lore I wouldn't know shit. But I get a sense of the world from just playing and walking around. Same with XIII even. With XIII-2 the world just seems just whatever. And thats a negative for me.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Are you sure you didn't just grow some teeth between XIII and XIII-2, in terms of willingness to criticize? I certainly wouldn't imply that's necessarily the case... but it's possible right?
Nose Master
Member
I think they purposely made Noel's default costume shitty so people would buy the alt. I'm thinking about it D:
The alt looks far worse to me. I think they just lack talent.
Speaking of which, Kagari, did you find that thing about Nomura's role in XIII? I did some googling but didn't turn up anything.
Rahxephon91
Banned
I don't think so. I mean go into a MGS thread and see I can and have always been able to criticize games I don't like. And it's not like I was never able to criticize XIII as well. I simply had less to, because well I like a lot about the game. I simply do not find XIII-2 to be that great. I never said it was bad, just not exactly great.
Yes, and? I never said this wasn't the case... people can have varying opinions. This is human nature. It's how people come to the conclusion in some cases that pisses me off. This is the core of my argument. No more, no less. You assume too much. You seem to be having a kneejerk reaction to people having disdain for the dudebro gaming demographic. Sorry if that rubs you the wrong way. Stu thought I was hung up on the OST or something.
It has nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing. XIII-2 has some problems that have indeed been properly identified. I'm speaking to, AGAIN, the method in which some reviewers (not just for FF, but damn near any review for something that isn't a dudebro FPS this gen) choose to criticize and how much sense it doesn't make. People are entitled to their opinions, but sometimes, you can tell they are extremely biased and dismissive, or haven't even played enough of the game/barely paid attention to it and have studied other reviews just enough to form an opinion.
Again, taking my comment out of context. I'm not really talking about one OST versus another. I'm talking about how opinions are formed. That's it. They don't have to like the new OST. I certainly don't like it as much.
I think it's about the same. Frankly XIII didn't have a great story either so when I say I like XIII-2's more, it's not really saying a whole lot, other than time travel giving at least a different kind of perspective to keep you playing.
The entirety of XIII/2's plot doesn't really make a lot of sense if you really take a step back and try to digest it all.
A lot of the boss fights are like XIII's, but the regular battles seem to be much easier. Maybe we will get hard mode DLC someday.
When COD wins best ending with Halo right behind it, that's pretty telling. I am not totally biased, nor do I hate all open world western games, but I think Skyrim is overrated. I don't think any previous single player FF's had a world as open as Skyrim's, not even FFXII, so I'm not sure how your are making a comparison there. I guess FFXI could count but it's an MMO first and foremost. But a game does NOT necessarily have to be huge and open to only then give you a complete sense of exploration.
You are getting caught up in nuanced instances of praise. I'm talking about reviews in general, and how the younger demographic have different opinions about what makes a game have anything ranging from a good story or ending to what makes it a good RPG or a "hardcore" title. I don't necessarily disagree with what you said; of course games that aren't just COD can still get a good review.
I look at it as more than an apology. It's better in every way. You have to appreciate that. They did not handle XIII very well, and can't change the past. All they can do is listen to criticism and improve the experience, and that's exactly what they did. I can't fault them for that. I can fault them for many mistakes made in the past, but 13-2 is a step in the right direction. If it was in a completely different world where the story and characters could all be new I'm sure the story would also be much better as well. But they're kind of stuck with that.
Because if you actually have a conversation with someone -- not just on a message board -- who really only plays COD, Halo, and MW, calling themselves "hardcore", there's more than enough justification to generalize. All of those other games have an audience, yes, but the COD/MW's are king. Which from my perspective is a bit worrying, because it's a lot of unimaginative one-dimensional dudebros out there contributing to keeping those brands so highly reputable and profitable. Do you think it's just a coincidence that S-E wanted FF13 to be as linear as it was so it could be in the vein of a FPS? They were clearly attempting to pander to emerging trends in the market, demonstrated by younger gamers (a key demographic that S-E has always needed for FF to stay relevant) that they felt compelled to respond to.
We all have bias; the question is what fuels it. I don't mind FPS games even though I'm not heavily invested in them; what I do mind is how they are somehow able to make everything else seem less relevant, as though any other kind of game is not 'hardcore' enough, unless it is an open world WRPG like Skryim. It's the attitude of these kinds of gamers and reviewers alike that pisses me off. There's more to gaming than this. And while there are plenty of games that reflect that, they are no doubt overshadowed, even by the sales alone of games like COD. And it's pretty awful.
You are getting caught up in the little nuanced things that seems to make you love the games you play. You are entitled to your opinions; I'm primarily talking about the way in which games have been criticized over the past few years and how baffling it has become at times. And, yes, I am also talking about the dudebro demographic and the stranglehold it has over the market.
The bottom line is that XIII does a lot of stuff different, not inherently better. Things like the level design, yes, I would say its different and better than XIII's approach. Other things like the Mog Clock and the Monster Catching system is indeed different, but I couldn't say that its better than XIII's party approach (especially when we get into game difficulty). With that in mind, it's not hard to see that even people who loved XIII may not be completely onboard with XIII-2 since a lot of the things one might have liked in XIII is completely different in XIII-2.
Coming from someone who neither loved nor hated XIII, I feel like XIII-2 takes some important strides in some aspects and really drops the ball in others, mostly because they experimented or put in new things that either worked or didn't work.
Yes, read some short summary of the story of XIII and only play XIII-2. That way it really feels "new". There's a lot of reused monster design.
Freely discussed.
The game has a chapter by chapter voiced recap of the events transpired in XIII for people who haven't played it, so yes.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Well.. I generally agree.
While the story of both XIIIs added up to fluff (IMO), At least the first XIII had the pretense of being a serious, dramatic adventure.. Its easier to submit yourself into the drama and get invested in it. XIII-2 is kind of meaningless even on a surface level.
But I can't help but feel that less linearity = a better game. I feel compelled to say XIII-2 is ultimately better. But then again, the battle system seems to have been broken by freedom in character development
Battles in XIII were consequently more fun.Mixed bag.. No doubt. Neither of the games are home runs, to say the least.
Go_Ly_Dow
Member
Overall favourite location in the game would probably be
. The music and general art direction gave me some serious NieR vibes.
Dang, I better hurry up and 100% it then.
A Dying World
Dang, I better hurry up and 100% it then.
I think for every aspect XIII-2 gets right, it fucks something up, probably more on the fuck up side really.
Worse OST
Worse battle system (the Pokemon thing is awful)
Worse character design
Worse technical performance
Worse difficulty balance
Worse character evolution system
Better towns
Better level design
Better flexibility in destination
Better side quests
Better antagonist
Better story
Such a bizarre game really, they over shot so much of what was wrong I think.
Worse OST
Worse battle system (the Pokemon thing is awful)
Worse character design
Worse technical performance
Worse difficulty balance
Worse character evolution system
Better towns
Better level design
Better flexibility in destination
Better side quests
Better antagonist
Better story
Such a bizarre game really, they over shot so much of what was wrong I think.
I love the fragment text about
Mog losing his duel with Lightning because she put down scissors three times in a row
Absolutely. The lighthearted tone of this game was much more in line with the series' legacy.
I agree about the performance and balance. Disagree very strongly about the "Pokemon thing" (lol) being awful, since it's the main thing I love about the game. I think the new crystarium is better, too, and I like the way you level monsters as well.
The Last One
Member
BTW, the songs of the final moments are just top level.
To be fair, I'm not sure it's the pokemon specifically I don't like, more that otherwise there are only two playable characters, neither of which look cool, if the Pokemon system was in XIII I think I'd have liked it more.
The Emperor
Member
Looking at the variety of opinions spread accross the last two pages I think there's once conclusion
FFXIII-2 is once again a polarizing FF game, just like FF8,12,13. But perhaps people who think its bad don't think its as bad as 13 was so the spectrum of polarity is more close together than of 13 which was all over the place in opinions.
FFXIII-2 is once again a polarizing FF game, just like FF8,12,13. But perhaps people who think its bad don't think its as bad as 13 was so the spectrum of polarity is more close together than of 13 which was all over the place in opinions.
How so?
The OST is worse, but XIII's really raised the bar so didn't expect XIII-2 to follow suit. You can't just replicate that. Hamauzu is a genius. As soon as I learned XIII-2 would be a collaborative effort, I figured it would be lacking in comparison, but it still can hold its own (my main gripe is that there are too many vocal tracks and alternate versions).
I don't mind catching monsters, it's a fun addition to the game. As for the difficulty balance, I'm not so sure if it's as profound as people make it out to be, but general battles are no doubt easier than they were in XIII. Again, hard mode DLC could change all of that.
I'm not sure what I think about the new Cyrstarium. 13's could have been better if it was more open, but it wasn't, so that's invalid. FFXIII-2's is better in that it is not restricted in terms of growth, but you can max everything out by grinding which allows you to semi-abuse it.
This is what I was referring to when I said Raphexon had changed. It seems when this game was released, suddenly everyone who liked FF13 and defended it to death and/or accepted its flaws have changed their tunes and are now criticizing the sequel for the same things FF13 was praised for. The reviewers this time around really disgusted me. If you make your bed, lie in it. I accepted and loved 13 despite its changes to the RPG formula. It was a 9 in my book and still is.
There are less high points, but XIII-2's OST is still very good.
I think the monsters bring a lot more options to experiment. I especially love that they didn't go the SMT route and let you keep as many monsters as you like.
I disagree. Noel is better than anyone in XIII, Serah is a lot more tolerable than Vanille. Even returning characters are better done in XIII-2.
That's true.
Yes, definitely. On the other hand XIII wasn't really done well, either. I don't think it's a sign of good balancing if you have to install random level caps throughout the game to keep the player where you want him.
Also, for people who don't like XIII and XIII-2's battle system, battles don't get in the way as much in XIII-2, just because it's so much easier.
No limits make XIII-2 better.
The Emperor
Member
Most of your fuck ups aren't such a big issue imo
The OST...did you think it was terrible? For me XIII OST was amazing, so even if its worse the OSt can still be "good" and it is for the first 13 hours that I've played.
Worse technical performance...I dunno but I don't care if there is a slight framerate drop, I'm someone who barely notices it...its not a big fuck up at all for me its a minor annoyance..a very minor annoyance. You probably mean worse graphics in this too...again meh not something which bothers me too much as art direction is still good.
The other things I agree can be seen as fuck ups, especially the difficulty, its really the elephant in the room here.
Go_Ly_Dow
Member
If S-E is really listening to fan criticism like they said, maybe they'll address that.
Doubtful.
What do you mean 8 and 12? That says worse, not worst if that's what you mean.
Its more that critics were still too soft to 13 and now they use more of the review scale for 13-2. And just like StuBurns pointed out, for most of the improvements they made, they also introduced new flaws.
The Emperor
Member
All they need to do is patch with a hard mode like they patched XIII with an easy mode for free in Japan.If S-E is really listening to fan criticism like they said, maybe they'll address that.
Doubtful.
They need to hurry up with it though before people lose interest in replaying or something.
I do think a Hard mode DLC or something is on the way though, it only makes sense if theres a Easy & a Normal mode that there would be a HArd mode...it only makes sense...
In the case of VIII the Junction System has to be by far the easiest to abuse. You can totally break it. XII's License Grid was kind of boring, at least in the non-ZJS ver which is all I ever played.
Well, it isn't selling that great to begin with afaik, so hard mode DLC would be too little too late. They could put it out there for us regardless, it would not be a very costly or tough thing to do on their behalf.
There's only a few places where the frame rate drops so much that it's annoying. Since you said you only played 13 hours, maybe you haven't reached them yet? It's in some later areas.
Go_Ly_Dow
Member
Isn't the levelling system the same as it is in XIII? My minds a bit foggy on XIII's, but isn't the only difference the lack of a cap in XIII-2?
Listed VIII and XII since I prefer the Crystarium over their respective systems.
If someone doesn't like the Paradigm Shift system, there is really no reason to play the game at this point (especially in the advent of youtube to still be able to watch the story). So saying that the battles don't "get in the way" doesn't really mean much in the grand scheme of things.
But as for XIII's level cap, I think it works when the developers actually design the game to sufficiently accommodate for it. For the most part, I felt that XIII did this adequately enough; you never felt underleveled or overleveled. XIII's level cap may be more apparent than say... Xenoblade's "cap" in areas (where enemies just stop giving EXP in certain areas, while the obscenely stronger enemies are almost un-fightable for most of the game because you won't actually be able to hit them at all until you're within that magic level/agility range) but I feel like it didn't handle it all that terribly. Its one of those moments where a developer actually does try to weave story and gameplay together in a consistent fashion, even if it really is harder to do in an RPG than otherwise.
At the very least, it made some boss battles pretty intense when the story wants them to. In contrast, look at Episode 5 of XIII-2;
the game was hyping up fighting Caius and even gave you a 'do you wish to go on because you won't be able to return for awhile' moment. And after all this hyping about Caius, he goes down in less than 30 seconds. But yet the game still tries to sell to me that Caius is a super badass and does the entire 'beat enemy, main character is still beaten after the battle' moment.
Riposte
Member
What nonsense. Having level caps is not a sign of balancing one way or another... it IS balancing.
In normal games which don't follow broken JRPG logic they use "level caps" in the form of limiting which powers you have (for example a chaingun in Serious Sam 3, which don't get for many stages) and designing encounters around those powers.
Obviously level caps are not "random".
But it's still as soulless and convoluted as its predecessor, potentially even more so.
The Emperor
Member
Well I think the hard mode DLC should be more for people who have already bought it, I don't expect even them to think adding a hard mode could influence sales now.
Okay I'm probably not there but the framerate drop will have to be truly horrendous for me to get annoyed, I somehow managed to play laggy games with a poor PC from 2004-2010 so my ability the bear low framerate is pretty strong
What does that mean?
There are a lot of scenes that are quite emotional in both games, but especially in FF13-2, though admittedly, several are out of the path of the main story.
StunandStab
Member
The worst part of the game for framerate drops is the intro Lightning and Caius battle. It was pretty bad there... I didn't notice it at any other point in the game
Not really, I found XIIIs to feel more open. And the cap never bothered me, probably because the game felt fairly balanced.
The whole concept of being able to break an RPG is strange to me. Yes, you can keep Squall out of your team for long periods of time so you can massively rip thru the game, but you're only hurting your own experience. I don't see the advantage to exploiting a game which as a result fails to provide any challenge. Putting a hundred triples on Quistis' speed and keeping her at her limit break to defrag every enemy isn't clever, it's boring.
XIII compromised flexibility in character customization, removed post-battle injury, added retries etc, so they could balance the difficulty more accurately than ever before. It can be easier than past FFs, or harder, depending on how you played those games, but it was tuned fairly well. Another thing it did (which XIII-2 still does) is make the battles last almost no time at all once you've 'solved' what you have to do.
When XIII came out, I was unsure if I favoured it's system over X-2's (my previous favourite), but now I'm fairly sure I do prefer XIII's, the compromises it makes paid dividends elsewhere for me, and I think as a whole it was a positive trade off. In saying that, I'm not saying people who hated it are wrong, character growth hasn't been that important to me in RPGs, the less time spent in menus the better I think.
Isn't that the point though? Different outcomes/paradoxes and whatnot. Of course it would be out of line with the main story (if that is what you were referring to)?
It's honestly not terrible. Certainly more interesting than XIII's IMO. They are doing the best they can given what they are stuck with. Maybe my expectations are different because I'm not expecting a JRPG to be as compelling as someone's favorite holy book, I dunno.
I really don't like the battle system or let's say "the battles" (preparing for battles is still fun), but I'm enjoying XIII-2 a lot. There's more to the game than just the battles. Since battles are so fast, I don't mind them.
It also makes battles feel less rewarding (because you can't use your Exp.). At least (if I remember this right) XIII lets you spend your accumulated Exp. after you unlocked the next level of the Crystarium.
Don't get me started on Xenoblade.
Hmm, while I can understand this, it's also a step towards more "scripted" RPGs.
Okay, I can't say anything about that (and deleted that spoiler part as fast as I could in the quote), since I'm still on Episode 4.
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
I don't usually give games 'scores', per se, but I ended up giving FFXIII a 3/5 when people asked.
I think I'll end up giving this one the same score if people ask, maybe notch it up to 3.25/5. It excels in areas where FFXIII was lacking in, but it's also lacking in areas that FFXIII excelled in. In that way, both games complement each other very well, but they aren't extraordinary or mindblowing to me.
Naw, naw, this is the cutest moogle in FF.
This one.
Right here.
Stiltzkin and FFVI Mog are pretty up there. FFVI Mog is a useful Geomancer. And Stiltzkin is just great on his own.
Yes. His design really makes me want to punch him in the face several times. Not to mention his voice. I genuinely dislike his design. At least the Crystal Chronicles moogles were all puffy and cute. And the moogles in Ivalice are all smart and stuff. FFXIII-2 Mog is... ugh.
And don't get me started on Chocolina.
Mog is better than Tipo! :shotsfired
I also like Chocolina. That's been my nick on IRC for days now. She was annoying at first, but I like the way she reacts to each timeline. She's grown on me a lot too.
Chocolina's VA is so awful. What they should've done is have a group of three or so time travelers (one of them could have been Chocolina) who are placed at three distinct points on the map. Chocolina just popping up everywhere is really stupid and annoying. Run up the steps... oh, there she is. Run back down... there she is again!