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[MidnightRider]

try and get me to buy this game.......

try

 

[Skilletor]

Another day, another round of the same handful of people putting the game down. We already know you dislike FF13, what else are you trying to prove? Converting more people to your side? You guys are just as bad as the fanboys. This game has problems, but there are plenty to like.

I've never said anything before because I hadn't played it. I have, now, for 15 hours, and I'm getting bored with the cliche characters, pacing, and battle system.

Why does being critical of a game = fanboy? It's not love/hate. It's possible to like a game and dislike aspects contained therein.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

The thing about Mass Effect or Elder Scroll is, they don't require you to read codex or library books (for ME2 maybe, if you didn't play ME1). From the main plot and side quests you can still get an idea what the game world is and what is going on at the moment. For FFXIII, it seems SE spent way more effort on 1080p CGI than writing a solid story. Plus the stupid japanese-french hybrid names in the game (l'cie, fal'cie, wtf?) only made the story even harder to understand.

That's not the case, though. You get a perfect idea of what is going on in the story and the world in Final Fantasy XIII simply from the cutscenes and overhearing what people are saying when you walk around. The datalog serves a function like the codex, it fleshes out the backstory of the world. It gives more information on what the society is like, and other information like that.

It's certainly not necessary to understand what's going on, but it enhances the world. Which is the way that something like that should be.

 

[KZObsessed]

This has probably already been posted, but I couldn't find some of the Cie'th stones so I google searched and found this great location guide. There's also some "5 Star" videos of the battles. Japanese version tho.

Mission Guide

 

[Dead]

That's not the case, though. You get a perfect idea of what is going on in the story and the world in Final Fantasy XIII simply from the cutscenes and overhearing what people are saying when you walk around. The datalog serves a function like the codex, it fleshes out the backstory of the world. It gives more information on what the society is like, and other information like that.

It's certainly not necessary to understand what's going on, but it enhances the world. Which is the way that something like that should be.

No way maaan, I mean, if it wasn't for the datalog I'd have thought that Hope had a crush on Snow! :lol

 

[Anduron]

Lightning voice actress talks about their work conditions. Basically reading from a script in small room in solitude.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao9zIEmgyZY

Damn naughty dog really is ahead of the game there, but given those circumstances the performances were pretty good.

 

[depths20XX]

Well, you certainly lack the context of my post, so yeah, maybe you are.

And whether or not you have is not my point. You said "welcome to jrpgs" because I said that the game is simply nothing more than battling your way towards cutscenes when in fact, most jrpgs are more gameplay oriented than story-oriented.

Most all RPG's are battling mob after mob to advance the story. Dungeons rarely involve any amount of puzzle solving and towns serve as merely another tool to advance the story. So what gameplay are you talking about?

 

[Skilletor]

Most all RPG's are battling mob after mob to advance the story. Dungeons rarely involve any amount of puzzle solving and towns serve as merely another tool to advance the story. So what gameplay are you talking about?

You either play really shitty RPGs or don't know what "most" means.

 

[depths20XX]

You either play really shitty RPGs or don't know what "most" means.

Yea that's definetly it dude. I like to lie about how many JRPG I've played to people online.

 

[depths20XX]

You just fight fight fight like in FF13. You're so right.

Mostly yeah. Not really much exploration in the majority of them to be honest

 

[commish]

I said this elsewhere on gaf, but I love FF13. I totally get what the devs were trying to do, and I think it works. Are there issues? Of course. At the same time, they are emphasizing the story and battle mechanics of the game, and when you compare the story of FF13 to, say, Fallout 3 or Oblivion (lol story), for some, the narrow focus vs. freedom is a worthwhile trade-off. For the first time in nearly forever, I'm actually thinking about an RPG when not playing it. Personally, the last FF I enjoyed this much was probably VI, or possibly VII. I completely understand why some people don't like the game, and many of their concerns are ones I agree with. But a lot of the problems ppl have with the game are more about their expectations, rather than what they are actually playing.

 

[Slackbladder]

Lightning voice actress talks about their work conditions. Basically reading from a script in small room in solitude.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao9zIEmgyZY

That explains a lot. The problem I have with the dialogue is that it doesn't always sound like they're actually talking to someone, so much as speaking the lines out loud as if at a rehearsal. That is really the Directors fault.

Just wanted to say too, that the game looks great and I love the design. The characters look great too, except for Lightning. Her legs are far too thin, particularly her thighs. You can see the flatness on the inside of her thighs, as if they've been cut away. Stick legs are not pretty...

 

[depths20XX]

Well you certainly can't read, we know that much.



Huh? Are you kidding me?

Wow, so feisty, so sassy.

 

[Castor Krieg]

But, more than likely, I think I've just grown out of giving crappy things a pass, just because I once liked them. FFXIII is crap, but I'll still try to keep an open mind about FFXV. It's a series that has engendered so much goodwill in me, that it'll take more than one terrible entry to dissuade me from trying it out.

Does that mean you will stop trolling and leave this thread?

 

[7Th]

Still stupid. I can understand the character, but that doesn't have to mean I think she's well written or remoately good.

If it's understandable, logical and there is a sense of coherency to her entire personality... why is it stupid? Boring? Maybe, but not stupid.

The fact that Vanille's actions are consistent and intelligible is enough to get Vanille out of the run for worst Final Fantasy character of all time.

 

[Rpgmonkey]

This is simply not true. How can you say nothing happens in chapter 7? It's packed from beginning to end. There's stuff that moves the plot along in a couple big ways in chapter 8 too. But saying nothing really happens in chapter 7 couldn't be more wrong.

To be honest I found the the story so uninteresting (especially in every chapter between 1 and 9) my memory's already pretty fuzzy, but I can't remember much happening that went beyond the characters and added something notable to the grand scheme of the plot until about 9.

7 was the one with Palom-whatchamacallit right?

I'm pretty sure that if I played my favorite FF's today (FF5, 6, 8) with voice acting, I wouldn't like them as much

I'd like to see FFV with voice acting. It has such fun and hilarious dialogue that I'd love to hear that stuff actually voiced. :lol

 

[jiien]

So I finished Chapter 11, though I don't plan to move on for a while, as I want to do all of the hunts, max out my characters, get the ultimate weapons, etc. But

Spoiler

wow, Oerba's such a sad place. Love the music, atmosphere, and the little 'examine' things all over, that do nothing but give information were an AWESOME change from the rest of the previous storyline, where all 'examine' points usually pushed the plot forward. Anyway, absolutely LOVED the way this town was done. So sad...

 

[WanderingWind]

Does that mean you will stop trolling and leave this thread?

Yeah, chief, you may want to relearn the meaning of trolling. Sorry I don't share your particular brand of hivemind on this one. I'm sure we'll agree about something, somewhere down the line.

I'd like to see FFV with voice acting. It has such campy and hilarious dialogue that I'd love to hear that stuff actually voiced. :lol

I know it's not FFV, but I'd like to hear Patrick Stewart read for Tellah. Spoony bard, indeed sir.

 

[Castor Krieg]

So I finished Chapter 11, though I don't plan to move on for a while, as I want to do all of the hunts, max out my characters, get the ultimate weapons, etc. But

Spoiler

wow, Oerba's such a sad place. Love the music, atmosphere, and the little 'examine' things all over, that do nothing but give information were an AWESOME change from the rest of the previous storyline, where all 'examine' points usually pushed the plot forward. Anyway, absolutely LOVED the way this town was done. So sad...

One of the best locations in FF series for me. Coming over the slope was great. Music is perfect as well.

Yeah, chief, you may want to relearn the meaning of trolling. Sorry I don't share your particular brand of hivemind on this one. I'm sure we'll agree about something, somewhere down the line.

Hivemind? Because I like that game? It has it's flaws, but it is a FANTASY game, entertaining one, I find it enjoyable. If you have so many bad things to say about it then you should stop playing and trade it back, there is no reason to torture yourself.

 

[Llyranor]

For the first time in nearly forever, I'm actually thinking about an RPG when not playing it.

That's how I feel. I don't play many singleplayer games nowadays, and when I usually go at them pretty slowly, but I've played about 15 hrs of this in 4 days, and looking forward to playing some more after I get home.

The game does take some time to pick up, but I actually find the pacing quite appropriate. Then again, I started enjoying the gameplay as soon as paradigms were made available, even in 2p (the various setups introduced different lead classes, which provided enough variety to satiate me). I think actively trying to avoid battles really helps in this case; makes the dungeons shorter (so I don't pay as much time thinking about how it's really just a corridor) which helps the pacing, makes the encounters more challenging (maybe this will bite me further down the line when I'll be vastly underleveled, but I say bring it!), and fleshes the crystallium out in a way that deciding which path I want to invest in is a difficult tough and expensive choice (given how few CP's I get compared to the cost of upgrading) instead of just having too many CP's and just maxing out everything fairly easily.

I just love the combat system. It's definitely my favorite FF combat, and as much as people complain about it just pressing X, I find my input into individual battles to be much more significant than in regular FF random encounters (where, even though I will select attack, spell, cure or whatever, the though process required is lesser). Boss battles are particularly fun. Paradigm shifts ranks among my favorite JRPG combat mechanics. At the end of the day, this is what keeps the game together. I want to play more and fight more, and I know that if I allowed myself to, I wouldn't mind engaging in extra battles just for the sake of it (and I'm generally a huge opponent of grinding).

So no, there aren't "worse" happy girl characters.

STAR OCEAN 4

 

[WanderingWind]

One of the best locations in FF series for me. Coming over the slope was great. Music is perfect as well.



Hivemind? Because I like that game? It has it's flaws, but it is a FANTASY game, entertaining one, I find it enjoyable. If you have so many bad things to say about it then you should stop playing and trade it back, there is no reason to torture yourself.

Do I really have to go back and post you the comments from just last page on what I like about the game? Really?

Look, man. I can just as easily say the same things back to you, just in reverse. I mean, if you like it so much, why are you discussing it? Go play it! Again, if necessary!

Discussing the flaws you mention is not a sin. Do not take it personally if somebody doesn't like the same stuff you do. It's a discussion board. Relax.

For instance

When the combat gets good in FF13, it is easily my favorite combat system in the series, but at this point in the game I'm at now, that rarely happens.

I wish this game had a hard mode.

Like Himuro, I enjoy the combat system when I'm forced to do more than just hold down "X"

 

[Crash Station]

Huh? Are you kidding me?

There's definitely more exploration in most JRPGs than FFXIII (at least pre-Pulse) but it's still more a story-driven genre than an exploration-driven one. WRPGs are where the major exploration is at while JRPGs usually just has the "illusion" of exploration outside a few exceptions.

 

[MetatronM]

Huh? Are you kidding me?

What "exploring" do you do in most JRPGs? Treasure is usually just off of the beaten track. You start from the one entrance and make your way through to the boss at the end. There's rarely anything to see or do in a JRPG dungeon except fight enemies, get treasure, or maybe come across a cutscene. You know, like in FF XIII. Not only that, but the objectives are often "we need this item, it's hidden all the way behind the boss at the end of this dungeon, now go get it." Which, quite refreshingly, hasn't happened even once yet thus far in XIII.

On rare occasions you get a few things like FF VI's multi-party dungeons where you actually have to figure out a way to get through. And on super-duper rare occasions you get something like FF VIII's final dungeon, which, aside from the way out to the final boss, is pretty much completely open ended and forces you to explore and decide what you want to do (what bosses you want to fight in what order to get what abilities back, etc.).

Those are the exceptions, though. Most JRPG dungeons might be winding but are ultimately disguised point A to point B paths. The only difference here is that XIII doesn't really disguise it.

 

[mcdomination]

Ok, Himuro is right in saying this is horrible story telling. I've been paying attention my entire playtime (about 18 hours @ Chapter 9).

All I know is that there are l'Cie, Fal'Cie and humans? l'Cie are humans that have been exposed to other Fal'Cie? Cocoon is like a moon above Pulse? Hell, I don't even know if I'm still on Cocoon or Pulse right now. I have absolutely NO sense of culture or past when it comes to any place or anybody in this game so far.

Datalogs are fine to supplement a story, but there isn't even a comprehensible story here. I am very confused (which isn't all that abnormal for a FF game), but this has been the worst out of any FF i have played....which has been all of them.

Gameplay is fantastic, but this is the first FF that I literally have to drag myself to play through and finish in the hopes of some kind of "coming-together" of a storyline.


For me (at this point) FFXIII is just filler until FFXIV

 

[Dresden]

No idea how this could be the most incomprehensible Final Fantasy you've ever played, unless you completely skipped over VIII.

 

[Crash Station]

Oh, of course. But to say what he's saying is ridiculous.

An illusion of exploration and freedom is still better zero exploration and freedom.

Agreed, but have you gotten to Pulse yet? I'm still lost

 

[DodgerSan]

So, I'm enjoying the game (quite a bit). I'm just at the part where

Spoiler

Sazh & Vanille go to power up four points on a generator in the junkyard area with the big spinning gears.

. And OH MY LORD! The 'MUSIC'! What is this godawful monstrosity I'm listening to? Was this in the JP version? It's simply terrible.

 

[Cep]

There's definitely more exploration in most JRPGs than FFXIII (at least pre-Pulse) but it's still more a story-driven genre than an exploration-driven one. WRPGs are where the major exploration is at while JRPGs usually just has the "illusion" of exploration outside a few exceptions.

Err, actually that it is not that clear cut, not at all.

Only way that is true is if you think that the Bethesda model for RPGs is the only one.

At most, you can say that WRPGs(especially the more recent ones) are dialogue driven.

Make no mistake, WRPGs are usually more open, and JRPGs are closed, but being a story-driven genre has not forced any concession in the other departments. At least not by this much.

 

[7Th]

No idea how this could be the most incomprehensible Final Fantasy you've ever played, unless you completely skipped over VIII.

To be honest, I think FFXIII has the most straightforward, simplistic Final Fantasy story since... FFV, maybe?

 

[Llyranor]

Most JRPGs have pretty mediocre dungeon design, anyhow. Some have pretty cool dungeons/puzzles (Golden Sun, what I remember of Lufia 2), but generally nothing to write home about. Perhaps that's why I'm not really missing elaborate dungeons in this game.

As for exploration, it also rarely affects my enjoyment of JRPGs. The main significant FF one was 6's WoR. I guess 4 and 5 had a little bit to get some weapons/summons and so on, but from 7-10 I just basically ignored all that and just went through the story; lacked the motivation to go do sidequests, for some reason, especially when it involved silly minigames.

I can see why they'd be dealbreakers, but it doesn't really affect me since I'm just here for the combat.

An illusion of exploration and freedom is still better zero exploration and freedom.

I wouldn't necessarily agree. I've gotten to the point where I played enough games that unless it features really good exploration, I find myself indifferent to its presence or absence.

 

[Ferrio]

This quote from Tycho on penny arcade hit home

Imagine my surprise when discovering that the dude with a chocobo literally roosting - roosting, sir - in his afro is the only character I have any affection for.

 

[WanderingWind]

No idea how this could be the most incomprehensible Final Fantasy you've ever played, unless you completely skipped over VIII.

Yeah, VIII was even worse in telling a cohesive story. Unless I find out all of the characters in FFXIII also grew up on an orphanage together and forgot about it.

That doesn't happen, right?

 

[Dresden]

Yeah, VIII was even worse in telling a cohesive story. Unless I find out all of the characters in FFXIII also grew up on an orphanage together and forgot about it.

That doesn't happen, right?

The mass amnesia was one of the worst things about the story. It was far more contrived than anything in XIII.

 

[Einbroch]

I love how buffs and debuffs are actually critical now.

In past FFs you maybe needed Float for a single fight or something of the like. I find myself buffing on any major encounter, and it makes a huge difference. Hell, even removing debuffs is critical in a few fights.

 

[7Th]

Yeah, VIII was even worse in telling a cohesive story. Unless I find out all of the characters in FFXIII also grew up on an orphanage together and forgot about it.

That doesn't happen, right?

There are no real plot-twists in FFXIII. The closest the game has to a plot-twist was pretty obvious from the very beginning and people guessed it out before the game was even released.

 

[Zalasta]

See how that works? Discussing the game negative points is just as valid as discussing the positives.

Feel free to critique with new insights, but when you're just repeating yourself (for some people, they've been doing it for months), it gets tiresome.

 

[Crash Station]

Err, actually that it is not that clear cut, not at all.

Only way that is true is if you think that the Bethesda model for RPGs is the only one.

At most, you can say that WRPGs(especially the more recent ones) are dialogue driven.

Make no mistake, WRPGs are usually more open, and JRPGs are closed, but being a story-driven genre has not forced any concession in the other departments. At least not by this much.

Well I know it's not that simple. I also can't say I have too much experience with WRPGs outside of the essentials and a few of the recent ones but there's definitely more reason to not follow a set path and go out and explore. I guess you can't really say that "isn't story driven" as much as you can say the priorities are different.

 

[Tideas]

The thing about Mass Effect or Elder Scroll is, they don't require you to read codex or library books (for ME2 maybe, if you didn't play ME1). From the main plot and side quests you can still get an idea what the game world is and what is going on at the moment. For FFXIII, it seems SE spent way more effort on 1080p CGI than writing a solid story. Plus the stupid japanese-french hybrid names in the game (l'cie, fal'cie, wtf?) only made the story even harder to understand.

wait...you're not joking? ME is the biggest offender of the whole "codex" thing. Actually, all bioware games are like that (ME, DA). If you do not read the codex of ME, you will know jack shit about the game and its world besides the fact that you want to stop a bad dude from trying to destroy the world.

 

[WanderingWind]

The mass amnesia was one of the worst things about the story. It was far more contrived than anything in XIII.

Amnesia is bad enough, but when you have mass amnesia, then you know you're just straight up out of ideas. Reminds me of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwiHKv77oG0

 

[Cep]

Well I know it's not that simple. I also can't say I have too much experience with WRPGs outside of the essentials and a few of the recent ones but there's definitely more reason to not follow a set path and go out and explore. I guess you can't really say that "isn't story driven" as much as you can say the priorities are different.

Out of curiosity, which ones? Not trying to belittle your point (though here you are essentially right), genuinely curious.

 

[Dresden]

wait...you're not joking? ME is the biggest offender of the whole "codex" thing. Actually, all bioware games are like that (ME, DA). If you do not read the codex of ME, you will know jack shit about the game and its world besides the fact that you want to stop a bad dude from trying to destroy the world.

No, the ME games do a good job of informing you about the world. The codex is there for sideline shit like explanations about the universal translators or mass effect fields.

I think I posted a day after the game came out that I didn't like the datalog at all. Still hasn't changed, except for one thing--I don't read it anymore. And XIII's story does a decent job at informing you of what the fuck is going on.

It's not like there's an entire dictionary you have to memorize. It just comes down to three terms--l'cie, fal'cie, and cie'th. Hell, they all involve 'cie.' The other shit like Cocoon, Gran Pulse, PSICOM, etc, etc... they usually are explained in time. Not every plot device needs to be explained as they come in.

 

[Yoshichan]

Oh my god. 6 hours later, I finally defeat mission 45. I'm literally shaking here. So many times I was _this_ close to beating him when he started shooting pollen like no tomorrow.

One star.

Bah.

 

[WanderingWind]

Feel free to critique with new insights, but when you're just repeating yourself (for some people, they've been doing it for months), it gets tiresome.

If there is smoke, there is a fire. People are complaining about the same things, because they are the biggest issues with the game. Now, if somebody comes in and complains that the game is ugly or something, that would be a new (trolling) complaint, but it wouldn't really be valid.

 

[Crash Station]

Out of curiosity, which ones? Not trying to belittle your point (though here you are essentially right*), genuinely curious.

Let me first say that I'm a bit biased toward the genre because the only one I liked is Diablo 2 (and Runescape if that counts). Other than that and the first Diablo, I haven't really played more than 4-5 hours of any given WRPG. Anyway, from what I remember, I've played

Planescape:Torment
Fallout 1-3
Fable 2
Torchilght (only like 20 minutes though)
Baldur's Gate
Summoner
Neverwinter Nights (again, only like 20 minutes)
Knights of the Old Republic (which I'd like to try again sometime)

Now there's probably a bunch I'm forgetting but that's mostly it.

 

[gamergirly]

Feel free to critique with new insights, but when you're just repeating yourself (for some people, they've been doing it for months), it gets tiresome.

Isnt it a good thing that it's the same type of problems and not new ones though?

 

[Cep]

Let me first say that I'm a bit biased toward the genre because the only one I liked is Diablo 2 (and Runescape if that counts). Other than that and the first Diablo, I haven't really played more than 4-5 hours of any given WRPG. Anyway, from what I remember, I've played.

Good man.

And I know you do not like the genre, I was just curious.

 

[Llyranor]

Torment is one of the - if not the - best interactive storydriven RPGs out there, what the crap? Just because there are sidequests which you can readily ignore doesn't mean the main story (and how storydriven it is) doesn't crush pretty much every other effort made ever since.

 

[Zoe]

Oh my god. 6 hours later, I finally defeat mission 45. I'm literally shaking here. So many times I was _this_ close to beating him when he started shooting pollen like no tomorrow.

One star.

Bah.

Spoiler

Death

The only way >_<

 

[usea]

This post may contain minor SPOILERS for ~ch4.

I have a really long list of things about this game that I feel are poor choices or just plain annoying, to varying degrees. At the same time, the overall design and several of the systems work together really well. It's definitely very fun to play at times. When things click in a tough fight, and you're switching paradigms every couple of seconds it feels awesome. That doesn't happen as often as it should, but when it does it's worth it.

I'm disappointed with the crystarium and the lack of options regarding character progression. FF12i, FF5, FFT, etc were super great in this regard. In those game I really felt like I was creating my own team. In this, I don't feel like I really have many options. (they can be summed up as bad vs good, instead of a variety). Also, how come you can't see which abilities you'll unlock later in a tree? I can't make an informed choice about where to spend my points without reading a guide on what stuff will be available down the line.

I hate the way you have no control over your party for a long long time, and characters are constantly joining or leaving and taking their equipment with them. The accessory Snow took with him was gone for like 10 hours.. That's incredibly annoying. FF12 was one of the best games about this. You got every character very near the beginning and nobody ever left. That was great.

The upgrade system is super annoying. Why doesn't it show you the exp multiplier a component adds? You have to use a guide. How come by the time you can upgrade effectively, you don't really need to upgrade anymore? The system is heavily slanted in favor of doing one massive upgrade worth a ton of gil, which you can't do until late game. I don't even want to mess with it at all, but just knowing it's there and I'd have to do some min/max activity to use it effectively is very frustrating to me.

The camera and movement controls could use a lot of work. They're unbelievably poor. The camera feels like it's on a mission to spite you. The way your guy moves when you first press/change a direction makes it tough just to navigate around.

I forget what else I've been bothered by, but it's a ton of things. Still, there are plenty of great things too, and so far I've been enjoying myself. I doubt it'll be a game I'll go back and play though, without exploration or much customization; it'd be the exact same experience.

 

[Flek]

720p wallpapers

http://i39.tinypic.com/9fwuup.png

http://i41.tinypic.com/2e2drw9.png

http://i39.tinypic.com/1z1ejqa.png