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[MetatronM]

In Dragon Quest, it equates to going back to old towns to do new sidequests.

In Suikoden, you can teleport to any place in the game, like in Dragon Quest, to recruit over 60 or so characters, build a castle, do quests and so on.

In Shin Megami Tensei games exploration means a lot of things: finding new demons, doing new dungeons, doing sidequests.

I don't see how either of the first two relates to exploring in a dungeon. DQ, in fact, is generally a PERFECT example of precisely what I was talking about, as it's chock full of archetypal point A to point B (and then frequently back to point A) dungeons.

And from what I played of SMT (Nocturne...and SMT1, why did I forget that?), I don't really recall any exploration in the dungeons, and nothing you're talking about there involves "exploration" anyway, with the possible exception of some of the most out of the way demons and fiends, which are, again, the exception and not the rule. Just lots of running around and grinding. Well...maybe in the Amala Network? Though even that wasn't really "exploring" so much as it was the place was gigantic.

I feel like you don't even understand the argument you had made in the first place.

Which is ironic given how freely you're willing to call everyone else ignorant and stupid.

 

[K' Dash]

As I said earlier in the thread, the process to get the shoes is fucking stupid as hell, but the shoes are invaluable after Chapter 11.

I have a tetra crown, right now I'm on chapter 11, can I still get/make them?

 

[Cep]

Torment is one of the - if not the - best interactive storydriven RPGs out there, what the crap? Just because there are sidequests which you can readily ignore doesn't mean the main story (and how storydriven it is) doesn't crush pretty much every other effort made ever since.

Agreed, but let us not start this shit here.

 

[ElFly]

I think it's kind of silly, at this point, to complain about how linear the game is, and the lack of towns. Everyone mentioned that in every review, it was prominently mentioned in every impression in the japanese version thread, etc etc. If you think that exploration is a key part of a jrpg (which is a valid opinion) you shouldn't have bought this game, period. It'd be like getting Super Mario Galaxy and then whining about how 2D mario was way better.

Now, the plot/characters are up for criticism. Personally, I find the plot to be very engaging and only the Vanille/Sazh sections have been "downs" for me. I just tried to avoid every enemy encounter in them and finisht them ASAP.

I agree that there hasn't been a lot of exposition and world building in comparison with other FFs, but IMHO it's a good trade for a plot that always keeps moving forward non-stop. In fact, I think the game hurts from the Gran Pulse exploration phase, because I just want to keep the plot advancing, but the game is balanced assuming you did some missions here and there. Maybe that should have been better left as post game content.

 

[Cep]

I think it's kind of silly, at this point, to complain about how linear the game is, and the lack of towns. Everyone mentioned that in every review, it was prominently mentioned in every impression in the japanese version thread, etc etc. If you think that exploration is a key part of a jrpg (which is a valid opinion) you shouldn't have bought this game, period. It'd be like getting Super Mario Galaxy and then whining about how 2D mario was way better.

Or you can like the game, and disapprove of certain design choices.

Also, many tend to avoid any and all spoiler material so...

 

[WanderingWind]

Agreed, but let us not start this shit here.

Can't...stop...staring...at Fang. It's almost as mesmerizing as WormDundee's avatar. Almost.

 

[Zalasta]

Isnt it a good thing that it's the same type of problems and not new ones though?

Kind of neutral on that. I don't feel I need to defend the game, it is what it is. So if someone come up with new issues with it, it won't change my feelings one way or another. At least it'll get new conversations going, rather than the same people beating a dead horse. I don't mind the critiques, but rather the ones that is doing the same critiquing for the past weeks if not longer.

I think the crystarium lacks depth. I don't believe paradigm is balanced for all characters, so for certain party make up it is utilized less than others. I think the story was hard to grasp at first, but eventually "got it" without needing to read the datalogues. FF13 is flawed, but it still does a lot of things well.

 

[BocoDragon]

In between sessions of XIII, I've been playing another game... my recently repurchased copy of "Final Fantasy III" on SNES (FF6).

I noticed two things... first, trying to reconcile the two games as part of the same series makes my head spin... in a good way.

And second: Even the great FF6 is not that different in linearity from FF13! Dungeons play out almost exactly the same: If there is ever a deviation from the main path, it takes you for a little loop around to a treasure chest, and then you have to make your way back to the main path. It's almost identical! Sure, there is a world map, but for the first part of the game, you are actually fenced in by maintain ranges.. there is only one path to go along.

Where FF6 is superior to 13 is in the sense that it better preserves the illusion of having free reign in a larger world. Town segments give you a home base.. maybe it makes sense to grind outside the town, return with more money to buy things, and chat with townspeople. This "non-linear" act gives you the feeling of being anchored: you actually exist in this world for awhile.. you needn't be funneled along the path so quickly. You feel like you exist in some small part of an open-sandbox for awhile, even if that is completely illusion. There is also the existence of the world map itself: which still functions much like an FF13 linear path, but something about the alternation of dungeon/world map doesn't feel like a straight line, even if it is. We are also given larger "playpens" of fenced-in mountain ranges which feel much larger than an FF13 path.

Basically, in terms of linearity, FF13 is really only a couple degrees away from FF6: and most of the difference is due to FF6 hiding its linearity better. 13 could have used a few more open spaces... maybe a branching pathway or two, and it would offer us as much non-linearity as any classic FF has in the past.

 

[desu]

Spoiler

Death

The only way >_<

That, its just so much easier .

 

[usea]

If there is smoke, there is a fire. People are complaining about the same things, because they are the biggest issues with the game. Now, if somebody comes in and complains that the game is ugly or something, that would be a new (trolling) complaint, but it wouldn't really be valid.

Uh, the game is certainly less than attractive just as often as it looks great. Like during one flashback where you can go into a bar on the beach, I was really distracted at how poorly stuff looked. I couldn't tell whether this shadow on the wall above a bed was a shadow or some sort of weird wallpaper or what; it was like 3 different jagged tones of darker tan. And hair looks pretty bad, even in motion. It's super jagged. And I've seen a bunch of plants that are just plain bad.

The game also looks fabulous at times, in some places. I saw a little sign advertising hanging on something as I walked by, and it was genuinely really cool. It even had little flares presumably from where the image was being projected.

I didn't originally mention any of this in my post since I don't really care about graphics at all, but then I read your post so I felt compelled to say something. It's not automatically trolling if you don't like the way ff13 looks.

 

[Dresden]

Basically, most complaints about XIII would stop if they just let you shop around in Nautilus or Palumpolum. Especially Nautilus, that place was rife for some old-school mindless talking or shopping. I would've loved tapping on X repeatedly for mindless chatter that might unlock the right dialog choice so I could move on with the plot.

And the game really is inconsistent in how it looks. One moment you could be going HOLY SHIT and the next, the textures are World of Warcraft-esque. This is especially true in the forest that Sazh goes through, where the ground looks like something out of WoW, then you get to the cliff and you see miles upon miles of verdant green and you're like HOLY MOTHER OF GOD.

 

[BocoDragon]

Basically, most complaints about XIII would stop if they just let you shop around in Nautilus or Palumpolum. Especially Nautilus, that place was rife for some old-school mindless talking or shopping. I would've loved tapping on X repeatedly for mindless chatter that might unlock the right dialog choice so I could move on with the plot.

True! And also, if they put a town sequence near the beginning of the game, you'd have a better hint that the 10-15 hour trek through a tube was going to have some variation later on...

 

[WanderingWind]

In between sessions of XIII, I've been playing another game... my recently repurchased copy of "Final Fantasy III" on SNES (FF6).

I noticed two things... first, trying to reconcile the two games as part of the same series makes my head spin... in a good way.

And second: Even the great FF6 is not that different in linearity from FF13! Dungeons play out almost exactly the same: If there is ever a deviation from the main path, it takes you for a little loop around to a treasure chest, and then you have to make your way back to the main path. It's almost identical! Sure, there is a world map, but for the first part of the game, you are actually fenced in by maintain ranges.. there is only one path to go along.

Where FF6 is superior to 13 is in the sense that it better preserves the illusion of having free reign in a larger world. Town segments give you a home base.. maybe it makes sense to grind outside the town, return with more money to buy things, and chat with townspeople. This "non-linear" act gives you the feeling of being anchored: you actually exist in this world for awhile.. you needn't be funneled along the path so quickly. You feel like you exist in some small part of an open-sandbox for awhile, even if that is completely illusion. There is also the existence of the world map itself: which still functions much like an FF13 linear path, but something about the alternation of dungeon/world map doesn't feel like a straight line, even if it is. We are also given larger "playpens" of fenced-in mountain ranges which feel much larger than an FF13 path.

Basically, in terms of linearity, FF13 is really only a couple degrees away from FF6: and most of the difference is due to FF6 hiding its linearity better. 13 could have used a few more open spaces... maybe a branching pathway or two, and it would offer us as much non-linearity as any classic FF has in the past.

I'm playing it on the DS right now, and I have to say, I sincerely disagree with everything you just said. Invisible walls, hidden treasures, secret spots on the world map, shadow's backstory, WoR, piloting the airship around to find new spots for gau's techs/ultimate weapons, breaks between the dungeons like the Opera House, getting the Genji glove in the beginning of the game based on your choices...

Again, maybe FFXIII has some openness coming. People assure me it's coming. But to say that the first 20 hours of FFVI are barely less linear than FFXIII is erroneous. In fact, I'm almost certain I'd like XIII a whole lot better than I do currently, if I was either new to JRPGs or if I wasn't playing FFVI too.


EDIT: Well, apparently I was wrong about it being universally accepted as an attractive game. Very well. :lol

 

[Regulus Tera]

If there is smoke, there is a fire. People are complaining about the same things, because they are the biggest issues with the game. Now, if somebody comes in and complains that the game is ugly or something, that would be a new (trolling) complaint, but it wouldn't really be valid.

IMO the game is freaking goddamn ugly. I hate the plastic look of all the characters (they look like mannequins (though not at the level of PSX-era FF FMVs)), the character design is all over the place, and the monster design is absolutely retarded. Not to mention monster designs get reused way too quickly.

It has some beautiful landscapes and backgrounds, I must admit.

P.S. Hate all the animations. There's no weight to how the characters walk, run, or attack, and the staggering/launching animations look unintentionally hilarious. Plus, I really miss the individual "monster death" animations from FFXII. Vaporising into a bunch of black goo is not comparable to how organic and damaging (and hurtful) the death animations of monsters were in FFXII.

 

[Peff]

And the game really is inconsistent in how it looks. One moment you could be going HOLY SHIT and the next, the textures are World of Warcraft-esque. This is especially true in the forest that Sazh goes through, where the ground looks like something out of WoW, then you get to the cliff and you see miles upon miles of verdant green and you're like HOLY MOTHER OF GOD.

That area was so weird. Once you go down the cliff and are near the river you see water that is a plain texture worse than FFX, and then with the rain/sun it looks awesome again.

Plus the infamous FFXII in PCSX2 loooks better than FFXIII which was taken from there too :lol

 

[Y2Kev]

Oh my god. 6 hours later, I finally defeat mission 45. I'm literally shaking here. So many times I was _this_ close to beating him when he started shooting pollen like no tomorrow.

One star.

Bah.

I love you, yoshichan.

 

[Zalasta]

Basically, most complaints about XIII would stop if they just let you shop around in Nautilus or Palumpolum. Especially Nautilus, that place was rife for some old-school mindless talking or shopping. I would've loved tapping on X repeatedly for mindless chatter that might unlock the right dialog choice so I could move on with the plot.

I couldn't wait to get out of Nautilus. It felt absolutely a waste of time running from one end to another, standing around listening in on meaningless conversations. Except for that one cutscene which explained a little bit of the world, the town served no purpose. With how little money you have up to that point, having shops wouldn't change anything because you won't be able to buy much anyway.

 

[BocoDragon]

I'm playing it on the DS right now, and I have to say, I sincerely disagree with everything you just said. Invisible walls, hidden treasures, secret spots on the world map, shadow's backstory, WoR, piloting the airship around to find new spots for gau's techs/ultimate weapons, breaks between the dungeons like the Opera House, getting the Genji glove in the beginning of the game based on your choices...

Again, maybe FFXIII has some openness coming. People assure me it's coming. But to say that the first 20 hours of FFVI are barely less linear than FFXIII is erroneous. In fact, I'm almost certain I'd like XIII a whole lot better than I do currently, if I was either new to JRPGs or if I wasn't playing FFVI too.

I was really only comparing the world of balance to XIII pre-Gran Pulse.. (which is where XIII does have openness)

Once you get to control the airship, perhaps VI leaps far beyond XIII.

VI is my favorite game of all time, so I don't want to get backed into a corner trying to say it's the same as one of the most flawed games of all time: FFXIII. I'm just pointing out that there are great similarities between the early sections of these games, and the reason XIII feels oppressively linear is mostly due to artstyle and design choices. (such as making a path through overworld + dungeons as in VI into one literal path in XIII) It's not that the early FFVI was that much more open.

 

[usea]

and the monster design is absolutely retarded. Not to mention monster designs get reused way too quickly.

I think it has some pretty cool enemies. I loved the flanitors, wyverns, scalebeasts, and I fought a plant bulb looking boss that walked on his long fingernails that was pretty cool too. Some enemies are bland (especially the techy and humanoid ones) but to me some of it has been pretty great.

 

[Dresden]

I couldn't wait to get out of Nautilus. It felt absolutely a waste of time running from one end to another, standing around listening in on meaningless conversations. Except for that one cutscene which explained a little bit of the world, the town served no purpose. With how little money you have up to that point, having shops wouldn't change anything because you won't be able to buy much anyway.

As Himuro so meaningfully explained lol ), it's about the illusion of freedom and choice. You not being able to buy anything is meaningless compared to the fact that some degree of choice was presented to the player.

 

[7Th]

I was really only comparing the world of balance to XIII pre-Gran Pulse.. (which is where XIII does have openness)

Once you get to control the airship, perhaps VI leaps far beyond XIII.

VI is my favorite game of all time, so I don't want to get backed into a corner trying to say it's the same as one of the most flawed games of all time: FFXIII. I'm just pointing out that there are great similarities between the early sections of these games, and the reason XIII feels oppressively linear is mostly due to artstyle and design choices. It's not that the early FFVI was that much more open.

Why? FFVI is also one of the most flawed games of all time.

 

[Scythesurge]

I think it has some pretty cool enemies. I loved the flanitors, wyverns, scalebeasts, and I fought a plant bulb looking boss that walked on his long fingernails that was pretty cool too. Some enemies are bland (especially the techy and humanoid ones) but to me some of it has been pretty great.

The monster designs are awesome in XIII for the most part.

 

[BocoDragon]

Why? FFVI is also one of the most flawed games of all time.

Are we going there?

 

[commish]

Why? FFVI is also one of the most flawed games of all time.

Flawed in the videogame world means "Didn't suit my tastes." It's pointless to argue about it.

 

[7Th]

Are we going there?

I don't think so, commish summarized everything pretty well.

 

[Scythesurge]

Btw Boco, after chapter 4 I was starting to hate Vanille, but since then I am back on VDF.

 

[usea]

I was really only comparing the world of balance to XIII pre-Gran Pulse.. (which is where XIII does have openness)

Once you get to control the airship, perhaps VI leaps far beyond XIII.

VI is my favorite game of all time, so I don't want to get backed into a corner trying to say it's the same as one of the most flawed games of all time: FFXIII. I'm just pointing out that there are great similarities between the early sections of these games, and the reason XIII feels oppressively linear is mostly due to artstyle and design choices. It's not that the early FFVI was that much more open.

FF13 is basically one very long corridor. You go from one end to the other, and there is almost never even a branching pathway. You know how in ff6 you'll come to a fork in a dungeon and you know one way has a chest and the other leads to the end, so you have to pick one and explore it to find the chest? FF13 basically never has that (when it does, you can -see- the chest like 10 feet on one side of a translucent wall; no exploring).

I mean hell, in ff6 right after figaro castle submerges in the beginning and you go toward south figaro, you have like 3 different places you could go on the world map. And before that, at figaro castle, you have the whole place to roam around and find treasures and talk to people for more story. You can even go and see the people in the jail who you'll meet later, and you even come back to the jail for a major plot point later in the game. FF13 is more like a movie, where you hold up between scenes.

FF6 is much more open. They're totally, completely different in that regard. Not just after the first 20 hours. Even in the first 5 hours.

 

[Amir0x]

This game is just pure awesome. I cannot believe the lower scores some people are giving this game. Well actually I can, I am betting some those people gave up on the game within the first few chapters and based their reviews on that which is so so wrong. If I were to throw blame at Squenix it would be for dragging their feets on those chapters and making people wait till chapter 10-11 to get into the REAL game. Or at least they should have had a disclaimer saying "Please, play this game till chapter 11 before making a decison"

SquareEnix's disclaimer should be that people should wait 25 hours of a 40 hour game before it starts to be decent?

If nearly 2/3 of a game is handicapped, is the game only 2/3 shitty, or is it 1/3 awesome? Is 1/3 awesome enough to get "higher scores"?

The battle system is just so beautiful and wonderful. It's like the furthering idea of the FFX and FFXII battle systems and sphere grids taken to their blissful conclusion. I can't understand people bitching about not being able to directly control all the characters or the auto option for your leader. I just want to scream YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG! Thats why you all are losing so much and complaining about enemies and bosses. The system is in the paradigm shifting and for once in a RPG having to utilize ALL your classes. All those buffs and debuffs that people never use and just hit the fight button repeatedly with the occasional lighting or ice doesn't cut it. It makes battles interesting again, I don't understand why people aren't excited about this, you aren't just smashing x button to fight, you have to think and strategize your battles with staggering.

My problem is I'm not really thinking at all. I honestly can't remember a time I've thought less about a FF battle system. Now, I have not got up to chapter 11 and we'll see about these 'training wheels'... but should I have to wait that long through an excruciatingly terrible story merely to get to something that approaches workable?

Nearly every single battle so far has been approached by me the exact same way.

Start battle,

Commando/Ravager/Saboteur -> Attacks/1st Layer of Debuffs Cast - Paradigm Shift to Ravager/Ravager/Saboteur -> ATB Cancel for extra attack -> Attack again using same class -> Paradigm Shift to original layout for another ATB Cancel -> repeat

If you couple this with a first strike attack? Forgettabout it. Round over in less than 30 secs.

This setup is so explicitly overpowered that I have not got anything less than a five star rating once. Nor have I died once outside of Shiva, even facing the "hard" (that's what the game acted like anyway) steelbacks and Wyverns or whatever the fuck in Chap 6.

Let's also discuss the Crystarium. Is this an 'evolved' Sphere Grid? it's one of the worst advancement systems I've ever taken part in. Basically once you unlock the classes for your character, you're just guiding it down a line to advance that class. There is little to no decision making involved. Stats are scaled back to essential nothingness, and for the first 60% of the game, you'll have advanced all your stats to max by the end of a chapter until you arbitrarily beat some boss to advance the next step in the line.

It's interesting that the Crystarium is exactly as linear as the level design is. Is this a problem with HD consoles too?

Persona 3 is a game where you control one ally, and a wrong move can cost your life - but it is explicitly balanced to a series of weaknesses, and provides an insane amount of flexibility in how you approach each battle. Your persona loudout is like Paradigms, only you hand carve your "class" how you like, fusing and tinkering until you have something that works. And even then, you'll be switching about between personas like a mad man to get the battle in your favor.

In FFXII, I was like a mad scientist, tearing apart gambit setups with feverish necessity, always tossing about something that didn't work for what does. Depending on the enemy I was going to face, I'd often jump into battles I tell each of my characters I'd want them to cast something differently - a feat that rarely is necessary in FFXIII except on the rare boss which even then I barely have taken notice of.

In FFXIII, there's not many feasible choices. There's like 3 or 4 feasible loudouts, and you'll be switching between them while you sit back with glazed eyes and the game autokills everything in 30 seconds. It's so boring.

Now, you say, "wait until Chapter 11!" Fair enough. But if that turns out to be the case where the battle system finally works at that late in the game, I think it's fair to say the game is significantly flawed and probably deserving of these scores you're decrying.

That's my word.

 

[dreamer3kx]

IMO the game is freaking goddamn ugly. I hate the plastic look of all the characters (they look like mannequins (though not at the level of PSX-era FF FMVs)), the character design is all over the place, and the monster design is absolutely retarded. Not to mention monster designs get reused way too quickly.

It has some beautiful landscapes and backgrounds, I must admit.

P.S. Hate all the animations. There's no weight to how the characters walk, run, or attack, and the staggering/launching animations look unintentionally hilarious. Plus, I really miss the individual "monster death" animations from FFXII. Vaporising into a bunch of black goo is not comparable to how organic and damaging (and hurtful) the death animations of monsters were in FFXII.

Totally disagree, the game is beautiful, Im not getting the that they look like mannequins thing, the characters look absolutely great to me at least, also I think SE has the best monster designs. Playing all the shitty unreal engine buggy games, this is a breath of fresh air, the engine is superb, everything is silky smooth.

 

[luxarific]

720p wallpapers

http://i39.tinypic.com/9fwuup.png

Nice, except for the fact that Serah looks like she's a 12-year-old sitting on her uncle's lap. WHY, SQUARE, WHYYYYYYYY

The characters look great too, except for Lightning. Her legs are far too thin, particularly her thighs. You can see the flatness on the inside of her thighs, as if they've been cut away. Stick legs are not pretty...

Glad that I'm not the only person who hates her legs. I've no idea what's propelling her through all this running around/climbing/jumping - she has no muscles in her legs. Her arms are nearly as bad.

Otherwise, I like the designs. I'm convinced that Snow is using his hankie to cover a bald patch, though.

EDIT: Except for the Afro-Bird. The Chocobo Chick is so cute, but having it hide-out in his hair is just stupid.

 

[BocoDragon]

I don't think so, commish summarized everything pretty well.

Was that a stealth argument against what I said about FFXIII being flawed? I actually really enjoy this game, but I defined flawed as "whoa this game is linear as hell, not everyone is going to like this, and we're going to have debates about this for years".. which is pretty much true, yes? FFVI, on the other hand, is generally regarded non-controversially as a classic. One of these games has a much more controversial game design than the other, regardless of one's personal feeling on either game.

Btw Boco, after chapter 4 I was starting to hate Vanille, but since then I am back on VDF.

Good show!

It's not like she's my favorite character in the game, either.. but IMO her character rounds out the cast in this game. You need to have the cheerful one, when everyone's trying to murder each other, take down governments and whatnot.

 

[usea]

Glad that I'm not the only person who hates her legs. I've no idea what's propelling her through all this running around/climbing/jumping - she has no muscles in her legs. Her arms are nearly as bad.

I know plenty of real people whose legs look like that (the super thin, flat thighs). But still, they're not particularly athletic or anything. Her legs have been very distracting to me as well.

 

[Dresden]

Nice, except for the fact that Serah looks like she's a 12-year-old sitting on her uncle's lap. WHY, SQUARE, WHYYYYYYYY



Glad that I'm not the only person who hates her legs. I've no idea what's propelling her through all this running around/climbing/jumping - she has no muscles in her legs. Her arms are nearly as bad.

Otherwise, I like the designs. I'm convinced that Snow is using his hankie to cover a bald patch, though.

EDIT: Except for the Afro-Bird. The Chocobo Chick is so cute, but having it hide-out in his hair is just stupid.

I didn't mind Lightning's legs. They're not exactly sticks, they just look lean. She's not supposed to be a sex symbol, hence why Vanille has curvy thighs (although they don't approach Chun Li's thighs).

I wish I could dredge up the old argument a few months back when some people pointed out how small Serah looked and there were Serah defenders everywhere. She looks 12 and Snow looks like a pedo.

 

[Undeux]

So, I'm about to finish chapter 3, and I'm just wondering when the game's going to pick up. I've liked it more since the Crystarium or whatever was unlocked, but I feel like there's got to be more to it than this, both gameplay and story-wise. Should I keep trudging along, or is this pretty much what I'm gonna get in future chapters? It's not horrible, but this is probably the most underwhelmed I've ever been by the first several hours of an FF.

 

[roxya]

Ok, Himuro is right in saying this is horrible story telling. I've been paying attention my entire playtime (about 18 hours @ Chapter 9).

All I know is that there are l'Cie, Fal'Cie and humans? l'Cie are humans that have been exposed to other Fal'Cie? Cocoon is like a moon above Pulse? Hell, I don't even know if I'm still on Cocoon or Pulse right now. I have absolutely NO sense of culture or past when it comes to any place or anybody in this game so far.

I can't comprehend how someone in chapter 9 isn't clear on the whole fal'Cie, l'Cie thing. They kind of bring it up over and over. Same for the Cocoon/Pulse thing. Maybe I don't speak for everyone, but I thought all of this stuff is made pretty clear without having to read datalogs.

 

[Dresden]

So, I'm about to finish chapter 3, and I'm just wondering when the game's going to pick up. I've liked it more since the Crystarium or whatever was unlocked, but I feel like there's got to be more to it than this, both gameplay and story-wise. Should I keep trudging along, or is this pretty much what I'm gonna get in future chapters? It's not horrible, but this is probably the most underwhelmed I've ever been by the first several hours of an FF.

Slow pacing at the beginning is definitely a killer. I'd say keep going. Chapter 4 is the biggest drag in the game though. But chapter 5 opens up a bit more, chapter 6 is beautiful, and chapter 7 has enough shit happening to keep you busy.

 

[Dedication Through Light]

No idea how this could be the most incomprehensible Final Fantasy you've ever played, unless you completely skipped over VIII.

The only weird thing with this game is the 3 different l'cie: Pulse l'cie, Cacoon l'cie, and Sanctum l'cie, I guess; or at least it seems that there are three types.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

So, I'm about to finish chapter 3, and I'm just wondering when the game's going to pick up. I've liked it more since the Crystarium or whatever was unlocked, but I feel like there's got to be more to it than this, both gameplay and story-wise. Should I keep trudging along, or is this pretty much what I'm gonna get in future chapters? It's not horrible, but this is probably the most underwhelmed I've ever been by the first several hours of an FF.

Keep going. You haven't even unlocked weapon upgrading yet, and there's still a lot more to come story wise, not to mention some really great locations on the way.

 

[Tom Penny]

And the game really is inconsistent in how it looks. One moment you could be going HOLY SHIT and the next, the textures are World of Warcraft-esque. This is especially true in the forest that Sazh goes through, where the ground looks like something out of WoW, then you get to the cliff and you see miles upon miles of verdant green and you're like HOLY MOTHER OF GOD.

I'd hate to hear what you have to say about Fallout 3 graphics.

 

[mcdomination]

I can't comprehend how someone in chapter 9 isn't clear on the whole fal'Cie, l'Cie thing. They kind of bring it up over and over. Same for the Cocoon/Pulse thing. Maybe I don't speak for everyone, but I thought all of this stuff is made pretty clear without having to read datalogs.

I understand the very basic concept of the Fal'Cie and l'cie, (l'cie are people who come in contact with Fal'Cie or other l'cie...but what the f$#% are Fal'Cie? Are they a different race? Does anyone have any history of them?) but that's all they give you. There is no who, what, when, why, where, etc... No gripping hook that compels you to learn more about anybody or anything.

It's like saying plants grow because of the rain....and that's all the explanation you get. There is absolutely nothing gripping about that. They need to go into a bit more detail to create a mystery or just a pinch of something compelling to keep you hooked....but alas, nada.

 

[Cep]

The crafting system is awful. Why is that something to look forward to?

Variation.

 

[Zalasta]

As Himuro so meaningfully explained lol ), it's about the illusion of freedom and choice. You not being able to buy anything is meaningless compared to the fact that some degree of choice was presented to the player.

I could just as easily argue that having a choice you would not or could not take is not really a choice at all (same with the blacked out conversation selection in ME). Requiring such illusion is silly and does not make a compelling argument.

 

[Peff]

The only weird thing with this game is the 3 different l'cie: Pulse l'cie, Cacoon l'cie, and Sanctum l'cie, I guess; or at least it seems that there are three types.

There are only Cocoon L'Cie and Pulse L'Cie, which are "on war" with each other. The Sanctum L'Cie are still considered Cocoon L'Cie.

I think an International version could potentially fix several problems people find with the game. Eliminating a bit of what's already there (Chapter 1 could be added to the intro CG in five minutes and you wouldn't lose much, for example) and adding more open areas with little sidequests/minigames in between some of the chapters would go a long way.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

The crafting system is awful. Why is that something to look forward to?

I was mentioning that there's more gameplay wise that hasn't kicked in yet. I don't think it's awful, although I do wish it was a bit more complex. It's not bad, though, and it's good for customizing your characters' setups.

 

[BocoDragon]

FF13 is basically one very long corridor. You go from one end to the other, and there is almost never even a branching pathway. You know how in ff6 you'll come to a fork in a dungeon and you know one way has a chest and the other leads to the end, so you have to pick one and explore it to find the chest? FF13 basically never has that (when it does, you can -see- the chest like 10 feet on one side of a translucent wall; no exploring).

There is something more transparent about the way 13 has simple "treasure chest forks" off the main path, that's true... but make no mistake: in FFVI they are still treasure chest forks. Perhaps they better give the illusion that they are actual alternate paths through the dungeon... and perhaps the treasure is actually hidden in another "room" altogether making the trick seem less obvious, but the actual design is the same: One main path through a dungeon, small branching diversions to treasures. My theory above was that the VI design style hides this better. Something about the overhead 2D art has the "main path" snaking all through the game space, with the divergent paths looping underneath the main path and even taking you into other "rooms" (something modern 3D games don't generally do). It's still the same underlying structure, though. It's not as if you have actual alternate paths through most dungeons in FFVI. Underneath it all, an FF13 path = an FF6 dungeon, but the 6 design hides it so much better.

I mean hell, in ff6 right after figaro castle submerges in the beginning and you go toward south figaro, you have like 3 different places you could go on the world map. And before that, at figaro castle, you have the whole place to roam around and find treasures and talk to people for more story. You can even go and see the people in the jail who you'll meet later, and you even come back to the jail for a major plot point later in the game. FF13 is more like a movie, where you hold up between scenes.

How much different is it functionally though? Yes, 13 has no town sequences... so no talking to prisoners and all that. But the land of Figaro isn't exactly Oblivion either. Really, aside from town/NPC stuff, you have the option of fighting monsters, buying something at a shop, or continuing along the only path to South Figaro.. which is a cave with one path and a few treasure chest forks. Then you have a small corralled mountain area of south figaro with a town, a shop, an area to fight monsters, and then the only place to go is Mt. Koltz. You are driven along this linear path until you gain control of the airship after the Magitek factory. Aside from the town/NPC stuff, 13's tube is identical.

Hear me now: VI is much, much better. But the difference between the two games isn't that huge. It's not a case of an open world vs a tube. It's a case of two mostly linear games (in the early parts anyway), but VI gives you more things to idle your time with within that tube (towns, NPCs,), and the tube disguises itself more carefully by snaking through world maps, dungeons, etc.

 

[depths20XX]

Oh, of course. But to say what he's saying is ridiculous.

An illusion of exploration and freedom is still better zero exploration and freedom.

Was it really that ridiculous? It's cool if you're just trying to "get" me on messageboard but, JRPG's have always felt like just grinding through mobs and defeating bosses until you reach the end. I never really feel like I'm exploring the world in most of them, just along for the ride. If you're just saying you want more illusion of exploration or a fleshed out world then yeah, I can understand that. Maybe I was an ass in my first reply to you.

 

[mcdomination]

There are only Cocoon L'Cie and Pulse L'Cie, which are "on war" with each other. The Sanctum L'Cie are still considered Cocoon L'Cie.

I think an International version could potentially fix several problems people find with the game. Eliminating a bit of what's already there (Chapter 1 could be added to the intro CG in five minutes and you wouldn't lose much, for example) and adding more open areas with little sidequests/minigames in between some of the chapters would go a long way.

So, humans turn into l'Cie only if a Fal'Cie marks them and they turn into l'cie? Can't humans turn into l"cie if they are in contact with other l'Cie...which is the whole premis of the purge? If so, why don't the soldiers or Hope's father turn into l'Cie when in contact with the group of "Heroes".....

I hate that word now....Thanks, Dudebro...er Snow

 

[marathonfool]

Ok, I'm having fun with my all-girl squad of Lightning, Fang, and Vanille. The double Saboteur is all kinds of fun. :lol

I'm thinking of switching up my play style completely now that some of these battles are longer.

I'm thinking of making Vanille my party leader, slap on her Mistilteinn weapon(upgraded) that Power Boosts an KOed ally. Put her in a team with Snow and Hope. Have Snow be a Commando with multiple critical boosts, make Hope a hard hitting Ravager low HP character.

This setup is for some of the longer battles. Start with debuffs. Let Snow and Hope get KO'ed and bring them back. Buff them with Hope. Go to town.

Only question is do the KO'ed boosts stack? Can I let them die multiple times for massive boosts? :lol

 

[Scythesurge]

It gives variation to the game. It means I can do this, or this, or that...and still come back for more. Without that you have the bare essentials, and the bare essentials can be boring.

The bare essentials are exactly what they were going for in XIII. I actually appreciate that, yet still feel that they could have done it better.

 

[LiK]

well, Chapter 10 done. gotta say that the dungeon was incredibly boring. some tough enemies but not too bad and the bosses were alright. didn't have any trouble with them.

Spoiler

Rains or whatever was easy. only had to retry against Fang's Eidolin

.