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[CruxisMana]

Long battles of attrition with lots of healing/defense are cheap with no risk - the game is encouraging you to take risks with your strategy.

But when you've just spent 10-15 minutes chipping away at a boss, just for him to cast Doom on you when you have no chance of winning is a little cheap.

It's a waste of time more than anything else, especially since the game is punishing me for being slow when my strategy, as a whole, is working fine.

EDIT: In short, I agree with Himuro.

 

[ZephyrFate]

I finally fought Adamantoise and managed to get a dropping.....Platinum Ingot. Two questions:

1. What can I do with Platinum Ingot?
2. I thought I'm supposed to get Trapezedron (sp) from this creature? No? Where can I get Traps from then?

Traps are stupidly difficult (or stupidly not-difficult) to get, depending on your luck. Platinum Ingots sell for 150k, the highest-selling farmable item in the game. Trapozedrons give you the ability to evolve to Tier 3 in any weapon series, but you need the Platinum Ingots since it takes 1.5mil gil or so to max each Tier 3 weapon.

Equip Collector's Catalog if you want more Ingots, or Connoisseur's Catalog (the upgraded Collector's Catalog) for more Traps, since Ingots are a Common drop and Traps are a Rare drop.

 

[mjemirzian]

So the game's answer is to just cast doom? That's why I said that's not strategic. That just sounds cheap and idiotic.

If you've spent 10+ minutes on a boss fight and haven't had a trouble with the fight in the least, and the only reason the game casts doom is because you've spent too much time fighting it, that doesn't really sound like a good answer.

How about giving the bosses less hp and more hard hitting hits?

But that's just me.

Would you rather the boss enrage and one shot the whole party after a certain time? The effect would be the same. No boss fight should take more than 10 mins if your stats and gear are appropriate. Most take far less than that.

As I said in my last post to you that you ignored a few pages back, there is more to challenge than threats to your HP meter. Playing more efficiently and killing something quickly (speed/time) is also a form of challenge. The game rewards you for doing so with the 5 star rating.

 

[Replicant]

Traps are stupidly difficult (or stupidly not-difficult) to get, depending on your luck. Platinum Ingots sell for 150k, the highest-selling farmable item in the game. Trapozedrons give you the ability to evolve to Tier 3 in any weapon series, but you need the Platinum Ingots since it takes 1.5mil gil or so to max each Tier 3 weapon.

Equip Collector's Catalog if you want more Ingots, or Connoisseur's Catalog (the upgraded Collector's Catalog) for more Traps, since Ingots are a Common drop and Traps are a Rare drop.

Wow....Ingots are common drop? T_T I had to restart at least a few times just to get any dropping. Ugh...But then again I didn't have Connoisseur Catalog (only had Collector's) so that probably explains it.

And oh, if I upgraded Collector's to Connoisseur's, I can still get Ingots from time to time, right?

 

[Gattsu25]

How is that a remotely good answer to making a game more challenging? This isn't Jet Set Radio.

I'm not sure I follow. Jet Grind Radio was awesome. In an unrelated manner, RPGs that discourage 20 minute long boss fights are awesome.

 

[BocoDragon]

But when you've just spent 10-15 minutes chipping away at a boss, just for him to cast Doom on you when you have no chance of winning is a little cheap.

It's a waste of time more than anything else, especially since the game is punishing me for.

It isn't working fine though. If you think you can just rav/com/heal all the way to the end, you aren't actually winning. Your small, safe gains should be punished. The game has the whole stagger meter aspect for a reason... it's all about finding effective ways to drive it up, and effective ways to take advantage of it once staggered.. If you fail to do this efficiently you are talking about wide variations in the time it takes to beat the boss. This is why a time constraint makes perfect sense.

 

[ZephyrFate]

Wow....Ingots are common drop? T_T I had to restart at least a few times just to get any dropping. Ugh...But then again I didn't have Connoisseur Catalog (only had Collector's) so that probably explains it.

And oh, if I upgraded Collector's to Connoisseur's, I can still get Ingots from time to time, right?

Yes. You get more than one Collector's Catalog, btw, by doing Missions. The way the formula works is that it rolls for a rare drop first, then a common drop, then a shroud drop. I've still gotten Ingots with the Conn. Catalog on, because while it raises your frequency of a Rare drop, you can still get a common drop anyway. That actually pissed me off, because I need Traps more than Ingots right now.

 

[Magnus]

Sorry man, I guess I'm retarded. So much incomprehensible generic metal is flying around in half the vid it became difficult to tell what was attacking who half the time. It was exactly like watching Revenge of the Fallen on a large screen. You just lose track of character agency, direction, etc -- and with the hyper-gravity physics of XIII's cutscenes, everything's just flying everywhere and the jumps and flips are just too fast to be aesthetically pleasing, imo. I got a headache.

Nevermind that you spend a minute trying to figure out who's actually involved. Who are these racers and why is the party attacking them? What is this event, and where (you learn where it is later, but it'd be nice to know what an important place this is beforehand)? What's the giant green shit they fly out of at the start?

It's all flash, no substance, no proper setup.

And I seriously didn't realize Doom counters existed outside of Eidolon fights. :lol I wasn't even that leveled up -- had people with 2 roles capped at Level 4 for the end of Chapter 11, I think. =/

 

[BocoDragon]

I dunno. I used the same strategy I have used the whole game :rav/rav/com, and if that doesn't work, com/com/rav.

It's just interesting because that's like "1 + 1 = 2" as far as this game is concerned, but those simple strategies aren't doing it for me here.... and now it's interesting. What's the cost of a rav/com/med vs a rav/rav/com? Is the added healing aspects going to buy you time you don't have to spend in an all healing paradigm... time that you can then put toward enemy damage? How would a sentinel affect the time vs enemy HO vs player HP dynamic? If you're not at the point where the enemy is "easy", then the possibilities of how to tackle it become very interesting.


I'm probably just barely underleveled. I haven't hit my caps. This is a boss at the end of a giant open sandbox... and I didn't really dwell in it that much.

 

[CruxisMana]

If you fail to do this efficiently you are talking about wide variations in the time it takes to beat the boss. This is why a time constraint makes perfect sense.

I get why the game does it and I think it's just because I tend to get frustrated easily when having to replay parts over and over.

As much as I love RPG's, I'm kinda bad at them.

:lol

 

[mjemirzian]

No, I'd rather the overall fight be challenging. Casting doom when the strategy was going fine is not making things more challenging.

My stats and gear are appropriate and it often takes me 10 minutes to beat the story bosses and yet they still remain completely easy and devoid of challenge.

How about the game challenge me itself?

I don't find killing anything as fast as possible a challenge. I consider a challenge my butt getting beat.

It's the mechanics that are important, not pre-conceived notions of genre. It is a challenge - you are challenged to setup your party and choose actions that kill the enemy as fast as possible, without dying to its attacks. And if you are taking 10 mins to clear a boss, you could be playing more efficiently and getting a higher score.

From the developers point of view, they gave the player infinite energy, which means any fight could be won through half an hour, an hour of attrition, etc. So they added enrage timers to challenge the player to play more efficiently.

 

[Gattsu25]

I didn't say Jet Set Radio wasn't awesome. It is one of my favorite games. In JSR, you have a time limit and in order to get the best score you have plan out a course of action and complete the level with x amount of points in y amount of time. It's excellent level design and fits arcade-like gameplay.

I don't care about finishing a battle as fast as possible in an rpg. I care about finding a strategy that works.

In any case, I haven't had this problem because I've managed to kill all bosses in a good amount of time. That doesn't mean I have to support it though.

So you're opposed to te very concept of a time limit within a boss battle as it takes you out of your RPG comfort zone?

I hope I'm not moscharacterizing you.

 

[BocoDragon]

Rav/Rav/Com is typically the best way to boost a stagger meter.

But that doesn't mean Rav/Rav/Com lends the best damage when the actual enemy is staggered.

THus, Com/Com/Rav works damn well, especially since Lightning hits harder as a Com.

Med/Med/Sab takes damage away from the healers typically and doubles magic healing by two times.

It's not rocket science and it's just strategies I came up with early in the game.

Yeah those are my staples: It isn't working.

Those are the kind of tactics where I easily plowed through most bosses prior.

I almost wish I could set up a justin.tv because I'd love for input on how to defeat him... with my exact player variables. Of course I can back out of the fight.. level up some... but I'm addicted to the possibility of beating him with exactly this configuration of characters and levels.

 

[ZephyrFate]

Lightning is supremely balanced when it comes to magic and attacking, so I feel like she's just ideally suited for both.

When the Stagger meter gets high enough COM/COM/COM will just tear apart everything.

 

[Mr.Squirrel]

It pains me to admit it, but this game really sucks. Really really sucks. The raging FF fanboy in me can't even deny it anymore.

 

[mjemirzian]

Why should I? Score nets you a better item. So what? Why should I play with my hands when playing with my toes works just as well?

As I said before, a high score is its own reward. You should know that from arcade games.

Let's make an easy game just plain annoying because although the boss fight offers no challenge, we'll just annoy the player by including a death counter. Okay.

I've already responded to this statement. If the game was easy with no challenge, you'd be getting 5 stars with no problem. Of course if you use shrouds that does make most fights much easier.

 

[BocoDragon]

What exactly is causing you trouble? Just the time limit?

Yes.. which is why I'm finding the whole Doom thing kinda compelling, because it's made me its bitch :lol

Upgrade your weapon, try that?

Ohhhhhhhhh....

That's probably the big variable.

I'm still rocking a Gladius lvl. 5! I was waiting for the Lionheart before I started upgrading.

 

[ULTROS!]

From what I use (all the time) for the story bosses:

Lightning/Hope/Fang, Ethersol + Fortisol.

Start with (1)MED/SYN/SAB, then when you are fully buffed and boss is debuffed, go (2a)RAV/RAV/COM (Fang being COM) but if the boss is a heavy hitter (2b)RAV/MED/COM. If you are all low in health, try (3a)MED/MED/SAB or (3b)MED/MED/SEN. If you stagger the boss, go (4a)COM/RAV/COM or (4b)COM/MED/COM if the boss is a heavy hitter. Go back to 2a and if you are unbuffed, 1.

Fang is very useful since she has the strongest attacks and Hope has very good magic (although lowest HP). Lightning for all around (MED + RAV + COM).

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

Anyone have a good strategy for mission 64? I get it to half way without much trouble but it feels like his fire spin moves randomly does more damage one turn than the other and i lose. Any tips?

 

[mjemirzian]

In arcade games netting a high score can let me unlock a character, or personal fulfillment. You aim for the high score because the game challenges you to the point where getting that score is rewarding.

In FF13, I shrug whether or not I get 5 stars or 3 stars. I simply do not care.

Next thing you know, the game changing your party members regularly without letting you customize your paradigms or party like at the beginning of chapter 12 is a legitimate way to make the game more challenging. :lol

Personal fulfillment is applicable to any game with a scoring system and challenge. It doesn't matter if you care or not, you are refusing to take on the presented challenge.

You can select retry and access the party menu in those instances, although that is a flaw with the game. You are making this ridiculous suggestion simply to mock me, which is not polite. if you really care to know my opinion of the game, you can read my review of it.

 

[mjemirzian]

Personal fulfillment is applicable to any game, but you act as if every gamer cares about every presented challenge. I don't care to get 5 stars in every battle. It's just a star and I'll occasionally get better loot. If you want me to take on that challenge dangle a more delicious carrot than that to entice me.

Actually, I cared that you refused to acknowledge that getting 5 stars is a challenge. You acknowledge that it is a challenge now, which is good. Nobody should care whether you choose to undertake it or not.

So I can see where you're coming from, as I often limit myself in games i like because I find them too easy.

What you described is a player defined challenge, because the game does not respond to your actions - whether you limit yourself or not, the game responds exactly the same. Getting 5 stars on fights is a developer provided challenge because the game responds to your actions - the game responds differently by giving you a visible score, and some other things like rare drop rate increase and TP recovery increase.

 

[Papercuts]

Blah, is army of one worth it? All these special skills seem to be just in Ravager, which I don't really put Lightning in aside from a quick Rav/Rav/Rav stagger.

 

[firehawk12]

Anyone have a good strategy for mission 64? I get it to half way without much trouble but it feels like his fire spin moves randomly does more damage one turn than the other and i lose. Any tips?

When he is shield, heal and reapply all your buffs.
When he drops his shield, hit him with poison, then try to stagger him. If you do stagger him, switch to a COM/COM/COM (or throw in a Med) paradigm to deal damage. Highwind is a plus.
When he is about to do his super attack, switch to SEN/SEN/SEN to take the damage and then switch to MED/MED/MED to heal up if necessary.

And repeat, basically. The secret really is the poison, which will always damage him, and switching to SEN when his attack comes up. Worst case scenario, use some TP to dispelga or summon if you're in trouble.

 

[Magnus]

It pains me to admit it, but this game really sucks. Really really sucks. The raging FF fanboy in me can't even deny it anymore.

"LET THE HATE FLOW THROUGH YOU"

 

[Rpgmonkey]

Blah, is army of one worth it? All these special skills seem to be just in Ravager, which I don't really put Lightning in aside from a quick Rav/Rav/Rav stagger.

It's okay. Unlike Highwind or Sovereign Fist it doesn't empty the gauge, but it lacks their brute force and it takes forever to finish.

Attacks seem to change properties if they're used in a different role (for example, Highwind does less damage if you switch to SAB before Fang uses it as a COM, happened to me a few times while fighting turtles), so switching to a COM/COM/COM setup may give it a bit of a damage boost.

 

[Papercuts]

What is this about having 400k in gil at the beginning of chapter 12?

I have like 800K at chapter 12, but I have never bought anything in the store. Did you repair the robot in 11? That gives you a lot of stuff that sells for a high price.

 

[Papercuts]

Army of One is the coolest looking limit break in the whole series.



What robot? :lol

It was in one of the houses in Oreba. There was 4-5 parts around the area you could find and repair it with, really pays off.

 

[Papercuts]

I can transport back to Oerba right? I swear I examined everything.

Not sure, since I'm still early on in 12. I know you can go back to Gran Pulse later + there's a few cie'th stones around the area, so you should be fine.

 

[mjemirzian]

Oh. I didn't refuse it was a challenge. It's just not a challenge that interests me.

Well that's good.

I can transport back to Oerba right? I swear I examined everything.

I believe so

Spoiler

at the start of chapter 13 when you get portals that let you go back to gran pulse.. or after you beat the game, of course

 

[firehawk12]

I can transport back to Oerba right? I swear I examined everything.

Once you get to 13, yeah.

 

[ZephyrFate]

I like Fang's Highwind move because it reminds me of Kain's jump, especially when she has Kain's Lance on!

 

[careful]

Ok, fuck turtle farming. I'm done with this game.

 

[entremet]

I'm probably super LTTP on this, but what's up with the stat buffs for the secondary jobs? They're pitiful. I guess that what some of you guys were complaining about regarding the crystanarium.

 

[MurkyZebra2417]

I'm probably super LTTP on this, but what's up with the stat buffs for the secondary jobs? They're pitiful. I guess that what some of you guys were complaining about regarding the crystanarium.

Yeah, stats are pretty much maxed out after the 3 main roles, but it has some nice stuff like bravega etc.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

I like Fang's Highwind move because it reminds me of Kain's jump, especially when she has Kain's Lance on!

It pretty much is jump. In fact Hope has an attack that pretty much is a Holy spell, it just isn't called Holy anymore.

 

[Mihku]

Pff, I'm struggling towards the end. In the last chapter now, and it looks like they had no inspiration whatsoever left. It's enemy after enemy after enemy. Doesn't really help the story has basically come to a halt the last few hours. I hope the finale will be a blast, because it's really starting to bore me.

 

[firehawk12]

Pff, I'm struggling towards the end. In the last chapter now, and it looks like they had no inspiration whatsoever left. It's enemy after enemy after enemy. Doesn't really help the story has basically come to a halt the last few hours. I hope the finale will be a blast, because it's really starting to bore me.

I felt the same way, so I used 5 Deceptols to get past all the enemies. :lol

 

[gibration]

So how are people getting their HP and Strength really high up there? Is there a new game+ or are you guys just roaming around and killing or doing side missions in CH.11?

I remember somebody here posted a picture of their stats and he had like 20,000+ HP and I was just curious to how you guys are doing it.

 

[Magnus]

I felt the same way, so I used 5 Deceptols to get past all the enemies. :lol

This is the correct way to get through the awful final chapter. I wish I used more than 2 of my complement of 6.

 

[firehawk12]

20k HP comes around when you max out all your roles to level 5.

 

[Magnus]

Is there anything that actually becomes available only in a post-game save? Aside from the "expanded" Crystarium, which is just one more ring of stats for each role, by the looks of it.

Can you BUY deceptols?

Not to my knowledge. Nor any of the other aerosols.

 

[Raw64life]

Pff, I'm struggling towards the end. In the last chapter now, and it looks like they had no inspiration whatsoever left. It's enemy after enemy after enemy. Doesn't really help the story has basically come to a halt the last few hours. I hope the finale will be a blast, because it's really starting to bore me.

I'm in the middle of Chapter 12 right now and I pretty much feel the same way. And I'm starting to get frustrated with the way they hand out CP. I'll kill a group of enemies in 30 seconds by pretty much doing nothing but mashing X and get 3000 CP, and then the very next group of enemies, between me dying a couple of times, switching around accessories and party members, and just generally taking a whole lot longer to beat, will take me 10-15 minutes to beat and I'll only get 4000 CP for it. Just doesn't seem worth it, and as a result I've made it a habit of basically just skipping any group of enemies that looks like would give me a hard time.

Also, maybe I just missed it, but is there any way to get gil other than the orbs? I'm seeing all this crap in the shops that's ridiculously expensive and I've got maybe 50,000 gil the entire game and I'm wondering if there's ever going to be any way to farm for gil.

 

[Easystride]

Ok, fuck turtle farming. I'm done with this game.

Yep, those are my thoughts as well.

 

[gibration]

20k HP comes around when you max out all your roles to level 5.

When you beat the game you can do post-game content on Pulse. He likely got that much hp from mastering every crystarium for every character.

Oh ok, thanks! Looks like I got a long way to go then.

 

[firehawk12]

Can you BUY deceptols?

Yeah, late game. They are 20k each though. It's better to equip a survivalist catalog and do some farming. I had 25 of them by the time I finished the game.

Is there anything that actually becomes available only in a post-game save? Aside from the "expanded" Crystarium, which is just one more ring of stats for each role, by the looks of it.

Not that I can think of... I guess if you wanted a challenge, you could try to do the trials without maxing out your roles.

Also, maybe I just missed it, but is there any way to get gil other than the orbs? I'm seeing all this crap in the shops that's ridiculously expensive and I've got maybe 50,000 gil the entire game and I'm wondering if there's ever going to be any way to farm for gil.

Yep, turtle farming or Mission 24 farming. :lol

 

[Papercuts]

Can you BUY deceptols?

Yeah, the robot in Oerba also gives you 10.

 

[Crash Station]

It pretty much is jump. In fact Hope has an attack that pretty much is a Holy spell, it just isn't called Holy anymore.

Pretty much all the special moves are old attacks/limit breaks. Army of One is Omnislash/Lionheart, Highwind is Jump, Death is...death. Can't remember what Sazh and Snow's are but they're probably something too.

 

[Pappasman]

I just finished the game. I was pretty surprised that i got the superstar trophy on my first try. I really liked the ending too.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Pretty much all the special moves are old attacks/limit breaks. Army of One is Omnislash/Lionheart, Highwind is Jump, Death is...death. Can't remember what Sazh and Snow's are but they're probably something too.

Snow's is pretty much Jump as well, but with a fist.

Sazh's is like Trigger Happy, but weaker and with a grenade launcher.

 

[desverger]

I love Highwind!

It's mega damage to enemies with a huge hitbox and with a genji glove equipped. Totally bonkers move. I usually finish stagger with it, they DON'T get up after that