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Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward |OT2| RIP Bowmage 2015-2017.

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ebil

Member
But it removes the risk. Before you had the risk of losing Fire IV completely if you screwed up. That heightened the stakes and made things far more interesting for me personally. Anyway, that's just me. We will see what they come up with I guess. It could make more sense with the other skills they add.

What I am getting at with the Thunder thing is: at level 60 you want a quick casting, low mana Thunder spell to put the dot up and you want the full Thunder 3 for the Thundercloud. How will the game know which one you want at each point? I don't think you would be able to switch traits on the fly in a fight. Maybe they will just modify the Thundercloud effect as you said and give a basic Thunder spell to cast because giving a fast casting, low mana Thunderspell that does the damage of Thunder 3 would be a big buff. Not that I would complain about that...
Thunder will evolve into Thunder 2, then 3 as you level up.

Thunder's cast time and mana cost are likely to remain the same, but its potency is going to be upgraded as you level up. Casting Thunder will be functionally identical to casting Thunder right now, using your proc will be functionally identical to using your proc right now. You'll have one button instead of 2 (and a dead third button) for the same thing.

Hardcasting Thunder 3 is never a proper decision in the game right now, and Thunder 2 might as well not exist so it makes sense that they're a candidate for consolidation into a single button.
 

Terrorblot

Member
Finally beat the 1-50 story.

Now for the post-patch content...

May God have mercy on my soul... I just want Heavensward...

The patch content can be pretty exhausting when all you want to do is get to Heavensward, but if you give it a chance the Main Scenerio Quests are actually pretty entertaining and there are some great dungeons leading up to Heavensward, overall not a bad leg of the game IMHO.
 

scy

Member
Well, I'm finally without a static now and I'm very happy because they were holding me back from clearing the turns early in the week.

MUH TEEM

But it removes the risk. Before you had the risk of losing Fire IV completely if you screwed up. That heightened the stakes and made things far more interesting for me personally.

Their stated goal seems to be trimming out these situations since dropping Enochian (and losing F4) is rotation altering and leads to wide gaps in players beyond the normal reasons (gear, greed, optimizing, optimizing greed). Especially in the case of BLM where the ratio of Enochian-related-DPS to total GCDs is wildly skewed. So you'll lose the thrill of upkeep but if the goal is maximizing output anyway, you're beyond that concern outside of it being a limiter to your greed. Which they can still have by locking away +Damage% vs losing F4 anyway since fundamentally the upkeep can still be there just not with it costing as much while being a baseline expectation.

Ultimately seems like a push towards rewarding players who succeed rather than punishing those who fail.
 

Jayhawk

Member
What is Diadem and how does one Diadem? The museums in Germany kept telling me this was Diadem:

DT301246.jpg
 

Kenai

Member
Once again, it is not because WHM has bad mitigation tools (it does but that is besides the point) or because N.AST is inferior to SCH in terms of defensive utility (it's not but it's arguably less versatile with its CDs), it is purely because you would be silly not to have an AST and a SCH for DPS reasons.

Even with a 18% AOE Stoneskin you wouldn't take WHM+AST over SCH+AST in the current set of raids. Defensive utility (including healing throughput) simply is irrelevant right now, and will forever be irrelevant when you start outgearing the content. That's a fact with these games. In WoW you would start removing healers after a point, thankfully in this game we can DPS a fair amount and raid structure is different so we're rarely phased out completely.

MNK does the most personal DPS, yet it is still considered sub-optimal because it doesn't bring rDPS and nobody needs mantra. It's the same situation with healers right now, leading to WHM sitting on the bench.

I didn't argue otherwise. But that doesn't make it any less of a problem going forward. AST's value in a raid isn't really tied to it's Sects at all, despite Noct still having one ot two issues Diurnal doesn't have that the expansion *could* fix (namely extend effects for shields being functionally useless vs extend effects for regen being quite useful). But I can't comment about that too much til we see what they get.

In a vacuum, WHM even has pretty good DPS (PoM in Cleric is a lot of dmg for a healer), but that doesn't matter in an actual raid because they will totally stop healing while doing so. AST provides Balance which doesn't interrupt healing *at all*, with the caveat of not being able to do Balance at all times and having the weakest personal DPS in the game.

SCH provides significant healing *and* CDs via fairy while DPSing at no real loss of effectiveness, which has mattered and is frankly too OP a niche to ignore in raiding. It's on par with WAR's dominance in the offtank position now, easy. And it's harder to "fix" without a serious change to how the class (all healers really) works.with Cleric Stance. This *is* possible since SE seems very interested in sweeping changes to cross class skills though.

They could either remove Cleric Stance and balance healers around it not being there (this would be a lot of work and may not necessarily fix the problem on it's own, but is probably the best long term solution), or penalize the SCH's healing further in Cleric stance so the other healers can provide similar raid DPS while healing (this would be tricky to do without affecting aspects of play outside raiding too, and probably has serious coding issues).I'm not sure what SE will go with, but it's likely to be one of those two with no new healer on the table (said healer might have been designed for an alternative to that dps while healing niche, but nah)
 

Lanrutcon

Member
Nah, Scholars are fine.

Pew pew heal heal shieldy shield COMMENDATIONS happy dance emote go hoooooooome and have a Kit Kat.
 
So i'm getting an MMO itch again and deciding what game to sink my time into. I was a hardcore Everquest addict and loved the risk/reward and grouping aspect. Seems to be lost on current MMOs, but trying to decide between this and ESO on which to devote some time into.
 

scy

Member
In a vacuum, WHM even has pretty good DPS (PoM in Cleric is a lot of dmg for a healer), but that doesn't matter in an actual raid because they will totally stop healing while doing so. AST provides Balance which doesn't interrupt healing *at all*, with the caveat of not being able to do Balance at all times and having the weakest personal DPS in the game.

While the issue of SCH dominance is basically the Fairy, it's worth noting the min/max meta for healers is optimizing both their Cleric Stance uptimes (or, another way, maximize the use of their non-GCD healing). This leads to more like both healers with around a 75%-80% Cleric's uptime rather than any individual carrying the majority of it.

They could either remove Cleric Stance and balance healers around it not being there (this would be a lot of work and may not necessarily fix the problem on it's own, but is probably the best long term solution), or penalize the SCH's healing further in Cleric stance so the other healers can provide similar raid DPS while healing (this would be tricky to do without affecting aspects of play outside raiding too, and probably has serious coding issues).I'm not sure what SE will go with, but it's likely to be one of those two with no new healer on the table (said healer might have been designed for an alternative to that dps while healing niche, but nah)

Which leads to this: They can give more ways to work around Cleric's Stance rather than removing it or adjusting downwards. SCH being the only one with real healing tools while inside CS is a bigger problem than CS itself if they want to keep that gameplay element. The current healing dynamic already deals with it as best they can by using the Fairy to allow for both healers in CS (e.g., opener windows) that non-SCH comps cannot compete with.

In any "offhealer is dedicated DPS healer" setup, the difference is more marginal regardless of the healer doing it. And, well, at that point it doesn't address other gaps in kits but it's a start to level the playing field when it comes to how healers work together regardless of what combination they're with.
 

duckroll

Member
Got to lvl49. Cleared out almost all of my Hunting Log. Close to the end of ARR now. Which means it's about time to ask... how does one go about poking people to form a 8-man party this weekend to do the two endgame dungeons so I can watch all the cutscenes and not miss all the gameplay too? ^^;

Dresden? Haly? Hosanna?

(It's going to be hilarious when I poke everyone and then FAIL to get to the end by this weekend...)
 

ebil

Member
I'm half expecting them to revamp Dissipation as a stance and to lock every new skill behind it to solve the SCH DPS while healing issue at this point.
 
Got to lvl49. Cleared out almost all of my Hunting Log. Close to the end of ARR now. Which means it's about time to ask... how does one go about poking people to form a 8-man party this weekend to do the two endgame dungeons so I can watch all the cutscenes and not miss all the gameplay too? ^^;

Dresden? Haly? Hosanna?

(It's going to be hilarious when I poke everyone and then FAIL to get to the end by this weekend...)

You could try to form a party through Party Finder, and write in the comments that you intend on watching the cutscenes. You could write "bonus, unsynced, cutscenes".

Honestly, I would recommend that you skip all the cutscenes to raise your chances of finding people, and simply watch them in your room (you can watch every cutscene from your journal in your room at any inn, in case you didn't know).
 

Edzi

Member
You could try to form a party through Party Finder, and write in the comments that you intend on watching the cutscenes. You could write "bonus, unsynced, cutscenes".

Honestly, I would recommend that you skip all the cutscenes to raise your chances of finding people, and simply watch them in your room (you can watch every cutscene from your journal in your room at any inn, in case you didn't know).

Wait, is this actually a concern? People aren't willing to wait for you to watch cutscenes your first time through? Are they that long, or are people just impatient as hell?

Seems really shitty that you could ruin your initial experience through the end game like that.
 

scy

Member
Short of forcing a min ilvl run, it's not like anything really captures the original feel for those final dungeons. You probably have a better chance of just taking random 3-4 people and seeing how it goes and it'll still melt faster than it originally did.

I'm half expecting them to revamp Dissipation as a stance and to lock every new skill behind it since it to solve the SCH DPS while healing issue at this point.

The 9x ED timegate dream.

Dissipation is still so weird to me as a button that was conceptualized as a regularly used healing button.

They're only really going to solve SCH DPS when Eos/Selene start being affected by CS somehow.

I mean, that still ignores the optimal meta, even when WHM/AST, is alternating who's in stances. The fairy mostly gives the leeway for zero healers out of CS for some spots (e.g., A9S can basically be solo healed by the fairy and cooldowns) but it's not like healer DPS only exists because SCH.

Wait, is this actually a concern? People aren't willing to wait for you to watch cutscenes your first time through? Are they that long, or are people just impatient as hell?

Seems really shitty that you could ruin your initial experience through the end game like that.

Without cutscenes, the dungeon takes single digit minutes.
With cutscenes, it's closer to a 35-40m run.

Edit: For additional added context, at least from ARR times, it was also a prime place to farm tomes due to how fast the run was for the reward so it was this weird spot of being a place people wanted to farm but cutscenes meant getting maybe 2 in an hour vs getting around 10.
 

Bowlie

Banned
Wait, is this actually a concern? People aren't willing to wait for you to watch cutscenes your first time through? Are they that long, or are people just impatient as hell?

Seems really shitty that you could ruin your initial experience through the end game like that.

Everyone waits for entrance/final boss/victory cutscenes in every dungeon, but the last ARR dungeon in particular has ~30 minutes of cutscenes.

Since there's a bonus to doing it and the second to last ARR dungeon (that also has long cutscenes) every day in the Duty Finder, people, myself included, aren't willing to wait for that long.

edit: I should clarify that this is with randoms, that just want to get their prizes as fast as possible and call it a day :p
 

Stuart444

Member
Honestly, I would recommend that you skip all the cutscenes to raise your chances of finding people, and simply watch them in your room (you can watch every cutscene from your journal in your room at any inn, in case you didn't know).

And I'd advise against that. It's much better to watch them during the dungeon imo.

If I'm on when you need to do either of them Duckroll, Alice and myself can help do them np.

Otherwise just make sure you're in a group that will wait (there is usually quite a few nice folks in PF that don't mind helping people.) Or you'll miss all the fights.

If you can get 3 - 4 people you can just unsync it and have no trouble.

So glad they learned after those 2 dungeons not to put long cutscenes in future dungeons
 

Stuart444

Member
If you need people from party finder I can assist over that since I'm on Leviathan.

On that note I can't wait till they do more cross server stuff like friend lists since I made some cool friends that I have on PSN thanks to meeting them via the new PF system.
 

suzu

Member
Got to lvl49. Cleared out almost all of my Hunting Log. Close to the end of ARR now. Which means it's about time to ask... how does one go about poking people to form a 8-man party this weekend to do the two endgame dungeons so I can watch all the cutscenes and not miss all the gameplay too? ^^;

Dresden? Haly? Hosanna?

(It's going to be hilarious when I poke everyone and then FAIL to get to the end by this weekend...)

Ask like two Lv60s players and queue unsynced. I helped someone with it recently and would just alt-tab while waiting for them to finish watching cutscenes. lol
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Ask like two Lv60s players and queue unsynced. I helped someone with it recently and would just alt-tab while waiting for them to finish watching cutscenes. lol

Yeah I think I can do this. problem is none of us are tanks. Maybe if Dresden goes MCH and I go AST?
 
Wait, is this actually a concern? People aren't willing to wait for you to watch cutscenes your first time through?

oh yeah. It happened to me. In both last dungeons of base ARR, I was left behind the rest of the gang because I was watching cutscenes. I was lost (as the dungeon is weird), just kept wandering around, and missed several bosses. It pretty much ruined those dungeons for me.
 

Edzi

Member
oh yeah. It happened to me. In both last dungeons of base ARR, I was left behind the rest of the gang because I was watching cutscenes. I was lost (as the dungeon is weird), just kept wandering around, and missed several bosses. It pretty much ruined those dungeons for me.

That's incredibly shitty. Hopefully I have better luck finding people from the FC and on party finder once I finally make it that far.
 
I was able to get almost everything in Castrum while skipping cutscenes but Praetorium REALLY needs cutscenes for context. Too much cool stuff happening not to know what's going on.
 

Dresden

Member
Got to lvl49. Cleared out almost all of my Hunting Log. Close to the end of ARR now. Which means it's about time to ask... how does one go about poking people to form a 8-man party this weekend to do the two endgame dungeons so I can watch all the cutscenes and not miss all the gameplay too? ^^;

Dresden? Haly? Hosanna?

(It's going to be hilarious when I poke everyone and then FAIL to get to the end by this weekend...)

We should go through the Coil stuff too over the weekend.
 

kagamin

Member
My FC got their shit together and we did all the way up to T9 a few weeks back, but we haven't managed to get people grouped up since then. lol
 

Killthee

helped a brotha out on multiple separate occasions!
Got to lvl49. Cleared out almost all of my Hunting Log. Close to the end of ARR now. Which means it's about time to ask... how does one go about poking people to form a 8-man party this weekend to do the two endgame dungeons so I can watch all the cutscenes and not miss all the gameplay too? ^^;

Dresden? Haly? Hosanna?

(It's going to be hilarious when I poke everyone and then FAIL to get to the end by this weekend...)
Only way to not faceroll through it is probably to do a minimum item lv sync run. Running it with 8 at the lv 50 cap you'll still blast through it pretty quickly. If you just want to watch the cutscenes and don't mind blowing through all the bosses you can run with just 3 or 4 more people as an unsynced party.
 

Squishy3

Member
So duckroll, what you do is just ask in the FC (in this case GAF) and you only need like 2 or 3 other people who are level 60 to come with you, and you can knock it out pretty easily.
 

Jayhawk

Member
Pfft, who schedules Diadem? Diadem will be happening 24/7. Captain Galen of the ERP/Gold Saucer/Diadem linkshell will carry the entire data center, as before.
 
Got the Krinna Trident and Shire Pathfinder Armor for my Dragoon...i feel exhausted after running parts of PotD so many times. But now my iLvL is 45 higher than when I beat Thordan so all good.
 
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