Yeah, that was neat.
Made me wonder how people in the instance doing it normally felt about the people remarking in party chat about the changes. (Unless it was a special version of the instance only accessible by people with that quest flag??)
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Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward |OT2| RIP Bowmage 2015-2017.
- Thread starter Ken
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Yeah, that was neat.
I wish it were just that sometimes.
>_>
Also, it seems to get my next Adder promotion, I have to do the quest where I have to run Darkhold again? This is like recap episodes in an anime. Lol.
Whoa... okay, this made it worth it lol.
When the second phase started, and I saw the big speech bubble I realized what you meant.
Nevermind what I said back then, haha.
nope, some newcomers were with me, which made things weirder; like we're doing two fights at the same time!
It's not a separate instance, but when we did it on launch everybody obviously was on the quest so I never experienced that.
The dialogue you get is definitely tied to the quest being flagged, though
since it's supposed to be a weak version of Titan
This is the point where the story keeps building up all the way to the end.
That's great to hear!
Honestly the whole Inquisitor storyline somewhat prior to it was kind of a major drag for me, lol
hosannainexcelsis
Member
That was amazing. That story beat really drives home that, despite being the Warrior of Light who saves the world, sometimes you really have no good options.
SoundPulse
Banned
Calling Cape Westwind a trial at this point is really being far too generous to it.
The last two dungeons (Castrum and Praetorum) in ARR are pretty much trivial. If you're going to do them through the duty finder, you'll be speedrunning them.
I wish it were just that sometimes.
>_>
Also, it seems to get my next Adder promotion, I have to do the quest where I have to run Darkhold again? This is like recap episodes in an anime. Lol.
Teleporting all across Eorzea is pretty much what I still remember of it, lol.
At least it cooled it on making you go back to the Walking Sands.
The Grand Company promotion quests are pretty much designed to push you into the optional dungeons, so you can probably guess where it's going to send you next. I didn't mind it too much, but I like to spam dungeons over and over.
I do not recommend ANYONE who is a first timer doing Castrum and Praetorium on Duty Finder. You'll just ruin the endgame experience. There's no good way for S-E to fix this either. Do what I did, when you're near the end, plan a date and time where your friends or people here are free, announce it, form a party, poke your FC chat to ask for fills, and make sure everyone knows that it's your first time. Everyone gets bonuses, and if you're playing with friends and FC members everyone will be willing to wait through the cutscenes for you and play it normally so it's not ruined.
The last two dungeons are great just for the spectacle and the creative scripting alone. Unfortunately they're also super duper unfriendly to play with randoms.
The last two dungeons are great just for the spectacle and the creative scripting alone. Unfortunately they're also super duper unfriendly to play with randoms.
That's largely been a fear of mine. I really like to view the cutscenes, and don't wanna be rushed through the ending of ARR.
I guess I'll prod GAF FC when I do get to them then. It's also good to know which dungeons they are as I hadn't looked it up yet myself.
This is exactly my plan. To ask our kind FC if they can join me through the dungeons, so that I don't have to skip the cutscenes and watch them at the inn later. Would like to watch them as they happen.
SoundPulse
Banned
Yeah, I wouldn't suggest it either.
You'll run into people complaining about others watching cutscenes elsewhere, but it's fairly rare in my experience. The later Heavensward dungeons have some that are slightly long, I guess, but it gives me time to regen my mana, so I can't say I mind.
If people do get really snippy about it, you can always pull out the old 'you don't pay my sub' card.
You'll run into people complaining about others watching cutscenes elsewhere, but it's fairly rare in my experience. The later Heavensward dungeons have some that are slightly long, I guess, but it gives me time to regen my mana, so I can't say I mind.
If people do get really snippy about it, you can always pull out the old 'you don't pay my sub' card.
but nowhere else
It's not just the cutscenes fwiw. In the final dungeon in particular, it's actually possible to miss entire boss fights because the cutscene before that is so long that by the time you are done watching, the people rushing through have already beaten it and you just go straight to the next cutscene instead.
I would probably feel less inclined to heal those people >_>
Why can't SE just lock everyone out of the boss until the new players finish the cutscene or decide to skip it themselves? Seems like an easy fix.
I think if they do that, no one will run it again knowing there's a chance they might be forced to wait wait wait. It would make queues even longer for anyone who just wants to get it over with. I mean, let's be honest, there are a SHITLOAD of cutscenes in those dungeons and they're pretty long.
They need a good incentive to draw players to run older content (in this specific case, a rather generous amount of tomestones). If they locked you out during cutscenes, it would be hell for new players to get through them, as outside of helping out other players nobody wants to spend 40 minutes in a dungeon.
They've come up with a better solution for the story dungeons after 2.0 but CM and Praetorium can't really be salvaged.
Yeah, I mean, when I first went through Praetorium on launch we almost timed out. lol. It was an amazing dungeon when you ran it as originally envisioned, though.
SoundPulse
Banned
To put it in perspective: The last dungeon has a little over half an hour of cutscenes. Speed runs are done in like 20 minutes, if people aren't screwing around. Since most people are in it for the tomestones, they won't wait for you.
It sucks, but there's nothing you can really do about it other than going in with a pre-made party. Silver lining is that this is the only time it's an issue.
Can't say it doesn't cross my mind, but I'm too nice, I guess. Only time I'll purposely let someone die is if they're more of a detriment alive than dead. DPS constantly standing in fire and we don't need to meet a DPS check? Tank the floor, Dragoon.
People farm them for tomestones. You'd see people just stop doing them if they did that, so it would become harder to get a group going and queue times would increase.
It sucks, but there's nothing you can really do about it other than going in with a pre-made party. Silver lining is that this is the only time it's an issue.
Can't say it doesn't cross my mind, but I'm too nice, I guess. Only time I'll purposely let someone die is if they're more of a detriment alive than dead. DPS constantly standing in fire and we don't need to meet a DPS check? Tank the floor, Dragoon.
People farm them for tomestones. You'd see people just stop doing them if they did that, so it would become harder to get a group going and queue times would increase.
Because for every person happy to watch the cutscenes, other 7 would be annoyed to be waiting every time they do the dungeons, and start to not do them. ;x
The least worst "solution" to that is using the Party Finder system to find other players that want to watch the cutscenes, or find friends to do them with you
Hm, I guess you're right. How many people do you need to run those dungeons? I'll probably save them for a Saturday night so hopefully there'll be some kind Gaffers available to help out.
I-it's not my fault... I'm new at this... T_T
(Why is it always the dragoons, I feel sad)
They're really easy to run unsynced with a 60 tank + healer. I often do this for new players, so that they at least get the experience of fighting the bosses, watching cutscenes, etc.
I also usually scare them by letting them solo the
Ultima
SoundPulse
Banned
UtterlyPerplexed
Member
Had four new people across my FC and a Linkshell tag along with a few of us for Praetorium a while back. All four newbies were DPS. I decided to be cruel and announced with caps lock on at the very start of the first
that if the DPS don't kill the boss in 30 seconds, it's a wipe.
Ahhh, that was fun.
Ultima fight, prior to Hydaelyn's blessing coming down and making Ultima damageable
Ahhh, that was fun.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
So I managed to see the Emergency Mission but didn't manage to clear it.
I like the concept of doing these missions around the area then converging to do a big group mission.
I think it would do better in a different location though. Sea of Clouds isn't the most interesting of areas to fly through.
Maybe some places in Ala Mhigo and Othard like I mentioned earlier?
I think it would be cool if they had multiple Emergency Missions in these areas but you'll only get one each time so you'll probably get something different each time you go in.
Some more FATEs with interesting enemy mechanics would be welcome too, like mini bosses or the sort that you would find in dungeons.
I also like how you start in a random location (as far as I can tell) each time and can go in any direction, as opposed to dungeons where you follow a linear path the whole way through. Feels more free but there's still a focus to congregate to complete objectives.
I also haven't managed to explore much of the area underneath the barrier so I'll see if I can get down there in future runs.
Healing and tanking was kind of fun here, since the close proximity of enemies means that unintended things tend to happen which means as a tank or healer you need to compensate before people die which keeps things from getting stale.
Overall I'm looking forward to seeing how they can refine this and make it better (new areas please).
I like the concept of doing these missions around the area then converging to do a big group mission.
I think it would do better in a different location though. Sea of Clouds isn't the most interesting of areas to fly through.
Maybe some places in Ala Mhigo and Othard like I mentioned earlier?
I think it would be cool if they had multiple Emergency Missions in these areas but you'll only get one each time so you'll probably get something different each time you go in.
Some more FATEs with interesting enemy mechanics would be welcome too, like mini bosses or the sort that you would find in dungeons.
I also like how you start in a random location (as far as I can tell) each time and can go in any direction, as opposed to dungeons where you follow a linear path the whole way through. Feels more free but there's still a focus to congregate to complete objectives.
I also haven't managed to explore much of the area underneath the barrier so I'll see if I can get down there in future runs.
Healing and tanking was kind of fun here, since the close proximity of enemies means that unintended things tend to happen which means as a tank or healer you need to compensate before people die which keeps things from getting stale.
Overall I'm looking forward to seeing how they can refine this and make it better (new areas please).
Demoskinos
Member
AS11 clear... finally.
So how hard is AS12 compared to 11?
Yeah. That's the best way. 2.0 unfortunately had a bunch of ill placed cut-scenes in some dungeons. They have figured out now that that is a BAD idea and have henceforth stopped putting cut scenes mid- dungeon.
So how hard is AS12 compared to 11?
Yeah. That's the best way. 2.0 unfortunately had a bunch of ill placed cut-scenes in some dungeons. They have figured out now that that is a BAD idea and have henceforth stopped putting cut scenes mid- dungeon.
Depends on your job I'd say. A12s follows a very strict script compared to A11s skip-a-thon.
I'd say it's a good bit harder if you start from scratch as a group as there are real healing and tank checks on top of the choreography that need solving, but overall you should be able to progress easily as long as you keep at it. There's just not much going on once you know how to deal with everything.
It's much easier than 11s when you have it on farm, though.
tiggerkiddo
Member
Can't believe it's been close to a year since I touched Sephirot EX. The dance is easy to remember, just have to take a couple tries. Would never farm that for a pony though
I dunno, at least A11s felt fresh every week throughout the tier, almost like a fight with random mechanics you have to react to.
Blassty mount please
it's a mess
Blassty mount please
Farming it with my casual FC was terrible and made me bitchy all the time. I'm glad everyone in the FC now has their bird and that we're past that and Nidhogg. It's easy with a decent group but mistakes can snowball really quickly in this.
Well, in the Reddit interview at least it says it's something they're aware of.
R: Currently in fights such as Zurvan with soar and multiple points in A11S such as the entire ball phase, like the four balls, it's possible to skip these due to high amounts of raid DPS. This can make some fights awkward to execute and make some players feel like skipping these is the only option in the fight, like we've seen big community backlash where if you can't skip soar we're going to disband the party. Are there any plans to address this in new raids like Omega and future primals? In North America this is a bigger problem specifically.
Y: All in all it depends on who is creating the content. If the game designer is a veteran, and they should have designed it so that you wouldn't have to worry about that sort of phase shift thus it won't make it so that the HP is not so severely taken away in raid content. That's our hope from the designers side that we'll make our best effort, but at this point all we can say is that we'll be very mindful of the situation when we're developing our content. That's about the extent I can say at this point.
I mean, this is an area of the game where I actually expect them to improve, as they've completely (?) eliminated fights where pushing at the wrong time or too hard would just create skips that would kill some of your teammates or outright wipe you.
They're all easy to farm. Nidhogg can be a tad annoying when people are bad and kill themselves before Akh Morn during the last phase.
tiggerkiddo
Member
Never bothered with Nidhogg, Sophia or Zurvan since I couldn't find a raid group but I doubt they could be worse than trying to farm Thordan Ex.
Nidhogg and Zurvan are the biggest ones where one person messing up can snowball into mistakes that end up causing a wipe, while Sophia doesn't really have that. (Worst case you're the one who gets sent flying off.) You can mostly recover from Sin and Punishment mistakes now (as long as not everyone messes it up)
I was pretty disappointed when the raid design panel wrapped up without really touching on Creator at all, because the fights are basically the biggest spread of skip options possible. 9 is full scripted, 10 has a decent number of checkpoints, 11 feels like every mechanic in the front half of the fight is tied to a 2% HP range at points, 12 has like one real skip that I know of and then the 'just kill him before Communion' way to make final phase easier.
I think balance-wise 10 hit things the best for me in terms of skipping mechanics; generally once you're skipping something in 10 you're done seeing it. 11 skips line up in a way that generally skipping something earlier in the fight is going to make something you were pushing before resurface at least temporarily (and the freaking EDD skip made me cross class Feint again; bait optical happens so early in the fight at that point I can't even turn GB off for movement.) I'm not sure what to make of Yoshida's answer; Soar skip as a goal isn't bad, but it probably should have been tuned a little higher to not make it baseline expected. AFAIK pugs aren't demanding Lapis skip, because while it's doable it's not practical to expect a bunch of strangers to sync up at that level.
I think balance-wise 10 hit things the best for me in terms of skipping mechanics; generally once you're skipping something in 10 you're done seeing it. 11 skips line up in a way that generally skipping something earlier in the fight is going to make something you were pushing before resurface at least temporarily (and the freaking EDD skip made me cross class Feint again; bait optical happens so early in the fight at that point I can't even turn GB off for movement.) I'm not sure what to make of Yoshida's answer; Soar skip as a goal isn't bad, but it probably should have been tuned a little higher to not make it baseline expected. AFAIK pugs aren't demanding Lapis skip, because while it's doable it's not practical to expect a bunch of strangers to sync up at that level.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
Apparently the diadem has up to 72 players.
This is just asking for some kind of all out battle against the garleans in ala mhigo for an exploratory mission.
I recall Yoship saying something about how you'll be doing something new in Ala Mhigo IIRC. A large scale exploratory mission set around a battlefield/Garlean defensive structure in Ala Mhigo would make sense imo.
This is just asking for some kind of all out battle against the garleans in ala mhigo for an exploratory mission.
I recall Yoship saying something about how you'll be doing something new in Ala Mhigo IIRC. A large scale exploratory mission set around a battlefield/Garlean defensive structure in Ala Mhigo would make sense imo.
I really want dungeons in SB to force exploration over speed runs. Give extra reward for full clears that makes them better than speed runs for tome farming or roulettes. Put in hidden bosses and achievements for full exploration with bonus items. Make dungeon progression non-linear. Dungeons in this game are nothing but a chore and no amount of pretty backdrops can mask the fact your party is running in a straight line towards the boss and all that's worth getting is the tomes for killing the three bosses and completing the instance. Instead of massive amounts of trash mobs, place less of them amid simple puzzle sections that require each party member to do something instead of blindly following the tank. SE needs to destroy the efficiency mentality in dungeon content, and they need to do that by actually making dungeons fun, making the players engage with the lore and atmosphere inside these dungeons more, and to make speed runs not worth it versus full clears.
Yeah, I completely agree. Dungeons being the best source of tomestones in the past were the main reason why I noped out of the game 2 weeks after most of the patches (no interest in riding).
There are always people going through them for the first time, but I always feel like doing a FFXIV dungeon for the 3+ time is a huge waste of time. In most cases there's almost no risk of dying unless you fall asleep, which happened to me a few times. You mindlessly kill the same few groups of mobs, usually don't get any worthwhile items and the Extreme Roulette just becomes 20 minutes of boredom to get the daily set of tokens.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
So I'm not the only one who's fallen asleep while doing dungeons.
If you see me running into a wall it's because I'm dozing off and my hand is still pushing on the analog stick.
I don't think they are going to change dungeons though. I think they are probably going to remain as that linear path you run through to get some tomes at the end. They are designed to have some pretty sights, many being part of the MSQ to have some relevant boss at the end. Like Heavensward leveling dungeons were something to run through once on your way to 60. And you only ran them more than once if you hit a point where the EXP from MSQ was too low (or wanted the gear drops). Then they're recycled for the roulette.
After playing Diadem a bit I see a concept that could be further refined and improved upon + some new locations. It could definitely serve as a nice alternative to running dungeons and trials if handled well with more variety in the enemies and activities like I mentioned in a previous post on this page.
I feel this is where desire for game design meets the harsh reality of MMO needs. The reality is that what you want can probably easily be designed by the team, but it would result in dungeons which most people won't want to run multiple times. This will mean that for new players as time goes by, it gets increasingly harder to queue for dungeons at all. Since they are basically going to be -done- after each player 100% clears it. MMO players who form the bread and butter of queues want straightforward stuff they can quickly power through daily to grind materials. That's just how it is.
I feel that even adding some random elements to the dungeons would make them at least a bit less mind numbing. They could make it so the length/number of enemies are always the same, but they're made out of blocks, like Diablo 3 (PotD feels a bit too random to be a normal dungeon).
Of course this would have a downside of the dungeons feeling much less hand crafted, but I personally wouldn't mind. Having 2 dungeons in the Extreme Roulette which you're theoretically should do daily for tokens is really sad.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
Some of the earlier dungeons have some branching paths and stuff like Toto rak, but they also tend to be the most boring, partly because you don't have all of your max level skills but also because they take longer to complete as a result.
Getting Totorak and similar dungeons in a roulette fucking sucks because I just want to get through them as fast as possible ideally for the tomestones.
I'm coming around to the idea that expecting them to add variation to dungeons that are going to be run for daily tomestones is a bad idea.
It's probably best to look at new things like Diadem/PotD for things that are not your typical linear dungeon run. Hopefully they improve on this front in Stormblood.
So you want PotD for Roulette? Maybe they can do a dungeon like that - Tower of Babel from FFIV? Lol.
Lunafreya Nox Fleuret
Member
A12S is finally fucking dead. Jesus Christ.
I'm happy inside
I'm thinking something like the Broken Shore scenario from Legion's pre-launch could work, where you work with a large force to break into the city proper.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjWcrw9LeTM&ab_channel=NaturalDisasterGames
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjWcrw9LeTM&ab_channel=NaturalDisasterGames
That seems closer to what FFXIV has as FATES. Like... the Svara series of FATES.
I want dungeons that you "have" to clear multiple times during your time with the game to not be the same dull straight line every time. Not even a full on potd-like dungeon.
That said, after playing a ton of mmos over the last 15 or so years, I know that this is probably never going to happen, so I guess I'm fine with playing other stuff once I get bored of the content in each new patch.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
IT seems that Diadem can hold up to 72 players in one instance.
According to a reddit post you can enter into a Diadem instance that already has players in it. I guess that's why the queue only needs to find 7 other players instead of 71 and I suppose groups that leave can have their spots filled by people who are queuing in.
According to a reddit post you can enter into a Diadem instance that already has players in it. I guess that's why the queue only needs to find 7 other players instead of 71 and I suppose groups that leave can have their spots filled by people who are queuing in.
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