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[SoundPulse]

One thing Phantasy Star Universe did was build multiple parts of a given mission, which would be sewn together so you could run it several times and not have the exact same experience.

It was still mind numbing (White Beast zzz), and it's almost certainly not something Square would do, but hey.

 

[Teknoman]

Finally got my new PC put together, retiring the old frankenstein build (got me through XI and random upgrades here and there for XIV among other things).

Now to just transfer / reinstall everything... whoo boy.

 

[Squishy3]

That seems closer to what FFXIV has as FATES. Like... the Svara series of FATES.

Yeah, but the idea I mean is instead of something that happens multiple times repeatedly, you just do it the once and then it phases you into the city proper and you have unfiltered access. If need be, they could make it so breaching the city walls or whatever is a bombastic solo duty and then you can have a dungeon/trial to finish off the game proper.

GW2 took this approach for its endgame areas in Orr and Heart of Thorns, where the end of the game is locked behind dynamic event chains. Let me tell you how that went for GW2: At launch, Orr was completely broken. The event chains that would unlock the last dungeon in the game would constantly bug out and stay broken until they did a server reset, in which case it was only a matter of hours before the events that would let you open up the dungeon broke again. This also obviously requires participation from other people to complete.


Which is where Heart of Thorns comes in, they'd since solved the dynamic events breaking but then after people beat the expansion you have the participation issue with the dynamic events.

 

[Luigi87]

Yeah, but the idea I mean is instead of something that happens multiple times repeatedly, you just do it the once and then it phases you into the city proper and you have unfiltered access. If need be, they could make it so breaching the city walls or whatever is a bombastic solo duty and then you can have a dungeon/trial to finish off the game proper.

GW2 took this approach for its endgame areas in Orr and Heart of Thorns, where the end of the game is locked behind dynamic event chains. Let me tell you how that went for GW2: At launch, Orr was completely broken. The event chains that would unlock the last dungeon in the game would constantly bug out and stay broken until they did a server reset, in which case it was only a matter of hours before the events that would let you open up the dungeon broke again. This also obviously requires participation from other people to complete.


Which is where Heart of Thorns comes in, they'd since solved the dynamic events breaking but then after people beat the expansion you have the participation issue with the dynamic events.

Jeez, I stopped playing before HoT came out, but I do remember that stuff with Orr. Waiting and hoping the event would pop, calling people map wide to come to it, and hoping things didn't break...
... good times!

 

[kagamin]

PHEW THAT CRIT

 

[Cmagus]

One thing Phantasy Star Universe did was build multiple parts of a given mission, which would be sewn together so you could run it several times and not have the exact same experience.

It was still mind numbing (White Beast zzz), and it's almost certainly not something Square would do, but hey.

What if dungeons had bonus objectives though that would award bonus tomes or an extra chest.What if that bonus chest gave you an item for your relic or something that makes running these dungeons for tomes better. I mean the dungeons don't have anything interesting right now other than going through for tomes. There is no interesting design, almost every dungeon is 2-3 trash mobs and then boss.

Aurum Vale in 1.0 was interesting because if you went out of your way to get all the chests and complete the dungeon in I believe 17 minutes or less you would get an extra chest at the end that would have Darklight armor (best at the time) in it.

I don't think they will change much though to the formula because the way it is now is a safe balance between casual and hardcore.

 

[EndcatOmega]

Steal Mythic dungeons from WoW. They're the only reason I'd ever want to go back to that dumb game, put it in XIV and save me the hassle.

 

[dramatis]

PHEW THAT CRIT

In three months that will be peanuts

 

[Lanrutcon]

Steal Mythic dungeons from WoW. They're the only reason I'd ever want to go back to that dumb game, put it in XIV and save me the hassle.

SMR lfm HULLBREAKER+5 MRD SCH MCH, LINK CHEEVO, ENGLISH ONLY

 

[aceface]

PHEW THAT CRIT

This should actually happen in fights. Well I know when I get that deployed crit adlo and the ultimate does no damage on a primal, it's my cue to take the rest of the battle off! I've done my part.

 

[Frumix]

Nice, scholar-chan, you did good in mitigating livable damage that will be whiffed away by WHM's Medica 2 in a couple ticks. Good jorb.

 

[EndcatOmega]

SMR lfm HULLBREAKER+5 MRD SCH MCH, LINK CHEEVO, ENGLISH ONLY

Melee being murdered in dungeons is how it should be. I don't feel alive unless I'm being attacked by 360 degree cleaves and bosses who literally charge around to make sure nobody remains uncleaved.

 

[Lunafreya Nox Fleuret]

AS11 clear... finally.

So how hard is AS12 compared to 11?

As someone that has just killed 12 last night I'd say it it easier than 11 but still can be very hard during progression for some groups. The last phase of a12s is the most difficult, imo because it is super easy to screw up if positioned terribly. I went 3 hours with a pf last night and finally killed it but it has taken weeks upon weeks to beat it because the static I was in were not progressing at all. People never showed up, etc and I wasted my time waiting for them. I had better results on my own with pugs and yeah, I pretty much cleared by definition with a PUG that I was invited to and I'm pretty unhappy I cleared it super late. You can't really fault others for wiping but at the same time when my static was on temporal stasis for 3 weeks it just left a really bad taste in my mouth. 12S has big damage and heal checks but nothing is difficult except last phase. The 2nd inception can be super scary and takes some practice but you'll get it down eventually. Also, 11 has so many skip phases if your dps is even average which makes it progressively easier as weeks go by. I remember the first time I downed it with the static I was in after like 6 weeks... haha needless to say it was something else. I can probably really have cleared both fights earlier if I was in a better group. Anyway, I feel pretty good about it. Everyone in the party had bonus except like two people and nobody died during the clear pull. It was 3 hours well spent XD

 

[Qvoth]

yeah, 12s as a whole is easier i feel as well, but the last phase is more unforgiving
i got stuck at <10% for close to 3 weeks+ at least even though i managed to reach the last phase within 2 weeks+ at most

 

[Johnlenham]

Inner Beast, Unchained, Steel Cyclone, and Infuriate? End game meta stuff aside, they're generally speaking some of the most useful things you'll get out of WAR. IB ignores Defiance's damage penalty and is your first raw mitigation skill as a WAR, Unchained strips the damage penalty from Defiance (which also means increased threat during the duration), Steel Cyclone is your best form of AoE, and Infuriate is on-demand any of those three. Warrior is one of the few jobs that really doesn't have a lot of useless skills, everything has a function.

Flash is basically an inferior option to Overpower so keeping room for it isn't really necessary? Outside of fairly limited situations (or something to press when Pacified by Berserk) it's typically not a skill worth having around.

See im not really sure how alot of that can fit on one controller setup haha, I mean I use Innerbeast (thats the first attack one right?)

I did read somewhere that flash becomes redundant so I could swap that out I suppose.
Also tried to do a macro that would free up 3 buttons (blood skill, warrior level 45 one and berserk) but it would only fire off berserk :/

 

[iammeiam]

It can be helpful during prog to tank LB the second Holy Bleed to make final phase smoother--IIRC you can still LB the boss post-timegate pre-Inception and still have LB2 for the second Bleed. It's not required, but since that spot is kind of chaotic it's one less thing to worry about (and incredibly useful if someone misses a soak during Communion). The long term strat is to just not have to do that part, but it makes the first few clears potentially less stressful.

 

[Stuart444]

See im not really sure how alot of that can fit on one controller setup haha, I mean I use Innerbeast (thats the first attack one right?)

I did read somewhere that flash becomes redundant so I could swap that out I suppose.
Also tried to do a macro that would free up 3 buttons (blood skill, warrior level 45 one and berserk) but it would only fire off berserk :/

as long as you're using the expanded cross hotbar, it's easy, all of it fits on my Bar 1 and Bar 8,

 

[Johnlenham]

as long as you're using the expanded cross hotbar, it's easy, all of it fits on my Bar 1 and Bar 8,

Hmm not sure. Just whatever the default one the game throws up on ps4.

I could probably move defiance off to an empty bar to make space,
Id also like a button that auto clears the bars actually thinking about it.

So MSQ gets going after garuda? I went up to the point of going to the new area but then went back to town and there was shit loads of new quests. Unfortunately they are ones sending me everywhere to beastmans m8 and ofcourse I had to do all the dailys for each one then get distracted by Goldsmithing levelling.

 

[Thorgal]

See im not really sure how alot of that can fit on one controller setup haha, I mean I use Innerbeast (thats the first attack one right?)

I did read somewhere that flash becomes redundant so I could swap that out I suppose.
Also tried to do a macro that would free up 3 buttons (blood skill, warrior level 45 one and berserk) but it would only fire off berserk :/

i used this for my War setup for the last year now :
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/3lqk18/my_comprehensive_tank_setup_for_controller/

it uses 4 hotbars in total

1 and 2 for my main skills
hotbar 7 which houses my PVP skills and potions ( only available when using either L2 and R2 simultaneously , does't matter in what order .
and Hotbar 8 which contains stuff like my mounts, teleport , crafting etc ..

it's set up so when my weapon is drawn i can only switch bars between bars 1 and 2 which means all skills i need is one R1 push away .

The macro's on Defiance and Deliverance are to switch the skills on the 1st hotbar to either Steel Cyclone and inner Beast when in Defiance And Decimate and Fell Cleave when in Deliverance .

i also macro'd the limit break button to the left thumbstick which also freed up another slot .

the only change i made to the above setup is i removed Fracture and also put Heavy swing there since i disliked having to continously switch between hot bars whenever i wanted to do my Deeps combo .

 

[SoundPulse]

I've thought about using a controller for more than just comfy couch gathering, but I've gotten so used to this monstrosity that it would take forever to find a controller setup I like:

 

[scy]

Steal Mythic dungeons from WoW. They're the only reason I'd ever want to go back to that dumb game, put it in XIV and save me the hassle.

Pretty much; there's a pretty vast wealth of old content they can reuse with some layered on top things that they can have pretty good difficult, or at least varied fresh, content without too much overhead in terms of development.

SMR lfm HULLBREAKER+5 MRD SCH MCH, LINK CHEEVO, ENGLISH ONLY

{I seem to have misplaced my keyboard}

 

[Stuart444]

Hmm not sure. Just whatever the default one the game throws up on ps4.

I could probably move defiance off to an empty bar to make space,
Id also like a button that auto clears the bars actually thinking about it.

The expanded hold controls at the top is what you should have on, that way you can access bar 8 via R2 -> L2 and L2 -> R2.

and these are my Warrior Bars (bar 1 and bar 8 respectively. I do have tank LB on bar 2 or 3 though)

 

[duckroll]

- Hildebrand quests are pretty wacky and funny. And it's teasing my favorite FF boss!!!!

- Finished 2.1 content and it pretty much ALL sucked except for the plot stinger at the end. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. But at least Vesper Bay is HISTORY. GOOD RIDDANCE!

- Got the Edden quest for Tam Tara Hard. Was surprised there's story for this when I thought she's in PotD? I haven't finished PotD 50 though... so I dunno what happens there...

- Good King Moogle Mog XII.... wtf?

I swear, some of this content was made while the team were very, very high...

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

Hoping they add the Knight armor from FF Tactics into one of the SB leveling dungeons. They did it for some of the Tactics Ogre sets so there's a precedent here.

 

[ebil]

- Hildebrand quests are pretty wacky and funny. And it's teasing my favorite FF boss!!!!

- Finished 2.1 content and it pretty much ALL sucked except for the plot stinger at the end. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. But at least Vesper Bay is HISTORY. GOOD RIDDANCE!

- Got the Edden quest for Tam Tara Hard. Was surprised there's story for this when I thought she's in PotD? I haven't finished PotD 50 though... so I dunno what happens there...

- Good King Moogle Mog XII.... wtf?

I swear, some of this content was made while the team were very, very high...

PoTD is technically the sequel to Tam Tara HM. Do the Tam Tara HM quest, it's really good!

 

[SoundPulse]

- Hildebrand quests are pretty wacky and funny. And it's teasing my favorite FF boss!!!!

- Finished 2.1 content and it pretty much ALL sucked except for the plot stinger at the end. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. But at least Vesper Bay is HISTORY. GOOD RIDDANCE!

- Got the Edden quest for Tam Tara Hard. Was surprised there's story for this when I thought she's in PotD? I haven't finished PotD 50 though... so I dunno what happens there...

- Good King Moogle Mog XII.... wtf?

I swear, some of this content was made while the team were very, very high...

If you've done PotD before Tam Tara Hard, you've actually done her storyline out of order. It's super easy to do that, but I'd rather PotD just be open, so eh.

And never count out the Walking Sands!

 

[aceface]

Nice, scholar-chan, you did good in mitigating livable damage that will be whiffed away by WHM's Medica 2 in a couple ticks. Good jorb.

Yes but did anyone ever get a book, a bird whistle, and a deed to a large housing plot for a Medica 2? I think not.

 

[iammeiam]

WHM doesn't need those things. They have Assize, The Actual Best Button In The Game.

 

[duckroll]

PoTD is technically the sequel to Tam Tara HM. Do the Tam Tara HM quest, it's really good!

If you've done PotD before Tam Tara Hard, you've actually done her storyline out of order. It's super easy to do that, but I'd rather PotD just be open, so eh.

And never count out the Walking Sands!

O-oh.

But that's weird, since PotD opens up really, really early in the game?

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

O-oh.

But that's weird, since PotD opens up really, really early in the game?

Palace of the Dead was released in patch 3.35, long after Tam-Tara Hard came out.

 

[duckroll]

Palace of the Dead was released in patch 3.35, long after Tam-Tara Hard came out.

I don't see how that changes anything. They control the prereqs for quests and unlocks. Stuff like PVP and Frontlines are still unlocked at lvl50 even though they were added later. If this is a story sequel, to an existing quest, what was stopping them from making it a prereq for unlocking PotD?

 

[Stone Ocean]

WHM doesn't need those things. They have Assize, The Actual Best Button In The Game.

Who do I have to fuck to get Assize with a 60s recast

 

[SoundPulse]

It's kind of weird, but I guess you won't actually know you're being spoiled until you get to the dungeon.

WHM doesn't need those things. They have Assize, The Actual Best Button In The Game.

Assize is great. It amazes me when I see fellow WHMs barely use it.
If nothing else, you can be lazy and use it like a medica you don't have to stand still for! You don't even have to stop your hopping rotation.

 

[ebil]

I don't see how that changes anything. They control the prereqs for quests and unlocks. Stuff like PVP and Frontlines are still unlocked at lvl50 even though they were added later. If this is a story sequel, to an existing quest, what was stopping them from making it a prereq for unlocking PotD?

When they released it, they basically said "we had to make a choice between pre-reqs and having players enjoy PoTD from a low level, so continuity be damned. We still encourage you to finish Tam Tara HM before doing PoTD for the best experience."

 

[EndcatOmega]

Pretty much; there's a pretty vast wealth of old content they can reuse with some layered on top things that they can have pretty good difficult, or at least varied fresh, content without too much overhead in terms of development.

Now you've said that they're just going to re-use Garuda, ARF and Brayflox HM somehow.

 

[Haly]

The real shocker here is duckroll still hasn't finished POTD 1-50.

 

[Stuart444]

WHM doesn't need those things. They have Assize, The Actual Best Button In The Game.

Only second to Fell Cleave. And maybe Death Flare.

Assize, Fell Cleave and Death Flare, the 3 most satisfying moves in the game.

 

[duckroll]

When they released it, they basically said "we had to make a choice between pre-reqs and having players enjoy PoTD from a low level, so continuity be damned. We still encourage you to finish Tam Tara HM before doing PoTD for the best experience."

No one told me this deep lore stuff. Instead, fuckers friends like this guy:

The real shocker here is duckroll still hasn't finished POTD 1-50.

Basically dragged me into PotD from the start, and continue to shame me for not finishing it.

 

[Wilsongt]

Only second to Fell Cleave. And maybe Death Flare.

Assize, Fell Cleave and Death Flare, the 3 most satisfying moves in the game.

I don't know... The sound of Sidewinder going off and crtting for upwards of 8k is pretty Kreygasm.

 

[EndcatOmega]

I enjoy whatever bard move makes Elezens shout "NEH" at the top of their lungs.

 

[Stone Ocean]

I enjoy whatever bard move makes Elezens shout "NEH" at the top of their lungs.

So every single one of them

 

[dramatis]

But at least Vesper Bay is HISTORY. GOOD RIDDANCE!

lol

 

[Thorgal]

*casually remembers the sounds the MCH made in TS while in raid when his Wildfire did 30K damage .

 

[scy]

Now you've said that they're just going to re-use Garuda, ARF and Brayflox HM somehow.

Nah, time to reuse Garuda normal, Brayflox normal, and Castrum.

Only second to Fell Cleave. And maybe Death Flare.

Assize, Fell Cleave and Death Flare, the 3 most satisfying moves in the game.

Satisfying is one thing (I will never tire of Fell Cleave or Deathflare, I think) but Assize is one of those bits of actually cool effects in a skill. Makes me wish most stance-related things were designed as pretty complete and streamlined as Assize ended up being.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

Steal Mythic dungeons from WoW. They're the only reason I'd ever want to go back to that dumb game, put it in XIV and save me the hassle.

As someone who has never played WoW, what are mythic dungeons like?

 

[Arkeband]

Steal Mythic dungeons from WoW. They're the only reason I'd ever want to go back to that dumb game, put it in XIV and save me the hassle.

They don't even really need that, they just need the basic suggestion in that MogTalk interview to add achievements and rewards for doing dungeons in a specific way (minimum ilvl is super boring and is easier than Yoshi-P was even describing considering there's a minimum ilvl toggle it can check for...)

WoW has had dungeons with alternate ways to complete them and, at bare minimum, achievements for clearing them quickly or without getting hit by certain mechanics since Wrath of the Lich King.

After or while they're implementing this, which can be applied retroactively to old dungeons, they should make dungeons that aren't a single line from point A to point B. Make a dungeon that lets you pick which boss you fight first, and then that boss's powers are absorbed by the next, and then the next, leading to a multitude of paths you can take for different difficulty options - baked into the dungeon itself without requiring extra queuing modes.

 

[scy]

As someone who has never played WoW, what are mythic dungeons like?

Basically take existing all the HW dungeons but give them a difficulty selection (+2, +3, +4, etc.) more HP/Damage and a range of additional modifiers (trash mobs leave damage puddles on death, trash buff enemies when killed, all mobs stack a debuff that absorbs healing, etc.). Rewards scale with difficulty and more rewards for faster clears (within time limit is one chest, 80% of limit is two, 60% of limit is three). The modifiers rotate weekly, though from a set list, and all the current dungeons are available to be chosen randomly for your dungeon so it's some variety with that.

It's still infinite grind content but it's also with scaling difficulty to it instead of farming a currency. It's imperfect with the reward structure still but it's hard to not expect communities to tend towards the path of least resistance options no matter what (aka, fastest dungeon only, rip longer / more annoying dungeons).

Make a dungeon that lets you pick which boss you fight first, and then that boss's powers are absorbed by the next, and then the next, leading to a multitude of paths you can take for different difficulty options - baked into the dungeon itself without requiring extra queuing modes.

The problem of these is the illusion of choice. Eventually you end up with a most efficient option and any failure to reach it tends towards bad experiences with random players. It's nice for doing once or with a set group of players but a lot less reliably fun long-term with random people day-to-day week-to-week.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

Basically take existing all the HW dungeons but give them a difficulty selection (+2, +3, +4, etc.) more HP/Damage and a range of additional modifiers (trash mobs leave damage puddles on death, trash buff enemies when killed, all mobs stack a debuff that absorbs healing, etc.). Rewards scale with difficulty and more rewards for faster clears (within time limit is one chest, 80% of limit is two, 60% of limit is three). The modifiers rotate weekly, though from a set list, and all the current dungeons are available to be chosen randomly for your dungeon so it's some variety with that.

It's still infinite grind content but it's also with scaling difficulty to it instead of farming a currency. It's imperfect with the reward structure still but it's hard to not expect communities to tend towards the path of least resistance options no matter what (aka, fastest dungeon only, rip longer / more annoying dungeons).

That sounds like an interesting way to provide more variety and player choice in running existing content, though as you say there will always be players who will calculate The One Fastest Way to get what they want.

 

[Johnlenham]

cheers for the responses guys. I will have a play about later with it, ideally all mu shit would be on one setup, like I have one for tanking and one for levelling but it does need reworking for sure.

 

[EndcatOmega]

Nah, time to reuse Garuda normal, Brayflox normal, and Castrum.

Well, as long as they're using the hardest Garuda fight.