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[Frumix]

And that's the point: Leave dungeon as low-risk easy fast way to get tomes/whatever, for people that just want the efficient fast way to farm, and create other content that is more varied and you don't have people bitching at other for wiping on hard bosses of for taking their time on that content.

I agree that endgame content needs an overhaul, not just through dungeons.

If you believe there's suddenly gonna be some sprawling and entertaining content when they can't really get dungeons right in a WoW clone, man I wish I had your optimism.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

If you believe there's suddenly gonna be some sprawling and entertaining content when they can't really get dungeons right in a WoW clone, man I wish I had your optimism.

I think they got dungeons right...for the purpose they are meant to fill.

They just need to get right other kind of content, PoTD shows they know the way, just need more polish.

 

[SliceSabre]

The dungeons wouldn't be so bad if those trash mobs dropped SOMETHING of value to feel like they are worth fighting.

 

[EndcatOmega]

Bring back Pharos HM.

 

[Kintaro]

One dungeon now? Lord. That other content better be amazing. Their record is 2-3 with that (potd/aquapolis vs diadem twice and cerminion).

 

[creid]

The dungeons wouldn't be so bad if those trash mobs dropped SOMETHING of value to feel like they are worth fighting.

I don't think they'll ever do this because it would make it too easy for botters to farm gil.

 

[MechaX]

And that's the point: Leave dungeon as low-risk easy fast way to get tomes/whatever, for people that just want the efficient fast way to farm, and create other content that is more varied and you don't have people bitching at other for wiping on hard bosses of for taking their time on that content.

I agree that endgame content needs an overhaul, not just through dungeons.

Since FF14 is my first MMO, now I really have to ask; if not dungeons, exactly what other content are we envisioning in this conversation?

My mind defaults to Raids, which many others in this topic has already discussed the issues with, but 14 seems to put people in the treadmill to raid completion as an end goal, not necessarily as a step in the process (although you do have normal raids as a step to grind towards Savage raids of the same thing). Otherwise, my mind does to PotD, Diadem, etc, which the team has already had issues with.

To put it in another way, what has WoW done or is currently doing to avoid the issues currently being discussed, assuming WoW has gotten over it at all?

 

[EndcatOmega]

Since FF14 is my first MMO, now I really have to ask; if not dungeons, exactly what other content are we envisioning in this conversation?

My mind defaults to Raids, which many others in this topic has already discussed the issues with, but 14 seems to put people in the treadmill to raid completion as an end goal, not necessarily as a step in the process (although you do have normal raids as a step to grind towards Savage raids of the same thing). Otherwise, my mind does to PotD, Diadem, etc, which the team has already had issues with.

To put it in another way, what has WoW done or is currently doing to avoid the issues currently being discussed, assuming WoW has gotten over it at all?

Mythic dungeons (I quit early cata, so SMN Who Stole My Name/Magic Bucket Thief/Blue Healer Slime/Belt Man could describe this a lot better probably) to be a way to keep the old dungeons relevant with repeatable, scaling difficulty and rewards that mostly appear to be glamour/relic equivalent stuff; I'm fine with palace of the dead filling that same niche but as it is it definitely does not come close.

 

[iammeiam]

WoW's approach is wildly different. They have a looot more room for gear rewards due to systems that let items proc upgrades. They use hard mode as literally a harder version of the same content, and Mythic is harder from there. Legion added Mythic+ which takes those dungeons and adds increasing difficulty modifiers and more damage/mob HP.

XIV's desire to be My First MMO means the gear progression path is so restrictive and boring that without a massive rework the gear can't support that range of gear dropping.

WoW also tends to add few dungeons between expansions so their resource allocation is super different.

 

[Anoregon]

To put it in another way, what has WoW done or is currently doing to avoid the issues currently being discussed, assuming WoW has gotten over it at all?

I think the most major thing WoW did to this end was increasing dungeon relevance at end game with the mythic+ system. It's a system that gives every max-level dungeon increasing levels of difficulty (and better loot) as you are able to clear previous difficulties. It is able to serve as a parallel gear/progression parth instead of raids being the only focus for PvE endgame, even though they still are probably the main focus.

 

[Frumix]

WoW doesn't add a lot of dungeons in patches normally - we got 1 (well, it's more like 2 but it's a rework of an old raid) in 7.1 and 1 in 7.2 in addition to 12 that already existed at launch. However the way it uses them is different - instead of specific level capped dungeons EVERY dungeon has a levelcap version that has higher tuned enemies and new mechanics, and then in addition to that there's Mythic version of each dungeon that's actually sorta hard mode and which you can run for relevant loot through the Mythic+ challenge system (progressively harder versions through stat modifiers and generic gimmicks, such as bosses being stronger this week or there being more trash).

The Mythic+ model is hands down the best thing about the current WoW expansion because it lets you do content appropriate for your skill with a small party and get non-trivial rewards out of it.

Other than that it's raiding, repeatable world quests and PvP. Raids are bigger and have multiple difficulty versions.

There's not really a whole lot of what you could say is casual content, like Aquapolis or cutscene-only quests but the PvE model, whatever hiccups (lol AP lol legendaries) there may be, works.

XIV tried to go into different types of activities with Heavensward with stuff like Diadem and Deep Dungeon, something that doesn't exist in WoW at all, but that stuff is very undercooked and shallow and doesn't really constitute something you'd be actively doing week to week as your PvE fix, dungeons are nothing but wage pinatas and raiding is both somewhat smaller and more predictable.

 

[SliceSabre]

I don't think they'll ever do this because it would make it too easy for botters to farm gil.

Are botters even a thing in Heavensward areas? I mean I rarely saw them in general when I moved to Balmung but by the time HW came out I never saw what I clearly thought was a bot unless I went to the the old ARR areas.

 

[Zidy]

Just resubbed after a year. Anyone from Ultros GAF guild able to invite me back? Name is Tyria Frey.

 

[EndcatOmega]

Just resubbed after a year. Anyone from Ultros GAF guild able to invite me back? Name is Tyria Frey.

Are you on now? Not seeing anyone with that name. Regardless, you'll need to search my name (Scything Moon) in player search, right click, look for 'see Free Company' and apply through there I believe (the Guildworks site has been left behind I think?)

 

[iammeiam]

I'd say Tanaan in Draenor was probably a better iteration of the Diadem concept, honestly. Catchup gear, decent high iLevel drops off Kazzak, etc. but it was a new persistent zone, not an isolated instance.

 

[Frumix]

I think they have zones like that every expansion since... TBC?. Mechanics vary but the idea of an actual endgame zone is pretty old.

 

[Kintaro]

Someone actually asked Yoshida (Mr. Happy I think?) if something akin to Mythic+ could be added to the game and the answer was pretty much "LOLno."

Mr. H: In World of Warcraft, the Mythic+ system gives standard dungeons more replayability. If you're unfamiliar, it allows players to re-run dungeons with more difficult enemies and random modifiers, such as more health or spawning more enemies in exchange for more powerful loot. Would you ever consider adding similar system? If not, would you give players more options to modify their dungeon/raid experience, similar to Minimum Item Level & Unsynced dungeons?

YoshiP: We are currently exploring ways to add challenges for players by increasing available play options with additional rewards for playing with limitations--such as playing with a set Minimum Item Level, or perhaps utilizing the unsynced dungeon function that we currently have in game. Since we are currently wrapped up in 4.0-related tasks, implementation of these ideas and would have to take place sometime during the 4.x series of updates. However, we are thinking about adding in mechanics that will add new layers of enjoyment for players through the existing dungeons once again. First, it is likely to become something along the lines of challenging yourself to a dungeon with your adventurer squadron.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/64tp98/mr_happys_interview_with_naoki_yoshida/

These bits were probably covered too but... https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/6eixht/nonjobrelated_tidbits_from_jp_na_and_eu/

PvE
Demand for 4-man savage content has been conveyed to Yoshi-P at a greater rate recently. He wants to incorporate this feedback into the design of the new Deep Dungeon, perhaps by making the more difficult floors more readily accessible (as opposed to locked behind a time-consuming climb as in the current one). The new Deep Dungeon is planned to include new objectives and mechanics. Nova Crystallis, Dengeki
The Sightseeing Log will include 45 new sights at launch, but there is also a Hard Mode version planned for 4.x Ethys
Cross-world friendslist and linkshells again confirmed to be in the works MMORPG.com. More "world-less" systems planned - they are considering cross-world FCs Avalonstar
FC crafting update in 4.1 Nova Crystallis [My comment: The question was about "personal airships or aerial combat" that was mentioned as an idea before Heavensward. Yoshi-P basically says "No comment yet, but we have something coming soon." We know submarines are coming to FC crafting, but could there be more?]
New Aquapolis again confirmed to be coming in patch 4.0 Easy Allies
Stormblood story is split about 50/50 between Othard and Ala Mhigo. There might be a few more percentage points in Ala Mhigo actually. Avalonstar. There was a significant part of the Lochs map (the area that features Ala Mhigo) that people at the media tour were not allowed to access due to spoilers [MrHappy].
Some sort of spectator mode for PvE raids again confirmed to be coming in the near future (will be more involved than just spectating) Easy Allies
The final battle of Omega will be as visually impressive as T13 Bahamut. Yoshi-P hints at something especially impressive for the Savage version. MogTalk - Frosty and Layla
"Super Savage"/beyond-Savage content in odd-numbered patches reward bragging rights (more than a title - loot). High end versions of raids we've already seen. Will not be a full raid tier - will be 1 battle. Difficulty similar to Second Coil Savage. Same designer as the Second Coil Savage. MogTalk - Frosty and Layla [My comment: I've speculated before that this will be 1 old 24-man Savage boss. They've already shown Ozma Savage footage and they've talked about Ozma Savage on multiple occasions... so maybe?]
Edit: "The current plan... is odd numbered patches will have one dungeon and some other new content while even numbered patches will have two new dungeons and QOL improvements." MMORPG.com [My comment: This wasn't presented as a direct quote, so it could be a misunderstanding (especially since the following paragraph explains that Yoshi-P doesn't want to add older dungeons to Expert roulette for fear of people abandoning if they get a higher ilvl one), but it kinda makes sense with how they plan to focus on more diverse types of content, such as releasing the beyond-Savage boss, the siege PvP mode, the GC Squadrons content, the FC crafting update, and likely Eureka all in 4.1. Then a new Aquapolis in 4.0, a new Deep Dungeon eventually, and a new content category in 4.2 and beyond]

PvP
New PvP mode was initially aimed for 4.05, but it took too long to develop, so it's planned for release in 4.1 instead Nova Crystallis, PlayStation Access, PCGamesN
The new mode will involve large-scale battles between 2-teams. It doesn't really fall into either of the Frontlines or Feast categories, so it's something a bit new PlayStation Access
It will involve mechs and weapons - something about a certain raid boss (Brute Justice was mentioned) 4gamer, Famitsu, MogTalk - Frosty and Layla (timestamp 31:15) [My comment: This could be the siege/castle raid mode they talked about on a few occasions in the past here and old concept art here. With mechs? Heck ye!] Edit: Very_Merri and MrHappy also confirmed siege weapon PvP in 4.1
PvP will be available from level 30 and as part of the free trial (ranked matches are not available to free trial players) Famitsu, 4gamer
PvP will grant EXP for your class in PvE from level 30 all the way to 70 Dengeki, 4gamer
Old achievements such as those from the Wolves' Den will be moved to the Feast. It seems they plan on removing Wolves' Den completely. Easy Allies
Frontlines rules might be put on some sort of a rotation (perhaps weekly) Easy Allies, 4gamer

 

[iammeiam]

I think they have zones like that every expansion since... TBC?. Mechanics vary but the idea of an actual endgame zone is pretty old.

Tanaan was largely interesting to me because it came after-the-fact, played into the Legendary ring stuff, had the grind for currency, the RNG gear, etc. not just that it was an end-game zone, but that mechanically a lot of it mapped to Diadem pretty directly. Kazzak was how you do Emergency Missions if you don't secretly hate your players.

Edit: Legendary ring and, I assume, the Pandaria cloak were like 16 million times better implementations of the relic concept, too.

 

[Hippopuncher12]

So I haven't played this game since a couple of months after the relaunch, think I got my summoner to like level 30? Anyway I am wanting to give it another go, and kind of want to start over from the start. What is the best class to use solo or does it even matter?

 

[Squishy3]

edit: holy shit, i'm an idiot. didn't see this was posted just two posts above mine.

 

[Xion_Stellar]

So I haven't played this game since a couple of months after the relaunch, think I got my summoner to like level 30? Anyway I am wanting to give it another go, and kind of want to start over from the start. What is the best class to use solo or does it even matter?

For story mode content it doesn't really matter just use whatever you want but just know that using a DPS will result in longer queue times for Dungeons.

 

[aceface]

Well, 4.1 is also Return to Ivalice. I supposed it's too much for me to hope that they are planning some large scale Ivalice related content blowout. Iirc Yoshi also mentioned something along the lines of new zones opening up during the 4.x patch cycle. It wasn't specifically Ivalice, but zones you'd hear about but wouldn't be able to travel to right away.

 

[Zutrax]

I played the game back just when Heavensward had released, but have not touched a single bit of Heavensward content despite purchasing it. (Life happened)

I was also a WHM main, and I'm hearing a bunch of concerns regarding the class in the meta.

If I want to be a viable healer, should I switch classes? What should I be looking to? Also how should I approach content to be ready for Stormblood? Should I even bother and just wait for Stormblood and pay for the boosts?

Also if I plant to stick to WHM I barely even remember how to play the game or what I was doing in the game. Does anyone have an easy "catch up guide" for players who are somewhat familiar with the game but need to reacquaint themselves?

Also regarding the GAF free company, it's been awhile, but if I'm not in the same server I assume I can't join it?

 

[Hippopuncher12]

For story mode content it doesn't really matter just use whatever you want but just know that using a DPS will result in longer queue times for Dungeons.

Thanks, that is pretty much what I figured.

 

[Mister_Ruck]

So let's go down the numbers:

You missed Snowcloak in 2.4 and Keeper of the Lake in 2.5.

It wasn't until HW where they started the two dungeon roulettes. Even then they played it off like they were rushed for time, but then 6 months later 3.1 rolled around with just two more dungeons and they never went back.



As for POTD, I think it's super super boring. Not that expert roulettes are not also boring, but there's zero challenge or variety in POTD despite being randomly generated and I'd rather just not play than play more POTD honestly.

 

[Xion_Stellar]

I played the game back just when Heavensward had released, but have not touched a single bit of Heavensward content despite purchasing it. (Life happened)

I was also a WHM main, and I'm hearing a bunch of concerns regarding the class in the meta.

If I want to be a viable healer, should I switch classes? What should I be looking to? Also how should I approach content to be ready for Stormblood? Should I even bother and just wait for Stormblood and pay for the boosts

If you plan to Raid in Stormblood than there's not alot of people that would recommend sticking with a White Mage at the moment unless things for that Job are changed (again). Should you buy a Jump Potion? I would say no but that decision is ultimately yours and how desperate you are to play the latest content.

Also if I plant to stick to WHM I barely even remember how to play the game or what I was doing in the game. Does anyone have an easy "catch up guide" for players who are somewhat familiar with the game but need to reacquaint themselves?

Here's the latest catch up guide for gear but it will be outdated by the time Stormblood drops:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HkWhxbEiTHXXaoTaHiCNQmVgwTXLrGchcqa3AeQCpG8/edit?usp=sharing

As for a gude to get used to a White Mage I don't have one on hand but I feel like posting one isn't a good idea either since so much is changing when Stormblood drops.

Also regarding the GAF free company, it's been awhile, but if I'm not in the same server I assume I can't join it?

That's correct if you're not on Ultros you can't join the GAF Free Company

 

[Arkeband]

ARR: 3 dungeons per patch
HW: 2 dungeons per patch
SB: 1.5 dungeons per patch

don't worry guys they've got so much more funding this time around they'd never...

 

[iammeiam]

As for POTD, I think it's super super boring. Not that expert roulettes are not also boring, but there's zero challenge or variety in POTD despite being randomly generated and I'd rather just not play than play more POTD honestly.

Have you done a solo no-death run to 100 or an undersized party run to 200? Or just dinked around over 180 in general?

It's not perfect, but I'm sticking with the last 20 to thirty floors holding the potential for more on-the-fly thinking and complementing stress (oh my god why does everything hit so hard EOS GET OUT OF THE AOE oh fml chimera patrol everything is awful) than anything else in the game.

It's not perfect, and the slog to get back is an issue, but it's literally the only piece of content in the game that can surprise you because not totally scripted and stuff hits hard.

 

[Zutrax]

If you plan to Raid in Stormblood than there's not alot of people that would recommend sticking with a White Mage at the moment unless things for that Job are changed (again). Should you buy a Jump Potion? I would say no but that decision is ultimately yours and how desperate you are to play the latest content.



Here's the latest catch up guide for gear but it will be outdated by the time Stormblood drops:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HkWhxbEiTHXXaoTaHiCNQmVgwTXLrGchcqa3AeQCpG8/edit?usp=sharing

As for a gude to get used to a White Mage I don't have one on hand but I feel like posting one isn't a good idea either since so much is changing when Stormblood drops.




That's correct if you're not on Ultros you can't join the GAF Free Company

Thanks for some of the advice. I do want to be viable as a healer in endgame, so is AST the best meta right now for that? I need to reacquaint myself with the game anyway so maybe doing a class from scratch might help.

 

[wamberz1]

Thanks for some of the advice. I do want to be viable as a healer in endgame, so is AST the best meta right now for that? I need to reacquaint myself with the game anyway so maybe doing a class from scratch might help.

AST seems to be in a pretty good place right now, plus it starts at 30 so it would take less time to level it if you decided to do so.

 

[Xion_Stellar]

Thanks for some of the advice. I do want to be viable as a healer in endgame, so is AST the best meta right now for that? I need to reacquaint myself with the game anyway so maybe doing a class from scratch might help.

Astrologian is the best Raid Healer RIGHT NOW.
Will this remain true for Stormblood? 90% chance that Astrologian will still be top dog in Stormblood Raids.

 

[iammeiam]

AST has a 900 potency AOE heal (what in the hell seriously 900 wtf) in Stormblood and the ability to recycle trash cards into decent free healing or damage

This feels like somebody forgot to tell the job designers AST has been viable for prog since Midas and they're still buffing like it is 3.0

 

[Stone Ocean]

AST has a 900 potency AOE heal (what in the hell seriously 900 wtf) in Stormblood and the ability to recycle trash cards into decent free healing or damage

This feels like somebody forgot to tell the job designers AST has been viable for prog since Midas and they're still buffing like it is 3.0

"We're gonna balance WAR SCH and AST come 4.0, don't worry"

"And by balance I mean balance the AST card, we're gonna permanently apply it to those jobs"

 

[Xion_Stellar]

AST has a 900 potency AOE heal (what in the hell seriously 900 wtf) in Stormblood and the ability to recycle trash cards into decent free healing or damage

This feels like somebody forgot to tell the job designers AST has been viable for prog since Midas and they're still buffing like it is 3.0

Mwahahaha! You won't get any complaints from me!

 

[Foxxsoxx]

Just keep in mind that AST or WHM change can and probably will happen before launch.

It isn't set in stone IV.

I'm going to see myself out.

 

[Yam's]

Not sure how I feel about them doing less dungeons, but even with 3 dungeons the exp roulette quickly bore me in 2.x. I really hope they can add some new fun ways to cap your tomes this time. I always end up taking a break from the game because of its progression system, so I'm very curious to see what kind of new content they'll create instead of dungeons.

Mystic dungeons from WoW would work nicely, but they cannot do it as long as they don't completely rework their progression system, so we know this won't happen. I'm cautiously optimistic for the 4.x's new PoTD though. Hope they can deliver something good.

 

[Xion_Stellar]

Just keep in mind that AST or WHM change can and probably will happen before launch.

It isn't set in stone IV.

I'm going to see myself out.

I been playing with Astrologian since early access for Heavensward so even if Astrologian does end up getting nerfed I will still be playing the Astrologian. I don't shift my Job choices based on the Meta I just play whatever I feel like playing and once I choose a Job I stick with it through the thick and thin until the day I quit the game.

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

I would rather they focus their efforts on developing content that will hopefully have more replayability then churning out more dungeons.

New Deep Dungeon

New PvP siege mode that will hopefully be actual fun.

Updated Aquapolis

Eureka

Return to Ivalice

I would be fine with them just keeping it to 1 new dungeon every so often if we'll get new stuff in its place.

 

[Aeana]

"We're gonna balance WAR SCH and AST come 4.0, don't worry"

"And by balance I mean balance the AST card, we're gonna permanently apply it to those jobs"

4.1: party members grouped with an astrologian will now receive the effect of all cards for as long as they are in the same party

 

[wamberz1]

I been playing with Astrologian since early access for Heavensward so even if Astrologian does end up getting nerfed I will still be playing the Astrologian. I don't shift my Job choices based on the Meta I just play whatever I feel like playing and once I choose a Job I stick with it through the thick and thin until the day I quit the game.

Same here. There is nothing I hate more than starting a new game, picking a character/class, having a lot of fun with them but then being told "Oh you can't play them, they suck." That's actually one of the main reasons I got into FFXIV. I knew it was PVE focused so there would be less stress regarding end game play, since it's not really a competition or anything.

That being said.... I would NOT be happy if I were a WHM player right now.

 

[Stone Ocean]

I mean, all jobs will still be viable, you'll just get meme'd to death

 

[LaneDS]

Re-subbed yesterday and bought Stormblood. Haven't played since finishing the HW story and I think doing some of the 3.1 content. Outside of the MSQ catch-up, what do y'all recommend I take the time to check out? Not going to rush just to be ready for Stormblood launch and would rather see all the neat stuff they've added since 3.1.

 

[Stuart444]

I mean, all jobs will still be viable, you'll just get meme'd to death

So like Dragoons then?

 

[Haly]

Dragoons die on their own with or without memes.

 

[SliceSabre]

A Dragoon that doesn't learn their lesson is a Dragoon I don't revive.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

Re-subbed yesterday and bought Stormblood. Haven't played since finishing the HW story and I think doing some of the 3.1 content. Outside of the MSQ catch-up, what do y'all recommend I take the time to check out? Not going to rush just to be ready for Stormblood launch and would rather see all the neat stuff they've added since 3.1.

Hildebrand, Palace of the Dead, and if you can get in a treasure map/Aquapolis party.

 

[PshycoNinja]

Thirsty?

Edit: I guess this is replaces the Papa John's partnership.

 

[Kwansu Dudes]

Is Heavensward included with ARR?

 

[Killthee]

Is Heavensward included with ARR?

It's included in stormblood.

 

[Xion_Stellar]

Is Heavensward included with ARR?

Heavensward is only included with Stormblood