Pyros_Eien
Member
There is a bundle with both, but no. Heavensward is included with Stormblood, not ARR.
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Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward |OT3| Keniki Gauge Cost: 20,000
- Thread starter Ken
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There is a bundle with both, but no. Heavensward is included with Stormblood, not ARR.
Kwansu Dudes
Member
Thanks a lot! I Got incredibly confused looking for it online and on the PS Store. I'm guessing it's not valid for purchase because I'm using the free trial.
Xion_Stellar
People should stop referencing data that makes me feel uncomfortable because games get ported to platforms I don't like
Oh yeah I agree I wouldn't be happy either but this right here is the test that will separate the real White Mages from the bandwagon hoppers and Meta shifters.
People left because they couldn't deal with Wanderer's Minuet? I stuck around with the Bard. People made fun of the Astrologian for not being so great upon release in 3.0? I still picked up the Job. But look at them now they either want to try the very Job they mocked or want to come back to the Job they left.
If people didn't grumble or stop playing them, those two jobs would've probably continued to suck.
No matter how you slice it, WM is not fun.Stone Ocean
Member
I didn't leave Bard, Bard left me. And if anything I still stuck with Bowmage for 4 patches before going "Hey wait a sec, Rain of Blood + Cast times is the worst thing ever"
Yoshi knows what's up.
http://www.dualshockers.com/final-fantasy-xiv-stormblood-interview-naoki-yoshida/
http://www.dualshockers.com/final-fantasy-xiv-stormblood-interview-naoki-yoshida/
Yoshida said:
What do you call people who stop playing jobs when they stop being fun? There's no merit in playing a job that lost its core just because the name is the same. Desperately trying to communicate to the developers that the treatment a job is getting is unacceptable to the players is, long-term, more likely to afffect positive change than going ride or die on whatever you rolled first.
I give bandwagon machinisis shit largely because I have a super immature sense of humor, but I don't actually think there's anything wrong with playing whatever's the most enjoyable or most effective at the time. It's not a mark of real commitment to a job to insist on playing it if it's been made worse. And, frankly, had Minuet not had an obvious impact on the numbers of people playing Bard we'd possibly still have Minuet.
Which is a long way of saying: If people want to keep playing WHM, awesome, but it's silly to imply that not wanting to wade into the hot mess that the lily/confesssions system seems to be is the players failing the job. WHM and the players frankly deserve better than SE is giving them.
Playing bad jobs isn't a sign of loyalty and wanting to play things only if they are enjoyable to play isn't betraying True Whatever.
BossDarkseid
Member
Healed with Astro through Brayflox for the first time. It was pretty fun! I was quite involved during the final boss because some people took a while to move out of poison pools. Also got Ifrit on the early level roulette and Titan on todays. Titan was moderately tough because he just hit pretty hard, but it was never a panic-y "OH SHIT!".
Playing Astro at some intensity makes me realize the UI atm really isn't that suited for distributing buffs from my cards etc. I've also realized just how much you watch those DoT indicators under the health bar....
Playing Astro at some intensity makes me realize the UI atm really isn't that suited for distributing buffs from my cards etc. I've also realized just how much you watch those DoT indicators under the health bar....
SuperStiltzkin
Member
Pretty much all my crafters are at 55 now except CUL and ARM at 54, but should get ARM to 55 after today's Moogle quests. Also managed to get into the Aquapolis for the first time last night. Only two of us though, Warrior and WHM. Cleared the first room and got booted out after picking the wrong door. Aquapolis seems fun and you get good craft materials!
LordKasual
Banned
Dunno why people are shitting on WHM. There's nothing wrong with the class.
People have trouble healing with them? I find them to be the most reliable healers, and their capacity to DPS feels higher than Ast or Sch.
Raid utility however is something else entirely. Whether or not WHM as a class is sufficient depends entirely on how Stormblood's endgame content is.
People have trouble healing with them? I find them to be the most reliable healers, and their capacity to DPS feels higher than Ast or Sch.
Raid utility however is something else entirely. Whether or not WHM as a class is sufficient depends entirely on how Stormblood's endgame content is.
BossDarkseid
Member
Yuss. I've loved noclip so far, just finished watching the extended interview with iD where Hugo Martin offers to wax lyrical about Bloodborne for 45 mins. The lengthy stuff is really interesting,
SuperStiltzkin
Member
Neat, always love to hear how they steered FFXIV around.
Stone Ocean
Member
The problem isn't the class, the problem is there's not much value in WHM's identity. Pure healing isn't necessary beyond early progression and every other healer brings more utility and DPS. Beyond that, every job got cool new systems and abilities while WHM gets badly designed stuff and loses a bunch of skills unique to them with no compensation. WHM players have every right to feel left behind.
As for the bolded, the problem is with the way WHM is currently designed having content that accomodates them creates a whole bunch of different issues.
royox
Member
Why would anybody turn off COMBAT MUSIC in a Final Fantasy game??
The systems added in SB are not good. The core concept of being a good WHM involves minimizing GCDs casting Cure and Cure 2. Using oGCDs, regens, etc to heal.
Lilies and Confession are driven entirely by low-probability procs on Cure and Cure 2. Lilies, as a reward, give you CD reductions. But since they're RNG and you have to plan healing around what you can do, shaving a few seconds off Tetra or Assize is not great. Confessions are worse--spam single target cures to proc low-odds stacks to enable to use an AOE heal that will only heal people you've been single targeting. This is a garbage skill. There are ways to make it less garbage, but right now it is _really bad_.
And that's before touching on the changes not addressing where WHM has historically been weak--utility.
This is a really, really bad set of skills for the job. Not because Literally Can't Heal, but because the mechanics are bad and they made no effort to give WHM a broader skill set.
FROWARD AND BACK AND THEN FORWARD AND BACK AND THEN GO FORWARD AND BACK THEN PUT ONE FOOT FORWARD
Xion_Stellar
People should stop referencing data that makes me feel uncomfortable because games get ported to platforms I don't like
If people didn't grumble or stop playing them, those two jobs would've probably continued to suck.
Oh no don't get me wrong I didn't like Wanderer's Minuet either but I feel a sense of loyalty towards the Jobs I pick so I stick with them regardless of how "bad" they may seem to other people.
I just find this whole situation amusing because of the contrast between the perception people had for Bard & Astrologian in 3.0 versus what they see now in 4.0
As for the White Mage situation I don't know the full extent of the matter because I don't play as a White Mage but it doesn't seems like the situation can be compared to Wanderer's Minuet. The Bard Job was negatively affected by Wanderer's Minuet because the Job wasn't clearly designed​ to have a Cast time on it's Actions but that doesn't seem to be the case with what's going on with the White Mage.
The Lily/confesssions system doesn't make the White Mage play worse in the same sense that Wanderet Minuet did does it? It feels like people are upset about because in comparison to the 2 other Healing Jobs the White Mage doesn't feel like it got much of an upgrade (too much RNG with Cure 1/2 that healers don't spam all the time) so obviously White Mages are not desired for Raid Compositions but on it's own without comparing it to the other Healers it doesn't look as bad as what they did to the Bard with Wanderer's Minuet.
Feel free to educate me on the subject if you think I'm wrong or missed something regarding the White Mage outrage right now.
hosannainexcelsis
Member
Exactly! Why would anyone turn that off!
Mister_Ruck
Member
I've done 1-50 solo but I wiped on purpose to get the achievement because this was back when nobody was really sure how the achievements worked. I might go back and do 1-100 pretty soon here just so I have something to do. I completed all the Verminion challenges last night so I'm really scraping the bottle of the barrel at this point haha.
As for floor 200, nah, I've never done it. I've tried a few times but my friends and I can never stick with it long enough. I think the furthest we've made it is like floor 160 or 170. I think having more variety in the environments would go a long way to making it more enjoyable for me personally. Like yeah the walls change design occasionally but you're always inside a dark boring area with recycled music and it just feels lazy.
I'm also not a big fan of the way people use it to level jobs and then enter content without actually knowing how to play, but that's another issue entirely and not one exclusive to potd. But the glowing red weapon definitely gives it away
I did a lot of leveling around HW launch and leveling 3.0 AST in the Vault with first time tank DRKs made me realize dungeon leveling didn't teach other people how to play either.
I do think you've just missed the best part, then. 180 Behemoth was flipping terrifying the first couple times, and the last few sets of floors are pretty good at just throwing mechanics at you.
What's going on with WHM right now is considerably worse than Minuet. Minuet made the job play janky, but it didn't make Bard bad at what it did. Minuet was a playstyle change that was initially undertuned a bit, but 3.0 Bard was still a poerfectly functional and viable job because the additions to the job outside of Minuet--EA, Iron Jaws, Sidewinder--were good thing that made sense. Bard played janky, but was by far the preferred ranged job in 3.0. IJ put both dots in sync and made getting full benefit out of CDs on DoTs super easy! Sidewinder was Bard Fester! EA was great!
WHM got a bunch of stuff that doesn't do anything, and nothing that builds on areas they were weak. Actually using most of their new stuff will feel bad and not really make their job better or more fun. It's still going to be awesome for EXDR, but you're basically going to be playing it like level 60 WHM. where Minuet was a janky overlay on a valued job that got some neat skills, SB WHM is a bunch of useless and bad skills on top of something that was already overkill in raw heals.
I do think you've just missed the best part, then. 180 Behemoth was flipping terrifying the first couple times, and the last few sets of floors are pretty good at just throwing mechanics at you.
What's going on with WHM right now is considerably worse than Minuet. Minuet made the job play janky, but it didn't make Bard bad at what it did. Minuet was a playstyle change that was initially undertuned a bit, but 3.0 Bard was still a poerfectly functional and viable job because the additions to the job outside of Minuet--EA, Iron Jaws, Sidewinder--were good thing that made sense. Bard played janky, but was by far the preferred ranged job in 3.0. IJ put both dots in sync and made getting full benefit out of CDs on DoTs super easy! Sidewinder was Bard Fester! EA was great!
WHM got a bunch of stuff that doesn't do anything, and nothing that builds on areas they were weak. Actually using most of their new stuff will feel bad and not really make their job better or more fun. It's still going to be awesome for EXDR, but you're basically going to be playing it like level 60 WHM. where Minuet was a janky overlay on a valued job that got some neat skills, SB WHM is a bunch of useless and bad skills on top of something that was already overkill in raw heals.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
Some of the new WHM abilities actively encourage you to screw yourself over in order to get their effects.
People who play WHM, especially those who main WHM and were looking forward to changes to make playing their job more fun (I mean that's what you expect from an expansion right?) have every right to complain.
This has nothing to do with meta, raids or whatever the fuck. This comes before all of that. This is basic fundamental bad design.
There are more than enough posts breaking this down in detail to the point that no one should be able to claim ignorance on the issues in question.
People who play WHM, especially those who main WHM and were looking forward to changes to make playing their job more fun (I mean that's what you expect from an expansion right?) have every right to complain.
This has nothing to do with meta, raids or whatever the fuck. This comes before all of that. This is basic fundamental bad design.
There are more than enough posts breaking this down in detail to the point that no one should be able to claim ignorance on the issues in question.
Stone Ocean
Member
Using Minuet, while being a playstyle shift, awarded you with shit.
The Lily/Confession system awards you for playing your job badly and pretty much doesn't exist if you play it properly. Getting 3 Lilies will basically never happen if you're not making mistakes because you'll never cast Cure/Cure 2 enough to get 3 without using any oGCDs in between. It's literally nothing.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
WHM really sounds like they run out of time and they left half of the WHM revision and tuning to do.
Not sure, if it will be meta or not, but dosn't look fun at all.
Not sure, if it will be meta or not, but dosn't look fun at all.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Lilly stacks should have been a 20% chance on regen tick thing, it's whm the hot based healer
Also 10-30% cooldown reduction so it's a good bonus no matter the number
1= 4% makes no sense
Also 10-30% cooldown reduction so it's a good bonus no matter the number
1= 4% makes no sense
What The Fox
Neo Member
I'm really not a fan of how they're changing whm - my main since I started in 2.1
-whm still will have basically no utility.
-need to use 5/5 cross role slots just to get back what used to be inherent to the class: protect, divine seal (largesse), shroud (lucid dreaming), esuna (now without the trait), and the heavy effect (one of few utilities) from the now removed-as-you-level stone 1 (break).
-throw in clerics (seems like a pretty undertuned buff now though) and you actually can't even get back all of the skills that whm used to have even after using all cross role slots. Not to mention there are other mandatory cross role skills like swiftcast, so this is a net loss of at least 2 previous whm skills.
-largesse is a much worse version of divine seal: 50% longer cd, and only 2/3 as strong.
-lost our only gcd shield (stoneskin).
-I don't even know where to start about these lilies. Why WHY is SE adding this of all mechanics to whm? Whm is defined by its HoTs, no whm is spamming cure/cure ii on a target. The procs are so low, and the effect so minimal. Whm is already a more than good enough healer, but lacks in other places. Nothing here to fill in the gaps. I do not understand what they're doing.
To avoid being entirely negative, I do like:
-assize cd reduction
-bene cd reduction
-lucid dreaming is 2 ticks longer than shroud.
I still can't help but feel pretty bummed out by all of this. I'm really hoping, at a minimum, they rethink some of those proc percentages as well as which skills can trigger it.
-whm still will have basically no utility.
-need to use 5/5 cross role slots just to get back what used to be inherent to the class: protect, divine seal (largesse), shroud (lucid dreaming), esuna (now without the trait), and the heavy effect (one of few utilities) from the now removed-as-you-level stone 1 (break).
-throw in clerics (seems like a pretty undertuned buff now though) and you actually can't even get back all of the skills that whm used to have even after using all cross role slots. Not to mention there are other mandatory cross role skills like swiftcast, so this is a net loss of at least 2 previous whm skills.
-largesse is a much worse version of divine seal: 50% longer cd, and only 2/3 as strong.
-lost our only gcd shield (stoneskin).
-I don't even know where to start about these lilies. Why WHY is SE adding this of all mechanics to whm? Whm is defined by its HoTs, no whm is spamming cure/cure ii on a target. The procs are so low, and the effect so minimal. Whm is already a more than good enough healer, but lacks in other places. Nothing here to fill in the gaps. I do not understand what they're doing.
To avoid being entirely negative, I do like:
-assize cd reduction
-bene cd reduction
-lucid dreaming is 2 ticks longer than shroud.
I still can't help but feel pretty bummed out by all of this. I'm really hoping, at a minimum, they rethink some of those proc percentages as well as which skills can trigger it.
Stone Ocean
Member
Also making it so you can spend Lilies to make Benison AoE would have been amazing since it would give WHM much needed mitigation instead of burning any Lilies you might have with no fucking benefits.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
It get's the same as other lilly skills cooldown reduction
Stone Ocean
Member
Oh yeah, I actually almost forgot that was a thing
Cooldown reduction on specific/timered use abilities is about as useless as can be; the only way to really get a true use out of a cooldown based reduction would be if it allows for use of one oGCD ability without triggering the cooldown, even if the ability is already on cooldown.
Basically needing to gain a use in the same window otherwise it's saved for "The Plan" anyway.
Basically needing to gain a use in the same window otherwise it's saved for "The Plan" anyway.
What The Fox
Neo Member
Also, in 2.X, whm had a gcd 18% shield - graniteskin. Now, all we have is a 15% shield that's on a 60s cd and which requires lilies. I'd much rather have even the on demand 10% stoneskin back over that, if I had to choose.
Ok so I'm trying this trial out, just when I was getting into ESO: Morrowind last week...the upcoming FFXIV expansion piqued my interest.
I'm probably going to test both for a couple weeks before deciding which one to stick with. Both are very gamepad friendly, but since FFXIV is cross platform with PS4, I feel more like I'm not gimped since that's like half the userbase probably playing with controllers where on ESO (PC) it's majority KB/M players. That said, FFXIV on PC the UI navigation definitely doesn't seem all that gamepad friendly, combat works great though.
Now, onto my questions...since I'm just starting out: can I mainly focus on story quests in FFXIV? Or will I be ubderleveled as I go from area to area forcing me to grind to do the next story quest? I want to cut out as much of the what seems endless side quests.
Secondly, is there a reccomended job for beginner player on gamepad? I just went with the sword job I forget what it's called, can I solo with this job effectively or should I switch to something else (I like melee).
Third, what's a good level to get to to get an overall good feel of the game and all that it offers? I think the trial goes to 35? I don't wanna plop down $$ for game/expansions until I have a good idea about the game
I'm probably going to test both for a couple weeks before deciding which one to stick with. Both are very gamepad friendly, but since FFXIV is cross platform with PS4, I feel more like I'm not gimped since that's like half the userbase probably playing with controllers where on ESO (PC) it's majority KB/M players. That said, FFXIV on PC the UI navigation definitely doesn't seem all that gamepad friendly, combat works great though.
Now, onto my questions...since I'm just starting out: can I mainly focus on story quests in FFXIV? Or will I be ubderleveled as I go from area to area forcing me to grind to do the next story quest? I want to cut out as much of the what seems endless side quests.
Secondly, is there a reccomended job for beginner player on gamepad? I just went with the sword job I forget what it's called, can I solo with this job effectively or should I switch to something else (I like melee).
Third, what's a good level to get to to get an overall good feel of the game and all that it offers? I think the trial goes to 35? I don't wanna plop down $$ for game/expansions until I have a good idea about the game
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
From what I can gather they don't want whm to super focus on the lily stuff it's there as a bonus. Ideally the mt gets his cure 1 and 2's and that will speed up the cooldowns of other stuff potentially,
Then when the tank needs a post tankbuster heal you rev up Cure 2 into
Which cost 0 lillies which is good as you just bensioned
Which imo is the nice new whm tool with 0 mana cost
Then when the tank needs a post tankbuster heal you rev up Cure 2 into
Which cost 0 lillies which is good as you just bensioned
Which imo is the nice new whm tool with 0 mana cost
Stone Ocean
Member
You have Tetra for that and that only works if you have Confession stacks, if the RNG gods didn't bless you with a proc 30s in advance then that skill is useless. There is no point to situational mechanics when we have non-situational tools to deal with the situations they'd be useful in.From what I can gather they don't want whm to super focus on the lily stuff it's there as a bonus. Ideally the mt gets his cure 1 and 2's and that will speed up the cooldowns of other stuff potentially,
Then when the tank needs a post tankbuster heal you rev up Cure 2 into
Which cost 0 lillies which is good as you just bensioned
Which imo is the nice new whm tool with 0 mana cost
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
Looks like there are new sprint animations for all jobs.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Eh, I just think their lilies need the change posted above and they are fine
In the end a lot of this is wait and see stuff we have no real idea the rate and how much burst damage will be flung at us in the new stuff.
For the most part the new stuff for the healers lines up with what they have been
Whm : more ways to keep everyone topped off most notably the tank, stone skin removed in exchange for a built in swiftcast stoneskin on a 60 sec cooldown
Sch: fairy gimmick, a dps tool, a new lustrate type move that works with mitigation on dangerous hits
Ast: Another card gimmick, a random all slot draw for quick buffs, and a new aoe heal
FFXIV is very controller-friendly as far as MMOs go. I've raided as a bard on controller and never felt held back. The relatively long GCD helps a lot in keeping KB/M and controller players on even footing.
If you're on PC, make sure to go into character settings and set the UI to gamepad mode. Some of the UI still isn't great on a controller, but it's all manageable.
It's definitely viable for most of your EXP to come from story quests, but at some point you'll want to run some daily roulettes or hit up Palace of the Dead or something for more EXP. You can't get all your EXP from the main story.
Personally, I don't think the game really opens up until level 50 - early levels have much slower and simpler combat than you'll have at the end-game, and progression can be a bit slow. The base game's story also has an unfortunate number of fetch quests and tedium built-in. Still, the last bit of story content you'll get access to in the trial is the Titan fight, which is a pretty fun story boss.
AuthenticM
Member
yes! Can't wait!
Xion_Stellar
People should stop referencing data that makes me feel uncomfortable because games get ported to platforms I don't like
Ohhh OK now I see what the whole thing is about and you're right we had our gripes with Wanderer's Minuet but everything else they added to the Bard besides that in Heavensward was pure gold. I don't know what they can do to the White Mage to fix them properly without Square-Enix stepping on their precious view of "Pure Healer" because the game doesn't seem design around the need to constantly​ heal a party member so it's seems to me like this is a conflict between game design and developer philosophy/interest.
This is actually the whole reason why I didn't pick up a Healer until Astrologian came along because White​ Mage seemed like just that a pure healer and that didn't sound fun. I was interested in picking up a Scholar/Summoner but controlling the Pet with a Controller on PS3/PS4 seemed like a nightmare so I didn't bother with the Job.
Than Astrologian came along and said "Hey! I can heal the party AND frequently provide buffs to the party with my Cards so wants in?" and I said "Sign me up!".
My sympathy goes out to you White Mages hopefully thing will get better for you guys sooner than later and don't get stuck in an undesirable situation like Bards did for 15 months.
What The Fox
Neo Member
Although I now play on pc, I originally played on ps4 with a controller and there's a lot of little tricks you can use to navigate the UI more easily. I wouldn't worry too much about it. If you have any specific questions though, let us know. They did a fantastic job with controller support in the game.
This is pretty doable. You get a good amount of experience from the story quests, class quests, and mandatory dungeons. You can go from story quest to story quest without much grinding in between, at least for a while. You may have to do a side quest every now and then, but they're pretty short and easy.
I believe you rolled gladiator. Very gamepad friendly. It's a high-defense tank job, and definitely easy to solo with. If you ever do want to switch, I believe you unlock that at level 15, and can have all classes on a single character
That's a harder question. My initial thought is that you can't see everything the game has to offer until level cap, because there's a lot of meaty, end-game content. However, by level 35 you should have a good feel for how the game plays. You'll have done multiple (maybe 10ish) dungeons by then, and will have unlocked a job (upgraded version of a class). What will change from there as you continue to level up: you'll move from just 4-man content to 4,8,and 24-man content, the game will get harder (I think the first "difficult" encounter is in the level 40s), you'll get more skills so the game will feel faster, and some other things I'm sure I'm forgetting. You will, though, know how the game plays at its core, by level 35.
Let me know if you have any other questions! Hope you enjoy the game.
Stone Ocean
Member
To be fair Paean was utter shit for two patches.
And it's gonna be utter shit again because warriors don't get Pacified anymore.
Stone Ocean
Member
If that's what it takes for me to never have to listen to ACT saying PACIFICATION IN FIVE I'll fucking take it.
Xion_Stellar
People should stop referencing data that makes me feel uncomfortable because games get ported to platforms I don't like
Honestly speaking it wasn't until 3.5 that I remember that I had Warden's Paean and I finally got around using it but in most cases it was to self cure myself because it felt like I was in a awkward competition with the Healer to remove status effects from other party members while playing with PUGs.
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