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Final Fantasy XIV |OT| ARR: Alpha Closed. Beta mid-Feb

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Xux

Member
I wonder if part of the class re-balance (wait rebalance isn't a word but rebalanced is?) for ARR is to make them more open for a second job. It'd be neat if they added Job Traits to further differentiate the two Jobs from the class and each other.
 

Ravidrath

Member
I wonder if part of the class re-balance (wait rebalance isn't a word but rebalanced is?) for ARR is to make them more open for a second job. It'd be neat if they added Job Traits to further differentiate the two Jobs from the class and each other.

Whatever they do, I hope the effects of the traits is more pronounced than they were in 1.0, and the stat differences are more pronounced.

The +10 to a stat when changing to a job in 1.0 was not enough, and other stats should've been lowered, too. And any trait that enhances the effectiveness of something should have, like... a minimum threshold of 25% improvement, to keep things from getting mushy.
 

Jinko

Member
I would like to see them add the traits to weapons or simply something like sword with high parry/block for tanking and swords with high damage for DPSing, same for axes etc.

I want to see more customisation through equipment and better itemisation. (materia really is shit :p)
 

omlet

Member
Whatever they do, I hope the effects of the traits is more pronounced than they were in 1.0, and the stat differences are more pronounced.

The +10 to a stat when changing to a job in 1.0 was not enough, and other stats should've been lowered, too. And any trait that enhances the effectiveness of something should have, like... a minimum threshold of 25% improvement, to keep things from getting mushy.

Totally. I would really like to see more pronounced stat tradeoffs for jobs. The +10 stat gains from 1.x were pretty pointless unless your gear was good enough for that +10 to push you to or past your cap, and likewise loss of Y stat never felt like any real sacrifice.

As for job traits, some of them were pretty effective. Things like AoE Flash for GLD, adding Shell effect to Protect for CON (on that note, lol at everyone who got butthurt about Shell being taken out), and other traits that actually changed how abilities worked rather than just adding a small number boost to some secondary stat.

I'm definitely okay with a more rigid set of traits vs the endlessly spinning hamster wheel of WoW-style talent trees, and overall I think that 1.x traits were "balanced" for what they did considering other variables, but most of them sure were forgettable.

I would like to see them add the traits to weapons or simply something like sword with high parry/block for tanking and swords with high damage for DPSing, same for axes etc.

Well, they already did this somewhat, at least for swords. Melded skirmish weapons made great tanking weapons like you mention (axe and sword). Garuda sword has tanky stats on it (however, unfortunately, it's ass because accuracy is so important for PLD, which is why Curtana was such a fantastic weapon for 1.x PLDs). PLD can force so many blocks with skills that a PLD who goes out of their way to gear for block rate at the expense of other important PLD stats is most definitely doing it wrong. I make no claims to being the best or most knowledgeable PLD around, but I tanked enough Garuda and Darnus to feel pretty confident about judging the worth of certain tanking stats. On that note, as a personal gripe tangent, PLD in 1.x really got the short end of the stick in many ways because more than any other job in the game it needs high quantities of many stats to be effective, not just its primary potency stats (such as INT for BLM or PIE for BRD, etc.).

I want to see more customisation through equipment and better itemisation. (materia really is shit :p)

As frustrating as the materia system is, I think the real root of the problem is how stats work to begin with, not so much materia. Well, that and the fact that the materia system in general was a bandaid to a problem that should have been super obvious from the start (that to level to 50 a single crafter basically had to make enough items to supply the entire server with gear).

Overall gear itemization in 1.x was also the victim of... I'm not sure how to describe it succinctly. On one hand, content was well balanced around the gear available at the time, including the leveling grind. However, because of how stats worked, it wasn't until materia was introduced that you really noticed much difference in performance from non-weapon gear. In general, crafted gear has such low primary stat boosts you might as well be naked.

1.x also seemed to have adopted the XI idea of adding lots of gear that was either completely pointless, or so pointless in most cases that the times it would be useful you either forget you have it or you... only in this game you couldn't macro gearswap (thank God), making said item in XIV, well, pretty pointless.

Anyway, back to the issue at hand, that being customization, I think YoshiP has expressed a desire to do just that. Because of how stat caps worked in 1.x, there was often no incentive at all to gear for anything besides your primary stats until you hit cap (there were some exceptions)... and unless you had gear like Darklight, simply getting to those caps probably meant you didn't have room for anything else. The issue has been talked about a lot, and while it remains to be seen how ARR handles it, we at least seem to have gotten some acknowledgement from the team that they want to address it.

I'm not a big fan of the materia system in general, but since it doesn't appear to be going anywhere in ARR, I hope it, and the underlying stat system, are changed to make some customization a bit more feasible. Never mind the fact that the way jobs had two "primary" stats may change in 2.0, my impression (and hope) for materia in ARR is that it will work something more like this (with a little help from Professor Rein):

allocation1x.jpg

But I guess we'll just have to wait and see. To me, gear as a means of real, viable alternate specs is kind of a pipe dream as far as this game goes. Not saying the mold couldn't be broken, but the mold is such that you generally need something outside of just gear to really give meaningful customization (such as talent trees). Otherwise, all that "customization" really just boils down to min-maxing the role in which the job serves, and generally, I personally have very little patience for people with snowflake builds that don't have math to back them up. This is the same reason why I think the limited stat allocation that 1.x had was just really retarded and pointless. There was literally nothing to think about for any job besides PLD; just pump your primary stats for best performance. There is some wiggle room when it comes to things like picking a few points of crit over a few points of STR, for example, but if your goal is to perform well in the game there are always clearly bad and clearly good choices on how to gear/stat your character... and if your goal isn't to perform well in the game, then frankly I don't want you in my party. :p

Edit: Another thought to add that I was kind of driving in general but since no one really brought it up specifically, I didn't really specifically talk about... To me, XIV doesn't need widely diverging specs for its classes (like how WoW does with some of them), because your character already has the ability to be a widely diverging spec in the form of another class. Further customization may come with additional jobs built on class foundations, but IMO jobs themselves don't really need another layer of talent-like customization, or even any more of a layer of gear spec'ing than was already present in 1.x. Using PLD as an example, it's a tank first and foremost. I don't need a DD spec for my PLD, because if I want to DD I have other jobs that can do it better. At most, I might (and did, actually) swap a piece of gear here and there (depending on the particular content) to gain a few points of damage, but I was doing that because damage helps me hold hate, not because damage is what my goal is as PLD. One of the strengths of XIV (and XI) is that ability to customize your character that much--far more than your character in a game like WoW. The focus is on developing and customizing your character not on your class.
 

Jinko

Member
Edit: Another thought to add that I was kind of driving in general but since no one really brought it up specifically, I didn't really specifically talk about... To me, XIV doesn't need widely diverging specs for its classes (like how WoW does with some of them), because your character already has the ability to be a widely diverging spec in the form of another class. Further customization may come with additional jobs built on class foundations, but IMO jobs themselves don't really need another layer of talent-like customization, or even any more of a layer of gear spec'ing than was already present in 1.x. Using PLD as an example, it's a tank first and foremost. I don't need a DD spec for my PLD, because if I want to DD I have other jobs that can do it better. At most, I might (and did, actually) swap a piece of gear here and there (depending on the particular content) to gain a few points of damage, but I was doing that because damage helps me hold hate, not because damage is what my goal is as PLD. One of the strengths of XIV (and XI) is that ability to customize your character that much--far more than your character in a game like WoW. The focus is on developing and customizing your character not on your class.

True, I just hope one day we will get a way to make GLD a viable DD, tanking is so boring for me, but would love to fight with dual swords, daggers or katana's.

You are right about materia in that the only reason its not very good is because of the stat system, I really hope they sort this out, but looking at ARR the stats are as super inflated as they were in 1.0, although I did notice a massive DPS difference when switching out to the newest weapon, if gear is as potent as this it would be nice :D
 

omlet

Member
True, I just hope one day we will get a way to make GLD a viable DD, tanking is so boring for me, but would love to fight with dual swords, daggers or katana's.

You are right about materia in that the only reason its not very good is because of the stat system, I really hope they sort this out, but looking at ARR the stats are as super inflated as they were in 1.0, although I did notice a massive DPS difference when switching out to the newest weapon, if gear is as potent as this it would be nice :D

I guess the other thing is that I don't really consider stats in XIV to be real customization, because how they are used by the game mechanics is very limited. Stats as a way to "customize" as in "have actual viable builds that are different" only really works if you have at minimum, I think, two things: 1) way more control over your stats than XIV gives you (think original RO) and 2) all stats need to do something useful for all classes, with proper scaling, which was simply not the case in 1.x where classes had 2 primary stats to focus on, and more importantly none of the primary stats had any potent secondary benefits that couldn't otherwise be specifically obtained in more tangible quantities elsewhere when needed.

Inflated or not, the fact that the game automatically determines many of your base stats in a way you have no control over means stats as a medium for customization in XIV is a bankrupt concept to begin with. Because of skill distribution, stats will never allow you to become something your class/job is not meant, at least on some level, to be. For example, it doesn't matter how much VIT and HP I gear up with on DRG, I won't make a good tank. Furthermore, stats as a way to make certain skill builds (again, think RO) viable simply doesn't exist in FF. Your character's stats either make your skills effective enough to win, or they don't.

I don't really think this is going to change in ARR, even if they do what I described in my diagram. For example, with lower stat caps you may have more utilization of gear (lower stat caps makes more "weaker" gear "more" useful, relatively) and materia (rather than only stacking 1 or 2 stats), but even then you will still need the same stats as any other character on the same job as you. Stats do not change the way you approach the gameplay in a game like XIV, though in some cases they may change a detail here or there about how you actually tackle an encounter (basically going back to the "stats are mainly a margin-of-allowable-error determinant" idea).

On the GLD thing, I think the solution there is simply to add a sword-based DD class totally different from GLD (NIN/THF/FNC/etc.). Or maybe a DD job to go on top of the GLD class (mystic knight maybe, or whatever), but I don't want to see GLD or PLD made into a viable DD. Ever. I don't think the answer is to change what's there, but to expand on it (a DD job for GLD that forgoes the shield for an offhand weapon), or add new things to fill in the gaps (a new class that uses swords/daggers with a totally different skillset from which to build new jobs on). The trick is that the armory system is more restrictive than XI's job system since it is based on your equipped weapon--a limitation that I really think is going to only get more problematic as time goes by. Perhaps a good compromise (actually, something I wish they had done to begin with) is give jobs more like 10 distinct skills instead of 5... because I dunno if 5 skills is really enough to turn a GLD-based job into something distinctly non-GLDish; however, I think that a mixture of 10 unique JA/WS/spells would probably work both to make the current jobs feel even more jobby and less classy and as a result would make multiple jobs based on a single class easier to distinguish not only from their base class but from other jobs derived from that same class. Is this making any sense? XD
 

Xux

Member
I wish putting on a bunch of Accuracy+ gear wasn't a thing that people had to do. The whole attack and accuracy stats being curved based on the player's level relative to the enemies is pretty stupid as well...if that was carried over from FFXI. I can see it as a deterrent to people being able to fight monsters ten levels higher than them just 'cause they have quintuple melded gear at level 10. But, sitting at the level cap, I'd rather there not be anything that's not a randomly placed level 99 whatever to keep you out of unfinished area or an exceptional case (like a Cactuar HNM) that you can't hit with a "normal" level of accuracy with a "naked" character.

Not that I'm expert on endgame gearing and stats and what not but just missing over and over for no other reason than not specializing in accuracy is annoying.
 

Jinko

Member
I wish putting on a bunch of Accuracy+ gear wasn't a thing that people had to do. The whole attack and accuracy stats being curved based on the player's level relative to the enemies is pretty stupid as well...if that was carried over from FFXI. I can see it as a deterrent to people being able to fight monsters ten levels higher than them just 'cause they have quintuple melded gear at level 10. But, sitting at the level cap, I'd rather there not be anything that's not a randomly placed level 99 whatever to keep you out of unfinished area or an exceptional case (like a Cactuar HNM) that you can't hit with a "normal" level of accuracy with a "naked" character.

Not that I'm expert on endgame gearing and stats and what not but just missing over and over for no other reason than not specializing in accuracy is annoying.

Yea I duno why SE insist on hard caps anyway, its kind of a lazy way to balance gear.

I really like how WoW's stat system works, you know what hit rating you need for end game and you can have a mage with a crit build or a spellpower build. (or a mana regen build for long fights, this was what I meant by customisation from gear)

I'd like to see more + refresh gear in ARR, would be good to have a choice between healing/vit and healing/refresh.

Agree with the stupidly hard mobs in 1.0, what ARR is doing seems to be much better with set zones of levelled mobs.
 

omlet

Member
I wish putting on a bunch of Accuracy+ gear wasn't a thing that people had to do. The whole attack and accuracy stats being curved based on the player's level relative to the enemies is pretty stupid as well...if that was carried over from FFXI. I can see it as a deterrent to people being able to fight monsters ten levels higher than them just 'cause they have quintuple melded gear at level 10. But, sitting at the level cap, I'd rather there not be anything that's not a randomly placed level 99 whatever to keep you out of unfinished area or an exceptional case (like a Cactuar HNM) that you can't hit with a "normal" level of accuracy with a "naked" character.

Not that I'm expert on endgame gearing and stats and what not but just missing over and over for no other reason than not specializing in accuracy is annoying.

I kind of have mixed feelings about accuracy stat in XIV, I guess. Its importance in XI was overwhelming. I'd kind of find it an annoying stat, too, despite the fact that accuracy stat was both less important and easier to gear for in XIV than in XI. Honestly, in 1.x, accuracy stat was balanced much more like in WoW than like in XI. Hit rate cap was 100% for a long time, and even after they adjusted stats, it was still something like 98% or 99%, and your naked base hitrates were already a lot higher than in XI.

You didn't have to go out of your way to gear for accuracy for thing like leveling, doing levels, etc. even against normal mobs that were several levels higher than you; though you would probably miss a few times, the general pace of battle made missing normal attacks not a huge deal for things like this. What was killer, and what made accuracy so important, was, as in XI, having weaponskills miss. Nothing hurt your DPS in 1.x as much as missing a WS early in your combo and not being able to do the whole combo for damage.

For bosses and stuff, you did need certain levels of accuracy. Garuda especially had super high evasion, so both mages and melee needed to gear for accuracy and/or get buffs from food and bards.

As for the level 99s and stuff, the thing was you actually kind of could hit them, but they'd clobber you so hard it didn't really matter thanks to how dLVL affected damage calculations. That doesn't make their placement around the 1.x world any less dumb, though.
 

Jijidasu

Member
Hey Munba, I seen your reply in the artwork thread on the OF. Where did you find those concept art pages? I've never seen them before. :eek: I'd like to grab a copy of whatever it is it came from.
 

Xux

Member
Yea I duno why SE insist on hard caps anyway, its kind of a lazy way to balance gear.

I really like how WoW's stat system works, you know what hit rating you need for end game and you can have a mage with a crit build or a spellpower build. (or a mana regen build for long fights, this was what I meant by customisation from gear)

I'd like to see more + refresh gear in ARR, would be good to have a choice between healing/vit and healing/refresh.

Agree with the stupidly hard mobs in 1.0, what ARR is doing seems to be much better with set zones of levelled mobs.
Yeah, it seems like between cross class gear and levels 1-49 balance is just kind of a mess. It's hard to have lateral options with constant escalation. It'd be neat if they did something totally wacky and made gear more specialized as you leveled up but made every piece more or less balanced with each other.

I kind of have mixed feelings about accuracy stat in XIV, I guess. Its importance in XI was overwhelming. I'd kind of find it an annoying stat, too, despite the fact that accuracy stat was both less important and easier to gear for in XIV than in XI. Honestly, in 1.x, accuracy stat was balanced much more like in WoW than like in XI. Hit rate cap was 100% for a long time, and even after they adjusted stats, it was still something like 98% or 99%, and your naked base hitrates were already a lot higher than in XI.

You didn't have to go out of your way to gear for accuracy for thing like leveling, doing levels, etc. even against normal mobs that were several levels higher than you; though you would probably miss a few times, the general pace of battle made missing normal attacks not a huge deal for things like this. What was killer, and what made accuracy so important, was, as in XI, having weaponskills miss. Nothing hurt your DPS in 1.x as much as missing a WS early in your combo and not being able to do the whole combo for damage.

For bosses and stuff, you did need certain levels of accuracy. Garuda especially had super high evasion, so both mages and melee needed to gear for accuracy and/or get buffs from food and bards.

As for the level 99s and stuff, the thing was you actually kind of could hit them, but they'd clobber you so hard it didn't really matter thanks to how dLVL affected damage calculations. That doesn't make their placement around the 1.x world any less dumb, though.
Oh okay. Most of that rant was based on FFXI but I did notice I was missing a lot in the few endgame-ish stuff I did like the final WAR quest. The whole concept of dLVL just annoys me, though, a lot of that was the FFXI communities insistence that they could only level up against IT++s. Just making a boss monster hard because of its level is kinda lame, though; why not just, ya know, give it better stats? The whole point of the Primals is that they're really strong; I'm sure it'd make sense for Ifrit to be able to take on eight fighters at an equal level of "experience".

The issue with missing the first hit of a combo reminded me of probably the only thing I thought was actually made worse about the Alpha which was that WSs that you combo into are worthless outside of a combo.

And what was the point of those 90+ passive Goblins in Black Shroud? There were 30+ Goblins elsewhere so it wasn't, like, a "preview" or anything.

Hey Munba, I seen your reply in the artwork thread on the OF. Where did you find those concept art pages? I've never seen them before. :eek: I'd like to grab a copy of whatever it is it came from.

From the 'Eorzea Famitsu' (a special edition magazine), i bought it in summer 2011. Dunno if it's still around to buy :/

edit-
here: http://ebten.jp/p/9784047274310/
What is that first castle-ish area supposed to be? That shot with the Sultana and what's probably supposed to be the Syndicate is pretty cool.

Also, why'd they have to make Eorzean script so hard to read?
 
Man.

I'm still wondering just WTF actually happened. How did we get from here (the end of the world) to there (everything's A-OK and hunky-dory!)? I'm so confused!
 

Xux

Member
Man.

I'm still wondering just WTF actually happened. How did we get from here (the end of the world) to there (everything's A-OK and hunky-dory!)? I'm so confused!
Louisoix teleported all of the adventurers five years in the future. I guess the game itself is gonna tell what happened in between; good the thing the game's story revolves around the player being able to see people's memories, lol.
 

Darryl

Banned
the guys chocobo looks similar to what the legacy concept art was

RHjOc.jpg


it looks similar to how i used to remember them being anyways though so no idea, it would be a fitting place to show them off tho
 

Cetra

Member
Here's hoping with get a Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn OST faster than we got the 1.0 OST. I need maor FF tunes!

Loving the intro. I'm thinking my first week or two of 2.0 play is going to be just pure exploration. Every nook and cranny of every zone. Looks so good.
 

Gromph

This tag is currently undergoing scheduled maintenance...
Staff Member
Amazing intro..

The best is I will hope listen to Answers and Memoro de la Ŝtono this Saturday.

Beside to meet Nobuo Uematsu and Susan Calloway... what a new year fresh start! :)


I'm ready!

PS: Anyone from GAF going too?
 
Amazing intro..

The best is I will hope listen to Answers and Memoro de la Ŝtono this Saturday.

Beside to meet Nobuo Uematsu and Susan Calloway... what a new year fresh start! :)


I'm ready!

PS: Anyone from GAF going too?

My fiance got me tickets for my birthday and we went last year. Uematsu was there and it was so fucking awesome. It was amazing to hear all those tracks orchestrated live and to see Uematsu perform. Unfortunately, she did not spring for the VIP tickets so I didn't get to have dinner with him and get tons of autographs but he sat only a couple of rows in front of me. He was dressed like a monk and wearing a bandanna. He seemed like a really cool and laid back guy.
 

Stuart444

Member
Amazing intro..

The best is I will hope listen to Answers and Memoro de la Ŝtono this Saturday.

Beside to meet Nobuo Uematsu and Susan Calloway... what a new year fresh start! :)

I went to Distant Worlds (with Susan and Masashi making an apperance including the latter singing in One Winged Angel with the choir :) ) in Edinburgh a few months back and it was fantastic. Didn't have enough for VIP but it was still glorious.

Hope you and anyone else going have fun :)
 

ZiZ

Member
Looking at the ffxiv arr trailer thread were going to have s crazy gaf dot ls

I'm more concerned about the free company.
How many members can we have?
I hope we don't end up having to disband it every couple of months because we can't kick out the members that left.

In 1.0 I didn't play much and was casually going along.
In ARR I'm hoping to go all out. first thing I'll probably do is max out a few DoH and DoL jobs.
 

Nakazato

Member
I'm more concerned about the free company.
How many members can we have?
I hope we don't end up having to disband it every couple of months because we can't kick out the members that left.

In 1.0 I didn't play much and was casually going along.
In ARR I'm hoping to go all out. first thing I'll probably do is max out a few DoH and DoL jobs.
I think ravi will allow us in but the the newer ppl will have to prove they are going to stay.
 

Ravidrath

Member
I'm more concerned about the free company.
How many members can we have?
I hope we don't end up having to disband it every couple of months because we can't kick out the members that left.

In 1.0 I didn't play much and was casually going along.
In ARR I'm hoping to go all out. first thing I'll probably do is max out a few DoH and DoL jobs.

That's why we have the Red Dot / Red Dot Zero / NeoBELIEVE split - only Red Dot people will be the ones that go into the Free Company.

Naturally, as people prove themselves in NeoBELIEVE and Red Dot Zero and hit 50, they'll be given access to Red Dot and the Free Company.


They wouldn't let you kick out offline people out of linkshells? That is kind of ridiculous.

Yup, it was a colossal hassle.

When we tried to have one LS for everyone, we were remaking it every two weeks to shed dead weight. That's why we split the LS into Red Dot, Red Dot Zero and NeoBELIEVE.
 

omlet

Member
I'm more concerned about the free company.
How many members can we have?
I hope we don't end up having to disband it every couple of months because we can't kick out the members that left.
Fear not, contingency planning is already underway! (Pending LS/FC info from later beta phases, mind you.)

That's why we have the Red Dot / Red Dot Zero / NeoBELIEVE split - only Red Dot people will be the ones that go into the Free Company.

Naturally, as people prove themselves in NeoBELIEVE and Red Dot Zero and hit 50, they'll be given access to Red Dot and the Free Company.
*poke* look at the RD forums, Ravi.

They wouldn't let you kick out offline people out of linkshells? That is kind of ridiculous.
Yeah, they promised better management in ARR. Here's hoping.
 

Xux

Member
Didn't they say somewhere that Free Companies could have over a hundred members?

Also, sorry for flaking guyz :( :( :(. Of course, if I got on so you could kick me, I probably would've been on for hours and then hours the next day etc., lol.

Why did I stop playing again? I feel pretty hyped for ARR and remember enjoying the original quite a bit.
 

Jinko

Member
BTW, have they said anything about how much of the world will be in the beta?

I'm expecting phase one to just be Grid/black shroud but with level 30 cap and more stuff, if you remember in 1.0 beta they had temporary NPC's for class guildmasters.
 
I'm sure a fair amount of it will get reused. In 1.x a lot of that music was essentially being wasted IMO; hopefully it'll get set to content that's more fitting.
 

omlet

Member
I'm sure a fair amount of it will get reused. In 1.x a lot of that music was essentially being wasted IMO; hopefully it'll get set to content that's more fitting.

You say that like we didn't run Totorak a hundred times for that oh-so-good alternate battle music.
 

Hasemo

(;・∀・)ハッ?
Could anyone tell me what's the cheapest place to get an European XIV code right now? Amazon wants 20 pounds for the game?
 
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