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[Ravidrath]

Oh wow - I got Alchemy to Rank 10, and Preserve is pretty amazing... I have a hard time believing any of the other crafting abilities could be better.

It instantly stabilizes any state (i.e. makes red turn white), and then holds it at white for two more turns. The way crafting works now, this gives you a huge advantage, I think.

Also, just beat the Gridania Rank 15 story quest - pretty awesome stuff, but from the look of things, we need to wait until the next big update for any main story past Rank 20's? :\

 

[Kinitari]

Okay, just bought the game and made a character on Lindblum. Any other new people wanna play? I don't really know too much yet.

Character name: Erix Cronos

What? Lindblum character creation is back up?!

Edit: Thank you Chrono! Would never have realized without you . Huzzah, and I only lost like... 2 hours of gameplay in the process.

 

[Torquill]

duh, that is why I said, Oh I never cared to notice the items all over the place. Because Its not a big issue to me compared to other things that need fixing. Like for starters its a pain to chat.

FFXI doesn't run on crystal tools. I would assume there is more than just copy and paste needed to be done to fix this problem.

The graphics engine being used doesn't (shouldn't) have any bearing on something like inventory sorting. That said, the backend database design and systems for handling items are still likely different than xi's. Tho really it's not complicated feat of programming. There may be technical specifics that make it tricky (tho I can't think of anything that would make inventory sorting tricky) it's something an entry level programmer, with a little oversight, could take care of.

FAKE EDIT: I mean, you may need some type of category designator in the database so the server knows how to sort, bi that adds minimal extra storage overhead as the num of items in te game will always signofianclty dwarf the number of characters being stored.

 

[Londa]

The graphics engine being used doesn't (shouldn't) have any bearing on something like inventory sorting. That said, the backend database design and systems for handling items are still likely different than xi's. Tho really it's not complicated feat of programming. There may be technical specifics that make it tricky (tho I can't think of anything that would make inventory sorting tricky) it's something an entry level programmer, with a little oversight, could take care of.

FAKE EDIT: I mean, you may need some type of category designator in the database so the server knows how to sort, bi that adds minimal extra storage overhead as the num of items in te game will always signofianclty dwarf the number of characters being stored.

What you can do in X you may not be able to do in Y. No one knows how crystal tools work. So how can we say copy and paste is all that needs to be done here.

 

[demosthenes]

What you can do in X you may not be able to do in Y. No one knows how crystal tools work. So how can we say copy and paste is all that needs to be done here.

Crystal Tools is the graphics engine. Correct me if I'm wrong but that should have little to do with the code to sort something.

 

[Kinitari]

Regardless of whether or not the process is a straight copy and paste, there are definitely some processes that need to start happening. I'm keeping an open mind here, and a part of me appreciates the unique UI - but most of me just really hates how clunky it can be, even after I get used to it. There are a million and one suggestions to improving the UI and I just hope that SE isn't going to be prideful and ignore them all.

I think what would help a LOT of people is if they just flat out said "We hear you guys, and we are looking to improve/modify X, Y, Z" - tell us if you are working on an Auction house, or whatever.

 

[Amneisac]

It takes me 6 to 7 seconds on average to switch an item from my retainer to my inventory. Yes, 6 to 7 seconds PER ITEM. That is indefensible, guys. Of course they need to add sorting, but that won't even scratch the surface of UI problems this game has going for it.

 

[Torquill]

What you can do in X you may not be able to do in Y. No one knows how crystal tools work. So how can we say copy and paste is all that needs to be done here.

It's def nit as simple as copy paste, but the differences have to so with their data design, not with their rendering engine. I'm kind of being a little bit of a smarty pants here. My apologies for that.

 

[Torquill]

Regardless of whether or not the process is a straight copy and paste, there are definitely some processes that need to start happening. I'm keeping an open mind here, and a part of me appreciates the unique UI - but most of me just really hates how clunky it can be, even after I get used to it. There are a million and one suggestions to improving the UI and I just hope that SE isn't going to be prideful and ignore them all.

I think what would help a LOT of people is if they just flat out said "We hear you guys, and we are looking to improve/modify X, Y, Z" - tell us if you are working on an Auction house, or whatever.

Communication is one of their bigger PR problems rihght now. I can understand the language barrier making it mote difficult for player to dev comm due to volume, but you are correct, dev to player comm doesn't have that excuse and they would be well served o be more open. Gogo cultural differences.

 

[Londa]

It's def nit as simple as copy paste, but the differences have to so with their data design, not with their rendering engine. I'm kind of being a little bit of a smarty pants here. My apologies for that.

Well I am not going to say anything about how game designing is done. I study and do graphic design. From my experience with graphic design, when a newer version of a program comes out, you can't simply open old files or copy and paste and get the same result that you would get in the older version you use to work in.

I'm planning to start learning webdesign, but again, that isn't game design. So I won't I know how its really done, when coding games.

Honest question:
Even if its a new graphic's engine, doesn't code have to sometimes be created or written a different way depending on what tools/engine you are using to create the game?

 

[demosthenes]

Well I am not going to say anything about how game designing is done. I study and do graphic design. From my experience with graphic design, when a newer version of a program comes out, you can't simply open old files or copy and paste and get the same result that you would get in the older version you use to work in.

I'm planning to start learning webdesign, but again, that isn't game design. So I won't I know how its really done, when coding games.

Honest question:
Even if its a new graphic's engine, doesn't code have to sometimes be created or written a different way depending on what tools/engine you are using to create the game?

If it's the case that "sorted inventory" can't be done in XIV b/c of the system they've implemented then it's an extremely shitty design flaw, one that should have been corrected a long time ago. You don't design a system and see what you can put it. You should see what you want to put in and design a system around that.

 

[RocketDarkness]

If you manage to design and implement an inventory system that can't be sorted by any of the myriad of quick, efficient, well-documented sorting algorithms already in existence, you probably should find a new job because you are the Worst Programmer Ever.

 

[Zalasta]

Even I have to say that the forests around Gridania just wasn't conceived well. I hate the run to Emerald Moss, cut the length by half and it wouldn't be such a pain. There are way too much nothingness on that path that I don't really understand why it has to be so long.

 

[Coldsnap]

It takes me 6 to 7 seconds on average to switch an item from my retainer to my inventory. Yes, 6 to 7 seconds PER ITEM. That is indefensible, guys. Of course they need to add sorting, but that won't even scratch the surface of UI problems this game has going for it.

dude i agree, it takes me 15 mins to npc the junk i get while questing. Also takes like 5 mins to do a synthesis.

 

[Teknoman]

Hey, interesting... an update tomorrow night.

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/news/detail?newsId=73897736da2aaae9e8b8c365081ab55cb51ac081

Hopefully they'll address more than the Market Ward renaming.

Was there an actual update or just maintenance?

 

[Salaadin]

Was there an actual update or just maintenance?

11:00 PDT 10/7 to 3:00 PDT 10/8 so it hasnt happened yet. Im hoping theres a nice update to go with it that fixes some shit.

Thats 2am EDT to 6am EDT btw.

 

[Londa]

Even I have to say that the forests around Gridania just wasn't conceived well. I hate the run to Emerald Moss, cut the length by half and it wouldn't be such a pain. There are way too much nothingness on that path that I don't really understand why it has to be so long.

Its because its a maze.

 

[FieryBalrog]

Designwise, this game is a critical failure on every level. It has redeeming features, but now I'm not sure how many of them actually come from the game itself, as opposed to the natural community aspect that comes from human interaction.

Or the attraction that comes from having chocobos in a game.

As far as I can tell, at the moment the game is pretty much running on the Final Fantasy name alone.

 

[Kinitari]

Alright, I have the rest of the day to myself! Time to start getting acquainted with the game. Kin Itari on Lindblum, in Gridania - if anyone wants to give me money or whatever.

I'll take money.

 

[demosthenes]

Alright, I have the rest of the day to myself! Time to start getting acquainted with the game. Kin Itari on Lindblum, in Gridania - if anyone wants to give me money or whatever.

I'll take money.

Start Disciple of war or magic. Go do the story quest, do some leves, make money buy a crafting tool and make more money.

 

[Kinitari]

Start Disciple of war or magic. Go do the story quest, do some leves, make money buy a crafting tool and make more money.

I started disciples of hand - trying to kill things by doing 1 damage seems like a bad way to start off - I guess I'll pick up a spear or something when I start doing leves.

 

[Coldsnap]

All I do is grind in this game, Im not sure how much longer I want to play this...

 

[demosthenes]

All I do is grind in this game, Im not sure how much longer I want to play this...

Isn't every part of a MMO essentially a grind?

 

[Coldsnap]

Isn't every part of a MMO essentially a grind?

yea but there has been zero payoff so far, I'm tired of making Beaderon shoes and cooking him breakfast every 36 hours.

 

[Torquill]

Well I am not going to say anything about how game designing is done. I study and do graphic design. From my experience with graphic design, when a newer version of a program comes out, you can't simply open old files or copy and paste and get the same result that you would get in the older version you use to work in.

I'm planning to start learning webdesign, but again, that isn't game design. So I won't I know how its really done, when coding games.

Honest question:
Even if its a new graphic's engine, doesn't code have to sometimes be created or written a different way depending on what tools/engine you are using to create the game?

A general philosophy in software development is to reduce interdependencies to increase reusability.

For example, FFXI and FFXIV both have databases sitting somewhere. Those databases have a list of every item in the game. Part of that list are details about the item, stats, name, etc. Somewhere else there is a list of player characters. Part of that list is what items each character has and possibly some kind of information has to how those items are organized for that character. This is, in general, the case for both xi and xiv, tho the details of his that data is stored may vary significantly, thus it's not a matter f cutting and pasting.

Now notice I didn't say anything about how the item information is displayed to the user. That system is just handlig the data, it doesn't care how it's shown to players. One system may take that information and show it one way, while another system may show it another way.

My understandig is that Crystal Tools is primarilly a graphics toolset for effects and such. So it, shouldn't really play a role in how the data is organized.

Crystal tools would ask the database what item and what order they were in and then take that information and display it however it wants too.

 

[Torquill]

Isn't every part of a MMO essentially a grind?

Less and less. Grind usually refers to having to repeat content you've already done to progress. Camping for mobs you've already killed 1000 times is on example. Repeating quests you've already done is another.

To use a single player example, going thru a dungeon is not grinding. Sitting on one floor killing monsters is. Randomized content done poorly also still tends to be grindy.

 

[demosthenes]

Less and less. Grind usually refers to having to repeat content you've already done to progress. Camping for mobs you've already killed 1000 times is on example. Repeating quests you've already done is another.

To use a single player example, going thru a dungeon is not grinding. Sitting on one floor killing monsters is. Randomized content done poorly also still tends to be grindy.

What MMOs don't you have to do this to get to max level?

 

[Coldsnap]

You're being really deductive. Yes, most MMOs are essentially a grind if you break it all down but through good game design you can make the grind not seem like a constant blow to the head.

 

[Torquill]

What MMOs don't you have to do this to get to max level?

WoW, tho not at launch if I recall correctly

 

[notworksafe]

What MMOs don't you have to do this to get to max level?

WoW, LotRO, WAR (to a certain extent since PvP is always different), Global Agenda. More that I'm not thinking of, I'm sure.

 

[demosthenes]

WoW, LotRO, WAR (to a certain extent since PvP is always different), Global Agenda. More that I'm not thinking of, I'm sure.

My friend still fights in WoW and does quests and kills stuff when he makes new characters, I consider that grinding. What about LotRO and WAR though, how you progress?

 

[Coldsnap]

I played the LOTRO F2P for a bit and I leveled to 20 just doing the main quest and some side quest, the main quest is set up like a single player game essentially. No grinding, a lot of story plots.

Wow has always had zero grinding until endgame dungeons.

 

[Pejo]

No, as in why is my equipment scattered all over the place. I want my weapons on the top followed by equipment followed by random supplies.

I have:

weapon
weapon
equipment
supplies
supplies
equipment
weapon
tool
tool
equipment
supplies

This drives me insane.

Not to bring up an old topic, but this really messes with my OCD. I actually transferred everything to retainer once, then transferred it back to inventory in the order i wanted it just so that I could "sort" it that way. Now that I've upgraded equipment it's all messed up again and i'm not sure that the 45 minutes it would take with the UI lag is worth it.

Also I hate the fact that if I use 4 copper ore from a stack of 12, and there is a stack of 3 somewhere else in my inventory, it does not auto-stack itself. The only way i've found to get them to re-stack is to dump them both back to retainer and back to inventory, which again, even though it should be fast and easy, takes upwards of 3 minutes.

Overall when I am "playing" the game I'm having fun, but waiting for UI lag and navigating menus are driving me to quit.

 

[notworksafe]

My friend still fights in WoW and does quests and kills stuff when he makes new characters, I consider that grinding. What about LotRO and WAR though, how you progress?

Really? He does the same eight quests every 36 hours? Interesting way to play. You consider killing anything ever a grind? You consider doing any quest ever a grind? Perhaps you need to tak a new look at how grinding can be obscured through varied content.

In my opinion something becomes a grind when it is overly repetitive. In games like WoW/LotRO/WAR you can do various things to gain XP and keep changing them.

In WoW the quests are stuff like flying on birds/bats dropping bombs on dudes, going into the spirit world to explore the land in a different way, or jousting in a tournament for your city's honor. Plus if I get bored of questing I'll pop open the Dungeon Finder and do a few instanced dungeons with friends, or maybe I'll hop into some PvP battlegrounds.

In LotRO there is an "Epic" questline (yes, that's what it's actually called) that follows you as you level through the game. Every level there are 2-4 quests in this storyline that have you going all over the world. Sometimes you go into dungeons, sometimes you help a city that is being attacked. Some of this is done alone, some with PC partners, some with NPC partners. All of it is voiced and has little cutscenes that explain the story as you go. Another option for leveling is to go into Skirmishes, which are instanced areas that scale from 1-12 players (in both XP and loot rewards) and everyone gets a fully talentable NPC that they can turn into any mix of a class or two and helps them out while fighting.

In WAR, it's a bit more grindy but they have a good mix of quests and PVP. There's even things call Public Quests that anyone in an area can join. These are normally PVP objectives that reward players that defend a tower or base from the other side. You can also participate in Realm vs Realm PVP which are massive battles that can be joined at various level ranges and let anyone get a good PVP experience while still getting XP.

 

[gillty]

In WAR I grinded through PVP battles.

Personally I real like how the guildleves work, the hub/spoke system does a really good job of congregating people. It's a shame xp distribution through partying sucks.

 

[notworksafe]

LotRO has changed some since F2P. I recommend going back, because it's pretty neat now.

 

[ChronoKnight]

Start Disciple of war or magic. Go do the story quest, do some leves, make money buy a crafting tool and make more money.

This is exactly what I am doing, of note, just doing the story quest and the first leve from it results in 1000 gil, 200 short of buying a crafting item. Need to do more leves :lol

Anyway I am in the Ul'dah area and will be rocking out noob leves tonight for anyone interested.

 

[demosthenes]

This is exactly what I am doing, of note, just doing the story quest and the first leve from it results in 1000 gil, 200 short of buying a crafting item. Need to do more leves :lol

Anyway I am in the Ul'dah area and will be rocking out noob leves tonight for anyone interested.

Go talk to the starting NPC again, she gives you more gil, enough to buy something to start another class.

 

[gillty]

I'm very anti Insular questing which is how I feel Western MMO's have gone over the past 5 years. I played probably a thousand hours in both WoW and EVE. I have a strong affection for how CCP and SQE force people to congregate and interact.

 

[demosthenes]

LotRO has changed some since F2P. I recommend going back, because it's pretty neat now.

If one wanted to try it, what do you even get? A quick search on Amazon shows me there are at least 2 expansions?

 

[notworksafe]

If one wanted to try it, what do you even get? A quick search on Amazon shows me there are at least 2 expansions?

You can get nothing. Just go to their site (www.lotro.com) and download the game (should be a button on the right that says "Get Started" or something like that). That will give you the main game, all but two classes, and quests up to level 25-30.

If you buy anything, I recommend Mines of Moria. That comes with the main game + first xpac, all the classes, a bunch of bonuses, quests and levels up to 60, and 30 days of the highest tier (called VIP) service. The second xpac (Siege of Mirkwood) is only high end stuff. Leveling from 60-65 and the endgame story dungeons.

EDIT: I should also mention Dungeons & Dragons Online. It's a very group oriented MMO that follows the D&D style of storytelling and grouping. It's a very neat experience and one that might appeal to the type of player that likes the idea of parties in MMOs. It's also totally free. http://www.ddo.com/

 

[TurtleSnatcher]

So I think I'm quitting FF14.

Its just feeling already really repetitive..

36 hrs.. Do leves.. wait 36 hrs.. do more leves..

In between.. grind and craft..





It just didn't grab me I think.

 

[HappyBivouac]

Why do people say "xpac"? It doesn't make any sense as an abbreviation. Not that that's directed at anyone, but it's always bugged me cause I'm an idiot who get bugged by that sort of thing. :lol

When does party playable content start showing up? I'm playing this game mostly because I was hoping it would be all about groups, which the WoW model has killed for standard play (I don't want to have to raid to get groups going).

When they add a goddamn player search function and a party seek flag. -_-

 

[notworksafe]

Why do people say "xpac"? It doesn't make any sense as an abbreviation. Not that that's directed at anyone, but it's always bugged me cause I'm an idiot who get bugged by that sort of thing. :lol

I always figured it worked for "expansion pack", but now that I think about it...doesn't make a ton of sense even then. :lol

 

[Balya]

I would've figured it was started by Sean Waltman fans... if there was such a thing.

 

[notworksafe]

I would've figured it was started by Sean Waltman fans... if there was such a thing.

:lol :lol :lol

 

[Coldsnap]

i don't mind this game being a grind... but looking at next semesters school and work semester I'm going to have very little time to play. I won't be able to play this game like I did with XI when I was in highschool.

 

[Haint]

When does party playable content start showing up? I'm playing this game mostly because I was hoping it would be all about groups, which the WoW model has killed for standard play (I don't want to have to raid to get groups going).

Later teens and 20's--grouping pretty much becomes a necessity unless you want to spend 10-20 hours, or a weeks worth of leves gaining a single rank. Unfortunately, the lack of any real search/seek feature pretty much limits it to pre-arranged Static PT's at this point. Even large LS's are a crap shoot due to wide level gaps and a propensity for crafting. It very much requires balanced PT's of Tank/Heal/Buff/DD to make acceptable SP in higher levels. The only difference from XI is 1 person can reasonably handle 2 or more roles. Party SP is also game-breakingly bugged still.

 

[Awntawn]

So I think I'm quitting FF14.

Its just feeling already really repetitive..

36 hrs.. Do leves.. wait 36 hrs.. do more leves..

In between.. grind and craft..





It just didn't grab me I think.

As opposed to what, find yellow !, find mobs, kill mobs, find yellow ?, repeat? :lol

 

[Coldsnap]

As opposed to what, find yellow !, find mobs, kill mobs, find yellow ?, repeat? :lol

You seem just as ill informed about Wow as the FFXIV haters in the review thread.