notworksafe
Member
On the previous page I posted a breakdown of how some MMOs have done a good job varying content to make it interesting. I suggest looking at that.Awntawn said:
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Final Fantasy XIV |OT| ARR: Alpha Closed. Beta mid-Feb
- Thread starter demosthenes
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How dare I pass judgment on a game after only having played it for... oh wait. I'm no WoW veteran, but I've at least played it for longer than anyone's played FFXIV yet. I don't hate the game, I'm just stating how MMOs are all repetitive at their core.Coldsnap said:
Mobs aren't part of a quest so you aren't allowed to kill them ;oKaYotiX said:
http://n4g.com/news/620992/gamespot-final-fantasy-xiv-review
Has this been posted?
I LOVE Kevins reviews on everything. He always has the exact same thoughts I do, and knows how to sum up a game perfectly both in video reviews and his written reviews.
He hit the nail on the head. I think I'm going to move on to greener pastures....now to figure out if crysta auto renews itself,etc so I don't get charged next month. :/
Has this been posted?
I LOVE Kevins reviews on everything. He always has the exact same thoughts I do, and knows how to sum up a game perfectly both in video reviews and his written reviews.
He hit the nail on the head. I think I'm going to move on to greener pastures....now to figure out if crysta auto renews itself,etc so I don't get charged next month. :/
TurtleSnatcher
Member
Oh..?Awntawn said:
Well people listed out stuff before..
But the biggest gripes for me are... what I listed above.. the laggy UI, the terrible marketward and lack of AH, the requirement of heavy heavy crafting which is pretty blah.. oh and maining a class that gets jacked in Skill Point accumulation compared to melees..
Oh and the chatting and how it kicks me out all the time, selling items is god awful, sorting of items.. oh wait no that isn't in there.. Repairing your own items for 100% durability or NPC it for only 75% Yikes. Likewise it is not a new player friendly game. Heck even experienced vets get confused at a ton of stuff due to lack of explanation
Yea I have my gripes - you may not have the same but those are mine.. and that is why I am just going to wait.. I may come back in a year or so when things get ironed out. I know its new so I'm not like bashing them. My time with the game was enjoyable at most parts, but I'm just going to wait for more content so its not as repetitive.
TurtleSnatcher
Member
Just watched that review.
Totally nailed it on the head.
Totally nailed it on the head.
zlatko said:
Ten page plus thread on it and the game here actually:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=409467
And I agree with everything he says in that except about the game having bad art direction (he says the zones are boring, which they are, but that has little to do with the art design).
Vigilant Walrus
Member
Awntawn said:
Actually Cataclysm(the next wow expansion) is redoing a lot of the world quests, which makes it interesting. lots of quests that are better written and have you do other and more fun activities.
Other than the fact that people play them on average for a gazillion times as many hours? It's impossible to hand-craft that many hours of content. You have to reuse and recycle content with enough added incentive to farm. At their core, all MMOs are like that. What WoW does better than any other MMO has seen before is add a lot of fluff and incentive to encourage and add variety for people who aren't hardcore MMO grinders.Torquill said:
Not every game has to like that, or for those people.
TurtleSnatcher
Member
Well my original argument is that FF14 currently has like 4 things that are just repeated over and over pretty much every 36 hrs..Awntawn said:
Other MMO's at least allow you to vary into a few other things..
FF14 doesn't have to be that but they could have added some more fluff or creative ways of handling what they currently have for retail. It just feels unfinished. But.. It's new so I give it that benefit so I personally think most of this will be ironed out in a year or so. It just needed some more time to bake.
TurtleSnatcher said:
Other things this game could've added:
1) Instance dungeons at level gaps that take up hours of time to complete with good drops.
2) PvP of any kind. Duels, PvP servers, places to fight each other specifically for sport like an arena.
3) More variations of what you do for leves. They all feel the god damn same. Why not have a leve where you NEED 5 other team mates...AKA group only leves. There's 6 boss like monsters in different spots, that each person can solo, but all 6 need to die close to the same time.(like a 30+ second gap) Maybe leves where someone has to be a miner and mine up a powder that is used to spawn enemies by sprinkling it in an area. How about a leve that has 4 enemies, which you pick to kill first will then buff up the next 3, and w/e order you pick will change the boss monster at the end for your 5th encounter.
I've played better MMOs, and maybe this game could have more leniancy IF the developing team hadn't already made a previous MMO. They have a game to go off of and expand upon, but completely ignored.
SquareEnix sucks.
Alex
Member
Good, modern MMOs usually have a great deal of variety and storytelling in their quest structure, let alone all of the other things you can traditionally do on the side in a large world that's setup properly.
The Cataclsym beta probably has the most powerful quest design I've seen in a game. Half of the chains I've even gotten to see so far are filled to the brim with narrative, amazing scripting and unique mechanics.
It is very silly though, focusing more on humor (such as westfall being turned into a giant CSI episode, The Day Deathwing Came, Peacebloom VS Ghouls, etc), but on the more serious side, LOTRO also does an amazing job of spinning their lore and setting up some really memorable fare. It's not as varied or nearly as mechanic heavy as modern WoW, but it's still really good once it gets kicking.
The only MMO I've played in years that focused mainly on mindless get quest, find shit, kill shit is well... Final Fantasy XIV.... which has randomly generated quests... that are on a gigantic cooldown... which just about all take place at copy/pasted camps dotted around an otherwise completely empty world....
Yeah, I'd still rather go back to the FFXI model that actually involved having fun with a competent battle engine instead of this embarrassing take on questing. Trying to defend their current leve setup is impossible. Nothing good is stemming from it.
The Cataclsym beta probably has the most powerful quest design I've seen in a game. Half of the chains I've even gotten to see so far are filled to the brim with narrative, amazing scripting and unique mechanics.
It is very silly though, focusing more on humor (such as westfall being turned into a giant CSI episode, The Day Deathwing Came, Peacebloom VS Ghouls, etc), but on the more serious side, LOTRO also does an amazing job of spinning their lore and setting up some really memorable fare. It's not as varied or nearly as mechanic heavy as modern WoW, but it's still really good once it gets kicking.
The only MMO I've played in years that focused mainly on mindless get quest, find shit, kill shit is well... Final Fantasy XIV.... which has randomly generated quests... that are on a gigantic cooldown... which just about all take place at copy/pasted camps dotted around an otherwise completely empty world....
Yeah, I'd still rather go back to the FFXI model that actually involved having fun with a competent battle engine instead of this embarrassing take on questing. Trying to defend their current leve setup is impossible. Nothing good is stemming from it.
Obviously it's unfinished and lacking a lot of fluff; no one's denying that. However, a lot of people are trying to play the game like WoW, and that's quite simply not how it's meant to be done. Statements like "SE can patch a lot of things, but they can't patch in fun" like the Gamespot review states simply shows ignorance, just like I'm trying to portray to you guys with blatantly ignorant over-generalizations about WoW.TurtleSnatcher said:
Awntawn said:
The problem stems that to patch in "fun," will take over a year.
Bottom line is this game got pushed out the door way...wayy..........waaaaaayyyy too early. They have been developing it for what, 5+ years? Odds are it was taking up too much revenue, SE said get it out or your funds will be cut a shit ton, and when they said Sept 22nd....they basically put a nail in their own coffin.
The amount of content needed to be patched into this game is going to be a LOT. We could all put up a giant list of things we'd like to see added, things that need changing etc, and for their dev team it'd take a year. Right now I'm guessing their focus is minimal tweaks coming for a patch while trying to get the PS3 version to not suck. Once the PS3 version is out THEN they can will put focus on making this beta into a game.
One difference I am happy about in XIV, is that I don't get stuck in grind parties hours and then have to hunt for a non-existant replacement.
Ordinarily, I'd be optimistic about having the unacceptable things like inv sort and AH patched in, but I have zero faith in SE after playing XI from NA release to now.
Ordinarily, I'd be optimistic about having the unacceptable things like inv sort and AH patched in, but I have zero faith in SE after playing XI from NA release to now.
There are plenty of fun things about the game right now. At rank 20, the combat system is starting to shape up and make sense in a way that is familiar to MMOs but still unique. The "archaic, horrible economy" is an opportunity to get a huge financial headstart by exploiting the market. The problem is that these things are all shrouded over a myriad of fundamental "fluff" options such as mail, AH, user-friendly GUI, etc. A lot of people are disgusted by these, and therefore are not as willing to explore what depth actually exists in the game. That's all understandable, but these are all problems that can and will be fixed in the future, so you're just robbing yourself of a potential good time if you want to write it off forever just because of its early state.zlatko said:
Awntawn said:
At least WoW is more interactive...everything you do in FFXIV (and XI, but I still love that game since it was my first MMO) locks you in some sort of mini cutscene where control of your character movement is halted...it's not fluid at all.
The little things in WoW like the interactive objects make it fun and immersive; invisible walls and rigid character animation moments are not fun and immersive.
I won't be going on after my 30 day buddy pass, but I do hope they make improvements as I'd love to jump in later. I just don't know how much you can change fundamentals of a game through patches.
edit: And WoW's quests aren't all just simply hunt and kill, they actually do mix it up.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Noooo, at least play with us for a bit first. I never see you aroundTurtleSnatcher said:So I think I'm quitting FF14.
Its just feeling already really repetitive..
36 hrs.. Do leves.. wait 36 hrs.. do more leves..
In between.. grind and craft..
It just didn't grab me I think.
RocketDarkness
Member
Not much help if combat's already bored me to tears by Rank 12, and the glitchy SP system ensures that thousands of SP I've earned are never received.Awntawn said:
This is a different game. It's a JRPG. JRPGs do this. WoW is a WRPG. Offline Final Fantasy isn't like Dragon Age either.Husker86 said:
This is true, though I've had plenty of frustrating moments in WoW trying to figure out how to traverse a mountain, wondering whether or not I'm supposed to be able to jump my way up to somewhere, only to find out I'm supposed to run around. You may have forgotten by now since it's been so long, but unexplored areas of the map were covered up in WoW.
If you haven't bothered to explore and give it enough of a chance to see the potential, you won't be coming back, period. You've already written it off unless magically everyone starts going "omg this is the best game ever now, you're an idiot to not play". That's not going to happen, even if it does turn out to be the game you wanted afterall.
Only battlecraft leves are hunt and kill. There are 3 other kinds with just as much depth that take up just as much if not more time. Craft definitely takes the longest.
You shouldn't be playing any MMO at launch if you're looking for instant gratification. The first few levels of any MMO suck even to this day, it just takes less time to get past them because they always speed up the exp gain over time after people have done it before.RocketDarkness said:
RocketDarkness
Member
Fuckin' people, wanting a working game. If the game wants to steal a full level's worth of SP you attempted to earn, then you should just shut up and take it.Awntawn said:
RocketDarkness
Member
FFXI, for a couple of years. I enjoyed the fact that not everything was handed to you on a silver platter, and the idea of requiring cooperation with other players. I quit a few months after CoP came out, out of frustration (THF couldn't get XP parties worth a damn, dying 3 times in a row costing me what felt like half a level). Shortly after they released a ton of cool stuff such as the level syncing, and I would have returned if not for the fact that A) I swore not to, and B) XIV was already announced.Awntawn said:
Beyond that, I've dabbled in a bunch of free stuff, but nothing else for quite that length of time.
I have a feeling that the reviewer most likely has an account on gaf or lurks gaf, because everything he said is what most of what I've seen repeated over and over again on these forums. Go figure.
I dislike how the reviewer goes on to tell anyone viewing his review that its not the kind of game you should be playing. Who tells someone what to play or not to play? Just state its bad by your standards and keep moving.
I dislike how the reviewer goes on to tell anyone viewing his review that its not the kind of game you should be playing. Who tells someone what to play or not to play? Just state its bad by your standards and keep moving.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
It's not just GAF that has these opinions. I like the game overall, but I still agree with many of the things he says that are bad about the game.Londa said:I have a feeling that the reviewer most likely has an account on gaf or lurks gaf, because everything he said is what most of what I've seen repeated over and over again on these forums. Go figure.
Well, 4/10 kinda implies "this game sucks", which would also imply, "therefore don't play it".Londa said:
Sorry to interrupt all the comparison talk but I have a game related question :lol
Just how important is it to have sub-job skills from other classes? Between gathering, crafting and fighting the only battle class I've raised so far is pugilist. Is it fine to continue this or should I have another battle job leveled half way (if so what is a good compliment to pug)?
Just how important is it to have sub-job skills from other classes? Between gathering, crafting and fighting the only battle class I've raised so far is pugilist. Is it fine to continue this or should I have another battle job leveled half way (if so what is a good compliment to pug)?
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
Canti said:
There are handy things you can do, I leveled Conjurer to rank 4 so now I can use Cure with my Lancer job
Thats definitely something everybody should do.And you are?CcrooK said:
They're not essential, but they help a lot and make it a lot more fun. Archer and Lancer have a good powerup ability for WS (Ferocious strike and something else for Archer which I hear is better), and Glad has Still Precision which I'm after now for Marauder 3; Marauder's abilities are all, ironically, more defensive, so I don't think you really need any of them on Pug, unless I'm missing something off the top of my head.Canti said:
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Rank 6 marauder skill Bloodbath is good (life leech), skull sunder is good too (only 500 TP).Canti said:
Rank 4 archer and lancer skills Raging Strike and Ferocity are good (atk up)
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Let me know how that works out. I was gonna try that, but Still Precision has a 90 sec cooldown (which would be 135 sec on marauder). Didn't seem worth it to me.Awntawn said:
CcrooK said:
that I will not do, but you can put me on ignore. But I guess you don't because you must want to see what I have to say. So maybe you need to shut up.
Just put this into google translate and set it on nerd speak and this is what I got:
"A lonely nerd hiding under a internet thug persona"
LowParry
Member
Awntawn said:Pleased to meet you
No really, the comment was meant to be a joke since you were mentioning WoW. I've been following the thread after dropping during the last weeks of beta. Hoping for some change but it doesn't seem to be happening yet. I'm glad to see people are enjoying it for what it is currently.
Haint
Member
Awntawn said:
WoW is a really weak scape goat. Think about how many Console-ites (especially in the JP community) have only played PSO, FFXI, and MH in the ORPG/MMO space. These same people are just as disgusted with XIV and WoW Vets. Certainly they are not playing the game like WoW or looking for WoW features, they've likely never even seen a screenshot of the game.
lol I can see where it's coming from. I'm not here to diss WoW, I actually liked it a lot. I just don't like the stigma that it's left on expectations from the MMO market, and was purposely being ignorant in that statement to show how people are being in their judgments of XIV. I'm with 85% of the criticisms of XIV and am first in line with a list of things I want changed, but there's still a lot to do now with the promise of more down the road.CcrooK said:
Japanese message boards are no better than 4chan. Every single thread on every single game is pretty much just the trolls and people there to flame the trolls. No one actually cares about the games there, and they definitely don't represent the thoughts of the majority of the community.Reallink said:
Canti said:
Depends really if your a solo type person then you will definitely want to for sure if your always in a group then it may not be so big a deal.Personally I am a marauder so I leveled up my Conj like Raging did till I got cure and stone skin.For marauder having stone skin and then the Defender ability it jacks up your defense really good.
Thaumaturge also has a good skill called exaltation that replenishes MP which is handy to have as well for when you don't feel like heading back to camp to recharge your MP.Really with the system the way it is you can really tank yourself good if you get the right skills.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
What about the over-hundred one star reviews on amazon.co.jp?Awntawn said:
Dreamwriter
Member
Maybe you are partying with the wrong people? Combat in my static party just approaching Rank 10 is very fun - it's similar to FFXI's later-game combat mechanics, where you actually need your tank, puller/damage dealer, healer/damage dealer. Or maybe your parties are taking on wimpy creatures, it's when we went after challenging stuff (ie, rank 10 Leves at rank 7/8) that it suddenly got fun.RocketDarkness said:
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
At higher levels, mobs hit hard enough to negate your stoneskin in one hit. Not worth it without CON affinity increases, IMO. Best CON subs for melee would be Shockspikes, Protect, Shell, and Cure/CureII. Good luck keeping your MP up, though.Cmagus said:
Krispy Killa v3
Neo Member
Thanks to all who responded. I guess that talks me out of it, unfortunately.
RocketDarkness
Member
Rank 20 Guildleves @ Rank 12 right now, 1-2 star difficulty. Doesn't help that everyone's slowly outleveling me due to that infernal glitch. When we started, I was 2 levels higher than everyone. Now I'm 4 levels behind.Dreamwriter said:
I could almost deal with the other aspects of the game if the UI was better. It's frustrating me more and more. If this is just maintenance coming up and not some form of update that addresses something I think I might be uninstalling the game. I've already removed my payment information and wanted to finish out the rest of the free month to get my monies worth and to see if anything changed. It's not fun though when I have to fight the interface and continue to be annoyed by it and other things. I'd like to see where the story goes but not if I have to deal with everything else to follow it.
After about two weeks now I'm at:
Phys rank 25
Pug 20, Marauder 12, Lancer 10, Archer 11, Thaum 4, Goldsmith 15, Miner 14, Weaving 4, Leather 3 or 4.
In all that time I think I would have to say that the game as is, is shit. Not the usual bad in the sense that the technology running it is a clusterfuck as is common with MMO launches, and not bad in the sense that the gameplay issues can't be fixed and are not likely to be fixed, but bad in the sense that there is utterly no point to play the game.
There's just no content. There's a lot of empty holes that they've not initiated that shows us where this will be, but of course that's all well and good before launch but definitely unacceptable at launch.
The lore is only confined to the main missions which only come every 5 ranks or so, and that is far and few in between. The story from leves are fairly mediocre and so far has my epic adventurer doing pest control or crating genital piercings (This is not an exaggeration, I'm literally crafting genital piercings for brothels in Ul'dah)
So instead of any motivation to play FFXIV specifically, all we do is stat grind our craft, jobs, or harvest abilities for the ultimate goal that some day, hopefully soon, we will have something else to do and we won't have to wait to do them.
What makes things worse is that despite the claim that this is a casual game, the grind is in fact worse than in FFXI, and I say this from playing since Cactuar. I can still continue because grinding is easy and I'm used to it, but how many other people will play this game at this incline filled with nothingness?
I cannot in good conscience recommend the game as is. I'll save the buddy pass until Square-Enix releases the actual game they're holding back for who knows what reason.
Phys rank 25
Pug 20, Marauder 12, Lancer 10, Archer 11, Thaum 4, Goldsmith 15, Miner 14, Weaving 4, Leather 3 or 4.
In all that time I think I would have to say that the game as is, is shit. Not the usual bad in the sense that the technology running it is a clusterfuck as is common with MMO launches, and not bad in the sense that the gameplay issues can't be fixed and are not likely to be fixed, but bad in the sense that there is utterly no point to play the game.
There's just no content. There's a lot of empty holes that they've not initiated that shows us where this will be, but of course that's all well and good before launch but definitely unacceptable at launch.
The lore is only confined to the main missions which only come every 5 ranks or so, and that is far and few in between. The story from leves are fairly mediocre and so far has my epic adventurer doing pest control or crating genital piercings (This is not an exaggeration, I'm literally crafting genital piercings for brothels in Ul'dah)
So instead of any motivation to play FFXIV specifically, all we do is stat grind our craft, jobs, or harvest abilities for the ultimate goal that some day, hopefully soon, we will have something else to do and we won't have to wait to do them.
What makes things worse is that despite the claim that this is a casual game, the grind is in fact worse than in FFXI, and I say this from playing since Cactuar. I can still continue because grinding is easy and I'm used to it, but how many other people will play this game at this incline filled with nothingness?
I cannot in good conscience recommend the game as is. I'll save the buddy pass until Square-Enix releases the actual game they're holding back for who knows what reason.
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