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[RDreamer]

For most people, being the most powerful and efficient is the most fun. Sure, you could "experiment" with being a DRK/WHM, but you'll just deal less damage and die easier than if you went DRK/SAM. People did plenty of experimenting with job combinations early on and the most viable combos survived. Newer players love to try to make new and unusual combinations but eventually they'll learn that what everyone else does is really the best for a reason. Strict party roles and a lack of balance on Square's part prevented a lot of fun combos being used.

Yeah, Square really should have made it a lot more flexible, and a majority of the blame for that is on them, but most of the people took things to an extreme. You know what, the best black mage I ever played with in FFXI was a japanese guy that played as a Galka. One of the best paladins I ever played with was a tarutaru. You know what happened when I tried to invite either of these people that I knew were absolutely spectacular to play with to my party? People bitched.

 

[Lain]

Do you mean Kittycatty?

Nope, just Kittycat, a Mithra Thief on Ragnarok.

 

[Zomba13]

I always thought he would stop after getting his tag, but I guess he is really that way.

I didn't notice Londa got a tag. ((Congratulations)) Londa.

 

[Teknoman]

It could be fixed by using more range attacks. I think every job has access to range. Not 100% sure on this, but I know Mar can throw Chakram.

Everything has a ranged attack:

Gladiator: Throwing knives
Pugilist: Chakram
Marauder: Throwing axes (tomahawks)
Archer:
Thaumaturge: Phantom Dart
Lancer: Javelins
Conjurer: ...I forget what it's called, but defeault attack as well...I think.

Theres also throwing items everyone can equip.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

For most people, being the most powerful and efficient is the most fun. Sure, you could "experiment" with being a DRK/WHM, but you'll just deal less damage and die easier than if you went DRK/SAM. People did plenty of experimenting with job combinations early on and the most viable combos survived. Newer players love to try to make new and unusual combinations but eventually they'll learn that what everyone else does is really the best for a reason. Strict party roles and a lack of balance on Square's part prevented a lot of fun combos being used.

See, that's exactly what I'm talking about. Only in an MMO will you find people describing "being efficient" as fun. Efficiency is for accountants.

 

[Gravijah]

I didn't notice Londa got a tag. ((Congratulations)) Londa.

Con(galka)lations!

 

[DaBuddaDa]

You know what, the best black mage I ever played with in FFXI was a japanese guy that played as a Galka. One of the best paladins I ever played with was a tarutaru. You know what happened when I tried to invite either of these people that I knew were absolutely spectacular to play with to my party? People bitched.

Well they're just dumb. Most people stopped caring about what race you were half a decade ago because it makes very little effective difference.

 

[Regulus Tera]

Watch the entire FFXIV impressions video, it is highlarious.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ei0GxMOBztA

 

[DaBuddaDa]

See, that's exactly what I'm talking about. Only in an MMO will you find people describing "being efficient" as fun. Efficiency is for accountants.

If dying easier, gimping your party, stressing your healers, contributing less, causing longer downtimes for your party and dealing less damage is fun to you, then by all means, experiment away!

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

If dying easier, gimping your party, stressing your healers, contributing less, causing longer downtimes for your party and dealing less damage is fun to you, then by all means, experiment away!

It's a fucking game, not a factory job!

 

[RDreamer]

Well they're just dumb. Most people stopped caring about what race you were half a decade ago because it makes very little effective difference.

Well, this was almost a half a decade ago, so yeah

See, that's exactly what I'm talking about. Only in an MMO will you find people describing "being efficient" as fun. Efficiency is for accountants.

Yeah efficiency was pretty fun when you could get a party really going, and I appreciated that, but I still don't get why people didn't take whoever they could get and make some creative parties and go out and have some fun. People complained that you had to have a party to do anything in that game, and everything took so long. Well a lot of the time it took so damned long because most people were insanely picky about who they went out with.

 

[Regulus Tera]

Nah, 13 is still worse.

Bitter much, Kagari? I hate FFXIII as much as you do and even I have to agree it isn't the stinkiest stinker in the franchise.

 

[Londa]

look at his user name. very unbiased reviewer there.

 

[DaBuddaDa]

It's a fucking game, not a factory job!

Being a ruthless cog in a well oiled, monster fucking machine of a party raking in exp like nobodys business was poetry and incredibly satisfying in FFXI.

 

[Regulus Tera]

look at his user name. very unbiased reviewer there.

Orin GA?

I don't get it.

 

[Regulus Tera]

No, you were called a viral marketer because of months and months and months and months and months and months of posts.

Hey, just because you're excited about a game for years that doesn't make you a viral marketer. It's not like Kagari got paid a cent for all her FFXIII pimping back in the day.

 

[RDreamer]

Being a ruthless cog in a well oiled, monster fucking machine raking in exp like nobodys business was incredibly satisfying in FFXI.

Yeah, but 99% of the time this didn't happen because 10 minutes after you got set up your paladin had to leave because his mom needs the computer or some crap, and then 30 minutes after that your black mage afks for 20 minutes to go eat. So quit worrying about it and have some fun.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

I hope everyone in the audience has enjoyed my and DaBuddaDa's short play re-enactment of why regular people don't play MMOs.

 

[Nirolak]

look at his user name. very unbiased reviewer there.

Did you just call Allakhazam, the site that covers just about every major MMO on earth in painstaking detail, notably biased?

 

[DaBuddaDa]

Yeah, but 99% of the time this didn't happen because 10 minutes after you got set up your paladin had to leave because his mom needs the computer or some crap, and then 30 minutes after that your black mage afks for 20 minutes to go eat. So quit worrying about it and have some fun.

If you exp with a paladin and a black mage, you're probably not gonna have a whole lot of fun :lol

I hope everyone in the audience has enjoyed my and DaBuddaDa's short play re-enactment of why regular people don't play MMOs.

/bows

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Orin GA?

I don't get it.

Wait, Orin is black?

 

[RDreamer]

If you exp with a paladin and a black mage, you're probably not gonna have a whole lot of fun :lol

Party dynamics changed after some expansion packs and stuff came out, didn't they? I came back for a few days for the hell of it way after I quit and stuff was rather different. Back when I played the ideal party was Paladin, White Mage, Red Mage, Black Mage, Damage Dealer (not a DRG, though), and pretty much everyone absolutely refused to go out if it wasn't that set up.

 

[Londa]

Did you just call Allakhazam, the site that covers just about every major MMO on earth in painstaking detail, notably biased?

Just because he is part of a site that covers several MMO's doesn't mean he can't like one over the other.

In this video he over looks that fact that the game has no music in the opening CS.

http://www.youtube.com/user/wowfony#p/u/12/sWOg_ZRTLMU

 

[BudokaiMR2]

See, that's exactly what I'm talking about. Only in an MMO will you find people describing "being efficient" as fun. Efficiency is for accountants.

Now that's not 100% true for all. It is actually fun in EVE to try and max your efficiency on the ships you own. But that makes sense because you are in a spaceship in the middle of no-where with bloodthirsty pirates waiting on the wings at all points.

 

[MaddenNFL64]

What was the setup? You had 1 or 2 bards who pulled mobs, slept em, and just kept bringing them as fast as possible. Then either you do that mana, or tp burn shit. Or you just had a whatever setup. it all worked well. Just gotta get them Bards!

 

[Margalis]

Being a ruthless cog in a well oiled, monster fucking machine raking in exp like nobodys business was incredibly satisfying in FFXI.

But so was being a level 13 Monk in the dunes with no subjob and bad equipment, joining a group of other similar players and desperately spending 10 minutes trying to kill a single crab. Or joining up with a bunch of people, entering Gusgen Mines and not knowing that undead aggro to low health.

Executing things with ruthless efficiency is fun in an "I feel like I'm accomplishing something because some bar onscreen is growing" kind of way but the most memorable moments are when something out of the ordinary happens.

That's why the Leeroy Jenkins video was popular where a video of a well-oiled group killing Onyxia for the 50th time was not.

 

[Nirolak]

Just because he is part of a site that covers several MMO's doesn't mean he can't like one over the other.

In this video he over looks that fact that the game has no music in the opening CS.

http://www.youtube.com/user/wowfony#p/u/12/sWOg_ZRTLMU

The extremely important difference here is that Cataclysm is in beta.

 

[DaBuddaDa]

Party dynamics changed after some expansion packs and stuff came out, didn't they?

Big time. To stop the OT conversation I'll be brief. 2-handed melee classes (samurai, dark knight, dragoon, warrior) with samurai subjob can use the ability Third Eye, and eventually Seigan, to almost entirely negate damage taken, and attack freely, bouncing the hate between them, thus rendering Paladins almost entirely useless. And here's a comment that'll send Segata into violent seizures: black mage DPS is incredibly low compared to melee classes in exp parties and have MP limitations so nobody ever wants them.

 

[Wallach]

Just because he is part of a site that covers several MMO's doesn't mean he can't like one over the other.

In this video he over looks that fact that the game has no music in the opening CS.

http://www.youtube.com/user/wowfony#p/u/12/sWOg_ZRTLMU

Could be because that content is actually still in beta and not on a retail shelf.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

I stand by my assertion: Final Fantasy XI would have been a great game if it weren't for the other players. Could you imagine doing a challenge like rk's four-job fiesta FF5 thing in FFXI? That would be so fun!

 

[Gravijah]

but when ffxiv was in beta why everyone hate it oh cause it not wow so bias

 

[sykoex]

Did you just call Allakhazam, the site that covers just about every major MMO on earth in painstaking detail, notably biased?

Not saying he's biased, but he's mentioned multiple times that his opinions have nothing to do with Allakhazam's.

Could be because that content is actually still in beta and not on a retail shelf.

He did the entire FFXIV video based on what he played in the beta, he hadn't touched a retail version by the time the vid was uploaded.

 

[DaBuddaDa]

Just because he is part of a site that covers several MMO's doesn't mean he can't like one over the other.

Lets assume you're right and all of these websites have a real bias and negative agenda against FFXIV. Can you tell us why? What did Square do to them that made them want to bash their new MMO?

 

[RDreamer]

But so was being a level 13 Monk in the dunes with no subjob and bad equipment, joining a group of other similar players and desperately spending 10 minutes trying to kill a single crab. Or joining up with a bunch of people, entering Gusgen Mines and not knowing that undead aggro to low health.

Executing things with ruthless efficiency is fun in an "I feel like I'm accomplishing something because some bar onscreen is growing" kind of way but the most memorable moments are when something out of the ordinary happens.

That's why the Leeroy Jenkins video was popular where a video of a well-oiled group killing Onyxia for the 50th time was not.

Pretty much this. Memories just like those are what I remember most about XI. The first time venturing into Jugner and exploring with 3 other new people who'd never been there and not knowing what could await us there. Then, we got chased down by a monster in the jungle and were forced to leave the area. It was great. I'll remember the times I was out goofing around with people and maybe gaining some exp also, when it didn't matter how much I was getting.

I also had a group of all tarutarus that we formed a party of only us and leveled on a certain day, and vowed to only level in really off the wall places. That was great. It always lead to some weird and sometimes hilarious situations. Mostly it was just funny seeing a bunch of tarutarus killing giraffes for exp.

Big time. To stop the OT conversation I'll be brief. 2-handed melee classes (samurai, dark knight, dragoon, warrior) with samurai subjob can use the ability Third Eye, and eventually Seigan, to almost entirely negate damage taken, and attack freely, bouncing the hate between them, thus rendering Paladins almost entirely useless. And here's a comment that'll send Segata into violent seizures: black mage DPS is incredibly low compared to melee classes in exp parties and have MP limitations so nobody ever wants them.

I personally find it really hilarious that people were so freaking set on one party design, never to change and then later found out that *GASP* some other setup was actually more efficient ANYWAY. But no, they couldn't experiment with that beforehand...

 

[MaddenNFL64]

But so was being a level 13 Monk in the dunes with no subjob and bad equipment, joining a group of other similar players and desperately spending 10 minutes trying to kill a single crab. Or joining up with a bunch of people, entering Gusgen Mines and not knowing that undead aggro to low health.

Executing things with ruthless efficiency is fun in an "I feel like I'm accomplishing something because some bar onscreen is growing" kind of way but the most memorable moments are when something out of the ordinary happens.

That's why the Leeroy Jenkins video was popular where a video of a well-oiled group killing Onyxia for the 50th time was not.

Memories of my Monk doing stupid shit in the game came back to me. Thanks for that!

I remember a RDM & Paladin friend of mine had to kill & reraise themselves over & over to get to my dead body, raise me, and get me to safety because I missed the correct "???" icon on the ground for a main mission & followed another "???" icon in the same area to a super NM clustered with high level mobs. Oh, and there were people who followed me to the wrong spot. I was like a retard tour guide.

 

[Wallach]

He did the entire FFXIV video based on what he played in the beta, he hadn't touched a retail version by the time the vid was uploaded.

What version? How different was the version he played compared to retail?

 

[Lonely1]

Lets assume you're right and all of these websites have a real bias and negative agenda against FFXIV. Can you tell us why? What did Square do to them that made them want to bash their new MMO?

They released a crappy MMO.

 

[Khrno]

Did you just call Allakhazam, the site that covers just about every major MMO on earth in painstaking detail, notably biased?

I don't know about the other games sections in Alla, but the FFXI has like the worst community ever, plagued of noobs and many idiotic people. Piko was cool until I don't remember what was his big screw up, oh some scam with the Wikia and the donations, or I'm mixing the stories?

And for what I've seen of the XIV site, is just as shit. The only good thing about those 2 sections is that Elmer works for them, he must be getting paid quite decently by them to do their translations and articles, because before then it was everything for free in his JPbutton site and BG.

 

[Bisonian]

You can't engage that target.
You can't engage that target.
You can't engage that target.
You can't engage that target.

That's not a bug, that's smart AI programming. If you were a mob, you wouldn't want that big gladiator engaging with his sword on you either. That's Square-Enix advancing combat to the next level.

If you guys would stop being bias, you would have realized that.

 

[DaBuddaDa]

I personally find it really hilarious that people were so freaking set on one party design, never to change and then later found out that *GASP* some other setup was actually more efficient ANYWAY. But no, they couldn't experiment with that beforehand...

The party dynamic changes were due to patches, new job abilities, new equipment and revelations concerning how the inner math of the game worked. This current party setup works fine now, but it would have been a disaster back in 2004.

 

[Gravijah]

You can't engage that target.
You can't engage that target.
You can't engage that target.
You can't engage that target.

That's not a bug, that's smart AI programming. If you were a mob, you wouldn't want that big gladiator engaging with his sword on you either. That's Square-Enix advancing combat to the next level.

If you guys would stop being bias, you would have realized that.

you have a SC2 avatar, thus you like SC, which means you like blizzard...

biased.

 

[Bisonian]

you have a SC2 avatar, thus you like SC, which means you like blizzard...

biased.

That's not a SC2 avatar, that's my catgirl on the dock of the ship.

<crosses arms>

 

[Londa]

You can't engage that target.
You can't engage that target.
You can't engage that target.
You can't engage that target.

That's not a bug, that's smart AI programming. If you were a mob, you wouldn't want that big gladiator engaging with his sword on you either. That's Square-Enix advancing combat to the next level.

If you guys would stop being bias, you would have realized that.

I never said "you can't engage that target" isn't a bug.

 

[LaneDS]

I never said "you can't engage that target" isn't a bug.

*woooooosh*

 

[RurouniZel]

Bitter much, Kagari? I hate FFXIII as much as you do and even I have to agree it isn't the stinkiest stinker in the franchise.

No, FFXIII is categorically worse. FFXIV, for all of its shortcomings, at least has basic things like high quality customization (though admittedly it leaves you to figure out how to use it, the opposite of XIII which holds your hand for the first 20 hours or so...), exploration, towns, scale, good music (XIII had Hamazu on a seriously bad day/week/month or something...).

XIV is flawed, but I'm actually enjoying it. I regret forcing myself to finish XIII. XIII got good reviews because reviewers were scared to give the game a bad score 'cause, you know, it'd been ages since the last Final Fantasy. Now that the backlash for XIII has lasted, it's not scary anymore to review a FF game so harshly.

Really, the game is a 6. 4 is more of a reactionary score IMO. There's lots of flaws sure, but to put this anywhere near, say, a broken game like Sonic 2006 is just... no.

 

[Spire]

wow, yep, I blindly pimp and run damage control for a game for months and I get called out to be a viral marketer. -_-

Fixed.

 

[DaBuddaDa]

Really, the game is a 6. 4 is more of a reactionary score IMO. There's lots of flaws sure, but to put this anywhere near, say, a broken game like Sonic 2006 is just... no.

What does a "reactionary score" even mean? You mean they "reacted" poorly to the game thus gave it a bad score? When I react poorly to a game I give it a low score too.

 

[Regulus Tera]

No, FFXIII is categorically worse. FFXIV, for all of its shortcomings, at least has basic things like high quality customization (though admittedly it leaves you to figure out how to use it, the opposite of XIII which holds your hand for the first 20 hours or so...), exploration, towns, scale, good music (XIII had Hamazu on a seriously bad day/week/month or something...).

XIV is flawed, but I'm actually enjoying it. I regret forcing myself to finish XIII. XIII got good reviews because reviewers were scared to give the game a bad score 'cause, you know, it'd been ages since the last Final Fantasy. Now that the backlash for XIII has lasted, it's not scary anymore to review a FF game so harshly.

Really, the game is a 6. 4 is more of a reactionary score IMO. There's lots of flaws sure, but to put this anywhere near, say, a broken game like Sonic 2006 is just... no.

FFXIII may be crap, but I rather play that than FFII.

 

[Gravijah]

You know, it doesn't make you a bad person to like games that are otherwise poorly received. It's OK. No one truly cares

 

[Yuripaw]

It's kinda surprising to see that even gametrailers.com gave FFXIV such a low score. They were one of the few sites that gave FFXI any recognition at all.

I really don't understand how everyone can be so harsh on FFXIV, because there have been far worse MMOs released in the past year. Star Trek Online for example I knew was gonna be complete garbage before it even came out, yet there was a lot of buzz from some journalists prior to it's release.