-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Final Fantasy XIV Reviews - GameSpot 4/10, GameTrailers 4.2/10, GameSpy 2/5, IGN 5.5
- Thread starter Effect
- Start date
- Status
Rahxephon91
Banned
I know a lot of fans think this would be a good idea. But I doubt it would sell well and say whatever you want, I sure don't want a handheld un-cinematic FF. I rather they keep the fantastic production values and try and make the content filled game we all want. Its obvious that story focused FF is something they want to do and a good amount of fans want. I don't see why that needs to be cut out.Himuro said:
BudokaiMR2
Member
Man God said:
Yeah it had a lot of problems, but I don't remember the UI being so laggy and terrible.
My biggest problem was the goddamn mob trains. Oh god the mob trains...
Ploid 3.0
Member
The mob trains were both horrible and awesome. When you were on your 3rd or so job in Jungle you got a chance to show off your level 45+ job in it's checker armor, or your 60+ job in full af. For the JP people AF2. Also the trains made things more interesting. You couldn't get too comfortable and it kept things exciting especially when you wasn't part of the mass deaths. Same for when other people are fighting over a HNM mpking each other back to back. That's pure entertainment.
Did you guys play FFXI JP launch though? We got it a year later. All the stuff you're describing wasn't present at launch. There was no AF, there was no advanced jobs at first and you couldn't go far in the story.
I didn't play it JP launch so I can't say, but I heard some horror stories.
I think it was ROTZ that made FFXI good (added a good story, lots of new areas, more job options, more quests, etc), COP which ruined it for a lot of people (I liked COP) and then TOAU that returned it back to FFXI goodness. Then it just continuely evolved so if you liked the game already you'll continue liking it.
This game probabaly just needs an expansion before it becomes good.
I didn't play it JP launch so I can't say, but I heard some horror stories.
I think it was ROTZ that made FFXI good (added a good story, lots of new areas, more job options, more quests, etc), COP which ruined it for a lot of people (I liked COP) and then TOAU that returned it back to FFXI goodness. Then it just continuely evolved so if you liked the game already you'll continue liking it.
This game probabaly just needs an expansion before it becomes good.
Dreamwriter said:
Lies. You're conflating tolerance of the game in the hopes that one day, hopefully in the very near future, they will patch in the actual game.
There's nothing in FFXIV right now that is really worth mentioning in terms of gameplay and only complete lunatics would actually use the word 'Love' for what is out right now.
Those that are 'enduring' are in here because they managed to turn FFXI from launch and they hope that FFXIV will be turned around. Those on the other hand claiming that what was released was great, or good, or that they love it, are mentally ill.
Tabris said:
Probably. Here's the thing though. Just because FFXI had issues during it's launch doesn't excused FFXIV. Nor should anyone give it any slack. In fact it should be held to a higher standard. Just as how Asheron's Call 2 was held to a higher standard then AC1. Same for EQ2 when compared with Everquest 1. Same for Warhammer when compared with Dark Age of Camelot. SE is no longer the rookie in this field and as time passes expectations naturally increase.
For all the issues Star Trek Online, Age of Conan, and several others had with retaining subscriptions they didn't have the issues this game has. What they had were bugs that should have been taken care of and content issues. Not actual design flaws that make up core systems of their games. Yet they still have trouble with subscriptions to this day. I still hold if the name Final Fantasy wasn't attached to this game those defending it wouldn't be so quick to ignore the issues it has. Those that have no personal interest in being in SE's graces (actual players and some western review sites) have presented their reviews of the games.
I think this will be a credibility situation for many Japanese reviewers in the next few weeks. Do they remain honest and actually comment on the game as it is and not what it could be (not will but could) in the future? Or do they praise it and rate it based on it's actual potential? Do they gloss over it's problems or actually talk about them? Do they hold accountable SE's creation of the game or do they drop blame on players and their computers for the problems? Do even they express problems with SE's lack of communication or do they simply accept it?
Torquill
Member
In the real world money isn't create out of nothing either. It's based on some commodity like gold or silver. You can print more money but that has inflationory repurcusions.zlatko said:
In the game, when a leve gives me Gil,
it comes from no where. The economy has more money. All existing money is worth less now. Unchecked, you get a game where money has no value. Everyone has max
money.
So money sinks are put into place to remove money from the economy. The taxes are one such system.
spandexmonkey
Banned
The more I'm playing this the more I'm liking it. This feels a lot like a fantasy based EVE. Comparing this to WoW is like comparing Fallout 3 to CoD.
Xilium
Member
Effect said:
I can't speak for everyone but I really don't think the FF MMOs have the luxury of riding on the FF name seeing as most FF fans tend to hate that the MMOs are even considered as part of the main franchise. I also think it's kind of ridiculous to say that the only reason XI is doing better than any other major MMO is due to name recognition. At the end of the day, if an MMO is not fun, people are not going to play it (which was apparent when XI had a sharp drop in its subscriptions early on due to the game being to "hardcore" relative to WOW).
As for the criticism and defense of XIV, most XIV fans aren't ignoring the games flaws (you can see the same complaints on any of the XIV fansites), but are willing to give the game time to mature because that what MMO early adopters do. This being SE's second MMO simply means that technical issues such as server stability and lag should be addressed early on (and they are doing pretty good on that front, save for the interface lag) but the core game is vastly different than XI and will come with its own set of bugs to be dealt with. As for design decisions (specifically the AH), I don't begrudge them for trying to do something different. I think the reason that many MMOs ultimately fail is because so many of their systems have been standardized to the point that the only thing setting most of them apart is setting, which usually leads to people returning to WOW after a couple of months. I'm willing to give them the opportunity to create new MMO systems and if they fail, they fail and we go back to the standard.
But what I get most annoyed about is reviewers reviewing an MMO (any MMO) right after release because the scores rarely reflect the game's ultimate fate. Quite the contrary actually, as previously mentioned in this topic, a large number of critically praised MMOs have failed or are dying. It just a fact that MMO's take time to hit their stride and if you're not the type of person that wants do deal with that, don't buy an MMO till the 6 months or so after release or better yet, wait till the first expansion.
Xilium said:
Final Fantasy XI release date.
PlayStation 2: Japan - May 16, 2002 and North America - March 23, 2004
PC: Japan - November 7, 2002, North America - October 28, 2003, PAL - September 17, 2004
World of Warcraft's release date.
November 23, 2004 in North America and Australasia
February 11, 2005 in Europe
The major MMORPGs released by the time FFXI came out and around it's release (for the record going forward) were Everquest 1, Ultima Online, Asheron's Call, Anarchy Online, Dark Age of Camelot, Ragnarok Online, Lineage 2, Eve Online, Shadowbane, and City of Heroes.
Pureauthor
Member
I can see forever!
Maybe it's the other way around. Maybe people playing FFXI played WoW and were all 'Why is this stuff so much less aggravating than FFXI' and jumped ship.
Maybe it's the other way around. Maybe people playing FFXI played WoW and were all 'Why is this stuff so much less aggravating than FFXI' and jumped ship.
Effect said:
Asheron's Call 1 and 2 were a different story all together. The first AC was great because the game absolutely did not hold the player's hand in anyway, and the entire game in itself was challenging and rewarding, and offered a ton of freedom. AC2 took all of that and threw it away for a more stream-lined noob-friendly approach that made the game boring as hell.
Its sad to see games get shit on if an interface isn't informative enough, or it doesn't teach the player how to do everything when you first start playing. Its the primary reason I don't play MMOs anymore. Completely predictable and mind-numbingly boring because developers just hand everything to the players, and the only real challenge comes from tedious boring grindfests to either level or collect gear.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Although this is mainly going to be of amusement/interest for FFXI players (old and current), JPButton's timeline of the early days of the game makes for fascinating reading
http://www.jpbutton.com/?p=157 (this page is just 2002, 2003 stuff is possibly even more interesting).
To summarize, if you think FFXIV is broken... its got nothing on FFXI's issues/omissions at launch.
What is encouraging is how quickly SE fixed stuff up, although hopefully they've learned that its probably not best to make too many radical changes at one time, without judging the player-base's response first.
I strongly suspect that if you like(d) FFXI, SE will turn things around to your satisfaction - most likely by PS3 launch which I suspect will be the equivalent of Zilart.
http://www.jpbutton.com/?p=157 (this page is just 2002, 2003 stuff is possibly even more interesting).
To summarize, if you think FFXIV is broken... its got nothing on FFXI's issues/omissions at launch.
What is encouraging is how quickly SE fixed stuff up, although hopefully they've learned that its probably not best to make too many radical changes at one time, without judging the player-base's response first.
I strongly suspect that if you like(d) FFXI, SE will turn things around to your satisfaction - most likely by PS3 launch which I suspect will be the equivalent of Zilart.
funkmastergeneral
Banned
Clear said:
Wow that's great news, SE will fix the game into a playable state, that I bought now, 5 months in the future. That makes me feel soooo good.
Pureauthor
Member
That's the problem. They already had FFXI. There is absolutely no reason why they should have to go through the birthing pains of designing a working MMO a second time around.
notworksafe
Member
Then shouldn't they know better? It's stupid that XIV has issues that they figured out years ago with XI.Clear said:
notworksafe
Member
Yeah, releasing a broken MMO will get new players to come in droves.
Yeah, reading that JP article it sounds like it's the exact same case as FFXIV. No auction house in launch for a month and a bit. Jobs weren't semi-balanced until a couple months. All the good travel options weren't added for past 3 months. No new content for past 3 months.
Guys, just don't play for 3-6 months and come back to it
That's my plan, I won't play it until they get it to a "released state".
Guys, just don't play for 3-6 months and come back to it
That's my plan, I won't play it until they get it to a "released state".Torquill said:
I think an AH is inevitable. Even with a number of changes to the wards they'll never compare to a well-done AH, and the wards are one of the biggest gripes people have. I think one S-E employee made some comment about how an AH wasn't on the way, but S-E's word is worthless. They commented on how they had no plans to implement a hardware mouse cursor, someone releases a 3rd party app that changes one variable to allow it, and voila, S-E magically implements the hardware cursor they already had ready to go but were blatantly lying to us about. I'd expect a similar turnaround with the AH happening.
notworksafe
Member
AH is coming. You could see the buildings set up with the AH logo on the sign in the Beta. I assume they are still in the game right now.
Khrno said:
He is the one that said FFXIV was to compete with WoW. While Tanaka said they aren't trying to compete with WoW. But people keep posting Wada's quote because it helps prove their point that FFXIV is failing, or needs to be a WoW clone. I'm looking at you notworksafe.
Xilium
Member
Seeing as the auction house is currently only in one town, they might try to make it a literal AH. By that I mean there would be no "buy out" option so every item on sale will simply have a minimum price and some set length of time for bidding. Since the AH will only be in one town, it will deter some people from traveling there just to sell or buy items in which there is an abundance of in the market wards. So in theory, only people looking to sell or buy rare items/high quality crafts would go through the hassle (and pay the likely tax) giving people the experience of an actual bidding battle (which doesn't happen too often in other MMOs).
But in all likelihood, they will cave under pressure and just put in a world-accessible AH.
But in all likelihood, they will cave under pressure and just put in a world-accessible AH.
notworksafe
Member
Here's a tip: Tanaka does what his boss says. If Wada wants to position the game as a rival to WoW's "throne", it will be considered as such.Londa said:
Also I don't want the game to be a "WoW clone", though you probably have no idea what that is...considering your lack of experience with WoW.
EDIT: I suppose if you mean a game that allows alt+tabbing, reorganizing of equipment, a proper auction house, a non-laggy UI, and one full of content...then yes. A "WoW clone" would be a welcome change.
Mister Zimbu
Member
Xilium said:
Just because there's literally no hope of even approaching let alone surpassing WoW doesn't mean that they can just ignore it.
Noone's asking for the game to be a WoW clone.
They just want some content and a UI and game design that helps the players get what they want done instead of just blatantly getting in the way.
Not having a working basis for an economy or a recipe book or more than a few hours of content at release in 2010 is downright unacceptable.
They should have embraced the innovations that took place in the past 7 years, not completely ignored them and went on their own way.
The fact is, they had a beta and alpha version with plenty of people testing it, and hundreds of people posting on their feedback forums. EVERY issue that there is in the game, be it with content, the horrible leve system, the UI interface and lag, and lack of an auction house, and the unusability of the market wards system, the obtuse crafting system, broken combat and SP gains, had been repeatedly pointed out quite vocally to them by their testers for many, many months preceding the game's release, and they chose to stubbornly ignore all of them.
Square deserves every bit of the 4/10 rating they got, and nothing more. They clearly aren't interested in listening to the needs of their customers, and don't have a clue about how to do things on their own.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
Londa said:
All MMOs do compete with WoW, regardless of the developers' intentions or not.
Xilium
Member
Mister Zimbu said:
TBH, I think they do need to go their own way. I agree that SE is slow in implementing their mechanics but as I stated earlier, I'm willing to wait to see something new and original.
When you look at which MMOs have become successful, they are the ones most unlike WOW. The Lineage games and Aion for instanced were crafted to cater specifically to an eastern audience. They are very grind heavy and pvp-focused. Or EVE Online, which is about as anti-WOW an MMO you can get, that has had a steadily growing subscriber base since it's release. These games are meant to appeal more to the hardcore and have abandoned many of the casual friendly game mechanics that many MMOs today use.
Basically, I think WOW has already won the casual market and at best all you can do is divert their attention for a short period of time. If you want you game to have longevity though, I think you need to do more to appeal to the hardcore base.
Now I admittedly don't know if that is what XIV is going for or if the game is just broken. Only time will tell.
Khrno said:
Hard to say it's Wada when it comes to design decisions. There are some basic stuff that was apart of FFXI and that was added to FFXI that is still missing from FFXIV. Things that should have been agreed upon in the very beginning of production. Sure Wada can be blamed for over promising something or even demanding the game be released ahead of time but when it comes to actual design issues it's all Tanaka.
notworksafe
Member
Best moment of my GAF life right here. :lolLaneDS said:
Rahxephon91 said:
Because they aren't growing their playerbase relative to the growth of their production budgets. And yes, that's a big damn problem.
Regulus Tera said:
I would make the argument that EVE doesn't, but that's due to how specialized and distinctive its design is. Any game that is remotely similar to the EQ model is going to inevitably be compared to and compete directly against WoW, that's true.
Mister Zimbu
Member
Xilium said:
You're missing the forest for the trees though. I'm not saying it has to be like WoW and do everything like WoW does, but rather look at WoW, and other modern MMOs as an inspiration.
Why go against the grain with the market ward system? The economy problem in MMOs has more or less been solved already and probably doesn't need to be optimized any further. What does the Market Ward system accomplish other than "not being an auction house?" Even after they get searching and categorization out of the way, why is it better than an auction house? Why even bother going in this direction? You can't do things just to be different.
Most modern MMOs these days have an intuitive crafting system in them already. You pick the recipe out of your recipe book and you craft it, optionally having to be at a crafting facility (forge, anvil, etc.) to do so.
Unlike the auction house, there is a TON of improvement to be had there, especially if you want the crafting to be a more core game mechanic instead of just a menu, like Square wanted to do. However, don't rewrite the entire system from scratch- just use the existing proven systems as a foundation. Why is there no recipe book? There is literally no reason. Why should I have to look at a crafting guide or a notebook on my desk to figure out the ingredients, then pick them out one by one, THEN go through their incredibly painful and unexplained crafting process to create them? I'm not asking for a list of all recipes in the game to be given to everyone immediately (or even eventually) but rather, why not have it when you discover a recipe it goes into your book so you can use it later?
I like the idea that the crafting (and gathering) is a game within itself, but I think the fact that the game's been out in the players' hands for months now and still noone has the slightest clue on how the crafting minigame actually works is a sign of how poorly designed it is. Sure, there's guides for it out there, but last I checked, they're all contradictory towards each other. There's no reason they need to obfuscate the rules of a game to provide the challenge- if the crafting rules themselves are designed correctly, then the game itself will be its own challenge.
There's tons of issues like the above in the FFXIV. That's the problem that most people are having issues with, not that it's not exactly like WoW.
- Status