Ah well, had to switch to my healer to farm gear for my dps in DF, these queues are crazy.
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Final Fantasy XIV: Stormblood |OT| Y'all Need to Calm Down
- Thread starter Ken
- Start date
Ah well, had to switch to my healer to farm gear for my dps in DF, these queues are crazy.
I prefer to be a healer doing dps than just curing exclusively. I can use as many skills as I can but sometimes the damage just becomes so unpredictable that I become inefficient in my MP use.
Had anybody done the math that big pulls are actually the fastest/preferable way?
Had anybody done the math that big pulls are actually the fastest/preferable way?
In endgame dungeons, large pulls are generally faster if the party can handle it. Given enough targets, AoE skills have more potency than single-target skills, which means everyone in their party is getting more damage out per GCD in a large pull.
For example, let's say a DPS job's single target rotation does an average of 300 potency per GCD, and their AoE skill does 150 potency per target per GCD. The tank pulls several groups, which adds up to 10 enemies. If the DPS job uses his single target rotation, he's putting out 300 potency per GCD used. If he uses his AoE rotation (let's just say it's that one 150 potency AoE move over and over), then that's 150 x 10 = 1500 potency per GCD used. Since everyone is putting out more potency per GCD, that means they're doing more damage to enemies than they would with single pulls.
This applies to tanks and healers as well. Healers have AoE skills that scale up similarly with the number of targets, and oh-shit buttons like Benediction to keep a tank alive long enough for most targets to die off. Tanks have AoE rotations too, and they have heavy cooldowns to survive massive onslaughts of enemies temporarily.
It's not strictly that simple since many AoE skills are nerfed now and some scale down with more targets, but that's the basic idea of why AoE pulls lead to more damage out of each player than single pulls.
Of course, that all hinges on the party's overall dps being high enough to kill everything off before the healers and tanks run out of tools to survive the onslaught of however many enemies the tank pulled. Gear also matters, as a tank can't survive tons of enemies at the same time if he doesn't have the gear for it, no matter how many cooldowns he uses.
It depends entirely on your DPS jobs. Especially after the Stormblood nerfs that some jobs got where the effectiveness of an ability on additional targets is decreased significantly.
For any of the jobs with abilities that don't depreciate on additional targets, it should be faster on 3+ targets as AoE attacks seem to be about 1/2 to 1/3 of single target attack damage. But I don't have hard math for you on this.
EndcatOmega
Unconfirmed Member
DRGs don't get AOE till 40 now. I think that's worse than it was before.
Stone Ocean
Member
As a rule of thumb yeah, 3+ targets is when you want to start AoEing instead of doing single target damage.
Gamer @ Heart
Member
Basically.
If the move is at least 150 potency, I say start at 3 mobs because no combo will out do that hitting 3
Below that, like ninjas spammable 110 potency kunai throw, wait until 4 mobs. It's more effective to burn a single target down between ogcds aoe.
You can't chain pull stuff really in low level dungeons though, and stuff dies really quickly and Ring of Thorns was never really a good AOE move due to the combo requirement either. Dragoon AOE at 70 is really good if you've got Life of the Dragon prepped for a big pull because you don't need to worry about keeping up BOTD during Life of the Dragon and can spam your AOE stuff + Nastrond.
Diurnal. Never had any issues with giant pulls anywhere else, even the last big pull before Ivon, so I wanted to see what the issue is. I've always been able to let regen heals take care of the tank while alternating a heal if needed and gravity. The 14 mob pull has been the first issue I've encountered so I wanted to identify the problem and fix it rather than say I can't do it.
From what I've gathered, my heals have been frontloaded and I need to spread out my stun and bombs and prep for tank CDs being gone. I was gonna do nocturnal on the run after next to see the difference. It seems entirely doable on either sect.
Probably far too early to talk about new jobs right now, but I'm thinkin' Blue Mage will be a Tank and we'll probably get Dancer as some kind of, weird healer type? Alchemist sounds cool, but feels too similar to Machinist in alot of ways and I really dont want to see Beast Master.
Alchemist already exists as a crafting class...
Blue Mage has only been referenced in a meta context (in-game mail descriptions from S-E) and Geomancer is referenced directly in-game. We've also heard Yoshi-P say they want to make an original job new to the FF universe.
Personally, I want Berserker or something with a hammer. They need another Blunt weapon type.
Combine Miner and Botanist into one gathering class: Geomancer.
The tears of blood would be truly beautiful.
ah, yeah, I was thinking Chemist ala FFT/FFX-2.
Cant imagine what they'd do as an original job, Dancer could be be the blunt (Fans?) disciple priest heal type
DD or something weird, like heal with TP actions that dps and heal near by party memebersi just want disc priest in this not gonna lie
Geomancer seems like an offshoot/evolution of Conjourer? Geo's uses elements dont they?
Hammerdin, melee healer with Giant Mallet that you pull from Hammer Space
Hentailover
Member
Think they will ever make fates a viable means of leveling again? I just want more open world means of leveling. I can't do PotD while being in a queue for roulettes...
I used to do the sect swap and Noct shield between pulls then flip back to Diurnal for the Regen, but at some point got locked into Noct and ended up just running with it because Noct AB is just dumb right now. Diurnal is ~1040 heal potency spread out over 18 seconds, which totally creams the combined 700 potency heal + shield from Noct AB. but then with how damage plays out in the level 70 dungeons being able to get the full 700 potency out of AB every other GCD with no cast time just gets silly.
Definitely curious to hear how Diurnal works out on that pull, though, after you try again.
They already are; you just need a group (4+) to take them down fast enough to be worthwhile. People are starting to run them in Yanxia and the Azim Steppe.
Lunafreya Nox Fleuret
Member
They are very viable because I used them as rdm during my dps q's. Makes things so much faster.
It was pretty fast grinding levels out with a party the first couple days of early access, but it's pretty slow if you're grinding them out solo rather than with like 20 other people.
The new forlorn maiden buff + exp up FATES help though, you can get mad exp from that.
Cant imagine what they'd do as an original job, Dancer could be be the blunt (Fans?) disciple priest heal type
Fans would be piercing or slashing, they cut. Blunt weapons crush.
Ball and chain/flail!
Pre order to get Bow Wow.
But if you think about it, the guy whose name I can't remember (Yutsutu's bodyguard) had a giant 2H hammer.
MikeBison
Member
Set up a PF with friends (very competent) to clear Lakshmi. Nice and friendly. 1 tank was a mistake, he never used VRIL for the tank buster during chimichanga at all.
Bounded out and just joined a party asking for experienced people only. Joined and said I hadn't cleared but knew the strat, if you want me to leave then no bother. Said it was fine and we clearednfirst try.
Bounded out and just joined a party asking for experienced people only. Joined and said I hadn't cleared but knew the strat, if you want me to leave then no bother. Said it was fine and we clearednfirst try.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Does trial roulette give cracked clusters?
adversarial
Member
I'm kind of surprised they didn't implement this class. Chemist's rule. FFT4Life.
Didn't Strago use flails in FFVI?
I say we get bells. Like the geomancers in FFV. Or maybe a paint brush that Relm had
Bells would be the obvious one, it's been their signature weapon since FFIII.
That said it'd be kind of neat if they pulled something similar like what they did with turning Time Mage into AST where they combine Geomancer with Relm's Pictomancy.
Kent
Member
Chemist as a healer is something I want to see. Mudra-like concocting of special effects in a custom mixture they can use for various means. Maybe give them a grenade launcher-style gun for launching potions that you mix at enemies and allies.
There's enough gameplay potential to separate it from the fact that "alchemist" exists as something that does crafting, easily.
My only problem with Berserker (/Viking) is that it would be thematically very similar to what Warrior is. The only recurring and typical blunt-damage-centric job in the series is really Monk, and that's covered already. So either we'd be looking at something new, or we could bring in a job that's only appeared in one game... Such as Green Mage (which used purely support spells, and had access to the very powerful class of two-handed hammers), which could feasibly work as a utility-oriented job that's also melee.
Bonus points if they can do very chunky damage with having casting bars tied to the windup of their weaponskills.
There's enough gameplay potential to separate it from the fact that "alchemist" exists as something that does crafting, easily.
My only problem with Berserker (/Viking) is that it would be thematically very similar to what Warrior is. The only recurring and typical blunt-damage-centric job in the series is really Monk, and that's covered already. So either we'd be looking at something new, or we could bring in a job that's only appeared in one game... Such as Green Mage (which used purely support spells, and had access to the very powerful class of two-handed hammers), which could feasibly work as a utility-oriented job that's also melee.
Bonus points if they can do very chunky damage with having casting bars tied to the windup of their weaponskills.
I played both and yea they do not play the same. There is no real debuffer or support slot for the XI version so they did something different. Just consider them a quick-casting mage (mini chainspells go off all the time playing the XIV version) who gets into melee range occasionally for finishers and has some light off healing/rez options and you'll have the jist of it.
Indicates the number of groups in party finder that are aiming for that content.
djplaeskool
Member
60+ SAM is so good oh my god.
I don't think blue mage would feel fun unless it started at level one or the moves had to be enhanced by how many times you've observed them in battle.
It would be very difficult to make a Blue Mage in the traditional sense in XIV. They could easily make a caster who has all the standard blue magic spells, but they couldn't let you make it all the way to endgame without having your whole toolkit, so there won't be any sense of discovery that defines the job.
But they could still surprise me. Red Mage still has the flavor you'd expect and feels very much like one, despite being more of a straightforward caster this time.
I guess the closest thing they could do is lock them behind job quests.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
Or how about not coddling people? Blue Magic learning isn't a hard concept to understand.
The race to find all the abilities would be pretty fun too at launch.
Geomancers are pretty boring in the AST class quests. They just cast WHM Stone/Wind spells and not much else.
I guess they could have a different kind of Geomancer art or something from elsewhere if they wanted to add it, but I am skeptical about that happening anytime soon when they so nonchalantly threw them into this questline.
(the AF of the "real" Geomancers in the quest looked like Oracles or w/e from FFT, these guys/gals, though not quite the same
)
They could find a way to make BLU work the same way they could find a way to make RDM work but I don't think you'd be killing/farming monsters like in 11, let's be srs here. And I'd imagine there'd be a lot of b*tching just like how SMN doesn't play like old/other games, but I dunno how much the dev team would care about that.
I guess they could have a different kind of Geomancer art or something from elsewhere if they wanted to add it, but I am skeptical about that happening anytime soon when they so nonchalantly threw them into this questline.
(the AF of the "real" Geomancers in the quest looked like Oracles or w/e from FFT, these guys/gals, though not quite the same
They could find a way to make BLU work the same way they could find a way to make RDM work but I don't think you'd be killing/farming monsters like in 11, let's be srs here. And I'd imagine there'd be a lot of b*tching just like how SMN doesn't play like old/other games, but I dunno how much the dev team would care about that.
To be fair they don't use unique animations for jobs teased in those kinda things. Iroha in the XI crossover event is a samurai but used Dragoon animations.Geomancers are pretty boring in the AST class quests. They just cast WHM Stone/Wind spells and not much else.
I guess they could have a different kind of Geomancer art or something from elsewhere if they wanted to add it, but I am skeptical about that happening anytime soon when they so nonchalantly threw them into this questline.
(the AF of the "real" Geomancers in the quest looked like Oracles or w/e from FFT, these guys/gals, though not quite the same)
There weren't unique animations for Red Mage when it appeared as a tease in a story quest, either. I think Gosetsu actually having the samurai animations was the first time it'd ever happened. And if they did Blue Mage you'd probably get the monster abilities from the job quests.
How Squenix could get me to rage quit the game >_>
Having a RDM tease in the MSQ that everyone saw just prior to an expansion launch, tied to a major character who's been around for years and whose "job" was up in the air prior, and who proceeded to stick around for the proceeding MSQs is quite a bit different from straight up name dropping Geomancer and then sticking them in a single questline locked behind being 60+ in one particular job, imo. Especially when any new job for us is years away.
I'm not saying they will never do it, I'm saying they are treating Geomancer like a non factor with not even an ounce of mystery or excitement about the class, so it would be super weird that they'd try to hype this up as a new job down the line. They'd probably have to totally re-do the job and repackage it with a new name a la Time Mage > AST. Which again, they could. But making guesses about something that'd be so different from the source material (at least in theory) seems like the kind of fun I'm not too interested in.
And yea people should definitely temper expectations about making BLU some kind of special snowflake job with all this extra stuff added just for them. Y'all know damn well SE ain't got time for that.
Stone Ocean
Member
Only leveling does
I saw healer leveling in need... And I had to go to work D=