Final Fantasy XIV: Stormblood |OT| Y'all Need to Calm Down

Dragoon changes are welcome, but it's not going to close the massive disparity in damage. They need potency increases. The B4B/Disembowel double nerf was a huge double wammy.

I love the new Dragoon rotation, and I consider myself a pretty good one (hey top 10 DRG lakshmi parse), but still, I could switch to SAM and do tons more DMG at half the effort.
 
Aeana said:
The fey union range change is good, but otherwise it sounds like they don't think scholar has a problem. Jesus.
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That's because SCH doesn't really have a problem. It was already good, extremely good dps and support healing, and these just help it be a little less clunky which was the important thing to fix
 
SCH is basically inverse WHM at this point. WHM feels more fun and free to play than it did before, is a beast in dungeons, but didn't really get anything interactive or a raid slot for any reason other than "we have a noct AST already."

SCH is super solid raid healing, but is considerably more tedious for dungeon runs at least so far. I'm only 64, but none of the post-64 stuff are dungeon game changers and I already thought the old SCH was kind of boring in dungeons so the loss of DoTs and blizz 2 hasn't helped.

Standard everything is viable disclaimer, but I can get why people would be let down with the SCH changes.
 
iammeiam said:
SCH is basically inverse WHM at this point. WHM feels more fun and free to play than it did before, is a beast in dungeons, but didn't really get anything interactive or a raid slot for any reason other than "we have a noct AST already."

SCH is super solid raid healing, but is considerably more tedious for dungeon runs at least so far. I'm only 64, but none of the post-64 stuff are dungeon game changers and I already thought the old SCH was kind of boring in dungeons so the loss of DoTs and blizz 2 hasn't helped.

Standard everything is viable disclaimer, but I can get why people would be let down with the SCH changes.
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None of post 60 sch skills feel all that great to use compared to what AST and WHM got.
 
One of the aspects of Dragoon I don't want them to touch is the length it takes to reach Life of the Dragon status. At first I was baffled by it, but over time i've come to appreciate it, a lot. It feels like a limit break on its own. It feels special, which is something I haven't found with any other class.
 
Aw yehsies. Got my 1080ti and ready to jump back in in all 4k glory.Its crazy how good this game is. I mean I can just tank and tank and tank. I dont care what I'm tanking as long as I'm tanking!
 
I get compliments on the size of my Giant
Dominance.
 
Well, i've started playing this. After so many times i was itching to go back in FFXI in the previous years, waiting on FFXIV 1.0, seemingly being disapointing, then ARR, etc etc, i guess now was better than never.

Free trial of course.

But it's very good so far.
 
QisTopTier said:
That's because SCH doesn't really have a problem. It was already good, extremely good dps and support healing, and these just help it be a little less clunky which was the important thing to fix
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It definitely has a problem with shield strength and AoE healing/shielding capacity. You said it has good support healing, which is kind of the issue. Why take a healer and a "support healer" when AST can do SCH's job* better?

*yes, scholar's job is to heal, so it having better DPS than AST is ancillary.

And this is all on top of it now being super boring to play.
 
studyguy said:
I mean I'd wait till they actually release the patch before celebrating knowing SE lol
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"And those are the adjustments we've made to PLD.

Now onto the WAR changes.

We've taken your feedback into consideration and have increased the potency of heavy swing by 10.

Now, onto the DRK changes."
 
Stone Ocean said:
More damage on Path combo
Shake it Off being reworked in 4.1
Other stuff that they won't go in detail, look forward to patch notes etc etc
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Killthee said:
Q3. Currently Paladin feels like it excels both in offensive and defensive capabilities, are there any plans for adjustments to Warrior/Dark Knight?

A3. We will be increasing Warrior and Dark Knight damage.

Making the cast time for Paladin’s Holy Spirit so short made it too powerful, so we will be making adjustments around that point. We’ll also be removing the reduction in the Oath Gauge when switching oaths.

Warrior’s Shake It Off will be adjusted.
Plans for adjustments are currently being talked over, and will be implemented sometime after 4.05.

We have removed the halving of the Beast Gauge when changing stances.
Additionally, the potency during Storm’s Path combo will be increased starting 4.05.

Dark Knight will see potency increases in combo damage.
Click to expand...

YAY
 
Aeana said:
It definitely has a problem with shield strength and AoE healing/shielding capacity. You said it has good support healing, which is kind of the issue. Why take a healer and a "support healer" when AST can do SCH's job* better?

*yes, scholar's job is to heal, so it having better DPS than AST is ancillary.

And this is all on top of it now being super boring to play.
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AST doesn't do a SCH's job better and if you had a WHM you bring an AST for the card buffs anyways if you wanted to optimize

There is A LOT more going on from the SCH's end of support besides shielding.

They are still by far the best support healer in the game while WHM has too many unneeded healing tools instead of giving party boost options which pushes AST into their spot as AST has just the amount of healing needed to main heal while providing buffs

And DPS outputs matter quite a bit from a healer that's just how end game for this game works.
 
Aeana said:
It definitely has a problem with shield strength and AoE healing/shielding capacity. You said it has good support healing, which is kind of the issue. Why take a healer and a "support healer" when AST can do SCH's job* better?

*yes, scholar's job is to heal, so it having better DPS than AST is ancillary.

And this is all on top of it now being super boring to play.
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because AST/WHM is a worse comp
 
Any NINs here able to help explain how the lvl 70 ability TenChiJin works? Is it just a Ninjutsu timer reset?

EUrNoZh.jpg
 
All three healers, if played optimally, revolve heavily around knowing the fight intimately and coordinating with your co-healer. That's not SCH's special territory at this point, especially given how lousy with DPS all three healers are. Which, yes, is another topic in the "why FFXIV healing is jank as hell", but it is what it is.

Trying to actually work out healing in any two healer pair comes down to working out who has what up when, how much can be healed through coasting on oGCDs alone, and if a GCD has to be spent healing, which of the pair loses the least doing it. Reactive healing has been bad for all the healers for a really, really long time. Trying to pitch SCH's strength as needing to know the fight makes no sense; that's true for everyone if they're doing it right. Coordinating Susano P1 for no GCD healing between a WHM and an AST is just as reliant on knowing the damage patterns as anything SCH has going on (and possibly slightly more so since the AST has to prep a big AOE heal at least 10 seconds in advance to abuse Stellar Explosion.)

Like, I totally agree that SCH/AST is a stronger endgame pair than AST/WHM. But AST/WHM is a stronger pair than SCH/WHM, because what you lose by not having a SCH at this point is super minimal compared to what you lose by not having an AST. AST/WHM may actually have a slight edge in prog for the average (read: not world prog) comp just due to WHM's ability to vent MP for years. Chain Stratagem--the big reason they're an auto-include in optimal at this point-- is also at the worst spot it's going to be at this expansion, given the widespread deemphasis on crit.

And it sucks in dungeons, which is killer. I'm leveling WHM last literally because it's the one I know I'll still have fun leveling; taking SCH into dungeons is just grim obligation.
 
Vic_Viper said:
Any NINs here able to help explain how the lvl 70 ability TenChiJin works? Is it just a Ninjutsu timer reset?

EUrNoZh.jpg
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resets your mudra and then lets you use your mudra without putting it on cd until the 3rd mudra

so you can do fuma -> raiton - >suiton or fuma -> katon -> doton back to back
 
SliceSabre said:
None of post 60 sch skills feel all that great to use compared to what AST and WHM got.
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Tell you what, you can have Plenary and Lilies and you give me Excog and Stratagem, deal?

Vic_Viper said:
Any NINs here able to help explain how the lvl 70 ability TenChiJin works? Is it just a Ninjutsu timer reset?

EUrNoZh.jpg
Click to expand...
It basically turns every Mudra sign into a full mudra. So like, you cast Ten > Mudra you get Fuma Shuriken, then you can use Chi > Mudra for Raiton as if you had done a Ten Chi Mudra
 
"Egis are small and ugly. We want our summons like they were in 11!"

*makes Demi-Bahamut bigger*

"Demi-Bahamut is too big and blocks things!"

I swear, people.
 
Ragingnight said:
resets your mudra and then lets you use your mudra without putting it on cd until the 3rd mudra

so you can do fuma -> raiton - >suiton or fuma -> katon -> doton back to back
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Awesome, thank you. I was having a hard time figuring it out why it was there when I already had Mudra. Thank you so much!
 
Again, a major part of the Demi-Bahamut complaint is that he's uncontrollable. I'm not playing summoner and I hate having summoners in the party because his big dumb ass keeps showing up. If they let summoners use place with him, I'd guess the complaints would die off. They just didn't realize making a big summon would require it being an uncontrollable stalker.

Stone Ocean said:
Tell you what, you can have Plenary and Lilies and you give me Excog and Stratagem, deal?
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I will give Excog this: It's the first skill in the game to make me happy when I get a really bad tank, because I know it will actually fire off.

Nothing quite like the tank dropping to 54% and then fucking Selene healing him just in time for excog to drop off. It baffles me that it doesn't detonate like Earthly Star, even if at a slightly lower potency.
 
I personally think all 3 healers are in a decent spot right now. Well I take that back, AST needs a nerf on balance. That shit is completely stupid. 1 aoe balance > 2 hyper charge and 1 single target balance > 2 raging strikes.

But beside that all 3 healers are in a good spot. If they nerfed balance then WHM/SCH wouldn't be too far behind AST/WHM or AST/SCH.
 
Wilsongt said:
"Egis are small and ugly. We want our summons like they were in 11!"

*makes Demi-Bahamut bigger*

"Demi-Bahamut is too big and blocks things!"

I swear, people.
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I mean, user friendly design isn't an "either or" situation. You have to try to find a solution that satisfies both conditions. Something that feels substantial and powerful, but also doesn't obstruct the user experience.
 
Ragingnight said:
I personally think all 3 healers are in a decent spot right now. Well I take that back, AST needs a nerf on balance. That shit is completely stupid. 1 aoe balance > 2 hyper charge and 1 single target balance > 2 raging strikes.

But beside that all 3 healers are in a good spot. If they nerfed balance then WHM/SCH wouldn't be too far behind AST/WHM or AST/SCH.
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Yup

iammeiam said:
Trying to pitch SCH's strength as needing to know the fight makes no sense; that's true for everyone if they're doing it right
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I say that because one of SCH's heavly used dps tools is tied to their important healing spells. Know exactly how many energy drains to fire off and what exactly you need to save a stack for a mechanic makes or breaks the class. Of course every healer needs to learn the ins and outs but to me SCH is the one walking on the tightrope the most between GOD DAMN AWESOME to WELP WASTE OF A PARTY SLOT purely based on player skill and knowledge to an extreme amount
 
Do I need to do anything before participating in A and S Rank hunts? Already unlocked the Elite Veteran hunt board. Can I just start doing the hunts or do I need to accept them first from a board? The only Clan Hunt I saw was for the Bucaboo. Do I need to kill it first before I get access to more on the boards?
 
Vic_Viper said:
Do I need to do anything before participating in A and S Rank hunts? Already unlocked the Elite Veteran hunt board. Can I just start doing the hunts or do I need to accept them first from a board? The only Clan Hunt I saw was for the Bucaboo. Do I need to kill it first before I get access to more on the boards?
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A/S ranks don't need anything specific other than you being level 70
 
Vic_Viper said:
Do I need to do anything before participating in A and S Rank hunts? Already unlocked the Elite Veteran hunt board. Can I just start doing the hunts or do I need to accept them first from a board? The only Clan Hunt I saw was for the Bucaboo. Do I need to kill it first before I get access to more on the boards?
Click to expand...

A and S ranks give you stuff upon killing them, kinda like a fate with out the little progress marker.
 
QisTopTier said:
AST doesn't do a SCH's job better and if you had a WHM you bring an AST for the card buffs anyways if you wanted to optimize

There is A LOT more going on from the SCH's end of support besides shielding.

They are still by far the best support healer in the game while WHM has too many unneeded healing tools instead of giving party boost options which pushes AST into their spot as AST has just the amount of healing needed to main heal while providing buffs

And DPS outputs matter quite a bit from a healer that's just how end game for this game works.
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I kinda agree especially about them being viable in content and I'm pretty sure that a fair amount of SCH complaining is about them not being OP anymore like they were in HW. But on the other hand I do think fun factor matters a lot (otherwise we would still probably have bard mage) and after making their DPS rotation as boring as the other healers combined with a fair amount of either near useless (dissipation) or clunky (new stuff) skills still around following the ability prune on top of Fairy AI and management still being pretty clunky too I can see why there's gonna be some salt.

I mean AST without Balance being OP would still be pretty fun for me to play. No WHM leveled but since lillies didn't add much to change playstyle I assume most of them feel the same since thin air + holy is Jesus mode or something. On top of that SCH having MP problems so they have to be careful about spamming the new things they got that were nice that aren't tied to Aetherflow (so...Broil 2) can't be all that fun.

If enough SCH feel the same I think the devs will find out sooner or later like with bard mage but I do think it's gonna be a slow process, especially since objectively they aren't in a particularly bad spot. They won't be shunned for raiding or anything like AST was early last expansion or WHM was late last expansion. I think people are forgetting how much an improvement overall balance is from HW. Which is admittedly kind of sad but yea.
 
Dissapation is my favorite SCH dps increasing tool, though that wasn't it's intended use LOL Energy Drain machine gunning will always be enjoyable for me :D


Also SCH doesn't have MP issues. They need to only adlo and succor when absolutely required to, that's always been a thing with the class. Lucid dreaming is super good mp regen. Aetherflow and an energy drain together gives around 4k back and everyone is going to have a bard or machinist in raid settings as well
 
QisTopTier said:
I say that because one of SCH's heavly used dps tools is tied to their important healing spells. Know exactly how many energy drains to fire off and what exactly you need to save a stack for a mechanic makes or breaks the class. Of course every healer needs to learn the ins and outs but to me SCH is the one walking on the tightrope the most between GOD DAMN AWESOME to WELP WASTE OF A PARTY SLOT purely based on player skill and knowledge to an extreme amount
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ED being as flexible as it is is basically built-in recovery, though. Absolute worst case played conservatively, you have an aetherflow stack or two left over when AF is coming off CD and you ED at that time (and thanks to the RNG trait that will occasionally reduce AF cool down when you use an AF stack, this could happen even when perfectly planned out.) You miss out on buff windows, if you could have used it earlier to hit TA or hyper or whatever, but since ED's cool down is sub-one-GCD you don't actually lose a usage of anything or push out AF to get it done. Poor planning isn't a huge DPS loss, and the way the shared resource pool works ultimately means it's less likely to cost you a usage of something than either of the other healers are when they use something late.

Any job played GCD perfect is going to be challenge mode, but with the evolutions to healers over HW and into SB I think ED and Aetherflow's interactions actually make SCH more flexible for unknowns and not a higher knowledge barrier to decent performance.

Microing the fairy is usually the biggest dividing line I see between good and bad SCH play, not the AF stuff.
 
duckroll said:
Why do you think this is so though? Certainly can't say they are inexperienced. They weren't when ARR launched, and even if they were, we're 4 years in and at the second expansion now. They aren't terrible developers either, many of them come from solid teams within the company which worked on big titles. It isn't arrogance either, they are humble and honest about changes and take player feedback very seriously.

What is it then? Are they actually just really, really, really terrible at their own game for some unexplainable reason?!
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They don't want to do the one thing that will help them more than anything.

A TEST SERVER.

Boggles the mind.
 
Wilsongt said:
"Egis are small and ugly. We want our summons like they were in 11!"

*makes Demi-Bahamut bigger*

"Demi-Bahamut is too big and blocks things!"

I swear, people.
Click to expand...

Both games are very different.

In XI you had like 15-20+ persons in endgame at least. With luck one or two were summoners, because the class was useless outside of NMs where not feeding TP was absolutely mandatory. All of those players were spread across huge areas like the Dynamics zones, or Limbus. Even Einherjar areas were big compared to FFXIV battle arenas. And for more cluttered events like Nyzul Isle or Salvage you didn't pick a SMN, period.

Also the whole point of FFXI's combat wasn't dodging visual markers.
 
IMO, the saltiest scholars are the bad ones that have their fairies on follow and in auto 100% of the time. Salty that they can't get away with that as easily.

Edit: been trying to learn summoner for real, is there a point to the pets AoE abilities? It just seems like a waste of time to wait for that cast instead of just letting the pet use their auto attack.
 
Miasma 2 alone is going to make doing dungeons as SCH a lot more tolerable, I think.

I'm excited for the Excog buff too, since right now, in most situations, it's just a barely stronger Lustrate on a longer cd that can't crit and a waste of a stack. Fey Union still feels useless. And I think shields are fine, really.

Very interested to see what they're going to do with Indulgence.

Also, I really, really hope I'm misunderstanding this or it's incomplete:
・Arcana and Royal Road cards can now be discarded via an action.
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If they mean Minor Arcana (Lord/Lady)... just why? Why would I want to discard those??? I just want to discard the Spread!

Edit: ...I'm dumb and I just realized they probably do mean the Spread. Minor Arcana would make absolutely no sense.
It's definitely going to change how you use Sleeve Draw quite a bit.
 
iammeiam said:
Microing the fairy is usually the biggest dividing line I see between good and bad SCH play, not the AF stuff.
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It's a mix of the whole package together and yeah that's another huge part of it.

Proper AF stack usage *max dps while having them when heals are needed*

Learning to trust your co healer and directly healing only when stuff from your kit needed or damage is too high on the whole party/split high dps on party memembers

Managing your fairy as the main healers co healer while you dps otherwise

This is pretty different from how most people view a healer, so while I understand why people feel sch is weak the class isn't and is very strong when all your management of it's tools are down.

If people want a more direct healing job and like the concept of shields I'll always point them in the direction of AST and there is nothing wrong with that to me.
 
QisTopTier said:
Dissapation is my favorite SCH dps increasing tool, though that wasn't it's intended use LOL Energy Drain machine gunning will always be enjoyable for me :D


Also SCH doesn't have MP issues. They need to only adlo and succor when absolutely required to, that's always been a thing with the class. Lucid dreaming is super good mp regen. Aetherflow and an energy drain together gives around 4k back and everyone is going to have a bard or machinist in raid settings as well
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They literally went from 1st to worst on MP stuff. Everything you listed either the co healer gets too or is outclassed. AST a lot of free healing/dps from Minor Arcana + Sleeve Draw throaways and Earthly Star, gets Lucid too, and is going to get better as crit goes up and the passive on Lightspeed gets more and more relevant. Plus if they so wish lining up a Celestial for more MP regen or even using a stray Ewer. And as for WHM...yea. Thin Air, Assize and Lucid together is pretty silly. In a bubble SCH might not seem bad, but you gotta dare to compare here.
 
Pancho said:
IMO, the saltiest scholars are the bad ones that have their fairies on follow and in auto 100% of the time. Salty that they can't get away with that as easily.

Edit: been trying to learn summoner for real, is there a point to the pets AoE abilities? It just seems like a waste of time to wait for that cast instead of just letting the pet use their auto attack.
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No, not at all.

The saltiest Scholars are those of us who found stage-dancing a fun mechanic and weep because they pretty much killed our DPS advantage. Any AST will give much more to the party with the cards now, both are similar in raw DPS output and our 15% crit buff is a joke, as are Excogitation and the Fairy-chain. Want to focus on the tank taking orbs in Susanoo? Too bad, he has to move and your little cute bot can't follow him because she's dumb.

Also Virus guaranteed us a spot. Not anymore.
 
Atolm said:
No, not at all.

The saltiest Scholars are those of us who found stage-dancing a fun mechanic and weep because they pretty much killed our DPS advantage. Any AST will give much more to the party with the cards now, both are similar in raw DPS output and our 15% crit buff is a joke.
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I will gove you that, SCH is boring to play now, (been a SCH main since I started the game)
But you read most complaints and you might think SCH is the most trash job ever.
 
Kenai said:
They literally went from 1st to worst on MP stuff. Everything you listed either the co healer gets too or is outclassed. AST a lot of free healing/dps from Minor Arcana + Sleeve Draw throaways and Earthly Star, gets Lucid too, and is going to get better as crit goes up and the passive on Lightspeed gets more and more relevant. Plus if they so wish lining up a Celestial for more MP regen or even using a stray Ewer. And as for WHM...yea. Thin Air, Assize and Lucid together is pretty silly. In a bubble SCH might not seem bad, but you gotta dare to compare here.
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I main sch, I literally only care about sch. While the other classes might have crazy over the top mp stuff which is silly, SCH doesn't exactly have MP issues at all. It becomes an issue if SCH's are mping out and cant do their expected job, but that isn't happening at the higher levels atm.

To me it boils down to:

Can the class do it's job?

Can it do it's expected job effectively?

What are the issues players are having?

Why are players having said issues?

Is there anything the players can learn to mitigate the issues or does it need a change in the game itself?
 
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