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Final Fantasy XIV: Stormblood |OT| Y'all Need to Calm Down

W

Wagram

Member
I've long since stopped caring about difficulty in XIV. I accepted long ago (especially post Gordias) that this game is designed at a more casual user. That's okay.
 
T

TheOctodad

Member
Finally hit 70 as a WHM last night. Getting close to being done with the MSQ. Looking forward to being part of the cool kids club with GAF.

Signed - Arya Hodor
 
R

Relaxed Muscle

Member
duckroll said:
Yeah okay, I'm never going to beat this until it's unsynced maybe at the end of the next expansion. :p
Click to expand...

You, me and 95% of the userbase lol

Wagram said:
I've long since stopped caring about difficulty in XIV. I accepted long ago (especially post Gordias) that this game is designed at a more casual user. That's okay.
Click to expand...

None of the casual userbase of this game is gonna beat OS4, synched or likely not uven unsynched, probably will be half carried two years down the line at best.
 
Q

Qvoth

Member
of course when i finally got my computer back, my isp is fucking up for some reason with connection to japan ; ;
hope tomorrow's still not too late for v1s fresh practices
 
M

MogCakes

Member
DRG feels marginally better to play than before. The big problems still remain however, namely the now pitiful piercing debuff and eyes dropping off. I am guessing increasing botd to 20s was their way of bandaid patching that, but it isn't nearly enough. I don't know why they refuse to detach eyes from botd. Aside from that I would really just like my 10% piercing back as that was by far the biggest nerf to the job (and all piercing jobs).
 
M

Matt Attack

Member
MogCakes said:
DRG feels marginally better to play than before. The big problems still remain however, namely the now pitiful piercing debuff and eyes dropping off. I am guessing increasing botd to 20s was their way of bandaid patching that, but it isn't nearly enough. I don't know why they refuse to detach eyes from botd. Aside from that I would really just like my 10% piercing back as that was by far the biggest nerf to the job (and all piercing jobs).
Click to expand...

If anything, I'd prefer them to get rid of the piercing debuff altogether and make up for the lost damage with potency buffs. As somebody who has really liked MCH and BRD since 3.x, it does not feel good to know that my damage is reduced by a significant percentage just because I'm not playing with a DRG. Going back to 10% would be really unfortunate.
 
A

aceface

Member
Bebpo said:
The more I think about it, the more I think the weakness change in 4.0 was fucking brutal on casual players and completely at odds with their "more accesible" design attempt. Instead of making a game that's more for everyone, it feels like the weakness change from -10% to -25% actually just created a larger disparity between good/hardcore players and average/casuals players. What I've noticed in PUGs with the Ex fights and O1S (hell even in Omega Normal stages) is that the average/casual players make mistakes more often and die more in a fight only to be revived and the fight to continue, but with -25% DPS or even -50% DPS just turns the fights into unwinnable DPS enrage checks.

Basically casual/average players will die way more than good/hardcore players within a non-wipe run, so a harsher death penalty punishes casual/average players more creating a bigger rift between the two skill levels.

Not really sure why they thought the weakness change was a good idea. I remember my first thought when I saw that was df clears of Odin trial for new players are gonna plummet even further considering how many deaths there are in that fight usually and how often most new player teams were already hitting enrage at -10% penalty.
Click to expand...

I like that weakness does not affect HP anymore- with old weakness, lots of deaths would really gimp your hp, which would snowball into more deaths. New weakness makes it easier to keep the player alive, so they can see and practice the mechanics, which ultimately leads to more clears. That's just my view as a healer though.
 
Trojita

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
MogCakes said:
DRG feels marginally better to play than before. The big problems still remain however, namely the now pitiful piercing debuff and eyes dropping off. I am guessing increasing botd to 20s was their way of bandaid patching that, but it isn't nearly enough. I don't know why they refuse to detach eyes from botd. Aside from that I would really just like my 10% piercing back as that was by far the biggest nerf to the job (and all piercing jobs).
Click to expand...

I didn't get to check last night, but even the potency buff isn't as good as it looks at first look. It only affects, I believe, the 5th hit in the combo.
 
S

skLaFarebear

Member
Spehornoob said:
Finally beat my first extreme primal yesterday! Susano EX down!

Was a blast, but it took a good week of trying to find a capable group in party finder.
Click to expand...

Still haven't gotten mine yet. Spent about three weeks trying to clear seph ex (granted i only joined about 6-7 parties in that span) with no luck but we did make it to enrage a few times.
 
I

iammeiam

Member
Wagram said:
I've long since stopped caring about difficulty in XIV. I accepted long ago (especially post Gordias) that this game is designed at a more casual user. That's okay.
Click to expand...

I'm hoping Super Savage is Gordias/Midas tier, but given the discrepancy between most of Yoshida's claims about difficulty and how things have landed lately I honestly have no idea what to even expect out of it. O3S and O4S look like they will probably be fun. I will continue to have frustration with the tuning of regular Savage content as long as the first half of the tier remains in difficulty free-fall for no apparent reason. O4S had levels of expectations set for it based on what Yoshida himself was running around saying for a while--that they made it harder than A12S--and so I don't think people registering surprise/disappointment that it went down so much faster is out of the blue.

Difficulty discussions are largely frustrating because a large percentage of the discussion always focuses on invalidating people with opinions that aren't positive. Like, "You haven't done it yet so you can't complain!" will, if the person does it, morph into "Well, if you did the thing you're too hardcore and don't count!" There's generally no actual way to call something too easy and not be instantly delegitimized. I'm largely curious where the floor is--at what point would an entry level Savage fight acceptably be considered too easy? Is O1S the floor or would delivering something easier next tier be acceptable as free loot piñata boss? At what point does the high-jump difficulty delta between the second and third fights become an actual problem?

I dunno, on some level I'm just salty that the O4S clear is shifting the difficulty discussion to the back half of the tier, when I feel like what's going on with the first two fights is a bigger issue.

aceface said:
I like that weakness does not affect HP anymore- with old weakness, lots of deaths would really gimp your hp, which would snowball into more deaths. New weakness makes it easier to keep the player alive, so they can see and practice the mechanics, which ultimately leads to more clears. That's just my view as a healer though.
Click to expand...

Weakness not impacting VIT is a really smart change; Brink literally halving damage or healing output is surprisingly brutal, though. It works as long as the content allows it, and preventing failure cascade weakness deaths is A+, but I think it does mean we all need to adjust to taking deaths a little more seriously as the actual rDPS or raid healing takes a larger hit now.
 
S

Stone Ocean

Member
Bebpo said:
The more I think about it, the more I think the weakness change in 4.0 was fucking brutal on casual players and completely at odds with their "more accesible" design attempt. Instead of making a game that's more for everyone, it feels like the weakness change from -10% to -25% actually just created a larger disparity between good/hardcore players and average/casuals players. What I've noticed in PUGs with the Ex fights and O1S (hell even in Omega Normal stages) is that the average/casual players make mistakes more often and die more in a fight only to be revived and the fight to continue, but with -25% DPS or even -50% DPS just turns the fights into unwinnable DPS enrage checks.

Basically casual/average players will die way more than good/hardcore players within a non-wipe run, so a harsher death penalty punishes casual/average players more creating a bigger rift between the two skill levels.

Not really sure why they thought the weakness change was a good idea. I remember my first thought when I saw that was df clears of Odin trial for new players are gonna plummet even further considering how many deaths there are in that fight usually and how often most new player teams were already hitting enrage at -10% penalty.
Click to expand...
Here's the thing: you're not supposed to be clearing with constant deaths. Fights are only salvageable to an extent and old death punishments would fuck you over just as hard.

The big difference is that having more HP lets you see more of the fight. This is crucial to progression as it lets people practice more mechanics. You might have enraged because you lacked DPS but you got to enrage because you had enough HP to survive mechanics instead of exploding halfway through the fight. Now on the next pull you'll be better at the fight and you get to work on perfecting it while having experienced the entire thing and this benefits all players equally.
 
Trojita

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
Wagram said:
I've long since stopped caring about difficulty in XIV. I accepted long ago (especially post Gordias) that this game is designed at a more casual user. That's okay.
Click to expand...

Is there a mmo more difficult to play end game than FFXIV at the moment? There isn't casuals just facerolling OS4.

World of Warcraft had addons that basically told you what to do in the middle of a boss fight.
 
I

iammeiam

Member
Massive Duck said:
Beat O1S in a pug with no drop for me

How exactly does the chest reduction work? No chests if more than half have already beat it that week?
Click to expand...

Page direct inv drop on first clear per week regardless of party comp.

2 chests for all 8 people being loot eligible.

1 chest for 4-7 people being loot eligible.

0 chest if 1-3 people are loot eligible.
 
A

aceface

Member
iammeiam said:
Weakness not impacting VIT is a really smart change; Brink literally halving damage or healing output is surprisingly brutal, though. It works as long as the content allows it, and preventing failure cascade weakness deaths is A+, but I think it does mean we all need to adjust to taking deaths a little more seriously as the actual rDPS or raid healing takes a larger hit now.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah for sure. I've been hitting way more enrages on Stormblood than in previous content, on Susano ex pugs and again last night we hit enrage a few times before clear. It just dawned on me reading this thread that I had forgotten how much of a hit your main stat takes on weakness now. 50% loss on brink of death is crazy but at least you do get to practice the mechanics.
 
M

MogCakes

Member
Savage so far seems about par with the new EX primals in difficulty for the first half. O3S and O4S are looking to be fairly hard for casual groups. I'm thinking super savage will be completely unhinged and on par with the original coil savage tier or harder/more punishing, which will be fun to see.
 
R

Relaxed Muscle

Member
iammeiam said:
I'm hoping Super Savage is Gordias/Midas tier, but given the discrepancy between most of Yoshida's claims about difficulty and how things have landed lately I honestly have no idea what to even expect out of it. O3S and O4S look like they will probably be fun. I will continue to have frustration with the tuning of regular Savage content as long as the first half of the tier remains in difficulty free-fall for no apparent reason. O4S had levels of expectations set for it based on what Yoshida himself was running around saying for a while--that they made it harder than A12S--and so I don't think people registering surprise/disappointment that it went down so much faster is out of the blue.

Difficulty discussions are largely frustrating because a large percentage of the discussion always focuses on invalidating people with opinions that aren't positive. Like, "You haven't done it yet so you can't complain!" will, if the person does it, morph into "Well, if you did the thing you're too hardcore and don't count!" There's generally no actual way to call something too easy and not be instantly delegitimized. I'm largely curious where the floor is--at what point would an entry level Savage fight acceptably be considered too easy? Is O1S the floor or would delivering something easier next tier be acceptable as free loot piñata boss? At what point does the high-jump difficulty delta between the second and third fights become an actual problem?

I dunno, on some level I'm just salty that the O4S clear is shifting the difficulty discussion to the back half of the tier, when I feel like what's going on with the first two fights is a bigger issue.



Weakness not impacting VIT is a really smart change; Brink literally halving damage or healing output is surprisingly brutal, though. It works as long as the content allows it, and preventing failure cascade weakness deaths is A+, but I think it does mean we all need to adjust to taking deaths a little more seriously as the actual rDPS or raid healing takes a larger hit now.
Click to expand...

Personally I don't mind having more options to gear up, if I want to play multiple jobs, gearing them with capped tomes is almost unviable. Giving me a chance to be able to clear first 2 floors on savage let me enjoy more content and also not waiting weeks to gear up another job.
 
M

MechaX

Member
Sorian said:
Nah bro, you heard it right from the last page. He's disappointed. I'm also disappointed at all these people whining when they won't even see the second half of the fight until 4.15 but hey, ggez riot game is trash.
Click to expand...

Personally, unless there's 80% echo or outright removal of mechanics, it probably won't be until 4.5 were people can reach OS4's second phase.
 
A

Astral

Member
I'll be restarting the game either tomorrow or Friday and I'd like some tips. What are some fun classes/jobs? My last character was a WHM and it was pretty fun. I liked being a healer even though it added some stress to dungeons. It also felt awesome queuing up instantly rather than waiting several minutes when I was DPS. I'm not sure what job I would want now. I'm interested in trying out Samurai when I get there though.

Also, are there any comprehensive guides anyone recommends to level up as efficiently as possible? I remember finding some that suggested certain activities and quests from level 1-10, others from 11-15, etc. I'm sure a lot has changed since the last time I played though.
 
S

Stone Ocean

Member
I view v1 and v2 as "training wheel" fights. They are fights tailored to get groups used to coordinated dances that will be needed in v3 and v4 and they accomplish that - our AST who has never raided before went from "wow Savage sounds easy" to "wow we're so fucking bad" in a couple v1 pulls.

WITH THAT SAID, that doesn't mean they are free from criticism on my end because well, isn't that the point of Extreme fights? It seems kinda counterproductive to have different difficulty options only for them to kinda blend together before doing a big jump. v3 and v4 seem just right as difficulty goes - speaking as a midcore raider - but the curve definitely needs to be smoother as opposed to this EX/v1/v2 - v3/v4 chasm we have right now.
 
A

Arkeband

Banned
I'm glad they got to it so fast, my curiosity over whether there was an extra phase was immediately sated since I have a life and won't be getting there myself for a while. EX primals and the first/second wing are about as far as I have time for these days.

Also the animation for it was so very .Hack//Trilogy B-ST form (or whatever source anime that .hack ripped off)
 
S

Severance

Member
Man, I've been watching the new Savage 4.0 on stream and it is top tier difficulty in any MMO. The new Savage Deltascape raid is right where it should be it seems to me. There's an "easy" opening fight and progressive difficulty in each one after. The only way these fights are getting cleared is with 12 hour raiding sessions and pentamelded ilvl 320 crafted gear. Progression raiding is pure time investment and discipline. I was in a progression guild from vanilla WoW through the end of Wrath. Raiding was life, and there was not much else. I don't envy these people. On another note. I do wish Square actually designed endgame raids like their dungeons. Zoning right into a boss fights is straight and to the point, but overall these raids lack that grandiose feel to it. WoW really nails that feeling like you're stepping into an enemy's lair and descending deeper and deeper into madness before facing them.
 
I

iammeiam

Member
Relaxed Muscle said:
Personally I don't mind having more options to gear up, if I want to play multiple jobs, gearing them with capped tomes is almost unviable. Giving me a chance to be able to clear first 2 floors on savage let me enjoy more content and also not waiting weeks to gear up another job.
Click to expand...

A9S and A10S were puggable/PFable from week one, though, which is why I think the discussion is interesting. O1S is quicker and easier to kill, but is there actual measurable gain from that? Would there be further gain from having O5S be even easier? Or are we at a bottom point now?

That's what interests me; I legitimately don't know if we could hit a point where the community en masse would agree that a Savage fight is too easy. And the further we drag the first half of the tier down, the more weight ends up dumped on the last two fights to make it memorable.

I also worry that it's going to create another mini-A3S situation at some point, when smooth sailing through the first two fights turns into a brick wall with a serious third fight that people are stuck on forever. That doesn't help either, and it seems like the easier the first two get the more likely it is the third one's going to be an issue.

Stone Ocean said:
WITH THAT SAID, that doesn't mean they are free from criticism on my end because well, isn't that the point of Extreme fights? It seems kinda counterproductive to have different difficulty options only for them to kinda blend together before doing a big jump. v3 and v4 seem just right as difficulty goes - speaking as a midcore raider - but the curve definitely needs to be smoother as opposed to this EX/v1/v2 - v3/v4 chasm we have right now.
Click to expand...
This is kind of what I'm worried about, but I'll admit I need more time in 3 to get a real feel for it. But there's this massive difficulty gap between seeing the entire fight after two or four pulls and needing to just be less dumb to clear, and then hitting a fight that's just wiping you from 20 seconds in with mechanics fiesta. It's not a good curve, and I don't think it helps anyone long-term.
 
M

Massive Duck. C.M.

Banned
I felt like O1S is really simple from a movement perspective since all the hits are in predetermined, unmoving locations and as long as you work out who's going to stand where, it's no problem but there's always that One Guy in a pug lol
 
A

A Sentient Keyboard

Member
Vitanimus said:
The dyes look a little mismatched...?
Click to expand...

Which parts, the purples or the blacks?

If it's the purples, not much I can do I'm afraid. Dyeing any of those pieces only changes the primary color, not the accents, and neither piece has a shared model with more color options. If it's the blacks, again no luck. The chestpiece cant be dyed, and the stockings get an ugly brown border in any color but the default. I did dye the gloves and boots (specifically chosen for their matching leathery texture with the stockings) to jet black. I also found the one set of daggers with red handles, to match the for-show-only dagger on the back of the chestpiece.
 
M

MogCakes

Member
Severance said:
WoW really nails that feeling like you're stepping into an enemy's lair and descending deeper and deeper into madness before facing them.
Click to expand...
Previous raids in XIV were as you describe here, reaching the boss after a fighting a path through trash enemies or mid-bosses. Omega seems to have been designed as trials because of story reasons. Or vice versa.
 
S

SoundPulse

Banned
I want O12S to just be a fight against a giant superpowered Faust.

Kintaro said:
Sister!
Click to expand...
TheMrPliskin said:
Can I join this party?
Click to expand...

Nice to actually see some Roes, lol.

J_ToSaveTheDay said:
Sure! Was going for Ala Mhigan ancestry and sort of a Wonder Woman/Amazon vibe. Just changed her hair this evening. Probably going to be glamouring Fending Ala Mhigan set for ages, it fits the theme I had in mind perfectly.
Click to expand...

Nice.

I started my Roe a like a week ago, actually, mainly because I had like two days on my sub and wanted to see how far I could get. I do have the Ala Mhigan earrings so I was kind of cheating, but I ended at like level 29 GLD. I had fun relearning how to tank (I hadn't tanked since ARR was new), though, and I don't really have much to do on my main at the moment, so I've decided to stick with her.

I haven't really paid attention to the tank gear at all over the years, so I certainly don't have a glamour in mind yet, lol.
 
S

Stone Ocean

Member
My only complaint about v3 is that we don't get a Savage version of the sliding puzzle. For shame
iammeiam said:
This is kind of what I'm worried about, but I'll admit I need more time in 3 to get a real feel for it. But there's this massive difficulty gap between seeing the entire fight after two or four pulls and needing to just be less dumb to clear, and then hitting a fight that's just wiping you from 20 seconds in with mechanics fiesta. It's not a good curve, and I don't think it helps anyone long-term.
Click to expand...
I guess Menagerie EX will be a good indicator of what we can expect for Betascape or whatever the next tier is called. All I can do is hope they follow through with their promises of making the difficulty curve between tiers better.
 
G

Glendemonium

Member
iammeiam said:
Page direct inv drop on first clear per week regardless of party comp.

2 chests for all 8 people being loot eligible.

1 chest for 4-7 people being loot eligible.

0 chest if 1-3 people are loot eligible.
Click to expand...

So I just need to join a party finder with 8 people who haven't cleared for the best chance at a weekly item.

After you clear it regardless if you get the extra loot or not, you're locked out until reset?
 
S

studyguy

Member
Literally had 0 time last night, we cleared O1 then got O2 down to like 40% before our team had to split to do shit.

My favorite thing was timing it so I could clamp the team in O1 and launch everyone out.
 
S

Stone Ocean

Member
Glendemonium said:
So I just need to join a party finder with 8 people who haven't cleared for the best chance at a weekly item.

After you clear it regardless if you get the extra loot or not, you're locked out until reset?
Click to expand...
Yes. You only get one shot at rolling in a chest, you can reenter the floor as long as at least one person in your party hasn't cleared for the week but you can't try for loot again whether you get one piece or not.
studyguy said:
Literally had 0 time last night, we cleared O1 then got O2 down to like 40% before our team had to split to do shit.

My favorite thing was timing it so I could clamp the team in O1 and launch everyone out.
Click to expand...
You know, there's something cathartic about watching people get launched off the platform like a fucking cannonball
 
T

theechrisfox

Member
hosannainexcelsis said:
While other people blitz through Omega Savage, I'll just sit over here and keep bashing my head against Royal Menagerie in Duty Finder as I attempt to finish the MSQ.
Click to expand...

I was in the Menagerie last night (yay thx duty finder) and it seemed to be tuned up or something since a few weeks ago when I did it new. The group could not do anything against it, and since I was hoping for that 45-second trial without time to do a 45-minute maybe-win trial, I bailed after a few attempts to go and do Deltascape... which also felt tuned up! Maybe they were just consecutive terrible groups, but it was a total bust of a day where I logged off wholly unsatisfied and having improved my character by zero.
 
I

iammeiam

Member
Stone Ocean said:
I guess Menagerie EX will be a good indicator of what we can expect for Betascape or whatever the next tier is called. All I can do is hope they follow through with their promises of making the difficulty curve between tiers better.
Click to expand...

I still would really like them to do something in-depth on raids and difficulty and whatever. That one panel they did was pretty interesting, but also fairly high-level, and it seems like a lot of the time the fight we're doing isn't the fight they expected us to do. So I'm never sure if they, like, meant O2S to be that easy, or if they expected us to struggle more with recognizing Judgment Crystals or Defamation with the icons and names changed.

Glendemonium said:
So I just need to join a party finder with 8 people who haven't cleared for the best chance at a weekly item.

After you clear it regardless if you get the extra loot or not, you're locked out until reset?
Click to expand...

Correct. The game basically flags your character as having completed the floor the second you a.) kill the boss and get your guaranteed page drop, or b.) enter a later floor.

So your best bet is to join a PF explicitly looking for two chests, as that should mean everyone is uncleared. b.) above is important mostly because if you hit a point where you're running the first two fights in PF every week, you have to do them in order. If you step in O2S, the game flags you as O1S completed and not only are you not eligible for a loot drop, you won't get an O1S page that week.
 
Seijuro

Seijuro

Member
Astral said:
I'll be restarting the game either tomorrow or Friday and I'd like some tips. What are some fun classes/jobs? My last character was a WHM and it was pretty fun. I liked being a healer even though it added some stress to dungeons. It also felt awesome queuing up instantly rather than waiting several minutes when I was DPS. I'm not sure what job I would want now. I'm interested in trying out Samurai when I get there though.
Click to expand...

With a healer or tank class you will get faster/ instant queues for dungeons. But every class is viable really. My first lvl 50 was a WHM too and I enjoyed it immensely. If you're on PS4 you can just cycle trough your party list with up/down on the d-pad. I still find healing the most relaxing activity out of the DPS/tank/healing triangle.

Astral said:
Also, are there any comprehensive guides anyone recommends to level up as efficiently as possible? I remember finding some that suggested certain activities and quests from level 1-10, others from 11-15, etc. I'm sure a lot has changed since the last time I played though.
Click to expand...

The main story quest should take you to level 50 without much holdups, but at level 17 (I think, someone correct me) you can unlock Palace of the Dead, a kind of roguelike endless dungeon which atm is the primary means of power leveling classes.
Also you can clear your classes hunting log, that's a good xp boost when starting out.

Edit: also take sidequests with a + icon next to them, they unlock additional content like optional dungeons and other content.
 
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