Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
Get rich quick scheme.
8 tank characters on account on one server.
Each gets clusters + a map every day.
????
Profit
-
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Final Fantasy XIV: Stormblood |OT| Y'all Need to Calm Down
- Thread starter Ken
- Start date
Get rich quick scheme.
8 tank characters on account on one server.
Each gets clusters + a map every day.
????
Profit
Because, if we're honest, it was more fun when world-first races didn't end in days. Obviously there are more practical considerations of raid difficulty but I can see why right now it feels a bit underwhelming.
I've watched them bashing their heads against O4 on the stream and it looked pretty damn hard to me but what do I know?
I was actually thinking about how they could transfer mechanics from Tactics into the 24 man Ivalice raid, and one of the ideas I thought was if someone dies they get the KO counter from Tactics above their head and when it counts down to 0 they can't be rezzed in that fight anymore. Maybe not have it be time based, but instead number of deaths?
Yeah but the only time they don't end in days when there's gear checks that can't be passed without waiting to reset, so all the groups racing just optimize the given fight until weekly reset and if they were hitting enrage clear it within the first hour or two of the weekly reset with their new gear.
The way I saw it was if you can trigger the phase change, you're capable of clearing the fight, since that's a DPS check that needs to be passed in ~4 minutes.
But like... Doesn't that have more to do with the raid teams and the time they're putting in to clear as fast as possible?
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
Each raid party member has to solo Velius by themselves. If even one person dies, the whole fight is lost.
Then you have to fight Maquis Elmdor's assassins.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Maybe they should tune fights so that going in day one at relatively low gearing and completely and repeatedly botching a mechanic kills you instead of does nothing ¯\_(ツ_/¯ (yes, this is 2, not 4, but it's relevant because not having to learn the mechanics in early fights speeds up steamrolling them)
Difficulty is a curve, not a bunch of cliffs with no in-between. Not wanting fights like O2S isn't a call to return to Gordias, and pointing out that the Eurogroup that kills A12S first killed O4S in noticeably less time doesn't super line up with Yoshida's repeated assertions of its difficulty (see also: Zurvan) isn't a call for infinite suffering. 4S also seems to derive a decent chunk of its difficulty from the current low def/mdef/HP levels early clear groups are going at it with, which means by the time most of the rest of us get there the fight is literally going to be easier because we'll be better geared.
I don't get the desire to marginalize any discussion of relative raid difficulty and expressions of concern over the discrepancy between what we were told and what ended up happening.
I mean, this is the dev team that nerfed a ninja skill potency because they didn't expect players to push all their buttons in their opener. Discussion of whether or not they're missing the mark elsewhere isn't out-of-line, and neither side gets to declare victory for a while yet.
Let's face it: first coil, wasn't a dificullty curve I'm willing to go through another time. For me a curve of headbutting yourself in a wall for weeks in each turn, is neither a proper curve.
I like the two tier solution here 1 and 2 for midcores, 3 and 4 for hardcore raiders.
Also, we should define what's easy. Pugeable on first day? On one week? Blind? Not blind? What kind of pugs? or easy is for hardcore raiders with several years of experience? Does their definition of easy counts too?
I mean, I'd like to see in one week what's the percentage of players that completed O1S and O2S (hell add O3S just for giggles). Then we can talk about easy or not
Maps are earn while mining, right? Hope to find some as I continue to level Miner to 70.
Let me get my auto-potion ready and Yell a few times for increased attack and CT.
hosannainexcelsis
Member
I think the people who complain the most in this thread, such as iammeiam, are actually part of that tiny tiny minority and complain primarily because they want content that feels more challenging to them, and thus stays interesting to them longer so they feel like they aren't wasting their subscription money. Of course, I'm sure you can find others who complain even though they can't clear the content themselves, but such is life.
I mean if you were far away from Full Thrust in HW, you blew it on Fang and Claw/Wheeling Thrust anyway. That hasn't really changed. Basically, if Life Surge comes off CD during your Heavy Thrust/Impulse Drive part of your rotation, blow it on either of the two skills, as you put Life Surge on cooldown sooner than you would waiting to use it on Full Thrust. The only time I'd say you could make an argument for waiting is if it's going to line up with your B4B/Dragon Sight? Since then you're getting a guaranteed crit and potentially a direct crit on Full Thrust while your damage is buffed.
Edit: I want to add only blow it on them if you can hit the positional, if you can't hit the positional for whatever reason save it for Full Thrust. I wouldn't recommend blowing True North to hit a Life Surge positional Fang and Claw/Wheeling Thrust either, since there's actually useful times to hit it in fights. It feels so good using True North when you need to run back and forth across the gap in Susano for lightning stun markers.
Ok, so I did some O2S last night in pugs and I am wondering why groups are
over complicating the 2 gravitational manipulation stacks.
Don't need to call anything in voice chat since you can just have unaffected dps stay low and unaffected tanks/heal go high always.
This way you always will have four people in each stack
IE: HHTT/DDDD or DHTT/HDDD as it is always 1 heal and 1 dps being manipulated.
As for the stack+4 marked AoE I will have to try what was sugested on reddit. Saw a video of it during lunch and it makes sense.
Don't need to call anything in voice chat since you can just have unaffected dps stay low and unaffected tanks/heal go high always.
This way you always will have four people in each stack
IE: HHTT/DDDD or DHTT/HDDD as it is always 1 heal and 1 dps being manipulated.
As for the stack+4 marked AoE I will have to try what was sugested on reddit. Saw a video of it during lunch and it makes sense.
That has literally nothing to do with what I've said about O1S and O2S so far. Nothing. It's this extremism that leaks into every discussion of difficulty that makes it important. I've admitted before I'm hyped for Super Savage, but that was never my expectation for Omega. My expectation for Omega was basically Creator, and that's why 1 and 2 are significant to me. 9S and 10S were not a difficulty wall. They could be reliably PUGged the day they dropped. The new fights are substantially easier than the difficulty people already thought was acceptably easy. It worries me to burn through half a raid tier in three hours and then see all discussion boiled down to "Easy is fine" and not, like, "I think this is the lowest it should go." or "X, y, z still seem to make it harder overall so future tiers could still use a step-down." It's mostly wait and see what fights they release and then call those the right difficulty, which is frustrating.
I've been up-front about my hopes for Super Savage. I've been measured in my response to 3 and 4 due to a combination of not having enough time in the former or any in the latter, and anxiety over realizing we're hitting stuff that means I'm going to have to actually know my shit and hit the right healing buttons and we wipe. But I have been openly concerned about the tier as a whole and skeptical that Yoshida hit the tuning with 4S that he was going for.
There's room for discussion and exchange of ideas and actual definitions around things and understanding why people may be concerned about a tier they haven't full cleared yet.
First Coil is a super weird comparison point to go for, since half the struggle there was people being new and confused at the game. That's not what I'm asking for either! But it's not like taking more than a lockout to kill something dooms you to eight months of prog. There's a middle ground. I'll point, again, at 9S. I thought the fight itself was bad, but the difficulty level seemed fine for people. O1S falls far short of even that. It's a thing.
That's basically what we did. Everybody stand on the butt and float or not depending on your role. Nobody ever cares who got what color.
Valonquar
Member
Video from Angered's Omega V4 Savage kill, NIN POV
(there's other viewpoints linked in description)
(there's other viewpoints linked in description)
UtterlyPerplexed
Member
I do enjoy iammeiam's posts. They're less "complaints" in the usual sense and more carefully considered analyses of the raid scene. It's more enlightening to see more measured and rational discussions on how O1S and O2S could have been designed instead to reflect a more organic development in difficulty between these two halves of the raid series. It's understandable that they intend to provide new statics with an initial stepping stone to encourage some tangible progress without them slamming into a concrete wall straight away, on top of the fact that Stormblood brought in more substantial combat reforms than Heavensward, but when there are only four fights a tier, perhaps O1S could have been substantially more than a simple fight to see if you're awake. So yeah, I certainly do welcome critical discussion about these first two fights.
It's the armchair people who uncritically kneejerk based purely on the time it has taken for the world first clears to come in that continue to irritate me.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
I mentioned First Coil, because it was the only time I was invested enough to complete the hardest raid in the game, *at the time. (Well, I completed it one week before Second Coil, but I did it! lol)
* I forgot if they added Savage by the time Second Coil came, but oh well, you get it.
My point of view is more of, I don't really want a difficulty curve, I'm totally fine with Susano Ex level of difficulty, for me that's the sweet spot. I don't really want more.
I guess it kinda sucks that hardcore players did lose levels of Savage more aimed at them, but at the same time you got one of the most cool fights that I probably will never experience in their glory. So it kinda balances out? lol
We did like 16 maps yesterday.
Got in at least 10. The entrance rate is definitely lower now it feels like.
Also I made like... not much money since like 6 of my maps, 4 got in. 3 were lost on the first door, 1 was lost on the second door.
RIP luck.
I DID HOWEVER GET A MOUNTAIN OF CLUSTERS AND VI
Maps throw clusters and materia at you. We made it to the second to the last floor like 3 times.
Got in at least 10. The entrance rate is definitely lower now it feels like.
Also I made like... not much money since like 6 of my maps, 4 got in. 3 were lost on the first door, 1 was lost on the second door.
RIP luck.
I DID HOWEVER GET A MOUNTAIN OF CLUSTERS AND VI
Maps throw clusters and materia at you. We made it to the second to the last floor like 3 times.
I know all this may be true but people (or maybe just me?) want drama and tension in the race. Nobody goes to the races to see something that's over in seconds by people that made it look easy. Maybe I am being a little facetious and I'm definitely not saying it should be tuned harder to please those of us in the peanut gallery. But A4S race was on for ages and that was cool.
I guess that's part of what I don't get though. Seems like people are more invested in watching others struggle through these raids than they are in playing it themselves. Maybe I'm missing something, but is the intention behind content like this that the vast majority of the playerbase (meaning someone like me) isn't expected to ever go through it? Is that why people are so invested in watching other raid groups race to the finish?
It's kind of annoying how much time each map takes for what's basically RNG
These mobs in Aquapolis and Uznair are huge which makes them annoying to tank and AOE and have a ton of HP that you can't overgear because it locks you to 150/310
Prime casul content.
Hey, at least you don't need to walk from room to room in Uznair like you did in Aquapolis.
This is actually a thing I think they more or less keep trying to improve upon in subtle ways. It's highlighted in an earlier mechanics-spoiler comment so same preface here but
O2S has a mechanic that is simply all DPS or all tanks/healer do a thing to handle it; there's RNG in the mechanic but you don't care about the specifics of it, it's simply assign one of the roles to do it. O3S's early tethers and mindjack combination is a moment of "But how do we figure out in time which way to face based off our partner?" when it's really that your partner specifically never matters and it's another tanks/healers and DPS split assignment. Following up O3N's Playing Field / The Game stuff, it's a lot of iterating over and over on the assign a reaction based on role and ignore the other RNG elements to it as they'll handle themselves in the process
If there's one thing they've done consistently with the making fights more accessible, it's this whole removing as much of the on-the-fly reactive decision making. That is, you can temper a lot of the RNG leading into mechanics rather than setting up priorities with caveats and callouts.
Ironically maybe but I find O1S better at the awake check if only for the silliness that is falling the fuck off. They'll both quickly turn into gear overstatting the hell out of the fights but sliding into death will remain forever. I am still disappointed we don't punch an old man in the face before the pull, however.
I was mostly expecting O1S to add Pyretic / Deep Freeze as a "So you did O4N to get here" reminder.
I'm on the side of 'disappointed' at the day 1 clear but more in learning that, no, they did not find some clever way to delay the clear that wasn't outright a gearcheck. So sort of like anticipation and build-up to a "no" I guess? Disappoint is probably a strong word for it.
Also, like 10% of it is that O4S went down literally right before we started raid night which was ever so slightly funny.
Well, it depends? I get it's like all of the super nerdy but I love watching people play games. Like, my background noise is random streams of games be it LoL, Hearthstone, PUBG, speedruns of stuff, whatever. So in some level, it's just nice to watch people playing games. The race is a nice sort of competition to keep track of, though without walls or some level of adversity, a lot of O4S race ended up being "wait for the announcement" rather than "Oh, are they still stuck on that? Is someone past it?"
But it's not out of wanting to keep it at some point where people should be on the sidelines watching it because they can't participate. I firmly think since Creator the raids are low enough barrier of entry that far more people are capable of trying to get in and do the fights. The community being what it is is another thing but people who want to try tackling Savage should really do so. I think a lot of the most rewarding stuff in the game is simply the doing things, seeing what you're capable of doing, and then doing better the next time.
No, dude, relax.
I'm not saying it's too easy and needs to be harder. Enjoying this world-first race is its own little thing that's separate from actually doing that content. So, right now from that perspective it's a bit underwhelming when it's over in a day. Obviously the more important perspective is what it's like for the all players that play it. I'm not disputing that.SliceSabre
Banned
I'm going to pug it because Duty Finder/Raid Finder is my goddess and I know no other.
Got home tonight, opened up the Square Enix Software Token app on my phone, ready to be logging in for some FF14 fun. Got an EULA screen, figured okay, maybe they updated the terms and conditions or something. Pressed accept.
The app is now behaving like it was never registered.
I have some emergency recovery codes saved but none of them work.
Googled it (no-one has any explanation why this issue happens, but I'm not the only person it happens to, so there's that at least), also looked on the FF14 reddit, people saying to use the online chat to get it fixed quickly.
Went to the online chat page, it's closed (closes at 6pm local time).
Thought I might try phoning them. Nope, that's closed too (also closes at 6pm local time).
I've filled in the appropriate contact form on their website and gotten a support ticket number, but I haven't even received an email confirmation confirming that I've got a ticket.
How long does it normally take to get a response from Square Enix EU support? Does their email support close at the same time as their phone and chat support? Is there a support department at Square Enix that is still open at this time in the evening?
The app is now behaving like it was never registered.
I have some emergency recovery codes saved but none of them work.
Googled it (no-one has any explanation why this issue happens, but I'm not the only person it happens to, so there's that at least), also looked on the FF14 reddit, people saying to use the online chat to get it fixed quickly.
Went to the online chat page, it's closed (closes at 6pm local time).
Thought I might try phoning them. Nope, that's closed too (also closes at 6pm local time).
I've filled in the appropriate contact form on their website and gotten a support ticket number, but I haven't even received an email confirmation confirming that I've got a ticket.
How long does it normally take to get a response from Square Enix EU support? Does their email support close at the same time as their phone and chat support? Is there a support department at Square Enix that is still open at this time in the evening?
If you consider how MMORPGs are played I think it's easier to understand why people would be critical or wary of top end content that is quickly cleared out. The genre has demanding time sinks with the promise of late game content that will challenge and impress players. If that end game is not appealing from the outside it becomes very easy to question the time sinks. What is the point of aspiring to do more and more in XIV if the content at the top is fairly thin? If top guilds can clear this quickly it's hard to imagine the average static group spending very long on the content either over the coming weeks/months. The content release is not rapid enough to inspire confidence about that sort of stuff.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
From my experience email support is really slow.
So, as someone who had the same problem recently: You aren't playing this evening. Wait until tomorrow and contact chat support when is open.
Puglife forever and ever.
*high fives*
I mean, at what kind of completition percentage are we looking here? 10%? 15%? Most players will get stuck on O3S and O4S until next raid tier comes out. And there's Super Savage for those 10%.
This is late but...ffuuuucccccckkkkk that battle. Ok, feel better now. had to release some repressed memories..
If that happens and they just hit a hard roadblock just banging their heads against one or two bosses for months that is another huge problem entirely.
The fix is easy and probably why a top guild beat the new content already. You don't cater your content to the <1% of your playerbase that can do this and focus on a challenge the majority is willing to sink time into instead.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
I don't see the problem. Not all content, needs to be at the reach of most players. Most ppl will complete this in 4.5 unsynched and half carried by people who has completed it already. Even so a good chunk will either never care or would never got their kill.
And that's fine.
I think a perspective check is necessary.
When you buy Stormblood you have a huge adventure ahead of you - 150-ish hours set of three games, putting aside the quality of it, then you get all the side content you can do like alt classes, gold saucer, treasure hunting, and then we come to "high-end content" and even there the perspective is massively skewed - these encounters get cleared by people who have been with the game for literally years, some of them day to day, and know it inside out and posses know-how to deal with challenges presented. For a normal player level of coordination required even to clear a raid as chill as Savage Deltascape is a nontrivial undertaking. And even then, right now I'm putting entire evening aside for progression, how many people can do that realistically? And if even after literal days on /playtime you think the game is thin, hey, taking-breaks-is-okay is an actual stance the director has.
Stone Ocean
Member
I get your point but the problem is that what people expect and the reality don't match. Most hardcore groups are taking as long to beat v4 as A12 took and for most raiders in the game that translates into roughly 2 months of progression for content that is meant to last 3 and a half months which is not really unreasonable to me.
There's definitely an argument to be made concerning the difficulty curve of the game overall, but people harping about content that will last for them for as long as they actually want it to last because it didn't last for players that are on a completely different level is kinda silly. 90% of the raiding playerbase will not get anywhere close to beating Deltascape within a month.
Dougieflesh
Member
Does the role action skill Anticipation provide any type of buff for WAR when they use Raw Intuition?
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Awareness is the skill that actually negates Raw Intuition negative effect.
I don't think Anticipation does nothing at all combined.
I don't think Anticipation does nothing at all combined.
SliceSabre
Banned
MCH toughest class confirmed.
It was a long, depressing fall from the 30k wildfire dream to where things are today.
Some machinists have taken extreme measures trying to feel alive again, if only for a moment.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Oh BTW.
My char!
Elezens represent!!
EDIT: Gives us actual beard options for Elezens, YoshiP I want a proper beard, not that excuse you give us now!
My char!
Elezens represent!!
EDIT: Gives us actual beard options for Elezens, YoshiP I want a proper beard, not that excuse you give us now!
Stone Ocean
Member
SliceSabre
Banned
Think I need to bring some Lalafell to this character party when I get home.
I just kinda think in this day and age, a support line for videogames should be open WHEN PEOPLE ARE PLAYING VIDEOGAMES. Such as IN THE EVENING. when it's AFTER WORK.