Relaxed Muscle
Member
I'll just Flash all day on Tank Stance, my job is to tank, not DPS.
And one enemy at a time.
And one enemy at a time.
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Final Fantasy XIV: Stormblood |OT| Y'all Need to Calm Down
- Thread starter Ken
- Start date
Stone Ocean
Member
Not forced =/= not intended. If healers weren't expected to at least try to DPS they wouldn't get new DPS skills. The Stone 4/Malefic 3/Broil 3 and DoT consolidation they're getting aren't intended for those once every two patches quest duties no matter how much lip service Yoshi pays to lazy healers.
RPGCrazied
Member
Anyone buy from Amazon get early access codes yet? Or is that tomorrow?
You need to calm down
I did. Never got an email but they were sent to my messages in the account.
Your Account > Messages > Message Center > Other Messages > "Benefits to purchase order #XXXXX"
Relaxed Muscle
Member
I don't want to die, thanks.
I want to revoke the WHM card of any WHM that doesn't abuse Holy heavily in dungeons now. Even if you don't care about the damage component it's still amazing mitigation!
Yoshi's stance on everything boils down to: don't do it if it makes you feel bad.
It's why we don't have a hall of the intermediate! Telling somebody they're not doing their rotation right could make them feel bad!
Have to make it clear non-DPSing healers shouldn't feel bad! Marry it to doing everything you can think of to encourage healers to DPS, but give team no DPS just enough hope they can claim vindication!
I dunno. just if you are a WHM in a dungeon that does not Holy turn in your job stone immediately :|
Yoshi's stance on everything boils down to: don't do it if it makes you feel bad.
It's why we don't have a hall of the intermediate! Telling somebody they're not doing their rotation right could make them feel bad!
Have to make it clear non-DPSing healers shouldn't feel bad! Marry it to doing everything you can think of to encourage healers to DPS, but give team no DPS just enough hope they can claim vindication!
I dunno. just if you are a WHM in a dungeon that does not Holy turn in your job stone immediately :|
I guess what it boils down to is while threat may eventually become a problem, the expansion isn't even out yet and if it becomes a significant problem the formulas will probably get changed, but the groups that are going to do the earliest clears possible are going to do the ridiculous spreadsheet math to figure out how much enmity they need to generate in each encounter to stay ahead. It's fine if you think I'm wrong iammieiam, because I probably am in the sense of min/maxing things (but I don't really care about that because I'm probably considered a casual raider) but you're ostensibly trading off your enmity generation to max out DPS. Of course you'd eventually run into threat issues. I do think taking Royal Authority off of Savage Blade is stupid, for example.
I also really hate that everyone's pulling the Yoshi saying "healers aren't intended to DPS" when there's other statements from Yoshi talking about this and that's not what he's saying about it at all. He specifically says you will want the healer DPS for those early clears when you're technically undergeared for the content.
From a Famitsu interview translated by Slycer on Bluegartr:
Yoshida: By now, I think a feeling has developed that healers have to participate in DPSing in instanced dungeons. Even if it's just a silent pressure, it is there. Because of that feeling, there were some players who may have felt anxious about joining as a healer. For someone like me who isn't focused about clear time, I'm fine as long as we can clear it. And I'll try to take things more slowly if I see someone who might be new. However, it's been getting more and more difficult for healers, which I'm sorry about. On my personal account, I play all the roles, and I like to have the feeling that I can play through instanced dungeons on my favorite role.
Since things are more serious in raiding, on the other hand, you'll definitely want to DPS for the first clear. As item levels go up and you're after repeat clears, the roles may shift. (laughs)
He isn't saying healers shouldn't DPS, but there shouldn't be an invisible pressure that if a healer isn't DPSing in a dungeon they're wasting everyone's time, and you see the occasional blowup in a dungeon where someone gets irrational that the healer isn't DPSing, which is mainly what he's referring to I believe? Obviously his statement at the end is wrong, since what'll happen in raids as the healers have more opportunity to DPS as the item levels go up.
I also really hate that everyone's pulling the Yoshi saying "healers aren't intended to DPS" when there's other statements from Yoshi talking about this and that's not what he's saying about it at all. He specifically says you will want the healer DPS for those early clears when you're technically undergeared for the content.
From a Famitsu interview translated by Slycer on Bluegartr:
Yoshida: By now, I think a feeling has developed that healers have to participate in DPSing in instanced dungeons. Even if it's just a silent pressure, it is there. Because of that feeling, there were some players who may have felt anxious about joining as a healer. For someone like me who isn't focused about clear time, I'm fine as long as we can clear it. And I'll try to take things more slowly if I see someone who might be new. However, it's been getting more and more difficult for healers, which I'm sorry about. On my personal account, I play all the roles, and I like to have the feeling that I can play through instanced dungeons on my favorite role.
Since things are more serious in raiding, on the other hand, you'll definitely want to DPS for the first clear. As item levels go up and you're after repeat clears, the roles may shift. (laughs)
He isn't saying healers shouldn't DPS, but there shouldn't be an invisible pressure that if a healer isn't DPSing in a dungeon they're wasting everyone's time, and you see the occasional blowup in a dungeon where someone gets irrational that the healer isn't DPSing, which is mainly what he's referring to I believe? Obviously his statement at the end is wrong, since what'll happen in raids as the healers have more opportunity to DPS as the item levels go up.
so what you're saying is to calm down
Stone Ocean
Member
Plus it looks so cool
This just in we have a report of mass deaths from alcohol poisoning.
Don't ask me I'm just quoting what he had said in the past and again very recently. Maybe they do intend for healers to not be doing a whole lot most of the time? Maybe that's why better players started doing dps as a healer and it kinda became this playerbase expected contribution when by design it's not actually needed.
Stone Ocean
Member
It was absolutely needed in Gordias
Relaxed Muscle
Member
I wish that from now on all dungeons would have 3 trash mobs, one trash mob before each boss.
They would auto attack for 20K and would do 40k tank busters every 10 seconds. Burst AoE damage every 5 seconds
They would have 2 million HP points.
Healers get to heal, Tanks gets to tank and DPS get to DPS
Everyone happy.
They would auto attack for 20K and would do 40k tank busters every 10 seconds. Burst AoE damage every 5 seconds
They would have 2 million HP points.
Healers get to heal, Tanks gets to tank and DPS get to DPS
Everyone happy.
The big thing that makes it an issue in XIV, really, is that healers have a lot of free time to get away with DPSing. This combined with pretty potent DPS (albeit pretty stale and boring DPS) makes for a good case of filling blank globals with it, especially when MP has largely been an irrelevant concern. Now, they can make it harder to heal so there's less free time but that's rather unfair to the healers who do struggle to keep up and don't have the same luxury. So we're usually left in this state of things hit 'relatively hard' but infrequently and typically with a lot of excess time to be had.
By and large I operate under the assumption healers should DPS with any free time they have; but it's also taking advantage of spare time rather than "If you don't do X, then we're fucked."
Right but what you're saying isn't what he's getting at? They don't design with it as a required checkmark; it can be used to help reach it (be it because early or because people are slacking or whatever else). They don't intend for healers to sit around and do nothing but they don't design with a specific set of healer damage (or even really healing) since a lot of it ends up being variable; so do what you can but it's not the specific requirement to meet.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
They are saying stuff so the casual players don't get stressed out and feel shunned. He straight up says healers are gonna be dpsing when things are serious
Yup, was 100% Balanced with tanks and healers dpsing as much as posible, if you didn't have tanks that knew the exact hits they could take in dps stance and healers understood how to max dps and heal you were not clearing this tier
Stone Ocean
Member
You're good to go
I guess what it boils down to for me is you waded in with:
It's not about casual vs hardcore, that's just demonstrably untrue in any situation where threat could have been an issue. You then just kind of doubled down? It's awesome if you don't care, but to interject into a discussion about tank threat struggle that tank threat struggle doesn't exist is like piping up in a conversation about whether or not the current rainstorm is going to lead to floods with "It hasn't rained in weeks!"
u wot
Dougieflesh
Member
I'm on Balmung, I would die.
So he is lying to the playerbase then? So newer healers who do feel nervous about dps and don't dps will think oh yoshi said it isn't really needed so that by the time it is needed they have no idea how the hell to manage it while also keeping everyone alive and keeping status cured. Smart plan, what could possibly go wrong. Btw this isn't a personal thing, I stopped playing whm a long time ago and only recently returned to the game on a new character playing WAR (which apparently is getting shafted, great).
8 or so
Stone Ocean
Member
Welcome to learning anything in this game, where we teach you nothing but expect you to know shit anyways
RPGCrazied
Member
Thanks man! Didn't know it would show up there, got it all redeemed now.
Also keep in mind my complaints are about what the mechanics encourage you to do. Not what players are necessarily doing. In casual content I don't care if my healer does 0 DPS if they're keeping everyone alive. But the low amounts of damage clearly encourage healer DPS to fill empty globals.
Ditto. I got that message 2 days after I pre-ordered a physical copy from them. They list the steps to redeem it in the message. After you redeem Amazon's promotional code at https://redeem.finalfantasyxiv.com/na, you'll then get another code, this time a PSN code, to redeem on the Playstation Store on your PS4.
Once all that happens, when you log into FFXIV through its launcher, you'll see a confirmation message that will link early access HW to your main account. You can then log onto Mogstation to verify if you want.
Stone Ocean
Member
Accurate representation of players reading the final patch notes
Sigh. MMOs would be so much better if it wasn't for humanity being involved.
Yeah, I guess I shouldn't have lead like that, and I apologize. It's just like, I feel the raiders that are trying to min/max DPS as much as possible know the downsides to it and as a result are going to min/max their group composition and as you said always take Ninja for the enmity management it allows.
It's more that if you feel comfortable DPSing, go for it, and now there's no longer as big a consequence if you fuck up because you can't throw out emergency heals in Cleric Stance and they do nothing.
It was just a couple nights ago I got a Vault with a 60 healer in all HQ 250 crafted gear who refused to use AOE heals and was healing people when they were full on HP. This is even worse than a healer that lets people die because they were in Cleric Stance, because they didn't even understand the basics of their class.
Yeah someone mentioned that to me before, no fucking clue.
Literally had my codes in there for a full month after preordering because Amazon never told me they were in.
I point at this exchange a lot:
He doesn't want to make people feel bad by implying they should do their rotations.
Like, dude is super paranoid about hurting people's feelings, to the point it negatively impacts decision making.
E_Darkness
Member
No luck with Amazon UK ;-;
I have no idea what I'm gonna do. Urgh my Amazon order is £10 cheaper than Stormblood on PSN, but I'd very much rather play tomorrow for certain.
Jesus that's a bit extreme. My buddy tried the free trail recently and it's his first ever MMO experience. He really got a lot out of the hall of novice stuff. He said it helped him a lot. Why not do higher end training stuff.
SynthFetish
Member
It's because abbreviation is such a long word :/
Extreme but needed. If people knew how to play their class, everyone would be calm! Add a hall of expert too so we can bloodfight in the streets about min maxing!
E_Darkness
Member
I'm sure the healers would love to be told they need to dps /s
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
It's not as common as you think sadly
Yeah and the tanks and dps can all just press 123 and call it a day
People ultimately hate being told they're "bad" especially if they feel it comes off passive aggressive. I feel an immense sense of joy when people thank me for giving them advice, but 9/10 times they never respond or respond back negatively. Like I posted that story about The Vault healer who never used AOE heals and was healing people when they were full and I stuck behind and typed out a few things like "Hey ____, you're a WHM and you have good AOE heals like Medica, Medica II and Assize that you never used and instead single healed AOE damage, also you healed people who were at full HP and didn't need healing" and they read it and thought about it as they stood around for a bit and then left without saying a word. I wanted them to read it and engage in a dialogue because someone much less kind than I am will probably flip the fuck out on them if they keep playing like that.