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[Gojeran]

People ultimately hate being told they're "bad" especially if they feel it comes off passive aggressive. I feel an immense sense of joy when people thank me for giving them advice, but 9/10 times they never respond or respond back negatively.

I think it depends on how you tell people. "Hey have you tried xyz instead of whatever you are currently doing."

Vs

"Fucking noob you suck st this game kill yourself or git gud. You should be doing this lololololoolollo why can't you play your job right".

Only mild hyperbole. People are dickheads on the internet and MMOs are not an exception.

 

[mre]

I want to revoke the WHM card of any WHM that doesn't abuse Holy heavily in dungeons now. Even if you don't care about the damage component it's still amazing mitigation!


I dunno. just if you are a WHM in a dungeon that does not Holy turn in your job stone immediately :|

What changes did they make? Removal of stance dancing or has the mined data shown something else?

 

[Teknoman]

Its going to feel good to be back. Its been so damn long that i've gotten a new house, new PC, among other things.

Hopefully I didnt get dropkicked out of the GAF FC, but I know its probably been long enough to have been dropped to make space.

 

[Sorian]

I think it depends on how you tell people. "Hey have you tried xyz instead of whatever you are currently doing."

Vs

"Fucking noob you suck st this game kill yourself or git gud. You should be doing this lololololoolollo why can't you play your job right".

Only mild hyperbole. People are dickheads on the internet and MMOs are not an exception.

Except the real comment is always halfway between these two a majority of the time but people stuck in their ways will always respond negatively regardless.

 

[duckroll]

Jesus that's a bit extreme. My buddy tried the free trail recently and it's his first ever MMO experience. He really got a lot out of the hall of novice stuff. He said it helped him a lot. Why not do higher end training stuff.

I feel this has the reverse impact YoshiP thinks it has. For example, I know I'm not great at optimizing my dps because my rotation could be better. But I'm not sure how much I can improve right now because the ingame tools discourage that sort of information. It's actually more frustrating!

 

[scy]

Yeah, I guess I shouldn't have lead like that, and I apologize. It's just like, I feel the raiders that are trying to min/max DPS as much as possible know the downsides to it and as a result are going to min/max their group composition and as you said always take Ninja for the enmity management it allows.

It mostly amounts to "Do we have to have a NIN? Is it MT/OT Shirk rotations? I'll say the latter is actually a really cool approach to it but I think we're facing needing better than 25% but we'll see on that. It also helps promote like ... actually sharing the tank role and rotating cooldowns, but then I look at PLD's whole gifting cooldowns thing and wonder.

If the solution is ultimately just "tank stance more" then I'm really sad they didn't enforce it through the kits; if anything, they tried their best to make the divide between the two worse.

Add a hall of expert too so we can bloodfight in the streets about min maxing!

I'm probably one of the bigger promoters of min-maxing things (let me tell you about timings and spreadsheets) but I'm generally okay with a sense of people trying their best and having some level of care over performance. I'd just like for people to know some of the ins and outs of the why their job works a certain way and not settling at "I push the buttons I want to and it works."

 

[iammeiam]

What changes did they make? Removal of stance dancing or has the mined data shown something else?

The removal of stance dancing meaning it's now damage even if you're healbombing at the same time + it being one of the very few spammable AOEs not to get some kind of nerf. Holy doesn't hit harder, but it's better than ever because they didn't make it worse.

It's largely that Holy is an amazing backdoor entry to healer DPS, because even if you primarily use it to stun lock a pull, you'll now end up putting forth some substantial damage. Plus, since stunned mobs do literally no damage, they might not feel too worried about dropping an Aero 3.

Holy is the gateway drug to healer DPS.

 

[mre]

The removal of stance dancing meaning it's now damage even if you're healbombing at the same time + it being one of the very few spammable AOEs not to get some kind of nerf. Holy doesn't hit harder, but it's better than ever because they didn't make it worse.

It's largely that Holy is an amazing backdoor entry to healer DPS, because even if you primarily use it to stun lock a pull, you'll now end up putting forth some substantial damage. Plus, since stunned mobs do literally no damage, they might not feel too worried about dropping an Aero 3.

Holy is the gateway drug to healer DPS.

oh, I know and love Holy. I just didn't know if it was buffed in some manner besides the removal of stance dancing.

 

[kaze343]

What??

more skill speed=more auto attacks= more ninki

 

[Squishy3]

I'm probably one of the bigger promoters of min-maxing things (let me tell you about timings and spreadsheets) but I'm generally okay with a sense of people trying their best and having some level of care over performance. I'd just like for people to know some of the ins and outs of the why their job works a certain way and not settling at "I push the buttons I want to and it works."

A lot of people are content with "learning" the rotation and then not figuring out how to adapt that rotation around fights or the same example can be made of people learning fights but not learning how/why the fight works that way. Zurvan EX is a good example where people didn't really take the time to "learn" soar, it very quickly became "first soar is skippable, tank LB3 the second."

Learning Thordan EX and Nidhogg EX were probably some of my favorite moments in Heavensward (like when we realized the meteor phase in Thordan EX was much easier than we thought it was because we initially thought you had to dodge the meteors dropping on people and move around DPSing the different meteors as you dodged) and finally watching everyone get down dodging Hot Tail and the bomb orbs.

I'm really looking forward to learning Susano and Lakshmi EX.

 

[Aeana]

Except the real comment is always halfway between these two a majority of the time but people stuck in their ways will always respond negatively regardless.

Or sometimes the people who think they are doing a Service to the Community don't realize that they come off sounding like an asshole.

 

[dabig2]

No luck with Amazon UK ;-;

I have no idea what I'm gonna do. Urgh my Amazon order is £10 cheaper than Stormblood on PSN, but I'd very much rather play tomorrow for certain.

When did you pre-order? If it's been 48 hours already, contact their customer support as soon as you can. Do a chat as it's quicker and they should give you the code once you confirm the order with them.

 

[QisTopTier]

Or sometimes the people who think they are doing a Service to the Community don't realize that they come off sounding like an asshole.

It goes both ways, some people are stubborn and feel like what they do is good or good enough and don't want to do anything else so they get pissy for "being told how to play" then there are the try hards who a majority of the time are not that great themselves being obnoxious as fuck about what the other person is doing wrong

 

[Isaccard]

TFW Your boss texts you to tell you you have an interview for a position you applied for months ago is tomorrow (on your scheduled day off) during early access.

 

[kaze343]

someone took the time to do a full break down and sorting of all the skills here.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...GSeem1uqKPpY/htmlview?sle=true#gid=1484790592

 

[DrForester]

I'm logging out in Old Gridana to (presumably) pop the new Summoner quest from Y'Stola's sister.

http://i.imgur.com/Ay2nMSw.gif

If it goes like HW, the first quest is a quick one to start the quest line. Some quick exp.

 

[Aeana]

It goes both ways, some people are stubborn and feel like what they do is good or good enough and don't want to do anything else so they get pissy for "being told how to play" then there are the try hards who a majority of the time are not that great themselves being obnoxious as fuck about what the other person is doing wrong

If someone is being stubborn, becoming a jerk yourself will not help matters at all, though. I believe in being nice and respectful to people, and if they won't play ball, then I don't have to play with them. There's really no reason for hostility.

 

[QisTopTier]

someone took the time to do a full break down and sorting of all the skills here.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...GSeem1uqKPpY/htmlview?sle=true#gid=1484790592

LOL I wish Selene had her old stuff back with the new stuff

If someone is being stubborn, becoming a jerk yourself will not help matters at all, though. I believe in being nice and respectful to people, and if they won't play ball, then I don't have to play with them. There's really no reason for hostility.

I agree, I'll typically say my bit and bail unless someone engages back and wants to discuss things and learn

 

[v1perz53]

I feel this has the reverse impact YoshiP thinks it has. For example, I know I'm not great at optimizing my dps because my rotation could be better. But I'm not sure how much I can improve right now because the ingame tools discourage that sort of information. It's actually more frustrating!

Yea I really hate the "no parsing allowed" mentality YoshiP and the devs have with FF XIV. They seem to be so worried about people using those tools to tell players they are bad or kick them or something, but in reality I don't think it would be even 1% of the issue they seem to be convinced it would be. And the good that would come of being able to actually examine your own damage and parses would far outweigh the occasional negativity (which to be fair would certainly happen sometimes, but FAR less frequently than the devs would lead you to believe).

I've played WoW since the day it released and from almost day one they've had damage meters and log parsers and I honestly can't even remember a time where people raged at people in a random queued dungeon or raid for not doing enough DPS on the meters. It just really doesn't happen in queued content. As long as people do mechanics correctly and you are succeeding at the fights, everyone tends to shut up, there's too much variability between gear and stats and whatnot to even know what DPS someone SHOULD be doing.

But conversely, it is super frustrating to try to improve in this game because it is so hard to see what you are doing, and to see how changing things or doing things differently affects your damage because there are no simple and effective parsers. And if you are failing at DPS checks, it is frustrating to have no way to see who might need to look into pushing a little harder or have a way of seeing what you might want to change to eek out more damage. Sure there are ways, but they are needlessly complicated.

A cynical part of me thinks they also don't want parsers to be more "allowed" since it would give PC players an advantage over console players who can't use those tools.

E: Changed some wording, I know there ARE parsers, but they are in a grey area and not technically "allowed" so to casual players they might as well not exist

 

[Armaros]

Geeze they moved a lot of SMN damage to Demi-bahamut. His auto spell is basically ruin 3 and akh morn is 680 potency. And there is time to get two of them per summon.

 

[Sorian]

If someone is being stubborn, becoming a jerk yourself will not help matters at all, though. I believe in being nice and respectful to people, and if they won't play ball, then I don't have to play with them. There's really no reason for hostility.

I do have to play with strangers though. I agree with the rest of this and I'm not detracting from the nice and respectful point but I also usually can't cross my arms and say fuck this without a penalty on my part.

 

[scy]

A lot of people are content with "learning" the rotation and then not figuring out how to adapt that rotation around fights or the same example can be made of people learning fights but not learning how/why the fight works that way. Zurvan EX is a good example where people didn't really take the time to "learn" soar, it very quickly became "first soar is skippable, tank LB3 the second."

I'm torn on the Soar thing since I find both sides to basically be right; it's an easy mechanic to do so you should have a pretty basic understanding of what to do when you see it. It's also set to the rDPS of 2/2/4 setup that can clear their individual SSS dummies with no time to spare will be able to just barely skip it. So it exists in that area of I expect people to get a handle on how the mechanic works but it's also pretty okay to expect to just not even see it in the first place. The tank LB I'm a fan of if only because it removes it as ever being a possible failure; yes, it's still easy to do but if you can remove it from being a factor at all with no real cost, it's hard to argue against it.

pls look forward to skip Soar for Susan

Or sometimes the people who think they are doing a Service to the Community don't realize that they come off sounding like an asshole.

I largely expect to come across as an asshole. Not a defense or an excuse to be one by any means, just that I expect it so I try to read through what I say repeatedly and try and reword and explain as much of it away so it doesn't come across like that.

Spoiler

And fail and still be an asshole

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

I largely expect to come across as an asshole. Not a defense or an excuse to be one by any means, just that I expect it so I try to read through what I say repeatedly and try and reword and explain as much of it away so it doesn't come across like that.

Spoiler

And fail and still be an asshole

Tone is a tricky and sometimes impossible thing to read in a text-only medium. We have enough trouble trying to read each other's intentions when face-to-face; take away all the aural and visual elements of that kind of interaction and it becomes exponentially more difficult. That's why I try to follow up immediately if I sense that my tone is being misread, to try to ward off any unnecessary misunderstandings.

 

[iammeiam]

I do have to play with strangers though. I agree with the rest of this and I'm not detracting from the nice and respectful point but I also usually can't cross my arms and say fuck this without a penalty on my part.

I just want to point out again that interviews aside Yoshida runs a game where the actual recommended solution to the healer DPS problem is whichever side has group majority kicking out the person who disagrees.

I do my own end-run around the issue, but the actual solution the game wants people to take is kicking each other out so it's no wonder people on both sides are raw. Both sides get to simultaneously be right and wrong, as long as the game doesn't have to commit to a stance either way.

 

[IvorB]

I literally just asked and they told me to wait. Unless they expect me to do this in my sleep it is bullshit.

Is Amazon UK the only retailer having this problem in the UK (or even Europe)? I'm just curious to why this shit is happening.

Yeah it's completely crazy. I tried to explain this to them on the phone but they just didn't get it. It's an internal Amazon thing not SE. I placed an order with Square directly and got the code straight away.

 

[RPGCrazied]

After redeeming early access, now it wants to me to download 3.5 gigs. lol

 

[mre]

After redeeming early access, now it wants to me to download 3.5 gigs. lol

You thought the expansion wouldn't have to be downloaded?

 

[RPGCrazied]

You thought the expansion wouldn't have to be downloaded?

I thought I did it earlier this morning.

 

[LaneDS]

PLD or DRK? Can't decide!

Seems like PLD will be more fun, finally, but DRK seems more involved.

 

[Snapshot King]

PLD or DRK? Can't decide!

Seems like PLD will be more fun, finally, but DRK seems more involved.

I'm having the same dilemma, specially with Paladin getting all those shiny new toys.

 

[JoeyJungle]

Yo is that golden saucer event still running? How long does it take to get the haircut?

 

[Rewind]

PLD or DRK? Can't decide!

Seems like PLD will be more fun, finally, but DRK seems more involved.

I think pld is gonna be the most interesting tank.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

Yo is that golden saucer event still running? How long does it take to get the haircut?

Nope, you missed it. Sorry.

 

[Anoregon]

I thought I did it earlier this morning.

FFXIV doesn't download expansion content unless you actually have the expansion on your account. It's different from other games that push the xpac data to everyone and just have it locked if you don't buy it.

 

[LaneDS]

I'm having the same dilemma, specially with Paladin getting all those shiny new toys.

Finally a spammable AoE attack!

I think pld is gonna be the most interesting tank.

One vote for PLD!

 

[JoeyJungle]

Nope, you missed it. Sorry.

Thanks

 

[B.K.]

I thought I did it earlier this morning.

I think people on the Ffxiv Reddit said it was a staggered release through the day. You may have just gotten part of the update.

 

[Vic_Viper]

I'm having the same dilemma, specially with Paladin getting all those shiny new toys.

As someone thats played both, Id go for PLD first and then try out DRK and see how you like it. DRK is really different than anything else im used to and took a looooong time to get a hang of. Its a fun class but PLD always felt more rewarding and alot easier to manage.

 

[mre]

I thought I did it earlier this morning.

Ahh, okay. That makes more sense.

 

[Kyzer]

TFW Your boss texts you to tell you you have an interview for a position you applied for months ago is tomorrow (on your scheduled day off) during early access.

Godspeed

 

[BLCKATK]

I play all three tanks a lot, during ARR and HW I spent most of my hours on WAR, but I've said PLD was my "main" for sometime. It's a class I really enjoy despite it's simplicity. It fits my fantasy, and it allows me to focus on callouts and direction while still executing the fight and the role. I'm really excited they finally adding depth to the class.

If you enjoyed the job before, I see no reason why you wouldn't enjoy it even more now.

DRK seems like a lot of fun too imo. I know they are losing some heavy hitters and the math isn't adding up, but I really want to see what the playstyle really ends up feeling like. I feel the same about WAR. I was never really a fan of the DRK playstyle, I want to know if it feels more satisfying to use for me, and I want to see if they made WAR even more satisfying to play.

 

[BlackJace]

Wait, if I buy SB tomorrow, like first thing in the morning, do I miss out on EA?

 

[E_Darkness]

When did you pre-order? If it's been 48 hours already, contact their customer support as soon as you can. Do a chat as it's quicker and they should give you the code once you confirm the order with them.

February. Every time I've talked to them they say "within 24 hours of early access". So basically they're giving non-answers.

 

[Apoptomon]

Hmmm, I'm still a bit wary of SB Summoner, but I really the only thing to do is see how it is live... And I'm still considering melee DPS - DRG is the only one I have at 60 right now and I'm tempted to make it my main for SB...

In the meantime here's an unsolicited Even More Scenery From My Screenshots Folder (ARR Edition) to pad out this thread out even further during the downtime):

 

[InfiniDragon]

I think pld is gonna be the most interesting tank.

After the changes, PLD is absolutely a more dynamic tank job than DRK.

Dark Knight is honestly in pretty rough shape based on the datamined stuff, and it makes me sad.

 

[Foxxsoxx]

TFW Your boss texts you to tell you you have an interview for a position you applied for months ago is tomorrow (on your scheduled day off) during early access.

YAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaa.....yyyyy.....

 

[Snapshot King]

After the changes, PLD is absolutely a more dynamic tank job than DRK.

Dark Knight is honestly in pretty rough shape based on the datamined stuff, and it makes me sad.

Same. Rocked a Warrior all through ARR, and a DRK all through HW, so at least I'll be getting what is essentially a new class to me with my Pally.

 

[Ken]

The Blackest Night will save DRK! You'll see!

 

[GhostEther]

So I'm pretty new to the game and I want to make a Dark Knight in the long run as a main job. Are they viable to tank? How long does it take to reach max level? Any guides I should look for?

 

[Zomba13]

The Blackest Night will save DRK! You'll see!

DRK is ruined and irrelevant but that has the side effect of activating the DRK's main ability of "Angst" meaning DRK is the true winner of the expansion because every DRK cna bitch and moan and whine and bout shit and be in character.