• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Final Fantasy XV |OT| There and back again.

Status
Not open for further replies.
FFXV's combat annihilates Witcher 3's. How is that even debatable?

While not all that flashy I did tend to be able to do what I wanted 99% of the time in TW3. Stuff like the Q
uetzacotl
and A
ranea
fights are a complete mess. The combat in FFXV is lacking in the same way as TW3 except it's prettier
 

Gbraga

Member
Maybe I'm wrong but IMO it's cause the game has like 0 animation cancelling so if you're in an attack animation while you want to evade you're gonna eat that shit no matter what. I too have problems with this.

It does have animation cancelling if you have Blink. Even Greatsword attacks can be canceled into a dodge/block at any time, but you need to press it at the last moment.

Not necessary, as I have finished the game without needing to learn how to play, apparently.

The hallmark of great combat. /s

I don't agree with his remark, but you can absolutely finish the games with the most deep combat systems around without learning how to play. In fact, that's the norm. A first playthrough is completely meaningless in something like DMC.

Unless you also think DMC combat is trash, I don't think this is a particularly good point to make against any combat system.
 

Slixshot

Banned
I feel like this should be in the OP but what is the order for kingsglaive then the game? I'm not going to watch the web series. Someone said play a bit of the game then watch kingsglaive then play the rest?

I am going to second this. I'm chillin doing bounties in chapter 1. Should I watch it now or at the end of a particular chapter?
 

Pygrus

Member
While not all that flashy I did tend to be able to do what I wanted 99% of the time in TW3. Stuff like the Q
uetzacotl
and A
ranea
are a complete mess. The combat in FFXV is lacking in the same way as TW3 except it's prettier


I didn't find either of those fights difficult in terms of attacking and dodging. The only bosses that I would say are an utter mess are
Levi and Adamantoise
 

GunBR

Member
The ones complaining about the combat are using the type A controls?
Because my opinion about the game changed completely after I start using type C
 

Harmen

Member
Witcher 3's combat was so bad, it made me laugh. You guys have got to be kidding me. I quit the game 20h in because I couldn't stomach the movement and combat any longer despite liking most of the things the game did.

FFXV's combat despite its flaws is my main drive to boot up the game every day. Fights are fun as hell and the controls are super tight. The movement ain't floaty and your slashes feel like they carry heavy weight.

I really enjoy TW3's combat. And the bossfights in both major DLC's were a blast as well. That game did not get critical and userbase acclaim by having "laughably bad" combat. There are issues, I agree, but it is not like XV is free from that.

That said, I think the combat of FF XV is a tad more enjoyable when it works, but there are many occasions (in particular in closed, linear sections) where the combat is far from ideal and the camera is absolutely awful.
 
Camera indeed is bad. Objects like trees that are between the camera and you should be made transparent. That would solve most problems fighting in the wilderness.

btw. I need to know if Britons truly pronounce "recipe" like "recipeeeeeeeh".
 

JBwB

Member
So I'm level 50 and I still haven't reached Altissia yet haha.

Loving the game, would currently place it next to both Overwatch and B&W as my games / DLC of the year. I highly doubt the supposed wonky latter chapters will affect this.

Also where are these combat comparisons with W3 coming from? Even though it's my GOAT I can see that the combat is nowhere near as fun as FFXV's is.
 

Gbraga

Member
Oh, btw, after testing Let it Die and not liking it, I went to delete it and FFXV was deleted as well. Downloaded again during the night and was able to test it and confirm that my save is still there (didn't load it yet, though).

So I guess be careful when deleting Let it Die?
 
I didn't find either of those fights difficult in terms of attacking and dodging. The only bosses that I would say are an utter mess are
Levi and Adamantoise

I mean neither were hard but the camera was completely flipping out on both occasions and there always seems to be little damage coming in that you don't have much control over. For something framed as an action game there really should be a way to go completely unscathed if you play well
 
FFXV's reception is divisive enough, don't you think? Most people enjoy the gameplay just way more than in DA:I I think.

DA:I was pretty well received at first but after the honeymoon phase and certainly after it won GotY, people really latched on the lazy secondary quest design. It really got put on blast for putting "MMO quests" into a single player game.
 

MilkBeard

Member
Oh, btw, after testing Let it Die and not liking it, I went to delete it and FFXV was deleted as well. Downloaded again during the night and was able to test it and confirm that my save is still there (didn't load it yet, though).

So I guess be careful when deleting Let it Die?

Let it Die wants to take other games out with it
lol
 

Loomba

Member
Just got to the Chocobos, think I'm about 6-7 hours in.

Enjoying it so far just disappointed in the amount of fetch quests.
 
I feel like I'm playing a completely different game when I hear about the camera complaints. Have had 0 issues, other than foliage blocking my view occasionally which I mentioned yesterday. But that's not really a problem with the camera and is a minor inconvenience at worst.
 

Gbraga

Member
I mean neither were hard but the camera was completely flipping out on both occasions and there always seems to be little damage coming in that you don't have much control over. For something framed as an action game there really should be a way to go completely unscathed if you play well

There probably is a way if you try enough times, but they just didn't care about balancing the game around it. It's also an RPG, and one of the most useful skills is the one that heals you, and you can unlock Impervious, that allows you to negate the damage you just received by pressing Block after getting hit. I don't think there's an issue with taking damage being expected, even if I also tend to prefer when they're balanced around not taking damage (in other words, Souls is perfect, but FFXV ain't bad).

Nioh's director actually has a similar mentality:

Eurogamer: I've read that when From Software designs their bosses they make sure the best member of their testing team can conquer a boss unscathed. That's how they decide it's fair. How does Team Ninja test the difficulty for Nioh?

Yasuda: I've read a similar thing. I think that's a perfectly sound and justified way of setting the standard. We have a few different approaches in our game testing as well. One that I can definitely tell you is that we'll basically fight a boss unarmoured. And if the tester can beat the boss, then it's fair. And with some of the toughest stages, if somebody can beat it, then it's beatable. Because it's meant to be tough.
 

Pygrus

Member
I mean neither were hard but the camera was completely flipping out on both occasions and there always seems to be little damage coming in that you don't have much control over. For something framed as an action game there really should be a way to go completely unscathed if you play well

I didn't have camera issues on those fights.

I also don't think the combat is twitch action, where you can dodge everything. There's going to be things that just going to be some unavoidable damage, unless you are playing super safe, which usually means longer fights.
 

HotHamBoy

Member
Better Main Quest: TW3 (because so much of FFXV's is wtf???)
Better Main Cast: FFXV
Better Female Cast: TW3
Better Sidequests: TW3
Better Writing: TW3
Better Mini Game: Gwent
Better World: TW3
Better Music: TW3 (but that is debatable, both are very good)
Better Artistic Direction: TW3 (due to cohesion and consistency)
Better Character Movement: FFXV
Better Menu Design: FFXV, sort of
Better Fashion: Ignis
Better Hair: The White Wolf
Better Otaku Pandering: FFXV
Better Awkward Sex Pandering: TW3

Edit: Better Gameplay: TW3 (how could I forget that?)

I feel like TW3 was a game aimed more for adults and FFXV was aimed more for teens. That's totally fine, that's how FF has always been. But as a 31 year old I find TW3 to be a much more compelling game.
 
Better Main Quest: TW3 (because so much of FFXV's is wtf???)
Better Main Cast: FFXV
Better Female Cast: TW3
Better Sidequests: TW3
Better Writing: TW3
Better Mini Game: Gwent
Better World: TW3
Better Music: TW3 (but that is debatable, both are very good)
Better Artistic Direction: TW3 (due to cohesion and consistency)
Better Character Movement: FFXV
Better Menu Design: FFXV, sort of
Better Fashion: Ignis
Better Hair: The White Wolf
Better Otaku Pandering: FFXV
Better Awkward Sex Pandering: TW3

I feel like TW3 was a game aimed more for adults and FFXV was aimed more for teens. That's totally fine, that's how FF has always been. But as a 31 year old I find TW3 to be a much more compelling game.

Glad you left better gameplay out lol
 

Pygrus

Member
Better Main Quest: TW3 (because so much of FFXV's is wtf???)
Better Main Cast: FFXV
Better Female Cast: TW3
Better Sidequests: TW3
Better Writing: TW3
Better Mini Game: Gwent
Better World: TW3
Better Music: TW3 (but that is debatable, both are very good)
Better Artistic Direction: TW3 (due to cohesion and consistency)
Better Character Movement: FFXV
Better Menu Design: FFXV, sort of
Better Fashion: Ignis
Better Otaku Pandering: FFXV
Better Awkward Sex Pandering: TW3

I feel like TW3 was a game aimed more for adults and FFXV was aimed more for teens. That's totally fine, that's how FF has always been. But as a 31 year old I find TW3 to be a much more compelling game.

The fact that world navigation and combat are less or a chore in FFXV, I would say it places a bit ahead in the gameplay department with the TW3.

I'll take a chocobo over Roach every time.
 

Gbraga

Member
I feel like I'm playing a completely different game when I hear about the camera complaints. Have had 0 issues, other than foliage blocking my view occasionally which I mentioned yesterday. But that's not really a problem with the camera and is a minor inconvenience at worst.

Which camera setting are you using? I've been using the close one since I started because of another benzy's recommendation, and when I tried to use normal for a while just to test it, damn, it was rough.

It definitely made it much easier to see enemies around me, and harder to get hit by offscreen stuff, but the camera got so far that, even though I could see the enemies, it was actually much harder to react to their attacks.

Close isn't ideal, but the next option goes way too far when there are multiple enemies on screen.
 

Skulldead

Member
Chapter 8, 30 hour level 44.... i don't who the hell balance that game (Play tester, programmer, designer, whatever...), but they should be fire. This is one of the most unbalance game i played since a long time ! Every thing feel wrong, and out of the place. Quest give way too much XP, ratio enemies level / Xp reward doesn't work.. at all. I can kill a 5 centipede in 1 shot i get like 800 XP. But i have a freaking Big Spider with 3 giant Tarentula that stop me, 2 shot me, also get shock to death it cost like 10 000 Gil worst of stuff to beat, use magic and everything, they have double the level of centipede, here 1200 xp, hope you enjoy ? This is a joke right ? Imp give like 6 xp each ? they are even harder then a centipede !

I've heard everything was much more balance in 1.01, can i go back to that patch ?

At first i did't complain about the story because way i thought it was far from bad as everyone said, but since chapter 6, yeah this is really bad.....the start of chapter 8 take the cake... they have the coolest dungeon ever, with tomb at the end... and they are not even able to put them to make sense in the story...
 

Akhe

Member
Holy shit (kinda sfw I think): http://i.imgur.com/dbCdBqE.png
And this one...
giphy-downsized-large.gif
 
Which camera setting are you using? I've been using the close one since I started because of another benzy's recommendation, and when I tried to use normal for a while just to test it, damn, it was rough.

It definitely made it much easier to see enemies around me, and harder to get hit by offscreen stuff, but the camera got so far that, even though I could see the enemies, it was actually much harder to react to their attacks.

Close isn't ideal, but the next option goes way too far when there are multiple enemies on screen.

I'm using middle, with camera auto-correct on and tracking speed at 3. Pretty sure those are just the defaults.
 
I knew I was forgetting something!

Better Gameplay: TW3

I'll give movement to FFXV and combat to TW3.

Sorry, y'all.

smh

Anyway, can we talk about chapter 8 because it went for like 5 minutes and I had no idea why I had to do any of that stuff.
Why did the facility get invaded by daemons? What was the point of that chapter in terms of narrative? Where was Gladio in ch. 7? Does that get answered in the coming chapters? Also, why did Alteaneaeaea (sp) turn nice all of a sudden when she hostile just a chapter or two ago?

The story telling in this game blows my mind. It wouldn't even pass for a B movie. Any 70s Italo trash zombie flick has a more coherent story than this.
 
I'm dangerously close to having 40 hours, on chapter 10, and lvl 50 . I've not been this hooked on a FF game like this since FF7, 8 and 9 in my teenage days.
 

rataven

Member
Man, does anyone know if you can remove Prompto's filters to shots he's already taken? He finally took a great group pic but it had some blue filter on it and it looks baaaad. Level 5 photography skill my butt.
 
There probably is a way if you try enough times, but they just didn't care about balancing the game around it. It's also an RPG, and one of the most useful skills is the one that heals you, and you can unlock Impervious, that allows you to negate the damage you just received by pressing Block after getting hit. I don't think there's an issue with taking damage being expected, even if I also tend to prefer when they're balanced around not taking damage (in other words, Souls is perfect, but FFXV ain't bad).

Nioh's director actually has a similar mentality:

I've been meaning to buy those dodge skills but I've stubbornly been saving up to for the big magic ones. Might just go for it

Interesting to see that stance with Nioh. I'd imagine that towards the end of the game going unarmoured against a boss is going to leave very little room for error. Might be talking about 2HKO or something of that nature. With that approach it might still be possible to go untouched although it doesn't seem likely they're going out of their way to make sure it's possible.

Disappointed I didn't finish the alpha for that baller mask
 

HotHamBoy

Member
Was anyone else disappointed that Shiva's summon animation wasn't a gigantic nearly nude woman instead of a bunch of normal-sized nearly nude women? The concept of mothers in far away outposts shielding their children's eyes form the humongous ice-bosoms is an amusing one.
 
smh

Anyway, can we talk about chapter 8 because it went for like 5 minutes and I had no idea why I had to do any of that stuff.
Why did the facility get invaded by daemons? What was the point of that chapter in terms of narrative? Where was Gladio in ch. 7? Does that get answered in the coming chapters? Also, why did Alteaneaeaea (sp) turn nice all of a sudden when she hostile just a chapter or two ago?

The story telling in this game blows my mind. It wouldn't even pass for a B movie. Any 70s Italo trash zombie flick has a more coherent story than this.

Chapter 8 spoilers and Gladio spoilers:
They were trying to repair the ship, so they got some mythril in Chapter 7, but raw mythril won't work, so they go to Holly, the engineer at the power plant, who knows how to refine it. The deamons invading is supposed to show that they're becoming more bold (entering the city; also the nights are coming quicker and lasting longer). Gladio's disappearance is not explained.
Yes, the story is trash.

Edit: Oh Aranea spoilers:
She's a mercenary and has misgivings about the empire.
 

Gbraga

Member
Hey, that's fun, I'll do it, too!

Better Main Quest: Can't comment on either yet, as I'm far from done with them

Better Main Cast: FFXV

Better Female Cast: TW3

Better Sidequests: FFXV, actually. Now let me explain myself on this, since this is most likely controversial. What I care about the most when it comes to sidequests is the core gameplay loop and the actual quest design. When it comes to the quest design itself, I don't think either is good for the most part. Witcher III has amazing context developed through dialogue and just general writing for its quests, but the mechanical part is no different from FFXV's fetch quests. In fact, I'd say it's worse due to over reliance on witcher sense. At least to catch the dumb frogs in FFXV I have to listen to their sound and follow it, instead of pressing my detective button and follow the red line.

The core gameplay loop is just more enjoyable to me in FFXV, since I prefer its combat as well as its exploration, and I'd consider the optional dungeons, hunts and etc side content as well, and one that can't be ignored. There's nothing like finding an optional dungeon with nice, connected level design and a good challenge in Witcher 3. The caves there just exist for lore purposes, those beasts need somewhere to hide, but there's no fun to be had in exploring them.

A game that did quest design better than both was Skyrim, to be honest. The way you start the Dark Brotherhood questline is amazing, and more than just someone telling you a sad story while the wind blows indoors, or someone telling you to pick up some random shit because reasons. To me, what you're actually doing in the quest is the quest design, not just the context established through writing.

Better Writing: TW3

Better Mini Game: Can't decide on Gwent or Fishing. Probably Gwent.

Better World: FFXV. The world in The Witcher is better realized, for sure, but I tend to prefer the more fantastical terrains and enemies of Eos. Also really enjoy the backdrop of the Starscourge. I also really enjoy the way FFXV handles open world. With meaningful content like well designed dungeons here and there instead of a bunch of stuff to do in the overworld itself but with little to actually find through exploration.

Better Music: FFXV, but as you said, they're both REALLY good. I tend to prefer the occasional overworld music playing over it being constant, though, so when Wanderlust plays, I'm super excited to hear it again, instead of tired of listening to it for hours and hours.

Better Artistic Direction: FFXV (animeeee)

Better Character Movement: FFXV, but this is a weird category. Do things like warping and shit count or are we just talking about basic movement? Because if they do, then it's not really fair to compare.

Better Menu Design: Neither is super remarkable, imo. I enjoy the UI of both, but the menus are "ok". The menu music in FFXV is sick, though, so I'll go with that. FFXV.

Better Fashion: Prompto. Would be Noctis if his casual clothes weren't shit. Would be Geralt if we had more casual clothes with useless stats just to use in Novigrad when walking around. I'm the kind of idiot who unequips their armor when swimming.

Better Hair: The White Wolf. Ok, I'll have to stay with you, just because of the customization options. The amount of times I went back to the city just to get a haircut or beard change... hahaha. Noctis' hair is fantastic, though. I prefer it to any of the hairstyles Geralt can have, but alone it can't match changing it for whatever stupid reason you have.

Better Otaku Pandering: FFXV. Y A O I B O I Z

Better Awkward Sex Pandering: TW3. I mean, it's the only one with sex. I think?
 

leng jai

Member
The more I play the more I'm comfortable with calling this game garbage. There are so many fundamentally terrible aspects of the game it's mind boggling when you consider the developer and pedigree of the franchise. How did it get 9s? How are people saying this is their GOTY? How? I really don't get it.
 
I like the story so far (ch13) but there are so many things that I already know they won't be explained, so I totally can see why someone would hate the story.
Chapter 13 spoiler
Why so long? It wasn't even that bad if it was, who knows, 40 minutes shorter. Why??
 

Freeman76

Member
Chapter 14 and im really losing it now, overall an amazing game but enough is enough, i actually cant wait to finish this story and play the end game open world stuff again.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom